Is Andre Iguodala a Hall of Famer?

[parsnips33]

I'm surprised 6 people said yes.

Why would getting the worst FMVP in history make him a Hall of Famer? That's basically his only claim. Outside of that, being the 5th best player on the most stacked team of all time doesn't really cut it for me.

Even if you think (insert name here) was the worst president of all time - he was still president right?

Meh. The worst president of all time was still the worst, most influential human being on the planet for 4-8 years of all time. Regardless of their competence they're still extremely important.

Going back to basketbol, the worst MVP of all time is still the "worst" top 5ish player for a single given year, of all time. There is a bare minimum standard that they still meet which makes them a significant player. DRose and AI were still very good.

The worst FMVP of all time however is just the worst dude that participated in a single playoff series. Nothing noteworthy at all, not really a baseline of excellence to give any credit to.

Well I agree on the last point, if HOF is a measure of a certain level of excellence over a career, FMVP would have very little significance. But if it's more about recording the history of the sport, I think something like an FMVP is more important, regardless of the quality of the player

[Doctor MJ]

Is the Hall of Fame about capturing the history of the sport? Or is it just an indication of having reached a certain level of sustained excellence?

Which do you claim is Iggy's case against the likes of Billups, Rasheed Wallace, or Ben Wallace? (Even ignoring the rest of the claimants)

I know you asked parsnips, but just to chime in:

Ben’s in, and I would consider him the most HOF worthy of the 4.

Billups next in the list and I expect he’ll get in.

Sheed’s next on the list and I think he should be in based simply on basketball…but i think his behavior might keep him out. HOF prolly not interested in a guy talking about his career as a mega-millionaire “slave”.

For this reason I think it’s entirely possible that Rip Hamilton gets in instead of the Pistons get 3 guys.

I would put Iggy behind Sheed but above Rip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[penbeast0]

Yeah, I'm not thinking of Rip Hamilton as a HOF caliber player. Good player, not HOF even under a loose definition. Rasheed is at least a possibility even if he never makes it because of his dislikability factor like Bill Laimbeer.

I forgot Ben Wallace had made it.

[Doctor MJ]

Yeah, I'm not thinking of Rip Hamilton as a HOF caliber player. Good player, not HOF even under a loose definition. Rasheed is at least a possibility even if he never makes it because of his dislikability factor like Bill Laimbeer.

I forgot Ben Wallace had made it.

Well for me Rip is the 5th best player on those Pistons behind Prince so I'm not arguing on his behalf.

At the time of their chip though, the narrative really focused around Ben & Rip. While I'm confident that Billups surpassed Rip in the eyes of the mainstream with time, I wouldn't be surprised if folks see him as "the next guy to consider" after Billups gets in.

Agree that Sheed's dislikability factor will be a serious factor.

[penbeast0]

Well for me Rip is the 5th best player on those Pistons behind Prince so I'm not arguing on his behalf.

At the time of their chip though, the narrative really focused around Ben & Rip. While I'm confident that Billups surpassed Rip in the eyes of the mainstream with time, I wouldn't be surprised if folks see him as "the next guy to consider" after Billups gets in.

Agree that Sheed's dislikability factor will be a serious factor.

I don't remember that at all. I remember during the regular season, the whole "Fear the Fro" thing was big, then Rasheed's addition was credited for making them contenders, then Billups getting Finals MVP and the debate over which of those 3 was the real team MVP. For my memory, Rip and Tay were sort of also rans though some casuals had Rip just because he was the team's leading scorer.

[Doctor MJ]

Well for me Rip is the 5th best player on those Pistons behind Prince so I'm not arguing on his behalf.

At the time of their chip though, the narrative really focused around Ben & Rip. While I'm confident that Billups surpassed Rip in the eyes of the mainstream with time, I wouldn't be surprised if folks see him as "the next guy to consider" after Billups gets in.

Agree that Sheed's dislikability factor will be a serious factor.

I don't remember that at all. I remember during the regular season, the whole "Fear the Fro" thing was big, then Rasheed's addition was credited for making them contenders, then Billups getting Finals MVP and the debate over which of those 3 was the real team MVP. For my memory, Rip and Tay were sort of also rans though some casuals had Rip just because he was the team's leading scorer.

Ben and his Fro is absolutely the most iconic part of the team, but Rip in the Mask was the second imho.

He was the team's lead scorer, regular season and playoffs, played in an unconventional way (rover), and was wearing said mask. He drew sizable attention.

Interestingly, this is a case where we can actually go back and see how much attention the internet was paying to these guys at the time with Google Trends. A web search of 2004 for that Pistons 5 shows the following:

Interest at the time of the chip:

Ben Wallace 100
Richard Hamilton 67
Chauncey Billups 60
Rasheed Wallace 50
Tayshaun Prince 28

(Note they scale it so that the biggest value in the plot as 100. It's not a meaningful figure outside of context.)

Interest the week before before Billups big splash in the finals:

Richard Hamilton 45
Ben Wallace 42
Rasheed Wallace 31
Tayshaun Prince 23
Chauncey Billups 16

Average over the course of 2004

Ben Wallace 14 (generally the highest, but also has a secondary peak after Malice at Palace)
Rasheed Wallace 9 (major spike with trades)
Richard Hamilton 8
Chauncey Billups 5
Tayshaun Prince 4

I really do believe that Billups emergence to be generally the highest rated player on those Pistons is a fascinatingly slow burn, all the more compelling due to the fact of Billups being seen as something of a disappointment before his Detroit success.

[Doctor MJ]

You know, after writing that post, I have something of an idea:

Death Lineup HOF Project - identifying that all-time great 5 man units in history.

The Fro Five would absolutely be in.

[Colbinii]

The 2008 Celtics had a +19 Net Rtg in the RS and +10 in the PS.

The 2016 Cavaliers line-up of LeBron/Love/Kyrie/JR/TT was also amazing.

[trex_8063]

There are plenty of players better or comparable to Iguodala that aren't a part of HoF, so the answer is no.

Could you give me some examples?

As I said above, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace, and Ben Wallace from the Pistons team that beat the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, just for a start.

Vince Carter, Shawn Kemp, Buck Williams, Gus Williams, Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, Marques Johnson, Mark Aquirre, Walter Davis, Amare Stoudamire, Shawn Marion, Penny Hardaway . . . just a few names from Not in Hall of Fame article.

https://www.notinhalloffame.com/basketball/

If you want a true peer, Robert Horry isn't in the HOF either.

I knew Kevin Johnson still wasn't in, and he always seemed like the most obvious [egregious] omission. Though I get that because of his post-career personal life scandals, the Hall probably just doesn't want to go near him. In a way it's a bit of a shame; such a great player, very very obviously SHOULD be in there based on his basketball credentials.

Chauncey is another who very obviously should be in there.

Many of the other players mentioned [by you or the article] I would agree probably should get in before Iggy.


That said, wrt Vince Carter: is he even eligible yet? I thought he wasn't eligible until 2024 (and if so, obviously he hasn't yet been snubbed in any way). For that matter, Iggy won't be eligible for a few years.

[parsnips33]

You know, after writing that post, I have something of an idea:

Death Lineup HOF Project - identifying that all-time great 5 man units in history.

The Fro Five would absolutely be in.

Would LOVE something like this - not nearly enough comparison of 5 man units compared to individuals

[Doctor MJ]

You know, after writing that post, I have something of an idea:

Death Lineup HOF Project - identifying that all-time great 5 man units in history.

The Fro Five would absolutely be in.

Would LOVE something like this - not nearly enough comparison of 5 man units compared to individuals

Agree. I think that focus on 5-man units would level folks up more than either individual or complete team evaluations.