Markelle Fultz

[Skybox]

He's got a team high +23 over the two games. It may have not been the way we want to see it, but the "fine" has been "good enough".

Hall of Famer Alec Burks leading the league with +37, "All Efficiency" PG WestBeast not far behind at +30

Cool. What's that have to do with our team?

It means you can throw +/- completely out the window as a means of defending an ineffectual player. His high +/- is kind of a Forrest Gump effect of being in the right place at the right time

[RichCollab]

We are two games in and the Fultz hate is at all time high. Fultz contributes helped lead to wins.

We have the two players that we want to be superstars already.

I don’t see value to chase at this point.

Has Donovan’s Mitchell improved the Cavs overall? I feel like he takes away from other players to get his and wasn’t a piece that moved the Cavs forward.

Fultz again has positive impact to the team. I don’t see us stagnant and just to chase something greener can lead to being stagnant.

Fultz is here all year no doubt and the starter unless we lose 10 games in a row.

[Bensational]

I honestly don't feel like Fultz is dragging us down...He does a lot of the "connective tissue" stuff that people laud here. It's more like someone who is a better fit could lift us up.

Why is all of the pressure to lift the team up on Fultz or someone external? Between Paolo and Franz we should have enough firepower. Paolo is averaging 9fgas the last 2 games and you want to dilute that further?

I don't get the last part...our starting PG has 8 assists in 2 games. That's very weak, IMO, for a guy who doesn't score a lot.

Fultz had 5 or 6 assists in the first half against Portland. He would generate a lot more if he were the full time solo playmaker, but he shares the ball with Franz and Paolo every other possession.

The Suggs/Fultz backcourt has been a wrecking ball on defense and that has been a major part of the team’s identity and success. When Fultz is running point everyone eats and things click. I think it will be a challenge to find someone who can replace what he’s doing well whilst adding what he isn’t doing. Black with a 3pt shot would do it. A guy like Caruso would be a good fit, but he doesn’t bring an offensive boost.

I genuinely think some people’s wants to replace Fultz with a star is actually them not being satisfied with the statistical impact of Paolo and Franz. If they were both averaging 25+ then I don’t think people sweat the statistical production of other players as much. That’s not a knock on them, but I think it shapes the context of people’s expectations for other players.

[Skybox]

If my coworkers said "Great job Skybox - we appreciate the bonuses you earned for us, keep up the good work. We'll be here by the water cooler if you need us"...I'd say "F you guys"

[Bensational]

If my coworkers said "Great job Skybox - we appreciate the bonuses you earned for us, keep up the good work. We'll be here by the water cooler if you need us"...I'd say "F you guys"

Lol. What are we supposed to do with this narcissistic fantasy?

[Skybox]

If my coworkers said "Great job Skybox - we appreciate the bonuses you earned for us, keep up the good work. We'll be here by the water cooler if you need us"...I'd say "F you guys"

Lol. What are we supposed to do with this narcissistic fantasy?

I guess we could apply it to the Forum...that would make you the Fultz of the group

[Knightro]

I genuinely think some people’s wants to replace Fultz with a star is actually them not being satisfied with the statistical impact of Paolo and Franz. If they were both averaging 25+ then I don’t think people sweat the statistical production of other players as much. That’s not a knock on them, but I think it shapes the context of people’s expectations for other players.

The goal should always be to have the most talented and best fitting team possible.

"If Player X and Y become the A+ versions of themselves, Player Z's deficiencies become acceptable" is not a reasonable team building strategy.

[Bensational]

If my coworkers said "Great job Skybox - we appreciate the bonuses you earned for us, keep up the good work. We'll be here by the water cooler if you need us"...I'd say "F you guys"

Lol. What are we supposed to do with this narcissistic fantasy?

I guess we could apply it to the Forum...that would make you the Fultz of the group

I’ll be happy to assist, just like Fultz.

[Skybox]

I genuinely think some people’s wants to replace Fultz with a star is actually them not being satisfied with the statistical impact of Paolo and Franz. If they were both averaging 25+ then I don’t think people sweat the statistical production of other players as much. That’s not a knock on them, but I think it shapes the context of people’s expectations for other players.

The goal should always be to have the most talented and best fitting team possible.

"If Player X and Y become the A+ versions of themselves, Player Z's deficiencies become acceptable" is not a reasonable team building strategy.

This thread has gotten to the point that your post is "and-1" worthy and it seems about as obvious as anything could be.

Like 3>2.

Good > just okay

[Bensational]

I genuinely think some people’s wants to replace Fultz with a star is actually them not being satisfied with the statistical impact of Paolo and Franz. If they were both averaging 25+ then I don’t think people sweat the statistical production of other players as much. That’s not a knock on them, but I think it shapes the context of people’s expectations for other players.

The goal should always be to have the most talented and best fitting team possible.

"If Player X and Y become the A+ versions of themselves, Player Z's deficiencies become acceptable" is not a reasonable team building strategy.

I’m not talking about strategy, I’m talking about perception. Neither of our top 2 guys currently post the kind of numbers of a #1 option on most other teams. So that makes the absence of other big numbers more glaring.

“Best fit” at this point is a very subjective and debatable thing, and you’re making it a bigger point of emphasis than the team’s ultimate goal: “win games” - which it’s currently doing.

[Rainwater]

We are two games in and the Fultz hate is at all time high. Fultz contributes helped lead to wins.

We have the two players that we want to be superstars already.

I don’t see value to chase at this point.

Has Donovan’s Mitchell improved the Cavs overall? I feel like he takes away from other players to get his and wasn’t a piece that moved the Cavs forward.

Fultz again has positive impact to the team. I don’t see us stagnant and just to chase something greener can lead to being stagnant.

Fultz is here all year no doubt and the starter unless we lose 10 games in a row.

This is just a ridiculous statement. No one hates Fultz, I am pretty certain most would say he should be the current starter. Most just question his fit with this team going into the future and could they fulfill their full potential with him.

[Rainwater]

Hall of Famer Alec Burks leading the league with +37, "All Efficiency" PG WestBeast not far behind at +30

Cool. What's that have to do with our team?

It means you can throw +/- completely out the window as a means of defending an ineffectual player. His high +/- is kind of a Forrest Gump effect of being in the right place at the right time

The classic issue with the +/- system.

[Audi]

Hall of Famer Alec Burks leading the league with +37, "All Efficiency" PG WestBeast not far behind at +30

Cool. What's that have to do with our team?

It means you can throw +/- completely out the window as a means of defending an ineffectual player. His high +/- is kind of a Forrest Gump effect of being in the right place at the right time

It’s obviously a flawed stat but it can still be a fair indicator of what happened when they were on the floor. Westbrook’s +30 was in a 12 pt win over of POR where he put up 11-5-13. I wouldn’t call his presence “ineffectual” here. To contrast, in the close loss against Utah he was a -4 on 4-9-4 with 5 TOs and air balled the final shot. Ineffectual (positively anyway) seems applicable.

Fultz has had a +12 and a +11 in these first two games. I wouldn’t call him ineffectual in those games. Not a +30 but not a -4 either. Really, “fine” is just about right.

[Skybox]

Cool. What's that have to do with our team?

It means you can throw +/- completely out the window as a means of defending an ineffectual player. His high +/- is kind of a Forrest Gump effect of being in the right place at the right time

It’s obviously a flawed stat but it can still be a fair indicator of what happened when they were on the floor. Westbrook’s +30 was in a 12 pt win over of POR where he put up 11-5-13. I wouldn’t call his presence “ineffectual” here. To contrast, in the close loss against Utah he was a -4 on 4-9-4 with 5 TOs and air balled the final shot. Ineffectual (positively anyway) seems applicable.

Fultz has had a +12 and a +11 in these first two games. I wouldn’t call him ineffectual in those games. Not a +30 but not a -4 either. Really, “fine” is just about right.

I DO like +/- generally speaking….just too early to use it as it was suggested.

Also, I love Westbrook…even though he’s also a non-shooter, he imposes his will on the game whenever he’s out there…sort of like Suggs (for better or worse at times). I definitely wasn’t calling Westbrook ineffectual…he’s always impactful-win or lose

This will put me deep in the Fultz doghouse, but I’d much rather have the WestBeast running point…his insane competitive ferocity is contagious. I’ll never disavow what Oladipo said about his work ethic and example being the thing that flipped Vic’s switch and that Vic would never have become the All-Star level competitor in ORL’s (at the time) environment

[Skybox]

Cool. What's that have to do with our team?

It means you can throw +/- completely out the window as a means of defending an ineffectual player. His high +/- is kind of a Forrest Gump effect of being in the right place at the right time

It’s obviously a flawed stat but it can still be a fair indicator of what happened when they were on the floor. Westbrook’s +30 was in a 12 pt win over of POR where he put up 11-5-13. I wouldn’t call his presence “ineffectual” here. To contrast, in the close loss against Utah he was a -4 on 4-9-4 with 5 TOs and air balled the final shot. Ineffectual (positively anyway) seems applicable.

Fultz has had a +12 and a +11 in these first two games. I wouldn’t call him ineffectual in those games. Not a +30 but not a -4 either. Really, “fine” is just about right.

I actually think I don’t disagree with your takes on Fultz. It’s kind of funny how much I’m considered a ‘hater’… I think it’s more a matter of how some of us see the role of PG on this team and what degree of urgency is preferred to get to the next level.

I agree that Fultz is “fine”. I believe (?) most agree that Fultz, at present level, isn’t taking us anywhere significant, no matter how much Paolo & Franz progress. That doesn’t mean he’s bad or that anyone hates him.

Other than knucklehead fanboys that think he’s a GREAT PG as is, the issues that are mostly divisive are…
- will he miraculously start shooting 3’s & draw fouls effectively like a competitive PG should in the modern NBA? When?
- what does ORL need from its backcourt, given its frontcourt players…to defer & support or contribute equally (or closer to)?
- how wise is it to give him a new sizable contract? This is a timeline question for Franz & Paolo mostly- are they ready soon or in 2030? Is it acceptable to waste time either way? Does it hinder F&P’s own development?
…sub-concern - do you believe the new cap rules are significant, especially for small market teams, or kind of like the Easter Bunny?
- is Suggs’ defense and offensive potential significant enough to accommodate his weaknesses (with a more complementary PG)?
- is there ANY contract amount or length that makes sense for this player on this team? (He either fits or doesn’t fit, regardless of $$)
- will he have trade value with his current salary or higher? Could he become a better looking Bertans-level albatross?

Non-divisive issues that still fill this thread…
- is he a great guy, loved by his teammates? Yes
- does he work hard? Yes, but so do I, doesn’t matter
- has he improved? Yes, but not enough- he was almost out of the NBA, gigantic draft bust now up to mediocre
- were his physical issues real or imaginary? I say real, but it doesn’t matter- here we are
- is he still “just back from injury” and that’s delayed his progress? No, he’s physically awesome, he is who he is as a player
- is he an excellent ball handler? Yes, I love watching him calmly move through traffic
- is he a good defender? Yes, in recent seasons, Mose has him impactful, but not lockdown or elite
- is he physical and athletic, even among NBA peers? Yes, but needs to use his size & strength to effect more often
- is he a strong & efficient finisher at the rim & midrange? Yes, but should draw fouls and be more aggressive, imo

[byeganyo]

Frankly, i'm not shocked, but still somehow disappointed he doesnt show some kind of improvement in his 3pt shooting in a contract year. Those are the months he is literally fighting for tens of millions $, he is supposed to be his best version and we can see he is trying - there is a new haircut and more effort on defense, but no FT or 3PT made in the first two games. Lets bury the idea of Fultz as a modern PG, but maybe lets wait before deciding if there is a role for him on the team.

[G-Heel]

Biggest issue people have with Markelle is his shooting and how it doesn't fit with Franz and Paolo. I agree, but then Magic drafted AB who also can't shoot. Maybe Magic will address the shooting next summer, but for now, we'll just have to hope Markelle helps us win.

[Skin]

Can't bash on Fultz until the Magic start losing. Facts.

[pepe1991]

Is thread being closed after 100 pages? I can speed up process if that means new one won't be open

[Bakomagic]

Definitely not a Fultz Hater as I appreciate his playmaking, defensive abilities and leadership, but I have been disappointed that he has not shooting that jump shot 3 we saw at the end of last year.

He is shooting the ugly set shot and missing badly, I thought he talked about committing to taking the other shot? Still only two games in but if he is going to continue to lack confidence I’d rather not have him go to he next year as our starting PG.