Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[sidsid]

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His Defence has looked very good this preseason. Help defense has been good and he now has the strength to bang with centers similar to draymond, making him very versatile. He’s definitely looking like a plus player defensively and is not taking breaks at that end.

Also, like how darko is using him, in those 6 minute Bursts or so, so he can go all out, get a couple minutes and do it again.

If we want to make Giannis comparisons, the one I want is the role Giannis plays as the roaming 4 next to Lopez.

There's always been criticism of Giannis for not taking on the big superstar assignments, but it's in part because he's simply too valuable off-ball and also better at it.

[Yeezus_]

Scottie doesn't even need to be an elite man to man defender, which I also don't think he'll ever be. Though, he can be an elite help defender with his size and length like Giannis. He's been showing signs of this in pre-season, hopefully it carries on in the season.

[tdotrep2]

scottie needs to be the help guy, im not putting him on other teams guards. We should be finding matchups for him where he can roam, only when needed put him on the other teams skill guy barring its a speedy guard

[YogurtProducer]

Scottie doesn't even need to be an elite man to man defender, which I also don't think he'll ever be. Though, he can be an elite help defender with his size and length like Giannis. He's been showing signs of this in pre-season, hopefully it carries on in the season.

And if he develops into a #1 option offensively you don't wanna have them guarding the best players anyway. Kawhi / LBJ / Butler don't guard the #1 option outside of like key playoff games as a last result when their teammates fail

[Raps in 4]

Next question: is this the year Scottie passes Pascal as best player on the team?

I think the answer is No, but based on what we just saw this preseason I could easily see that happening.

I think there will be a debate this year. By next season I think it won’t be a debate anymore. And in year five I think we’ll be having top 10 in the NBA conversations.

I don’t want to be mean but what is this based on ? Preseason games in which Scottie was trying harder than anyone else on the court ? Or just your internal projections for him.

Going from what he was last year to being debatable on whether he’s better than a third team all nba caliber player is a massive leap. I really hope you’re right.

Young players make big leaps from year to year.

[tsherkin]

The goal of a star when the game slows down for you is to pick your spots when the team needs you. We were treating Siakam almost like a heliocentric player. Jimmy Butler wasn't even used that way.

When the offense is flowing you get your teammates involved and keep it flowing. When it grinds to halt the ball gets to you and that's where we need him to do work.

Mmmm, I don't know that I agree, if I understood you correctly. Stars come in different forms and with different skills. Not everyone is Jordan, for example.

Siakam also clearly can't sustain offense at a reasonable/useful level the way we have been using him, so slowing it down and letting him grind it out too much is very clearly and explicitly NOT how we should be using him. We've seen that for several years now. He has talent and skill, but we are very much not deploying him well.

I think we both agree that we're using him that way too much, though, yes?

[ATLTimekeeper]

His usage is relatively low. He plays too many minutes. Less time on the floor, more energy for defense, more leg strength for late game jumpers. Jimmy Butler stopped playing 37 minutes a night in Chicago, and has been around 33 in Miami. Pascal had two straight + 37 minute seasons. The best thing Scottie can do for Pascal is keep him off the floor.

[tsherkin]

His usage is relatively low. He plays too many minutes. Less time on the floor, more energy for defense, more leg strength for late game jumpers. Jimmy Butler stopped playing 37 minutes a night in Chicago, and has been around 33 in Miami. Pascal had two straight + 37 minute seasons. The best thing Scottie can do for Pascal is keep him off the floor.

I don't really that Pascal plays too many minutes. He's playing 37 mpg. Decades and decades of NBA players have managed this and more and he doesn't do so much aggressive change-of-direction that this is a big deal. Maybe modulate his minutes on back-to-backs and other dense portions of the schedule, but overall, it isn't actually any kind of consequential issue playing into the reasons behind his performance.

His usage isn't helio usage, but it's less his usage than the playtypes he's using in order to get there which are the issue for him.

[OakleyDokely]

His usage is relatively low. He plays too many minutes. Less time on the floor, more energy for defense, more leg strength for late game jumpers. Jimmy Butler stopped playing 37 minutes a night in Chicago, and has been around 33 in Miami. Pascal had two straight + 37 minute seasons. The best thing Scottie can do for Pascal is keep him off the floor.

I don't really that Pascal plays too many minutes. He's playing 37 mpg. Decades and decades of NBA players have managed this and more and he doesn't do so much aggressive change-of-direction that this is a big deal. Maybe modulate his minutes on back-to-backs and other dense portions of the schedule, but overall, it isn't actually any kind of consequential issue playing into the reasons behind his performance.

His usage isn't helio usage, but it's less his usage than the playtypes he's using in order to get there which are the issue for him.

The game is a lot faster now, with a lot more possessions and every player is expected to at least try defensively. I think this is a big reason most stars are in the 33-36 range now.

[OakleyDokely]

Where I think all the minutes hurt Siakam the most is defensively. He can't be as aggressive because he needs to preserve energy for the offensive end.

[Scase]

scottie needs to be the help guy, im not putting him on other teams guards. We should be finding matchups for him where he can roam, only when needed put him on the other teams skill guy barring its a speedy guard

All the more reason we should retain OG and move Siakam long term.

[ATLTimekeeper]

His usage is relatively low. He plays too many minutes. Less time on the floor, more energy for defense, more leg strength for late game jumpers. Jimmy Butler stopped playing 37 minutes a night in Chicago, and has been around 33 in Miami. Pascal had two straight + 37 minute seasons. The best thing Scottie can do for Pascal is keep him off the floor.

I don't really that Pascal plays too many minutes. He's playing 37 mpg. Decades and decades of NBA players have managed this and more and he doesn't do so much aggressive change-of-direction that this is a big deal. Maybe modulate his minutes on back-to-backs and other dense portions of the schedule, but overall, it isn't actually any kind of consequential issue playing into the reasons behind his performance.

His usage isn't helio usage, but it's less his usage than the playtypes he's using in order to get there which are the issue for him.

A decade ago the league leading team in pace would have been last in pace in 2023. Decades and decades of guys grabbing their shorts while the point guard walked the ball up the floor or threw it into a big man for an 8 count post move.

I think he was a very good iso scorer last year. Pretty good post player. I wouldn't take too much of those away from him. The other guys need to get better, so that teams can't stack up against him as quickly.

[sidsid]

The goal of a star when the game slows down for you is to pick your spots when the team needs you. We were treating Siakam almost like a heliocentric player. Jimmy Butler wasn't even used that way.

When the offense is flowing you get your teammates involved and keep it flowing. When it grinds to halt the ball gets to you and that's where we need him to do work.

Mmmm, I don't know that I agree, if I understood you correctly. Stars come in different forms and with different skills. Not everyone is Jordan, for example.

Siakam also clearly can't sustain offense at a reasonable/useful level the way we have been using him, so slowing it down and letting him grind it out too much is very clearly and explicitly NOT how we should be using him. We've seen that for several years now. He has talent and skill, but we are very much not deploying him well.

I think we both agree that we're using him that way too much, though, yes?

Yes, what I was saying is that he's not Doncic and we shouldn't use him that way. He's a great twitch athlete that can get a lot of advantages on the move and receiving the ball in motion.

Giannis bristles at being used too much as a screener because he thinks that's just for role players. But role players can't take the ball off the short roll above the break and actually do something constructive with it.

Back to Siakam. When all your nice ball movement leads to nothing Siakam will get the ball and have his opportunities to Iso there (when the flow of the offense is countered by the D).

[TheAlchemist23]

scottie needs to be the help guy, im not putting him on other teams guards. We should be finding matchups for him where he can roam, only when needed put him on the other teams skill guy barring its a speedy guard

Raptors won't be going away from Scottie defending guards anytime soon. The main adjustment during the 2nd half of the Wizards was putting Scottie on Tyus Jones.

[HumbleRen]

Give me 18/7/5 Scott Barns

[OakleyDokely]

Give me 18/7/5 Scott Barns

first half numbers.

[HumbleRen]

Give me 18/7/5 Scott Barns

first half numbers.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

scottie needs to be the help guy, im not putting him on other teams guards. We should be finding matchups for him where he can roam, only when needed put him on the other teams skill guy barring its a speedy guard

Raptors won't be going away from Scottie defending guards anytime soon. The main adjustment during the 2nd half of the Wizards was putting Scottie on Tyus Jones.

Nick Nurse last year had Scottie playing this dumb over aggressive defense so he should be way better guarding smaller guys this time around not playing like that.

[Truthrising]

scottie needs to be the help guy, im not putting him on other teams guards. We should be finding matchups for him where he can roam, only when needed put him on the other teams skill guy barring its a speedy guard

Raptors won't be going away from Scottie defending guards anytime soon. The main adjustment during the 2nd half of the Wizards was putting Scottie on Tyus Jones.

Nick Nurse last year had Scottie playing this dumb over aggressive defense so he should be way better guarding smaller guys this time around not playing like that.

One thing I hated was Nicks aggressive defensive schemes. Always left the opposing corner 3s open.

[djsunyc]

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