Who Would You Rather Have: Jalen Duren Or Alperen Sengun?

[tcheco]

Sengun is a better prospect for non trivial offense(not that Duren is terrible in any sense), but I can see someone prefering duren as a whole too. I will admit I expected a little bit more improvement from Sengun, but it is early into the season still

[hyper316]

I don't think a modern NBA team can work without a good paint protector at C. So I think Duren. Though I also think you need some semblance of a shot.

So you think Jokic is a good painter protector?

[ConSarnit]

I realize it's very early but the fact that Duren is averaging 4apg has to be pretty exciting. Athletic freak rim runners usually don't have great passing chops. Actually being able to pass while still only being 19 has to be encouraging. Obviously he's not a Sengun level passer but Duren showing anything in that regard is surprising.

[tmorgan]

I mean, I’ll take my guy, but this is a fair question.

If you’re going to build a winning team around Sengun’s style, you need some specific stuff the Rockets currently lack. Maybe Jabari can be the rim proector and rebounder they need, but I’m not sure I see it with his mindset and playstyle. It’s hard to be a facilitating center with an iso player as your #1 option, too.

Duren is crazy intense and dedicated for a teenager. His off-season workout web series before the draft was ridiculous. You gotta believe a guy that serious about his game is going to continue to develop. Of course, Dwight seemed the same way too until his head got twisted. Fame does that to some people.

[WillyJakkz]

I don't think a modern NBA team can work without a good paint protector at C. So I think Duren. Though I also think you need some semblance of a shot.

So you think Jokic is a good painter protector?

Yeah I'm still trying to dissect that statement considering Jokic has Aaron Gordon to protect the rim so to say because Jokic isn't a rim protector but they just won the title and looks to be possible back 2 back winners after their start to this season.

[7r5ur]

But isn't this like Dwight Howard lite vs Nikola Jokic lite argument?

Both have similar skillsets.

Sengun doesn't belong in the same sentence as Jokic. He can make some nice passes and is a C, that's about where the comparison ends. He's like a disabled homeless man's version of Jokic (no offense to the disabled or homeless)

You're kidding right?

Huge disagree because if we're taking the small 3 game sample size into account Alperen os averaging 6.7 asts! In his 3rd yr playing with quite a few gunners on the team.

And he has 3pt range on top of some handles and skills in the post.

If that's the case Duren shouldn't be put in the same sentence as Dwight Howard.

If you're gonna argue 3 game samples, Duren also has 4 assists per game despite having 17.8% usage vs Sengun's 24.8%. Pretty good for a 19 year old rim runner! Not very Dwight-like there.

But you can't really go much on 3 games.

The thing with Sengun really hinges on his defense. It's a fatal flaw if he doesn't make huge improvements. If he becomes passable there he's gonna be great. Jokic isn't some elite rim protector but he's a very smart defender, which Alpy isn't.. yet. Duren doesn't really have that big flaw at this point.

[Bornstellar]

But isn't this like Dwight Howard lite vs Nikola Jokic lite argument?

Both have similar skillsets.

Sengun doesn't belong in the same sentence as Jokic. He can make some nice passes and is a C, that's about where the comparison ends. He's like a disabled homeless man's version of Jokic (no offense to the disabled or homeless)

You're kidding right?

Huge disagree because if we're taking the small 3 game sample size into account Alperen os averaging 6.7 asts! In his 3rd yr playing with quite a few gunners on the team.

And he has 3pt range on top of some handles and skills in the post.

If that's the case Duren shouldn't be put in the same sentence as Dwight Howard.

Well I agree on the last point. But no offense man I'm just not putting a lot of stock into 3 games. Yes Sengun has shown he can pass and yes he has a decent offensive game but he is a galaxy apart from Jokic when it comes to their offensive games. Not to mention impact. It's one thing to author some nice passes and assists but it's another entirely to completely control the offense

I should clarify I'm not trying to crap on Sengun but Jokic is a two time MVP and reigning champion for a reason. Sengun is nowhere near that discussion

[MoneyTalks41890]

I don't think a modern NBA team can work without a good paint protector at C. So I think Duren. Though I also think you need some semblance of a shot.

So you think Jokic is a good painter protector?

Yeah I'm still trying to dissect that statement considering Jokic has Aaron Gordon to protect the rim so to say because Jokic isn't a rim protector but they just won the title and looks to be possible back 2 back winners after their start to this season.

When you're the best player in the world you get to make some exceptions. It also helps that Joker is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. Sengun hasn't shown real range outside the paint and really shouldn't get compared to Jokic.

[zeebneeb]

Even though I'm a Pistons fan, this is a tough question. Both play with a passion that is tops on my list of player attributes. I place it above all else, even talent, because no matter how talented you are, or how physically gifted you are, without fire, and passion, your nothing more then Andre Drummond. A disappointment.

I like both players, a ton, but, as im from Detroit, and both title teams had player archetypes just like Duren(Ben Wallace, Rodman, e.t.c.) ill go with Duren.

[ItsDanger]

Denver was 40-42 in Jokic 2nd season. They improved further the following season and then an annual .600+ team. If Sengun has any impact like a Jokic then he should be able to lead his team to at least close to .500 in his 3rd season now.

0-3 start. I suggest people remove their biases and observe reality.

[hyper316]

So you think Jokic is a good painter protector?

Yeah I'm still trying to dissect that statement considering Jokic has Aaron Gordon to protect the rim so to say because Jokic isn't a rim protector but they just won the title and looks to be possible back 2 back winners after their start to this season.

When you're the best player in the world you get to make some exceptions. It also helps that Joker is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. Sengun hasn't shown real range outside the paint and really shouldn't get compared to Jokic.

I'm just going by your statement, how true is it for the last 5 years

2023 - Nuggets (No Jokic)
2022 - Warriors (No Looney and Draymond)
2021 - Bucks (Yes Lopez and Giannis)
2020 - Lakers (Yes Davis)
2019 - Raptors (No - Gasol not much shot blocker that year)

[Karate Diop]

Sengun pretty easily for me, and I'm a big Duren fan.

Rockets are a mess but that's not Sengun's fault.

[Drakeem]

I don't think a modern NBA team can work without a good paint protector at C. So I think Duren. Though I also think you need some semblance of a shot.

So... Denver just didn't win the title last year? Not saying Sengun is Jokic, but I mean, it literally just happened.

[og15]

Yeah I'm still trying to dissect that statement considering Jokic has Aaron Gordon to protect the rim so to say because Jokic isn't a rim protector but they just won the title and looks to be possible back 2 back winners after their start to this season.

When you're the best player in the world you get to make some exceptions. It also helps that Joker is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. Sengun hasn't shown real range outside the paint and really shouldn't get compared to Jokic.

I'm just going by your statement, how true is it for the last 5 yeara

2023 - Nuggets (No Jokic)
2022 - Warriors (No Looney and Draymond)
2021 - Bucks (Yes Lopez and Giannis)
2020 - Lakers (Yes Davis)
2019 - Raptors (No - Gasol not much shot blocker)

I agree that yes, we shouldn't make the blanket statement, especially since we just saw Jokic do it. Of course Sengun lacks in height and length in comparison to Jokic, so that doesn't help him.

Raptors also had Ibaka off the bench at around 20 mpg, but Gasol's rim protection was never heavily about shot blocking, but he was definitely still a rim protector, and of course the length of Kawhi and Siakam at the 3/4 fills in. So Raptors even if we conclude Gasol wasn't a rim protector (I disagree) were an exception with their length from the other positions and off the bench.

You definitely have to adjust how you build the rest of the roster, but you also require the guy to be a pretty good perimeter threat to make it work ideally. If not, then you're basically looking for a very unique player to pair him with, like a Rasheed Wallace or a Ibaka, a guy who an protect the rim and maybe anchor your defense, and also space the floor. That's obviously not particularly easy to find.

[moderndarwin]

Sengun is in the David Lee Domantas Sabonis mold. He can score but he’s not really a game changer in any way and extremely hard to build a top tier contender with those sort of guys as your number 2. They can be bottled up or limited by good defenders like a Looney and their one on one play style hampers the free flowing part of an offense. If they aren’t a big plus defender it usually sets a ceiling on what you can achieve.

[El Turco]

Duren if you are looking for a solid high end role player. Sengun can become a main guy/1B type of guy if he develops his outside shot and has the right pieces around him, current Rockets team is built terribly for him.

[Big J]

Post game heavy centers with no defense are dinosaurs in today's NBA. Give me Duren

Jokic?

[Roger Murdock]

I love this question

A few points that make this more complicated

1. As a basketball fan my entire life, I've watched so many guys considered 'bad' defensively turn into great ones. Especially big men with high BBIQ. Brook Lopez used to absolutely stink defensively, now he is a DPOY candidate.

2. White guys with mediocre athleticism are almost always considered worse defenders than they actually are. People treat Jokic like he's a worse paint protector than Amare Stoudemire or Eddy Curry for gods sake, when basically every metric presents him as above average.

3. Senguns biggest advantage is his passing and playmaking, but Duren is a super underrated passer as well. Hes certainly a better passer than the traditional rim running big man.

4. The ultimate tradeoff is versatility vs dominance... Whats more important, being able to matchup and do well overall, or be able to dominate in one specific way? We see guys like Harden, Karl Malone, and Joel Embiid struggle in the post season because they have min/maxed games and they over rely on their strengths and are less versatile and have less counters when they are struggling. Some of the most polished guys in NBA history - LeBron, Curry, Jokic, Kobe, Duncan, will find different ways to impact games





Overall, Sengun currently is a bad defender. But I think theres a pretty reasonable line of sight for him being average or maybe even slightly good. Hes also a much more dynamic offensive player.

Duren right now is farrrrr ahead defensively, rebounding, and playing a style that mesh's with basically anyone else in the league. I also think his value as a passer is underrated and he might have more versatility on offense eventually than we currently expect.

I think I'd take Duren. If you told me 'one of these two players eventually becomes a top 10 player in the NBA' I would guess Sengun pretty comfortably. Overall I think Duren is going to be a high impact starter that fits with every team in the NBA.

[canada_dry]

Im a sengun guy.

Really impressed by duren so far though.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Bornstellar]

Post game heavy centers with no defense are dinosaurs in today's NBA. Give me Duren

Jokic?

The myth that Jokic doesn't play defense has already been dispelled. And while Jokic has a great post game he is not solely reliant on it. He is also a two time MVP and the reigning finals MVP, arguably the best player in the NBA. He is the exception, not the rule.