Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Crowder Out 8 Weeks

[Ayt]

One huge thing I haven't seen mentioned that Giannis brought up in his post game interview is that he wants to work on being a one on one defender against the best players all year so that he's ready for the playoffs. Obviously, you want him to be free to roam a lot of the time, but he's also capable of being an excellent on the ball defender. That is something Bud really didn't ask him to do all that often, and he also often looked a bit unprepared for it at times when he was in that situation which led to fouls. We saw an example last year when Bud could have put Giannis on Butler to slow him down.

He mentioned that he and Griff talked about him doing that throughout the season, and that Giannis is ready whenever AG thinks it is appropriate. We saw it in game 1 when AG put Giannis on Embiid in the second half. It would be huge if Giannis could get more comfortable in those situations so he doesn't get into foul trouble. He could also use more experience getting used to being in one on one lockdown mode while also playing good off the ball defense.

I'd say that is one of the big things to watch all year with this team and could ultimately be the thing that puts them over the hump in the playoffs because the defense is the thing that could potentially hold this team back from winning a ring.

[blazza18]

There is a lot of work for Giannis to be consistently relied on to defend stars one on one all the time. Happen for him to show he can eventually do it but I think atm it's just another way for him to get into foul trouble.

[Ayt]

There is a lot of work for Giannis to be consistently relied on to defend stars one on one all the time. Happen for him to show he can eventually do it but I think atm it's just another way for him to get into foul trouble.

They'll never do it all the time, but it has always been something he needed to work on and it is something Bud largely ignored.

[blazza18]

There is a lot of work for Giannis to be consistently relied on to defend stars one on one all the time. Happen for him to show he can eventually do it but I think atm it's just another way for him to get into foul trouble.

They'll never do it all the time, but it has always been something he needed to work on and it is something Bud largely ignored.

Not sure if Bud ignored it exactly. He should've done it a bit more but he knew Giannis' limitations.

[GoldenAntlers]

If the move is Caruso, then it has to be Pat instead of Bobby. Because otherwise you’re signing up for giving RoLo meaningful minutes.

Plus, if you get Caruso, even if you put him in the LAL plan and only play him 20mpg, those are basically Pat’s minutes. You’re not playing those two together.

I am imagining Bobby and Caruso getting amped at the same time.

[soxperry]

I just want to point out that Bud isnt a moron and knows basketball on a level that 99.9% of us cant fathom. I get uneasy with the mindset that Griffin can just walk in and fix all these things that we as ignorant armchair coaches feel bud was terrible at. Its not that simple. We will learn that.

[crowhead76]

Pat + second for Thybulle

• almost identical contracts
• proven fit next to Lillard
• we get the wing defender we need
• they get a better floor spacer next to Scoot
• fwiw, we were reportedly interested in Thybulle last season

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[skones]

There is a lot of work for Giannis to be consistently relied on to defend stars one on one all the time. Happen for him to show he can eventually do it but I think atm it's just another way for him to get into foul trouble.

They'll never do it all the time, but it has always been something he needed to work on and it is something Bud largely ignored.

Not sure if Bud ignored it exactly. He should've done it a bit more but he knew Giannis' limitations.

Agree with this. There are two sides to the Bud coin. Schematically when it came to his rigidity, sure a weakness, but he's long put players in a position that cater to strengths. Giannis has always been very rigid at the hips on the perimeter and it shows in his lack of lateral quickness. I think it's worth putting him in positions to diversify looks when an opposing player is hot, but I don't think he's anywhere near the perimeter defender a lot of folks believe he is.

At the end of the day, Jrue was the best option on our squad to dog Jimmy. Jimmy was just better. An in the swing of things and better shape Jae plays in that situation, while AJJ and Marjon offer a lot more in the way of wing athletes than we really had at our disposal last year.

[tedbrogen]

Jrue was clearly not the best option. The result clearly shows that. Wes did well on him In the limited chances he got. Giannis shut down Jimmy in 2021. Stupidly shut down.

And if you don’t believe Wes or Giannis would have done any better, then you HAVE to run a double at Jimmy every time.

You can’t just let one guy end your season.

[Ayt]

They'll never do it all the time, but it has always been something he needed to work on and it is something Bud largely ignored.

Not sure if Bud ignored it exactly. He should've done it a bit more but he knew Giannis' limitations.

Agree with this. There are two sides to the Bud coin. Schematically when it came to his rigidity, sure a weakness, but he's long put players in a position that cater to strengths. Giannis has always been very rigid at the hips on the perimeter and it shows in his lack of lateral quickness. I think it's worth putting him in positions to diversify looks when an opposing player is hot, but I don't think he's anywhere near the perimeter defender a lot of folks believe he is.

At the end of the day, Jrue was the best option on our squad to dog Jimmy. Jimmy was just better. An in the swing of things and better shape Jae plays in that situation, while AJJ and Marjon offer a lot more in the way of wing athletes than we really had at our disposal last year.

I completely disagree with both of you. Giannis' biggest weakness defensively during his career has been his on ball defense against top flight offensive talent. I don't buy that it is due to physical limitations like "rigid hips." Those "rigid hips" certainly don't show up on his drives to the rim. The complete opposite is true. He's a 7 foot freak that moves like someone that is 6'6". None of his struggles one on one defensively have anything to do with his physical abilities. He's like a bigger Pippen defensively who is one of the best defensive players I've ever seen.

Frankly, he's too aggressive one on one defensively and needs practice to learn how to not be so physical so he doesn't pick up stupid fouls. He's learned a ton of tricks offensively on how to not pick up offensive fouls, but he's learned almost nothing on the defensive end when it comes to not picking up cheap fouls. His usual tactics work against the lesser offensive players he's been asked to defend, but they don't work against the best offensive players in the league. He won a DPOY by being a phenomenal off the ball defender, but Bud both didn't challenge him nor give him the opportunity to be a lock down on the ball defender.

Bud always shied away from using Giannis as a one on one stopper, even during the regular season when it was essentially practice for the playoffs. I'm hoping that what Giannis talked about after the game is true and that he's given tough defensive assignments every night, even if for just for 5-10 minutes, so he can work on his one on one defense against the best offensive players in the league. With the new look Bucks, he's going to need to defend at a higher level one on one than he has in the past.

Against a team like the Celtics in the playoffs, he's going to need to be able to defend Tatum at a high level without committing stupid fouls. He could also be used as a stopper against Brown if he starts going off against smaller defenders. Against Miami, you obviously have JButt and, potentially, Bam. Philly has Embiid. Nearly every team in the league has a top flight offensive talent Giannis could be asked to shut down.

The Bucks forced 4 straight turnovers immediately after Giannis switched onto Embiid one on one in the 3rd quarter. Giannis was playing straight up and the other defenders weren't helping. The Philly offense looked lost. Unfortunately, Giannis stupidly picked up his 4th foul by being a bit too aggressive on an Embiid drive. That is exactly why Giannis needs practice, so he doesn't pick up cheap, stupid fouls. If Giannis can learn to stay foul free against elite talent like Embiid, that unlocks a completely new level for the team as a whole.

Frankly, Giannis' lack of on ball defense has been a huge problem for most of his career. There wasn't a single season in the entire Bud era where you could put Giannis on an elite offensive player for an extended period of time and expect him to stay out of foul trouble. This current iteration of the Bucks will almost certainly require him to play elite on ball defense if they are going to win a title. That is exactly why Giannis has talked to Griff about guarding the best players in the league every night. Theoretically, Giannis should also have more energy to expend on that end with the addition of Dame.

Learning how to be an elite one on one defender is one of the most important things he can learn at his age and level of experience. He's already been a DPOY as an off the ball defender. Now he needs to learn how to be a lockdown defender one on one. He's such a gifted athlete, that is something he can learn over the course of a season if a coach is willing to put him to the test.

The Hawks likely don't have anyone that it would make sense for him to guard as a one on one defender, but I'd love to see him get some minutes on JButt on Monday night against the Heat. If Butt isn't cooking, maybe he'll spend some time on Bam instead. Regardless, nearly every game he needs to be tasked with guarding elite offensive talent outside of point guards and small, quick SGs.

[old skool]

I just want to point out that Bud isnt a moron and knows basketball on a level that 99.9% of us cant fathom. I get uneasy with the mindset that Griffin can just walk in and fix all these things that we as ignorant armchair coaches feel bud was terrible at. Its not that simple. We will learn that.

I think you are being a bit generous with 00.1% of us here knowing more about basketball than Budenholzer.

And it's not just the head coach. NBA teams have an entire organization of scouts, video analysts, assistant coaches et al breaking down every player in every game and funneling high level information and strategies to the head coach. These are basketball lifers who live and breathe this stuff every day. Not part time message board posters pining for more playing time for Nate Wolters or Darrington Hobson.

I respect many posters and value their knowledge and perspective on the NBA, but collectively we tend to be a bit full of ourselves when we criticize professional coaches. As if a team would be so much better off if they listened to us, instead of those pros who have been involved with basketball and the NBA for 10, 20 or 30 years.

[slos]

Maybe Portland gets that SPR after all. What about Pat + POR 2024 SRP + useless expiring (RoLo?) for Timelord?

I know that there are health concerns with Williams and he is not a perfect fit for Giannis. But Brook is only getting older and Bobby’s time at C in the playoffs against Embiid/Jokic/Porzingis/Bam etc will be ugly. I would prefer having another tough body for these assignments instead of throwing Giannis there.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for it to be Bobby instead of Pat?

No. Bucks backup “bigs” are currently Crowder/Portis which is a relatively small combo. On top of that you don’t know if you can rely on Bobby in certain matchups and Jae you don’t know if you can rely at all come playoff time. On the other hand a Bobby/Timelord combo provides you different looks for any matchup.

Pat is the guy I’m looking at for salary matching if I had to choose. You have at wings Marjon/AJJ waiting for minutes. I trust them more than Livingston who would benefit from a Bobby trade.

[Fotis St]

I just want to point out that Bud isnt a moron and knows basketball on a level that 99.9% of us cant fathom. I get uneasy with the mindset that Griffin can just walk in and fix all these things that we as ignorant armchair coaches feel bud was terrible at. Its not that simple. We will learn that.

I am on that 0.1% ... that is 1/1000 ... not sure how many posters Bucks realgm has, I guess 2000 is a reach , so I guess there is one more spot for the rest of you.

Now, to the topic mentioned above about Giannis usage on D.... I know Giannis wants to guard some superstars ... So Lillard new coach, new offense, new defense ... I see 2 added foul trouble threats...

1. Giannis guarding superstars
2. Giannis setting picks for Dame on their pick n roll plays.

I have been b@%$ng about Giannis not setting actual screens at all BUT as a 2nd thought, it might be kinda OK , if it saves him from foul trouble. You all saw Kelly Umbre Jr flopping the moment Brook touched him at the screen on Lillard at the end of the 4th quarter. Opponents are going to do that to Giannis too. They will flop the hell out in order to get Giannis in foul trouble.

So to sum it up ... Yes , Bud was stupidly stubborn, BUT Giannis is extremely careless and gets in foul trouble super easy. He still plays with his heart, not using his mind alot. Same goes with Thanasis, I think it is not fixable. Even at their age I think the game doesn't slow down on D. Giannis needs to stop reaching with his gigantic hands... opponents just pull their arms under his hand and gain fouls. I would suggest Giannis stop reaching and just try to block shots.

[Milbucks96]

Giannis hasn’t been a wing defender since about 2016. He just has a hard time on the perimeter because he’s a big. Doesn’t hurt to throw him on some guys every once in a while but I think he would struggle to stay in front of most wings. Guys like Brown and Tatum would still score efficiently with Giannis on them while we’ll lose his rim protection.

[TroyD92]

Fotis turning into a Giannis critic is not the future I thought I'd be living in.

[Prez]

Giannis only makes sense on perimeter players that aren’t dangerous off the dribble 3PT shooters or are at least slower to get their looks off the dribble imo. Wings like Tatum, Booker, Luka, etc will just work around screens and get whatever looks they want because Giannis is just too damn big to effectively navigate around them. Giannis was able to shut down Jimmy in ‘21 because Jimmy *usually* can’t punish teams from 3 off the dribble and he has zero chance of outmuscling Giannis inside the 3 the way he could to Jrue. Giannis on ball will usually work against perimeter players like Jimmy, Jaylen, Ingram, possibly even LeBron these days but outside of that I’d still use him as a roamer. I do like that he’ll take on star bigs though. I’m very interested to see what he can do against Jokic.

[Prez]

I wonder if we’ll have him guarding Jrue against the Celtics, basically daring Jrue to (try to) cook lol. Then you got Khris on Brown, Brook on KP, Dame on White, and hopefully MarJon or Dre on Tatum which frankly I think is better than the options we had previous seasons.

[Fotis St]

Fotis turning into a Giannis critic is not the future I thought I'd be living in.

Giannis changed his trajectory, not me

From improving every year to becoming Shaq 2.0 at the FT line

From being focused on basketball to being an owner of team, companies an entrepreneur

From having a Greek Flag 1st and Nigerian 2nd to having Nigerian 1st , Greek 2nd

From participating to National Tournaments with the Greek NT , to skipping by clearing his knee late, just before the tournament and while Greek NT was playing he was kicking a football (soccer) in Miami doing the Ronaldo siu celebration.

He is getting old and declining and I am getting old and my patience is declining too.

I support him and the Bucks but he should pay more attention to improving himself. He says all the nice casual things on interviews and then bricks a 3 and a long 2, at the 4th with Dame next to him. My standards for him were and are very high. I believe he can return to his more focused version.

[GoldenAntlers]

Maybe wait until after he peaks to talk about his decline.

[Bucksmaniac]

Maybe wait until after he peaks to talk about his decline.

I’m with those who say he’s nearing the end of his peak due to his best attributes being associated with his athleticism and physical traits. Hopefully he somehow becomes a significantly better shooter the next few years, or changes his game owing to a better basketball IQ.