Trae Young is Ridiculously Underrated

[Goose egg]

People hate him cuz of his mug. If he looked like kyrie they’d love him. I bet more than 1 person who said he’s bad because his defense is bad has also posted that defense doesn’t matter in todays nba / Jordan would be unstoppable today.

Offensive talent of his level is rare. People will cry until the cows come home but those Memphis teams of years past would’ve swapped that version of Conley for trae in a minute to pair with tony Allen.

Let’s be honest people the problem is he’s a top 2nd tier star judged like a first tier star. there’s a thread where people replace Simmons with nba finals winners. You could put trae over almost any #2 on those teams and they’d still win the title. It’s kyrie all over again, if you pair him with a #1 he’s gonna be a serious threat and can lead a team to the playoffs on his own

[JustBuzzin]

Check out the Luka thread.

They hyping Luka because he loss in the conference Finals. Trae has the same resume.

I'm just trying to figure out what all the Luka hype is about. He hasn't really did anything in the playoffs.

Jason Tatum makes the Finals damn near every other year and you got people thinking Luka is better than Tatum. Like c'mon stop it.

[timO]

Check out the Luka thread.

They hyping Luka because he loss in the conference Finals. Trae has the same resume.

I'm just trying to figure out what all the Luka hype is about. He hasn't really did anything in the playoffs.

Jason Tatum makes the Finals damn near every other year and you got people thinking Luka is better than Tatum. Like c'mon stop it.

season debut said all

luka 33-13-10 52%FG

trae 23-9-1 21%FG

[rapstarter]

Check out the Luka thread.

They hyping Luka because he loss in the conference Finals. Trae has the same resume.

I'm just trying to figure out what all the Luka hype is about. He hasn't really did anything in the playoffs.

Jason Tatum makes the Finals damn near every other year and you got people thinking Luka is better than Tatum. Like c'mon stop it.

Hawks and especially the Celtics have had much superior talent around their #1 guy than the Mavs have. If you compare their playoffs performances I don't know how anyone could argue Trae's been on the same tier. Luka's averaging 33/9/8 on 58TS%; Trae 26/3/9 on 53%

[MoneyTalks41890]

Luka is probably a below average defender in space, but he's strong so he can do better in more crowded situations.

Trae is one of the worst defenders we've ever seen, and doesn't seem keen to even try on that end.

[JustBuzzin]

Luka is probably a below average defender in space, but he's strong so he can do better in more crowded situations.

Trae is one of the worst defenders we've ever seen, and doesn't seem keen to even try on that end.

My man lets cut to the chase what has either played won?

These dudes still haven't reached a Finals appearance yet. Neither Luka or Trae are too 5 players until they actually win something.

LeBron was getting criticism for not winning a championship and he was dominating the East.

So what makes you think Luka and Trae are amongst the elite?

[MoneyTalks41890]

Luka is probably a below average defender in space, but he's strong so he can do better in more crowded situations.

Trae is one of the worst defenders we've ever seen, and doesn't seem keen to even try on that end.

My man lets cut to the chase what has either played won?

These dudes still haven't reached a Finals appearance yet. Neither Luka or Trae are too 5 players until they actually win something.

LeBron was getting criticism for not winning a championship and he was dominating the East.

So what makes you think Luka and Trae are amongst the elite?

I've always felt that was dumb. I had KD and Bron in the top tier long before they actually won something. I thought they were elite the way I think Luka is elite because of what they are able to do in the majority of the basketball games they play in against the best competition in the world. I think for similar reasons Trae is an incredible offensive player in both his shot making and passing.

Does dominating in the playoffs do a lot to vault players? Yes, it has changed my views on Jimmy dramatically, even though he hasn't actually won anything. But saying a ring is necessary to be an elite player is silly. They only give out one a year.

[JustBuzzin]

Luka is probably a below average defender in space, but he's strong so he can do better in more crowded situations.

Trae is one of the worst defenders we've ever seen, and doesn't seem keen to even try on that end.

My man lets cut to the chase what has either played won?

These dudes still haven't reached a Finals appearance yet. Neither Luka or Trae are too 5 players until they actually win something.

LeBron was getting criticism for not winning a championship and he was dominating the East.

So what makes you think Luka and Trae are amongst the elite?

I've always felt that was dumb. I had KD and Bron in the top tier long before they actually won something. I thought they were elite the way I think Luka is elite because of what they are able to do in the majority of the basketball games they play in against the best competition in the world. I think for similar reasons Trae is an incredible offensive player in both his shot making and passing.

Does dominating in the playoffs do a lot to vault players? Yes, it has changed my views on Jimmy dramatically, even though he hasn't actually won anything. But saying a ring is necessary to be an elite player is silly. They only give out one a year.

I'm not saying a ring is the end all be all.

I'm saying at least lead a team to the Finals or win a MVP. Give me something I can look at and say yeah this guy belongs in the top 5 players in the league.

[Mr Loggins]

My man lets cut to the chase what has either played won?

These dudes still haven't reached a Finals appearance yet. Neither Luka or Trae are too 5 players until they actually win something.

LeBron was getting criticism for not winning a championship and he was dominating the East.

So what makes you think Luka and Trae are amongst the elite?

I've always felt that was dumb. I had KD and Bron in the top tier long before they actually won something. I thought they were elite the way I think Luka is elite because of what they are able to do in the majority of the basketball games they play in against the best competition in the world. I think for similar reasons Trae is an incredible offensive player in both his shot making and passing.

Does dominating in the playoffs do a lot to vault players? Yes, it has changed my views on Jimmy dramatically, even though he hasn't actually won anything. But saying a ring is necessary to be an elite player is silly. They only give out one a year.

I'm not saying a ring is the end all be all.

I'm saying at least lead a team to the Finals or win a MVP. Give me something I can look at and say yeah this guy belongs in the top 5 players in the league.

so might as well add Embiid to the Luka/Trae conversation since he’s in the same boat of never won anything

[Rainwater]

Trae is putting up numbers but his team remains consistently mediocre.

So, from 2020 onward, Trae has averaged 27.3 ppg and 9.7 apg. In that time, Atlanta has been -3.4, +3.4, +4.5, +1.8 and -4.1 relative ORTG. When they've had pieces, they've been pretty good on O. They've been crap on D and had 4 different coaches... but were still the 2nd-best O in the league in 2022.

He isn't without impact. In 2022, he was second in the league in O-EPM...

Again proving my point his stats may look nice but his team have been mediocre. Despite the great stats by Trae the hawks have been a borderline playoff team.

I feel like the hawks have made so many changes for trae but the constant has been him. When are the hawks going to realize the problem may not be everyone else but Trae himself.

And I feel like if people dig deeper people will realize his stats are kinda deceptive. Trae is a great playmaker but even though he gets 27 ppg he is a mediocre shooter who has a tendency to chuck the ball which hurts his team in my opinion. His TS% is good but it is held up by the fact he he gets to the line not because he particularly shoots well. Then add the fact he is a poor defender makes matters worse. I just don’t think Trae is the kinda of player you build your team around. I feel like he is better suited as a 2nd or 3rd option. Putting him beside an Embiid would do wonders for.

[Rainwater]

Check out the Luka thread.

They hyping Luka because he loss in the conference Finals. Trae has the same resume.

I'm just trying to figure out what all the Luka hype is about. He hasn't really did anything in the playoffs.

Jason Tatum makes the Finals damn near every other year and you got people thinking Luka is better than Tatum. Like c'mon stop it.

In terms of success Trae and Luka may be similar but in terms of being a basketball player Luka is far better and it’s not even close.

[Rainwater]

My man lets cut to the chase what has either played won?

These dudes still haven't reached a Finals appearance yet. Neither Luka or Trae are too 5 players until they actually win something.

LeBron was getting criticism for not winning a championship and he was dominating the East.

So what makes you think Luka and Trae are amongst the elite?

I've always felt that was dumb. I had KD and Bron in the top tier long before they actually won something. I thought they were elite the way I think Luka is elite because of what they are able to do in the majority of the basketball games they play in against the best competition in the world. I think for similar reasons Trae is an incredible offensive player in both his shot making and passing.

Does dominating in the playoffs do a lot to vault players? Yes, it has changed my views on Jimmy dramatically, even though he hasn't actually won anything. But saying a ring is necessary to be an elite player is silly. They only give out one a year.

I'm not saying a ring is the end all be all.

I'm saying at least lead a team to the Finals or win a MVP. Give me something I can look at and say yeah this guy belongs in the top 5 players in the league.

Reaching the finals has more to do with how the team positions itself rather than a single player. I remember Kobe played on some crappy teams when Shaq left, does that make him less of a player?

[tsherkin]

Trae is putting up numbers but his team remains consistently mediocre.

So, from 2020 onward, Trae has averaged 27.3 ppg and 9.7 apg. In that time, Atlanta has been -3.4, +3.4, +4.5, +1.8 and -4.1 relative ORTG. When they've had pieces, they've been pretty good on O. They've been crap on D and had 4 different coaches... but were still the 2nd-best O in the league in 2022.

He isn't without impact. In 2022, he was second in the league in O-EPM...

Again proving my point his stats may look nice but his team have been mediocre. Despite the great stats by Trae the hawks have been a borderline playoff team.

What? No, that's wrong. That isn't what that proved at all. That proved he has quite significant impact on his team, and that the roster is a big, big issue. Yeah, he has his playoff issues but they haven't put help around him. Two years ago, they were the 2nd-best offense in the league. That's huge impact from him.

I feel like the hawks have made so many changes for trae but the constant has been him. When are the hawks going to realize the problem may not be everyone else but Trae himself.

Never, because he isn't inherently the problem. Putting no help around him and asking him to shoulder a volume load too high is the problem. They're actually better than they should be as a result.

His TS% is good but it is held up by the fact he he gets to the line not because he particularly shoots well.

Yes, but that matters only so much. It matters mostly if you put literally no major scoring threats around him to balance that out, primarily. Kind of like with Harden. Guys need help, that's how it works. You don't provide help, then you don't win. Period.

[tsherkin]

Reaching the finals has more to do with how the team positions itself rather than a single player. I remember Kobe played on some crappy teams when Shaq left, does that make him less of a player?

Kobe was even dog-ass in most of the Finals series in which he played, and he was STILL an epic player.

[leo7]

This is often said as if it is some sin. It isn't. Primary on-ball guys do best when utilizing their on-ball skills. That seems a natural extension. He is, after all, a PG. You diminish his utility if you turn him into anything else. Yeah, running a set here or there for him to fade to the corner or something makes any kind of sense, but it shouldn't really be a regular option unless you've got a titanic offensive player next to him.

I completely agree. I don't understand why everyone wants Trae to play off-ball when he is clearly not capable of doing it. He is at his best with the ball in his hands.

I blame the front office for trying to force this Trae/Murray backcourt to work. They should've traded Murray in the off-season.

If they can get him more clean catch and shoot looks, it would help his shooting percentages.

That might mean fewer FTs, as he wouldn't have the ball in his hands as often to try to draw fouls.

But if his FG% and 3P% each rise about 5 points because there's a higher mix of "open" shots for him, maybe it would be a worthwhile tradeoff for not having as many FTs?

See here's the thing, judging by the previous game, it looks like the offense isn't really set up for him to get cleaner catch and shoot looks. Synder just has him running around in circles and driving into difficult shots.

It's just one game, but hopefully Synder has something better because it looks like it's going to a long season.

[Goose egg]

I've always felt that was dumb. I had KD and Bron in the top tier long before they actually won something. I thought they were elite the way I think Luka is elite because of what they are able to do in the majority of the basketball games they play in against the best competition in the world. I think for similar reasons Trae is an incredible offensive player in both his shot making and passing.

Does dominating in the playoffs do a lot to vault players? Yes, it has changed my views on Jimmy dramatically, even though he hasn't actually won anything. But saying a ring is necessary to be an elite player is silly. They only give out one a year.

I'm not saying a ring is the end all be all.

I'm saying at least lead a team to the Finals or win a MVP. Give me something I can look at and say yeah this guy belongs in the top 5 players in the league.

so might as well add Embiid to the Luka/Trae conversation since he’s in the same boat of never won anything

Embiid is the reigning mvp

[Mr Loggins]

I'm not saying a ring is the end all be all.

I'm saying at least lead a team to the Finals or win a MVP. Give me something I can look at and say yeah this guy belongs in the top 5 players in the league.

so might as well add Embiid to the Luka/Trae conversation since he’s in the same boat of never won anything

Embiid is the reigning mvp

look, I'm not saying a ring is the end all be all.

I'm saying at least lead a team to the Finals or win a MVP. Give me something I can look at and say yeah this guy belongs in the top 5 players in the league.

[JustBuzzin]

so might as well add Embiid to the Luka/Trae conversation since he’s in the same boat of never won anything

Embiid is the reigning mvp

look, I'm not saying a ring is the end all be all.

I'm saying at least lead a team to the Finals or win a MVP. Give me something I can look at and say yeah this guy belongs in the top 5 players in the league.

Embiid has a MVP my guy.

[ForeverTFC]

People hate him cuz of his mug. If he looked like kyrie they’d love him. I bet more than 1 person who said he’s bad because his defense is bad has also posted that defense doesn’t matter in todays nba / Jordan would be unstoppable today.

Offensive talent of his level is rare. People will cry until the cows come home but those Memphis teams of years past would’ve swapped that version of Conley for trae in a minute to pair with tony Allen.

Let’s be honest people the problem is he’s a top 2nd tier star judged like a first tier star. there’s a thread where people replace Simmons with nba finals winners. You could put trae over almost any #2 on those teams and they’d still win the title. It’s kyrie all over again, if you pair him with a #1 he’s gonna be a serious threat and can lead a team to the playoffs on his own

This is just an outlandish statement.

- Nuggets would be worse with Trae vs Murray
- Warriors would be worse with Trae vs either Wiggins or Draymond
- Bucks would be worse with Trae vs either of Middleton or Jrue
- Lakers would be worse with Trae vs either Davis or Lebron
- Raptors would be worse with Trae vs either Lowry or Siakam
- Warriors would be worse with Trae vs either of KD or Curry
- Cavs would be worse with Trae vs Kyrie
- Warriors would be worse with Trae vs Klay

Trae would make each of those team worse by taking out their 2nd best player or even 2nd option. And if I'm being extremely generous, at best 2 of these teams win a chip despite of him making them worse.

Take away Trae's FTr and he is a negative on both sides of the ball. We can argue whether his ability to draw fouls is a skill or not, but let's not muddy the facts.

[Rainwater]

So, from 2020 onward, Trae has averaged 27.3 ppg and 9.7 apg. In that time, Atlanta has been -3.4, +3.4, +4.5, +1.8 and -4.1 relative ORTG. When they've had pieces, they've been pretty good on O. They've been crap on D and had 4 different coaches... but were still the 2nd-best O in the league in 2022.

He isn't without impact. In 2022, he was second in the league in O-EPM...

Again proving my point his stats may look nice but his team have been mediocre. Despite the great stats by Trae the hawks have been a borderline playoff team.

What? No, that's wrong. That isn't what that proved at all. That proved he has quite significant impact on his team, and that the roster is a big, big issue. Yeah, he has his playoff issues but they haven't put help around him. Two years ago, they were the 2nd-best offense in the league. That's huge impact from him.

I feel like the hawks have made so many changes for trae but the constant has been him. When are the hawks going to realize the problem may not be everyone else but Trae himself.

Never, because he isn't inherently the problem. Putting no help around him and asking him to shoulder a volume load too high is the problem. They're actually better than they should be as a result.

His TS% is good but it is held up by the fact he he gets to the line not because he particularly shoots well.

Yes, but that matters only so much. It matters mostly if you put literally no major scoring threats around him to balance that out, primarily. Kind of like with Harden. Guys need help, that's how it works. You don't provide help, then you don't win. Period.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. While you believe his teammates are the problem, I believe Trae is the problem (but when thinking about it could probably be both). For example, in the first game of the season while his teammates played well it was Trae’s inefficiency that cost the hawks the game.

Unless you put Trae next to a true superstar, where he is not the guy, I truly don’t think a team should build around him.