2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[OhayoKD]

First, I would disagree with the assessment that Giannis has been as effective of a scorer as Dame, but understand the argument.

Second, when you object to Giannis becoming more of a screener, but also acknowledge that something has to change to make use of Dame, my question to you would be: What's the sweet spot you're hoping to hit?

I don't really care about the 1st point as it relates to this. Even if I concede Dame is a better scorer, Giannis has been a dominant one in his own right. So I'm not giving all that up and all the pressure he puts on defenses to have him play a more traditional big man role.

There is room for both of them to have plenty of time on ball. Just like we seen with other star duos throughout the years. Dame coming in doesn't mean Giannis should now just focus on defense and traditional big man offensive play. We are talking about the 2nd best player in the world in his absolute prime being reduced to that? No, that definitely isn't the right answer.

But I do this board has been very dismissive of Giannis as an offensive force for years now and best I can figure its simply because he doesn't shoot well. Which feels incredibly reductive but nobody has ever been able to give any other reason(mostly they don't bother to give one at all I think because they know results wise they don't have much to go with here...)

The board that ranked Giannis 13th all-time in terms of Peaks is dismissive of Giannis' offense?

Giannis ranking 13th isn't unusually high relative to how he is generally percieved

[OhayoKD]

Wemby's looking alot better than al hoford

[MyUniBroDavis]

Do you think Giannis is a better scorer than Dame? Better passer?

He's been at least as effective of a scorer over a long period time of time, yes. And I think he puts more pressure on defenses than Dame does.

Does Dame have more scoring/passing skill? Of course he does.

I'm not saying trade for Dame and change nothing. I am saying if you have prime Giannis, don't go away from a guy defenses have had few answers for.

Okay, so there are two things here:

First, I would disagree with the assessment that Giannis has been as effective of a scorer as Dame, but understand the argument.

Second, when you object to Giannis becoming more of a screener, but also acknowledge that something has to change to make use of Dame, my question to you would be: What's the sweet spot you're hoping to hit?

In theory I could see an argument for Dame as an off-ball scorer, but in practice that's not how Dame's built his skillset. So if you acquired Dame with the intent of making use of Dame's offensive strengths, how are imagining that looks like with he and Giannis? Like are you thinking of them as a pick & roll duo with Giannis either being the finisher or the passer and using that as the main half-court threat?

Honestly it’s not even a knock on Giannis or anything

I think “make giannis a screener and finisher” is like, pushing it way too far, but there’s just a synergy that could be there with Dame, him, and Brook/Portis


Dame defensively can be pretty crappy but offensively regardless of how good you think Giannis is thinking it makes more sense for Dame to run the offense is pretty fair.

On ball, Dame and Curry at this point is a serious discussion, it’s not hard to make the case for Dame being the best pick and roll ball handler in the NBA, not sure if I’d make it but it’s there

Bucks aren’t gonna get all they can out of their roster, it feels like the offense is gonna be kind of stupid, but potential wise this team really should win the title lol (not saying they will)

[Statlanta]

I’m curious to see the off-on numbers to see if Lillard numbers are better much like Jrue’s were when he joined

[itsxtray]

Really impressed with Chet and these young bigs in recent years coming in already good to very good on defense. I remember always hearing it takes a while for bigs to figure it out on that end but we've had some great young defenders making an immediate impact.

[Peregrine01]

Watching this first week of games and I just realized how ridiculous the level of guard talent out there right now. Has guard play ever been better? I really doubt it.

You got the older dudes like Steph and Dame who are still elite. Then you got the guys who are on the verge of MVP consideration for the first time like Luka, SGA and Booker. And then you got a whole host of dudes that can vie for all-NBA consideration like Fox, Mitchell, Jaylen Brown, Beal, Haliburton, Brunson and Murray.

And this isn't even mentioning Kyrie, Trae, Lavine and Garland or guys like Harden and Ja who aren't playing right now. The talent depth is just absolutely insane.

[Colbinii]

I don't really care about the 1st point as it relates to this. Even if I concede Dame is a better scorer, Giannis has been a dominant one in his own right. So I'm not giving all that up and all the pressure he puts on defenses to have him play a more traditional big man role.

There is room for both of them to have plenty of time on ball. Just like we seen with other star duos throughout the years. Dame coming in doesn't mean Giannis should now just focus on defense and traditional big man offensive play. We are talking about the 2nd best player in the world in his absolute prime being reduced to that? No, that definitely isn't the right answer.

But I do this board has been very dismissive of Giannis as an offensive force for years now and best I can figure its simply because he doesn't shoot well. Which feels incredibly reductive but nobody has ever been able to give any other reason(mostly they don't bother to give one at all I think because they know results wise they don't have much to go with here...)

The board that ranked Giannis 13th all-time in terms of Peaks is dismissive of Giannis' offense?

Giannis ranking 13th isn't unusually high relative to how he is generally percieved

Generally? I don't really follow any other basketball circles. Are there other ones with indepth analysis that comfortably place him within the Top 10?

I could see it when accounting for Era and not focusing on In-Era play but rather "what is this players peak in 202X".

[OhayoKD]

The board that ranked Giannis 13th all-time in terms of Peaks is dismissive of Giannis' offense?

Giannis ranking 13th isn't unusually high relative to how he is generally percieved

Generally? I don't really follow any other basketball circles. Are there other ones with indepth analysis that comfortably place him within the Top 10?

I could see it when accounting for Era and not focusing on In-Era play but rather "what is this players peak in 202X".

if we're just talking peak?

Frankly, even for career plenty have him top 15 already

As far as sound argumentation, "comfortably inside the top 10" probably requires a "in a vacuum" approach or "the absolute value of bigs is higher" caveat. but I think right outside is pretty easy anyway

[Clyde Frazier]

Watch on YouTube

He didn't shoot well, but I don't know when I'm gonna stop marveling at the way this guy moves. This season is off to an awesome start!

[rk2023]

Watch on YouTube

He didn't shoot well, but I don't know when I'm gonna stop marveling at the way this guy moves. This season is off to an awesome start!

It's a marathon rather than a sprint for a 19 year old. Certainly will be rougher spurts throughout the year. With that in mind, I was most impressed from a mental standpoint regarding Wemby yesterday. Despite the minutes restriction and struggling in Q1-3, I didn't see him sulking / pouting but did see a bounce-back on the court. Huge fan of the process to get downhill and counter with the mid-range down the stretch (not to mention the defense which played a part in the Spurs sealing the deal as well).

[rk2023]

Really impressed with Chet and these young bigs in recent years coming in already good to very good on defense. I remember always hearing it takes a while for bigs to figure it out on that end but we've had some great young defenders making an immediate impact.

I think it will only continue moving forward.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Outside]

Watch on YouTube

He didn't shoot well, but I don't know when I'm gonna stop marveling at the way this guy moves. This season is off to an awesome start!

It's a marathon rather than a sprint for a 19 year old. Certainly will be rougher spurts throughout the year. With that in mind, I was most impressed from a mental standpoint regarding Wemby yesterday. Despite the minutes restriction and struggling in Q1-3, I didn't see him sulking / pouting but did see a bounce-back on the court. Huge fan of the process to get downhill and counter with the mid-range down the stretch (not to mention the defense which played a part in the Spurs sealing the deal as well).

I've been suitably impressed by Wemby, but we need to keep the bolded part in mind. Maybe he's the exception, but rookies have never faced anything like an 82-game season against NBA competition.

After the Warriors-Kings game, Steph was asked about the stretch GS has to start the season with seven of eight on the road after the home opener against Phoenix. He remarked about how beating the Kings meant winning their first road game, as compared to last season when they lost their first nine road games and were bad on the road all season. But then he said it's only two games and there's 80 more to go, and he laughed.

Vets know how long the season is. It truly is a marathon, physically, mentally, emotionally. Teams will figure out ways to deal with him. He'll have to face adjustments. Players will figure out that step-back jumpers and other go-to moves that work against most opponents won't work against him. They're going to attack him, get physical with him, get into his body, set back screens and pin downs. He's really good and cartoonishly long so it's not as if he's going to suck, but teams will figure out some things, and all that stuff will take a toll.

We'll see how Wemby holds up. He does have a huge advantage with Pop as his coach though.

[rk2023]

Shai, Mitchell, and Booker (granted the latter sat out a game) have started the season guns a-blaze. I think Luka should be a shoe in for one of the first team selections (unsure how the position-less thing works, but I think it’ll be worked around when the teams are finalized). At that, can never count out Steph - but I think one of the other three spots will be one of them. My bets’ on Shai right now. He’s looked a better, more proactive passer in OKC’s first two games. Already such a flashy, crafty player at 25.

[cpower]

Shai, Mitchell, and Booker (granted the latter sat out a game) have started the season guns a-blaze. I think Luka should be a shoe in for one of the first team selections (unsure how the position-less thing works, but I think it’ll be worked around when the teams are finalized). At that, can never count out Steph - but I think one of the other three spots will be one of them. My bets’ on Shai right now. He’s looked a better, more proactive passer in OKC’s first two games. Already such a flashy, crafty player at 25.

still too early to tell, record will matter. Luka is amazing but he is not making 50% of his threes for the entire season

[rk2023]

Shai, Mitchell, and Booker (granted the latter sat out a game) have started the season guns a-blaze. I think Luka should be a shoe in for one of the first team selections (unsure how the position-less thing works, but I think it’ll be worked around when the teams are finalized). At that, can never count out Steph - but I think one of the other three spots will be one of them. My bets’ on Shai right now. He’s looked a better, more proactive passer in OKC’s first two games. Already such a flashy, crafty player at 25.

still too early to tell, record will matter. Luka is amazing but he is not making 50% of his threes for the entire season

Yea, which would drop his True Shooting % (assuming median regression, using his season before injury as guesstimate) to a point or so over 60% - still rather impressive given his shot diet. Agree regarding that it’s too early to tell, but this is just out of curiosity. Those 5 and Dame are comfortably the best guards in the NBA imo, so I’ll be very intrigued to see how the all-NBA process plays out for them

[The-Power]

Couple more thoughts on last night's games:

– SGA is a blast to watch. This man is so crafty, it's insane. The whole OKC team is fun, and last night it was Chet's turn to be the Batman. Can't wait to witness their development into a contender.

– I would not have expected it, but Detroit could be fun to watch. They seem to really buy into playing defense early on, and particularly Hayes, Thompson and Duren are a fun trio on that end. Ivey seems to also have picked it up. I hope this continues and the team can develop a defensive identify (they'll need it, too, because their offense is so flawed).

– Luka is starting this season on a mission. Donovan Mitchell is also fun to watch when he's on – he can score with the best of them when he's on.

– The young talent in the league is awesome and I can't wait to see more of them breaking out. The league as a whole is in good hands. So many older superstars are still playing at an incredibly high level, we have some ATG players in their primes and we have a bunch of early-prime players potentially evolving into MVP-level players in addition to the young guns. Awesome.

– If not your Klay's historical achievements, Moody should be a starter. Such a veteran player already and fits the team like a glove. I'd also choose him over Kuminga if I had to.

– I love the scrappy hustle players at work early in the season. Josh Green, Ausar Thompson, Josh Okogie, Jalen Suggs, Isaac Okoro and many more. They make the games so much more fun to watch because they truly leave it all out there on the court compensating for their offensive limitations.

[tsherkin]

– SGA is a blast to watch. This man is so crafty, it's insane. The whole OKC team is fun, and last night it was Chet's turn to be the Batman. Can't wait to witness their development into a contender.

Abbbsolutely. He's fun. Was wildly successful last year as well. Appears to be carrying that forward.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Shai, Mitchell, and Booker (granted the latter sat out a game) have started the season guns a-blaze. I think Luka should be a shoe in for one of the first team selections (unsure how the position-less thing works, but I think it’ll be worked around when the teams are finalized). At that, can never count out Steph - but I think one of the other three spots will be one of them. My bets’ on Shai right now. He’s looked a better, more proactive passer in OKC’s first two games. Already such a flashy, crafty player at 25.

Honestly, I feel more uncertain about All-NBA teams this year than ever before because of the games requirement. One random, untimely injury, and that can lead you missing games. Luka is coming into this season with a calf injury and that injury can linger if not rested at times.

I can see a world where less over half of the people who make all-nba this year, aren't actual top 15 guys.

[Colbinii]

I can see a world where less over half of the people who make all-nba this year, aren't actual top 15 guys.

That's true every year.

[The-Power]

Now that the season has started and we could gain some first impressions, I thought it could be fun to talk about the players and other persons you expect to be candidates for the annual awards once the season ends.

Obviously all of that is still just speculation, but if you had to come up with a list of likely candidates for the eventual ballots – who would be on them? Feel free to list as many players as you want as long as you believe that they have a very realistic chance to end up on the ballot.

1. POY
2. OPOY
3. DPOY
4. ROY
5. 6MOY
6. MIP
7. COY
8. EOY

And bonus categories:

9. BPOY (Breakout player of the year, for a player who made the leap to stardom or superstardom)
10. CPOY (Comeback player of the year, for a player who recovered from (a) subpar season(s))
11. HPOY (Hustle player of the year, who made the most out if his opportunities due to sheer his energy and hustle)

I hope I didn't forget about a category.