Best offensive and defensive player at the same time?

[MyUniBroDavis]

1974 Kareem is my only pick for that, although I would entertain a postseason specific argument for 1995 Hakeem. I think it is too tall an ask for a perimetre player to qualify as the absolute best defender, even with a postseason specific lens. 2016 Lebron comes closest in the sense I think you could conceivably argue he was second to Draymond in the postseason, but top outright, no, and that is specifically in a postseason with weaker competition among defensive bigs. It is a little more conceivable for bigs to go on such a valuable scoring streak that they qualify, but even then, 1974 Kareem has the benefit of playing in a league with declined offensive play from usual mainstays Oscar and West, and 1995 playoff Hakeem is still competing with Reggie, Penny, Shaq, KJ…

I would probably argue 2016 Draymond is at least debatable with any big 2010s onwards, but yeah I get what U mean

[OhayoKD]

2012 Lebron is in the argument I think and 2013 Lebron.

Did lead the league in both OBPM and DBPM and did win MVP. He was certainly up there offensively and defensively had the best DBPM of all the DPOY candidates in 2012.

In 2013 he finished 2nd to Marc Gasol in DPOY (who himself did not make the first team all defense) and was the best offensive player. This was also when the internal tracking data in the NBA showed he was probably the best defender at mimicing perfect defensive help (the Raptors Ghosts model in the Zach Lowe article).

I think maxed out effort Lebron in a sense was the best in those years and was probably pretty close to clear cut offensive best. His defensive impact would max out a crazy level but he obviously saved energy for offense. But him doing stuff like Game 6 and 7 of the NBA Finals in 2013 (guarding Tony Parker/ Manu, switching everywhere and blocking Duncan and then being the best offensive player) I felt he was the best O/D player in the league.

I don't think lebron's case vs Gasol in 2013 is very good. Gasol had better impact numbers on a better defense and arguably had better impact even in 2019 in the backend of his prime.

[rk2023]

Mikan, 1974 Kareem (albeit due to Wilt’s retirement)

Don’t really see a case for Hakeem, MJ, Bron (maybe 09 in the latter, but that’s more or less a de-facto due to Garnett being injury). Wilt in 67 and Garnett in 04 maybe, but I wouldn’t go there myself.

As it comes to Wemby, I’m very much rooting for his success and want nothing but the best ITO development.. but I can’t see him being the best player in the league on each respective side. No knack, the air is just that rarified.

[OhayoKD]

Mikan, 1974 Kareem (albeit due to Wilt’s retirement)

Don’t really see a case for Hakeem, MJ, Bron ([b]maybe 09 in the latter[/b], but that’s more or less a de-facto due to Garnett being injury). Wilt in 67 and Garnett in 04 maybe, but I wouldn’t go there myself.

As it comes to Wemby, I’m very much rooting for his success and want nothing but the best ITO development.. but I can’t see him being the best player in the league on each respective side. No knack, the air is just that rarified.

Dwight disagrees

[FuShengTHEGreat]

1970-71 Kareem

[rk2023]

Mikan, 1974 Kareem (albeit due to Wilt’s retirement)

Don’t really see a case for Hakeem, MJ, Bron ([b]maybe 09 in the latter[/b], but that’s more or less a de-facto due to Garnett being injury). Wilt in 67 and Garnett in 04 maybe, but I wouldn’t go there myself.

As it comes to Wemby, I’m very much rooting for his success and want nothing but the best ITO development.. but I can’t see him being the best player in the league on each respective side. No knack, the air is just that rarified.

Dwight disagrees

D-RAPM/PIPM/Net-swing goes brrr

[uberhikari]

Mikan, 1974 Kareem (albeit due to Wilt’s retirement)

Don’t really see a case for Hakeem, MJ, Bron ([b]maybe 09 in the latter[/b], but that’s more or less a de-facto due to Garnett being injury). Wilt in 67 and Garnett in 04 maybe, but I wouldn’t go there myself.

As it comes to Wemby, I’m very much rooting for his success and want nothing but the best ITO development.. but I can’t see him being the best player in the league on each respective side. No knack, the air is just that rarified.

Dwight disagrees

D-RAPM/PIPM/Net-swing goes brrr

LOL! I don't know why "brrr" is so funny to me but it is.

I think people have forgotten how good '09 LeBron was on defense, irrespective of whether or not Dwight was better. One of the craziest defensive plays I've ever seen is this:

James's hips are angled but almost parallel to the baseline. He gets juked and with all his momentum taking him to his left and the offensive player blowing by him on the right side, he instantly swivels his hips, takes a couple of steps, explodes off his right foot, and blocks the shot with his right hand.

[Double Clutch]

Could definitely make an argument for 1994 Hakeem. That was a weaker year for offensive juggernauts and his defense was still at the tail end of his prime.

[Special_Puppy]

Kawhi Leonard is the only recent player who would have a remote chance of being the best offensive and defensive player at the same time

[VanWest82]

KG has a sneaky case in 04. Down year from Kobe. Shaq fell off. McGrady not efficient. Down years from Dirk and Nash. Duncan's mins went down in 04. KG upped his aggression offensively that year. I'd almost argue KG had stiffer competition defensively (Wallace and Duncan).

Jordan should be considered given he actually won DPOY. I don't think it's right to discard him (defensively) just because he was a guard given none of the other guards impacted as many possessions as MJ did in 88. He was more like a big in that sense.

[OhayoKD]

Dwight disagrees

D-RAPM/PIPM/Net-swing goes brrr

LOL! I don't know why "brrr" is so funny to me but it is.

I think people have forgotten how good '09 LeBron was on defense, irrespective of whether or not Dwight was better. One of the craziest defensive plays I've ever seen is this:

James's hips are angled but almost parallel to the baseline. He gets juked and with all his momentum taking him to his left and the offensive player blowing by him on the right side, he instantly swivels his hips, takes a couple of steps, explodes off his right foot, and blocks the shot with his right hand.

It's crazy how players look better when they're playing their natural position.

I have doubts about him being better than dwight on that end for entirely conceptual reasons, but perhaps an impact-case would disagree(though I thought Dwight's D-PIPM and splits were higher). If there was a non-big dpoy year, I do think from a standpoint of skillset, and versatility in production, that year would be at or near the top of my list.

[The Explorer]

I was listening to the Russillo podcast about the annual GM survey and what percentage of GM's would take Wembanyama to start a franchise. And I was wondering if Wembanyama had the potential to be both the best offensive and defensive player in the NBA.

Historically has this ever happened? Has there ever been a player in NBA history who was both the best offensive and defensive player at the same time?

Maybe '67 Wilt? Even though Russell was still in the league.

Maybe '94 Hakeem since Magic and MJ were both retired at that point. Although someone could question if Shaq was a better offensive player than Hakeem.

Maybe 13 LeBron? Howard had fallen off on defense because of his back injury and KD was still quite young.

1988 Jordan

[Cavsfansince84]

Kawhi Leonard is the only recent player who would have a remote chance of being the best offensive and defensive player at the same time

LeBron was much closer in 09-13 than Kawhi ever was imo. By 2016 when Kawhi's offense started to significantly improve(still not really close to best in league) he was no longer even in the conversation for best def player. By 2017 you could make an argument for best off player(though tbh I don't think there's that many people who would say he was top 3 that year), no real argument for best def player and then in 2019 is probably the only year he has an argument for best off player(due in part to injuries to LeBron, KD & Steph) but defensively I don't think he's even top 20.

[MrLurker]

1974 Kareem is my only pick for that, although I would entertain a postseason specific argument for 1995 Hakeem. I think it is too tall an ask for a perimetre player to qualify as the absolute best defender, even with a postseason specific lens. 2016 Lebron comes closest in the sense I think you could conceivably argue he was second to Draymond in the postseason, but top outright, no, and that is specifically in a postseason with weaker competition among defensive bigs. It is a little more conceivable for bigs to go on such a valuable scoring streak that they qualify, but even then, 1974 Kareem has the benefit of playing in a league with declined offensive play from usual mainstays Oscar and West, and 1995 playoff Hakeem is still competing with Reggie, Penny, Shaq, KJ…

It’s fascinating Kareem is the most popular pick here.

People are reluctant to acknowledge his peak as on par - but being the best defender and attacker jn the league is the refrain often recited for Jordan - and less often Lebron when coloring them as better than everyone else