Who's the 2nd greatest power forward of all time?

[Chanel Bomber]

The greatest PF of all time is "small-ball" LeBron James.

Duncan is the 2nd greatest, followed by Giannis and Dirk in whichever order.

And yet....you still have Duncan - the definition of a center. But Lebron? I mean ok...lebron is more a 4 than Duncan.

Duncan played most of his minutes at PF in the first part of his career, before transitioning full time to center. Overall, he's a hybrid (4/5), just like LeBron was (3/4).

In the minutes they played at PF (including early career Duncan), I have LeBron, Duncan then Giannis/Dirk.

You're right that overall he played more minutes as a center, but I'm judging PFs for their time as PFs there.

[DimesandKnicks]

Dirk is really overrated on Realgm. He isn’t better than Barkley or Malone

Nah, if anything it’s the other way around going from the top 100 project.

He did QB an elite offence for over a decade. He has more seasons of engine than KD. He’s less susceptible than Barkley/Malone and more trustworthy as a true one scoring option than Garnett.

You’re just plain wrong here.

Wtf does less susceptible mean? Malone and Barkley are as good offensively, more efficient, and better passers. Dirk is sub 50 percent from the field, sub 10 rebounds, sub 3 assist. Malone probably had 10 seasons better than Dirks best season.

You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s pretty arrogant to tell someone they’re wrong. Especially when the other players are objectively statistically better.

[Franco]

If you're under 45, you shouldn't be allowed to vote in these polls that compare players from multiple eras. McHale is the only answer. His combination of offensive moves, smothering defense, distribution and rebounding are undeniable for those of us old enough to have watched him play.

Guys like McHale and the great James Worthy never get the respect they deserve. They were the best PFs in the 80's and they would be the best today IMO.

Your opinion is incredibly wild to say James Worthy would be better than Giannis

[cupcakesnake]

I'm a little surprised to see Barkley and Giannis lagging so far behind Dirk and Malone. I see that quartet as being really tough to parse.

[Blame Rasho]

Dirk is really overrated on Realgm. He isn’t better than Barkley or Malone

Nah, if anything it’s the other way around going from the top 100 project.

He did QB an elite offence for over a decade. He has more seasons of engine than KD. He’s less susceptible than Barkley/Malone and more trustworthy as a true one scoring option than Garnett.

You’re just plain wrong here.

Wtf does less susceptible mean? Malone and Barkley are as good offensively, more efficient, and better passers. Dirk is sub 50 percent from the field, sub 10 rebounds, sub 3 assist. Malone probably had 10 seasons better than Dirks best season.

You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s pretty arrogant to tell someone they’re wrong. Especially when the other players are objectively statistically better.

You wanna know something wild? Stats aren’t the end all be all. Karl Anthony Towns had a better statistical season than Tim Duncan’s mvp season. Draymond Green made more 3 point field goals in the post season than Dirk. Everyone needs to put context in what and why they say what they say.

[DimesandKnicks]

Nah, if anything it’s the other way around going from the top 100 project.

He did QB an elite offence for over a decade. He has more seasons of engine than KD. He’s less susceptible than Barkley/Malone and more trustworthy as a true one scoring option than Garnett.

You’re just plain wrong here.

Wtf does less susceptible mean? Malone and Barkley are as good offensively, more efficient, and better passers. Dirk is sub 50 percent from the field, sub 10 rebounds, sub 3 assist. Malone probably had 10 seasons better than Dirks best season.

You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s pretty arrogant to tell someone they’re wrong. Especially when the other players are objectively statistically better.

You wanna know something wild? Stats aren’t the end all be all. Karl Anthony Towns had a better statistical season than Tim Duncan’s mvp season. Draymond Green made more 3 point field goals in the post season than Dirk. Everyone needs to put context in what and why they say what they say.

I never said there were, and no he didn’t. I also added the context that Malone and Barkley were better rebounders, passers, arguable better scorers and more efficient.

[TheShow2021]

According to BPM/ VORP, for the regular season, it's clearly KG. But Giannis has had the 2nd best start to his career after KG, even better than Duncan in this regard.

But all the top contenders for best PF ever: Duncan, KG, Giannis, Malone, Dirk, Barkley all had similar averages and totals as it pertains to BPM/VORP. They all belong in the same tier. It's remarkable how little the difference is from KG (the best) to Dirk ( the worst of the 6). There was a big drop off from those guys to McHale, however.

[LakerLegend]

Duncan's a fraud power forward. He only played that position because the Spurs already had Robinson.

He's a center through and through.

[LakerLegend]

I'm a little surprised to see Barkley and Giannis lagging so far behind Dirk and Malone. I see that quartet as being really tough to parse.

Dirk is ridiculously overrated on this board.

[Snotbubbles]

For me, toss up between Giannis and Garnett.

[NZB2323]

Dirk is really overrated on Realgm. He isn’t better than Barkley or Malone

Nah, if anything it’s the other way around going from the top 100 project.

He did QB an elite offence for over a decade. He has more seasons of engine than KD. He’s less susceptible than Barkley/Malone and more trustworthy as a true one scoring option than Garnett.

You’re just plain wrong here.

Wtf does less susceptible mean? Malone and Barkley are as good offensively, more efficient, and better passers. Dirk is sub 50 percent from the field, sub 10 rebounds, sub 3 assist. Malone probably had 10 seasons better than Dirks best season.

You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s pretty arrogant to tell someone they’re wrong. Especially when the other players are objectively statistically better.

Regular season TS%:

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 57.7%
Barkley: 61.2%

Playoff TS%

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 52.6%
Barkley: 58.4%

Dirk was more efficient than Malone in the playoffs, and more clutch.

Barkley was more efficient, but he wasn’t the teammate or professional that Dirk was. Barkley fueded with coaches and teammates, would be hungover during practice, wasn’t in great shape most years, and didn’t have Dirk’s longevity.

Also, as a floor spacer Dirk is better than either of them. Dirk would have fit it better with Drexler/Hakeem or Pippen/Hakeem than Barkley, and was better at age 33.

If you’re really playing these guys at power forward with a traditional center you’d want a power forward who can shoot from the outside.

Dirk is 6th all time in total points. Barkley is 34th.

In any case I think Giannis will pass them all.

[LakerLegend]

Nah, if anything it’s the other way around going from the top 100 project.

He did QB an elite offence for over a decade. He has more seasons of engine than KD. He’s less susceptible than Barkley/Malone and more trustworthy as a true one scoring option than Garnett.

You’re just plain wrong here.

Wtf does less susceptible mean? Malone and Barkley are as good offensively, more efficient, and better passers. Dirk is sub 50 percent from the field, sub 10 rebounds, sub 3 assist. Malone probably had 10 seasons better than Dirks best season.

You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s pretty arrogant to tell someone they’re wrong. Especially when the other players are objectively statistically better.

Regular season TS%:

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 57.7%
Barkley: 61.2%

Playoff TS%

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 52.6%
Barkley: 58.4%

Dirk was more efficient than Malone in the playoffs, and more clutch.

Barkley was more efficient, but he wasn’t the teammate or professional that Dirk was. Barkley fueded with coaches and teammates, would be hungover during practice, wasn’t in great shape most years, and didn’t have Dirk’s longevity.

Also, as a floor spacer Dirk is better than either of them. Dirk would have fit it better with Drexler/Hakeem or Pippen/Hakeem than Barkley, and was better at age 33.

If you’re really playing these guys at power forward with a traditional center you’d want a power forward who can shoot from the outside.

Dirk is 6th all time in total points. Barkley is 34th.

In any case I think Giannis will pass them all.

All you're talking about is scoring.

Dirk was an elite shooter and overall very good scorer and wasn't great at anything else.

Dirk was a 2nd tier star for most of his career who benefitted from having loaded teams via Cuban's open checkbook. Look at 2006 and 2007

This board is just full of young people think he his 2011 was a 94 or 95 Hakeem. It wasn't, not remotely close. He was just the best cog in a very well-built machine.

[DCasey91]

Dirk is really overrated on Realgm. He isn’t better than Barkley or Malone

Nah, if anything it’s the other way around going from the top 100 project.

He did QB an elite offence for over a decade. He has more seasons of engine than KD. He’s less susceptible than Barkley/Malone and more trustworthy as a true one scoring option than Garnett.

You’re just plain wrong here.

Wtf does less susceptible mean? Malone and Barkley are as good offensively, more efficient, and better passers. Dirk is sub 50 percent from the field, sub 10 rebounds, sub 3 assist. Malone probably had 10 seasons better than Dirks best season.

You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s pretty arrogant to tell someone they’re wrong. Especially when the other players are objectively statistically better.

Check their playoff resiliency. I’m not high on their archetype, whereas with Dirk you get pure offensive results. Incredibly low turnover economy, more direct in the system. Barkley I find to be caught in between because he was a fantastic rebounder but unders defensively

I think from memory Dirk was 28ppg per 75 on 60ts% in his prime which along with big rebounding numbers I just think he’s more applicable in totality.

I don’t think you want to bring up efficiency stakes when you count where they shoot from, the FT disparity and the building mechanisms for any team.

Playoffs count for a lot. Modern ball will only further the comparison imho.

[DCasey91]

Nah, if anything it’s the other way around going from the top 100 project.

He did QB an elite offence for over a decade. He has more seasons of engine than KD. He’s less susceptible than Barkley/Malone and more trustworthy as a true one scoring option than Garnett.

You’re just plain wrong here.

Wtf does less susceptible mean? Malone and Barkley are as good offensively, more efficient, and better passers. Dirk is sub 50 percent from the field, sub 10 rebounds, sub 3 assist. Malone probably had 10 seasons better than Dirks best season.

You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s pretty arrogant to tell someone they’re wrong. Especially when the other players are objectively statistically better.

Regular season TS%:

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 57.7%
Barkley: 61.2%

Playoff TS%

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 52.6%
Barkley: 58.4%

Dirk was more efficient than Malone in the playoffs, and more clutch.

Barkley was more efficient, but he wasn’t the teammate or professional that Dirk was. Barkley fueded with coaches and teammates, would be hungover during practice, wasn’t in great shape most years, and didn’t have Dirk’s longevity.

Also, as a floor spacer Dirk is better than either of them. Dirk would have fit it better with Drexler/Hakeem or Pippen/Hakeem than Barkley, and was better at age 33.

If you’re really playing these guys at power forward with a traditional center you’d want a power forward who can shoot from the outside.

Dirk is 6th all time in total points. Barkley is 34th.

In any case I think Giannis will pass them all.

Exactly people just look at raw numbers and don’t take into consideration what is what.

If you count where they shoot from, the FT% disparity, and the application I like Dirk over anyone here. Combined with a hugely low turnover economy plus they were all great rebounders.

If I was to pick it would be Pettit relative to era sake but Dirk overall if starting a team tomorrow.

[DimesandKnicks]

Wtf does less susceptible mean? Malone and Barkley are as good offensively, more efficient, and better passers. Dirk is sub 50 percent from the field, sub 10 rebounds, sub 3 assist. Malone probably had 10 seasons better than Dirks best season.

You’re entitled to your opinion but it’s pretty arrogant to tell someone they’re wrong. Especially when the other players are objectively statistically better.

Regular season TS%:

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 57.7%
Barkley: 61.2%

Playoff TS%

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 52.6%
Barkley: 58.4%

Dirk was more efficient than Malone in the playoffs, and more clutch.

Barkley was more efficient, but he wasn’t the teammate or professional that Dirk was. Barkley fueded with coaches and teammates, would be hungover during practice, wasn’t in great shape most years, and didn’t have Dirk’s longevity.

Also, as a floor spacer Dirk is better than either of them. Dirk would have fit it better with Drexler/Hakeem or Pippen/Hakeem than Barkley, and was better at age 33.

If you’re really playing these guys at power forward with a traditional center you’d want a power forward who can shoot from the outside.

Dirk is 6th all time in total points. Barkley is 34th.

In any case I think Giannis will pass them all.

Exactly people just look at raw numbers and don’t take into consideration what is what.

If you count where they shoot from, the FT% disparity, and the application I like Dirk over anyone here. Combined with a hugely low turnover economy plus they were all great rebounders.

If I was to pick it would be Pettit relative to era sake but Dirk overall if starting a team tomorrow.

So he’s a hair more efficient. The other two are still better rebounders and passers. Arguable better defenders. Have you ever watched Dirk play? He wasn’t at all a great rebounder. Excellent score but the rest of his game leaves too much to be desired to be consider the SECOND BEST POWER FOWARD in NBA history. C’mon man.

[DCasey91]

Considering where he shoots from, he has fantastic rebounding numbers, wtf are you talking about?

With Barkley/Malone I find your robbing Peter to play Paul.

Now Giannis/Lebron is different because of the bludgeon style approach. Both are better defenders and Lebron is an ATG playmaker. And both did struggle throughout their career

Garnett- For laments terms I’m not comfortable with anything less than Pierce or in this case Tatum/George. His greatest weakness to me was his overall shot selection. Someone already did an offensive analysis in late time. In actuality his passing results are greatly overblown. In comprising sake Dirk gave better results with better looks. Remember Wolves were never otherworldly defensively.

Malone/Barkley - What does the offensive system actually look like?

KD - When you monopolise the ball like with Giannis how much can you actually give them to operate ball handling/playmaking duties?. Giannis most successful enterprise was when he played closer to the basket against a small team and exploited mismatches.

All I’m saying with things being relative I find Dirk to have an easier spread of counterparts/fits and it’s not even a question today as far as I’m concerned.

Holistically I prefer him over anyone listed here.

[tsherkin]

If you're under 45, you shouldn't be allowed to vote in these polls that compare players from multiple eras. McHale is the only answer. His combination of offensive moves, smothering defense, distribution and rebounding are undeniable for those of us old enough to have watched him play.

Well that's... limited and ageist. I watched plenty of Worthy and McHale and I'm not quite 45 yet and I violently disagree with you. Both were good, especially McHale, but man are you not appreciating context for those guys at all... or showing any kind of appreciation for non-nostalgic players.

Guys like McHale and the great James Worthy never get the respect they deserve. They were the best PFs in the 80's and they would be the best today IMO.

They would not be the best today. Far too limited as players to really approach that rating. And definitely not better than Malone, Garnett or Dirk.

McHale was an amazing finisher, for sure. And had shocking ability to stay in front of athletic 3s for his height. Angles, wingspan, he was a very good player. Wouldn't be the best today, though. Certainly not better than Giannis. Somewhat underappreciated because he played a lot off the bench and people like volume numbers, but there was a reason Boston didn't run volume possessions to him until Bird was out. Worthy wasn't even close to the offensive player of McHale, so he's a write-off immediately. Not an awesome rebounder, not a playmaker. Solid defender. Great transition player, solid post player. Decent middie. Definitely worse than Giannis.

[NZB2323]

Regular season TS%:

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 57.7%
Barkley: 61.2%

Playoff TS%

Dirk: 57.7%
Malone: 52.6%
Barkley: 58.4%

Dirk was more efficient than Malone in the playoffs, and more clutch.

Barkley was more efficient, but he wasn’t the teammate or professional that Dirk was. Barkley fueded with coaches and teammates, would be hungover during practice, wasn’t in great shape most years, and didn’t have Dirk’s longevity.

Also, as a floor spacer Dirk is better than either of them. Dirk would have fit it better with Drexler/Hakeem or Pippen/Hakeem than Barkley, and was better at age 33.

If you’re really playing these guys at power forward with a traditional center you’d want a power forward who can shoot from the outside.

Dirk is 6th all time in total points. Barkley is 34th.

In any case I think Giannis will pass them all.

Exactly people just look at raw numbers and don’t take into consideration what is what.

If you count where they shoot from, the FT% disparity, and the application I like Dirk over anyone here. Combined with a hugely low turnover economy plus they were all great rebounders.

If I was to pick it would be Pettit relative to era sake but Dirk overall if starting a team tomorrow.

So he’s a hair more efficient. The other two are still better rebounders and passers. Arguable better defenders. Have you ever watched Dirk play? He wasn’t at all a great rebounder. Excellent score but the rest of his game leaves too much to be desired to be consider the SECOND BEST POWER FOWARD in NBA history. C’mon man.

5% is not a hair. That’s the difference between:

A 50% shooter and 45%

A 40% 3point shooter and a 35%

A 90% free throw shooter and 85%.

When these guys are scorers first, being efficient matters more than if one of them averaged 1 more assist a game.

And you can’t ignore the clutch factor. Dirk made game winning shots in the playoffs. Stockton took the game winners for the Jazz.

Karl Malone is like power forward James Harden. He won MVP, put up numbers, came close to winning it all, but mainly came up short in the playoffs.

[Ben AN]

I'd go with Dirk for now, but him and Malone are interchangeable. Assuming the Bucks win this season, like I think they will, then I'd go with Giannis. If the Lakers win, might go with AD.

[Rust_Cohle]

Tim Duncan is the second-greatest power forward of all time. Larry Bird is the greatest.

Larry was a small forward