More skilled at their peaks: Chris Paul or Kyrie Irving?

[JJ_PR]

Watching the GS-PHX highlights & Chris Paul stood out. The man is 38 years old & still having a big impact on all facets. Kyrie is considered one of the most skilled offensive players ever himself.

Who was more skilled at their peaks?

[MrGoat]

They have completely different skillsets so it's almost apples to oranges. CP3 is more skilled at controlling a game and distributing. Kyrie is more skilled at ball handling and scoring

[jasonxxx102]

"skill" is subjective and in this context impossible to measure

I always thought Kyrie had a more aesthetically pleasing game so I'll go with him I guess

[dans1230]

"skill" is subjective and in this context impossible to measure

I always thought Kyrie had a more aesthetically pleasing game so I'll go with him I guess

Exactly, the game of basketball is made up of 100 different skills. You would have to break it down a bit more.
Offensively skilled-Kyrie
Defensively skilled-CP3
Ball handling-Kyrie
BBIQ- CP3
etc.....

[God Squad]

Probably Kyrie. But I'm taking young CP3 over most PG's from this era. IMO he was as complete a point guard as you can get.

But I understand the criticism he receives.

[jbk1234]

CP3 was an insane triple threat, the best pure PG in the NBA, and a really good defender at his peak. This isn't particularly close for me.

[playoffs]

Kyrie is flashier but CP3 is much better at basketball (and contributes a lot more to team success) while having much fewer physical gifts, so I'll go with him.

[dhsilv2]

"skill" is subjective and in this context impossible to measure

I always thought Kyrie had a more aesthetically pleasing game so I'll go with him I guess

Exactly, the game of basketball is made up of 100 different skills. You would have to break it down a bit more.
Offensively skilled-Kyrie
Defensively skilled-CP3
Ball handling-Kyrie
BBIQ- CP3
etc.....

In what way is Irving more SKILLED? He's got better body control and fluidity which is 100% athletics.

[dhsilv2]

Probably Kyrie. But I'm taking young CP3 over most PG's from this era. IMO he was as complete a point guard as you can get.

But I understand the criticism he receives.

How could YOUNG CP3 be more skilled then he currently is?

[MessiahUjiri]

Peak Kyrie = top 5-7 in the NBA kind of impact

Peak CP3 = top 15 in the NBA kind of impact


CP3 has better intangibles, but Kyrie is more “skilled”.

[dhsilv2]

Peak Kyrie = top 5-7 in the NBA kind of impact

Peak CP3 = top 15 in the NBA kind of impact


CP3 has better intangibles, but Kyrie is more “skilled”.

Wait..you think at their best CP3 was only top 15 and Iriving was top 5????????

[jasonxxx102]

"skill" is subjective and in this context impossible to measure

I always thought Kyrie had a more aesthetically pleasing game so I'll go with him I guess

Exactly, the game of basketball is made up of 100 different skills. You would have to break it down a bit more.
Offensively skilled-Kyrie
Defensively skilled-CP3
Ball handling-Kyrie
BBIQ- CP3
etc.....

In what way is Irving more SKILLED? He's got better body control and fluidity which is 100% athletics.

you don't think body control is a skill?

He's one of the best rim finishers of all time, possibly the best ball handler in NBA history, he's very skilled offensively.

I'm not really gonna answer the question in OP because it's 100% subjective but I consider Kyrie one of the most skilled guards in this era

[dhsilv2]

Exactly, the game of basketball is made up of 100 different skills. You would have to break it down a bit more.
Offensively skilled-Kyrie
Defensively skilled-CP3
Ball handling-Kyrie
BBIQ- CP3
etc.....

In what way is Irving more SKILLED? He's got better body control and fluidity which is 100% athletics.

you don't think body control is a skill?

He's one of the best rim finishers of all time, possibly the best ball handler in NBA history, he's very skilled offensively.

I'm not really gonna answer the question in OP because it's 100% subjective but I consider Kyrie one of the most skilled guards in this era

No, body control is almost completely innate. Even ball handling has a HUGE athletic component. When I think of skill, I think of those mid range curls CP3 runs. Now certainly, Paul uses his posterior size (genetics) to get space, but it's a skill to learn how to do that so effectively. Similar with his reads while he does that.

[jasonxxx102]

In what way is Irving more SKILLED? He's got better body control and fluidity which is 100% athletics.

you don't think body control is a skill?

He's one of the best rim finishers of all time, possibly the best ball handler in NBA history, he's very skilled offensively.

I'm not really gonna answer the question in OP because it's 100% subjective but I consider Kyrie one of the most skilled guards in this era

No, body control is almost completely innate. Even ball handling has a HUGE athletic component. When I think of skill, I think of those mid range curls CP3 runs. Now certainly, Paul uses his posterior size (genetics) to get space, but it's a skill to learn how to do that so effectively. Similar with his reads while he does that.

This is all just semantics. You could argue any top tier skills when you're at the highest level are innate in the sense you are using it.

That would suggest that you can't get better at something like body control over time, which we know is not true. A skill is something you can refine and improve over time. Which is basically everything except size

[TheShow2021]

Peak Kyrie = top 5-7 in the NBA kind of impact

Peak CP3 = top 15 in the NBA kind of impact


.

CP3 had more impact on winning.
2nd in VORP 3 times
3rd in VORP 3 times

But "skilled" is different from impact on winning. And it's within reason that Kyrie was more skilled.

[dhsilv2]

you don't think body control is a skill?

He's one of the best rim finishers of all time, possibly the best ball handler in NBA history, he's very skilled offensively.

I'm not really gonna answer the question in OP because it's 100% subjective but I consider Kyrie one of the most skilled guards in this era

No, body control is almost completely innate. Even ball handling has a HUGE athletic component. When I think of skill, I think of those mid range curls CP3 runs. Now certainly, Paul uses his posterior size (genetics) to get space, but it's a skill to learn how to do that so effectively. Similar with his reads while he does that.

This is all just semantics. You could argue any top tier skills when you're at the highest level are innate in the sense you are using it.

That would suggest that you can't get better at something like body control over time, which we know is not true. A skill is something you can refine and improve over time. Which is basically everything except size

I don't believe anyone is better at balance at 35 than 25. Most of what people call skill in basketball isn't and that's why so many of these debates about athleticism are wrong.

[art_tatum]

1 guy was instrumental in getting cleveland their 1 and only ring, hitting one of the biggest shots in nba history. when kyrie started to play well in the 2nd half of the 2016 finals the series turned around. the 73 win warriors and their D could not stop a 23/24 yr old kyrie. when curry and lebron were both busy brick shots in the closing minutes of game 7, he came through.

people may crap on him for his attitude or lack of winning in the POs as a number 1 option
but paul as never gotten far as a number 1 option either.
people say cp3 contributes to winning more bc of how he manages the game, but imo most his teams have under performed in the playoffs. especially the clipper days in his prime. his teammates said it was no fun basketball and in practice, so maybe his style of play limited the actual teams potential bc its a bit more rigid.
both great players. close call. i will say age 23/24 cp3 (Hornets) and kyrie (2017 cavs) were top notch.

[jasonxxx102]

No, body control is almost completely innate. Even ball handling has a HUGE athletic component. When I think of skill, I think of those mid range curls CP3 runs. Now certainly, Paul uses his posterior size (genetics) to get space, but it's a skill to learn how to do that so effectively. Similar with his reads while he does that.

This is all just semantics. You could argue any top tier skills when you're at the highest level are innate in the sense you are using it.

That would suggest that you can't get better at something like body control over time, which we know is not true. A skill is something you can refine and improve over time. Which is basically everything except size

I don't believe anyone is better at balance at 35 than 25. Most of what people call skill in basketball isn't and that's why so many of these debates about athleticism are wrong.

Maybe you're not better at 35 than 25 just because you're right athleticism is a big component of that... but what about from 19 to 25? Just learning game situations & practicing.

My whole point was that people's definition of skill is all over the place and entirely subjective. I consider skill to be everything that's not size/measurements and you don't but neither of us is more right or wrong than the other.

[og15]

What do you mean by skilled?

If you mean overall skilled in every aspect of basketball play, then it is Paul. He's a more skilled defensive player, more skilled passer, they are both elite shooters and ball handlers that making distinction there doesn't change anything, but Kyrie is a more skilled scorer, though the better size and athleticism also gives an advantage there.

Peak Kyrie = top 5-7 in the NBA kind of impact

Peak CP3 = top 15 in the NBA kind of impact


CP3 has better intangibles, but Kyrie is more “skilled”.

This would actually be the opposite. Peak Paul is giving you top 5-7 impact, he doesn't just score, he facilitates, he impacts defense both with his individual effort and communication, he'll even go battle on the glass better than Kyrie does.

[jasonxxx102]

What do you mean by skilled?

If you mean overall skilled in every aspect of basketball play, then it is Paul. He's a more skilled defensive player, more skilled passer, they are both elite shooters and ball handlers that making distinction there doesn't change anything, but Kyrie is a more skilled scorer, though the better size and athleticism also gives an advantage there.

Peak Kyrie = top 5-7 in the NBA kind of impact

Peak CP3 = top 15 in the NBA kind of impact


CP3 has better intangibles, but Kyrie is more “skilled”.

This would actually be the opposite. Peak Paul is giving you top 5-7 impact, he doesn't just score, he facilitates, he impacts defense both with his individual effort and communication, he'll even go battle on the glass better than Kyrie does.

and at this point the discussion is more of "who would you rather have based on your team"

If you need the lead guard, facilitator you'd rather have Paul. If you have that guy and you need a dynamic scorer you'd rather have Kyrie