GT: Chalot vs Pets 10/30 7PM EST

[Rich4114]

Clifford playing Mark 23 minutes in this game is honestly hilarious.

Clifford probably thinks that once Frank is back, our defense will be good.

He just can't relate to this era. Either the players or the playstyle.

I think Maledon should have been the first option at backup PG and Frank's injury saved Clifford from himself. I fully expect Frank will be the backup PG again once he gets healthy and I assume its going to drive everyone mad.

Frank does look like a decent defender, but his offense is just putrid. Cannot score at any level yet is willing to let it fly from three the moment he sees daylight. There's a reason he was available in October or September or whatever it was when we signed him. Theo is the better backup even if he doesn't offer much defensively.

[JMAC3]

Once Martin is back, the backup pg mins will be squeezed even more.

[Hornet Mania]

On the Frank/Theo front it's also not just that Frank kinda sucks (although he does), but also that there is no chance he improves.

Frank is what he is, an above-average wing defender whose offense is abysmal. Theo has flaws but he's also just 22 years old and still improving.

Even if you think Frank is slightly better it makes little sense to play him over Theo. The real problem is Cliff thinks Frank is good.

[JMAC3]

On the Frank/Theo front it's also not just that Frank kinda sucks (although he does), but also that there is no chance he improves.

Frank is what he is, an above-average wing defender whose offense is abysmal. Theo has flaws but he's also just 22 years old and still improving.

Even if you think Frank is slightly better it makes little sense to play him over Theo. The real problem is Cliff thinks Frank is good.

People also thought Dennis Smith Jr was cooked when we signed him last year. I think Clifford is pretty good at defining players roles and I could see Frank actually finding a real rotation spot at some point this year if the players around him can play to his strengths and hide his weaknesses.

[Hornet Mania]

On the Frank/Theo front it's also not just that Frank kinda sucks (although he does), but also that there is no chance he improves.

Frank is what he is, an above-average wing defender whose offense is abysmal. Theo has flaws but he's also just 22 years old and still improving.

Even if you think Frank is slightly better it makes little sense to play him over Theo. The real problem is Cliff thinks Frank is good.

People also thought Dennis Smith Jr was cooked when we signed him last year. I think Clifford is pretty good at defining players roles and I could see Frank actually finding a real rotation spot at some point this year if the players around him can play to his strengths and hide his weaknesses.

I honestly hope you're right, but I have a hard time seeing it that way. What you call defining roles I'd call inflexible lineups. I also have a hard time imagining how Frank's flaws (can't shoot, can't create) can be hidden when we're not a great shooting team generally and we have few players who can create for others.

[Crossroads24]

I think he's still not 100% and it's **** with his head as he tries to get up to speed in live games early in the season when everybody's got all the juice.

This is exactly what it looks like to me. Not so much that he's hurt, he just doesn't have his legs under him yet and doesn't have his trademark agility.

Melo isn't explosive per se, but he's always been so quick and shifty, things have always come so easy. Guys just can't stay in front of him, and he can pretty much get to any spot on the court he wants. But after essentially a year without really pushing himself physically, he's just a tick slower and less fluid in his movements. And as a result, he can't just breeze by people and get to his spots. I have never, ever seen Melo look uncomfortable or lack confidence on the floor. But that's exactly what he looks like now. And I think it's because a game that's always seemed so easy to him is suddenly a struggle.

THAT SAID, I have no doubt he will be back up to speed in a week or two and be just fine. Just needs to play within himself and not force things for the time being.

[JMAC3]

On the Frank/Theo front it's also not just that Frank kinda sucks (although he does), but also that there is no chance he improves.

Frank is what he is, an above-average wing defender whose offense is abysmal. Theo has flaws but he's also just 22 years old and still improving.

Even if you think Frank is slightly better it makes little sense to play him over Theo. The real problem is Cliff thinks Frank is good.

People also thought Dennis Smith Jr was cooked when we signed him last year. I think Clifford is pretty good at defining players roles and I could see Frank actually finding a real rotation spot at some point this year if the players around him can play to his strengths and hide his weaknesses.

I honestly hope you're right, but I have a hard time seeing it that way. What you call defining roles I'd call inflexible lineups. I also have a hard time imagining how Frank's flaws (can't shoot, can't create) can be hidden when we're not a great shooting team generally and we have few players who can create for others.

I would say playing him with Terry makes a ton of sense. Frank can still be the primary offensive initiator and point of attack defender. While Terry is still the primary break you down on the dribble, Screen and Roll, late clock shot taker...

Frank, Terry, Hayward, PJ and Nick is a pretty solid 2nd unit that still has 3 good shooters.
LaMelo- Terry- Miller-Miles and Mark as the starting lineup, with an early Cody Martin sub, staggering Terry and Melo minutes could make a ton of sense.

[The-Power]

Also another random FYI Cliff continues to be wedded to fast pace - our pace on the season is ranked 2nd.

Is that really Clifford, or is it LaMelo?

[Walt Cronkite]

Also another random FYI Cliff continues to be wedded to fast pace - our pace on the season is ranked 2nd.

Is that really Clifford, or is it LaMelo?

Teams Clifford has coached are typically around league average pace.

[The-Power]

Also another random FYI Cliff continues to be wedded to fast pace - our pace on the season is ranked 2nd.

Is that really Clifford, or is it LaMelo?

Team's Clifford has coached are typically around or above league average pace.

That might be true (I trust you on this) but for this season specifically, the splits suggest that the current fast pace is mostly a result of the minutes with LaMelo on the court. But of course the sample is still very small and I'm not here arguing that the coach doesn't generally play an important role when it comes to play-style elements such as pace. Still, committing to LaMelo as the main offensive decision-makers means committing to playing a fast-paced style of basketball almost by default.

[Walt Cronkite]

That might be true (I trust you on this) but for this season specifically, the splits suggest that the current fast pace is mostly a result of the minutes with LaMelo on the court. But of course the sample is still very small and I'm not here arguing that the coach doesn't generally play an important role when it comes to play-style elements such as pace. Still, committing to LaMelo as the main offensive decision-makers means committing to playing a fast-paced style of basketball almost by default.

Where do you view an individual player's pace contribution?

[The-Power]

That might be true (I trust you on this) but for this season specifically, the splits suggest that the current fast pace is mostly a result of the minutes with LaMelo on the court. But of course the sample is still very small and I'm not here arguing that the coach doesn't generally play an important role when it comes to play-style elements such as pace. Still, committing to LaMelo as the main offensive decision-makers means committing to playing a fast-paced style of basketball almost by default.

Where do you view an individual player's pace contribution?

LaMelo has always played at a fast pace. He likes to run, make quick passes and, of course, take quick shots. All of that will enhance the pace of the game when that kind of player is given free rein. Currently, the team plays extremely fast with LaMelo on the court and much slower without him. That number will level out a bit with time but – without looking it up – I'm fairly sure that over the past years, the team has played faster with him compared to without him as well. This is a pattern we can clearly also observe with Steph Curry, for instance. The tendencies and preferences of the lead offensive player(s) are going to play a big role when it comes to the pace of the game.

[yosemiteben]

Also another random FYI Cliff continues to be wedded to fast pace - our pace on the season is ranked 2nd.

Is that really Clifford, or is it LaMelo?

Last year Melo missed a ton of games and we were 9th in the league in pace. We were league average post-ASB when like the whole damn team was hurt, including Melo.

[Walt Cronkite]

LaMelo has always played at a fast pace. He likes to run, make quick passes and, of course, take quick shots. All of that will enhance the pace of the game when that kind of player is given free rein. Currently, the team plays extremely fast with LaMelo on the court and much slower without him. That number will level out a bit with time but – without looking it up – I'm fairly sure that over the past years, the team has played faster with him compared to without him as well. This is a pattern we can clearly also observe with Steph Curry, for instance. The tendencies and preferences of the lead offensive player(s) are going to play a big role when it comes to the pace of the game.

You don't have to look it up, I'm asking what metric you WOULD look up. Hornets have a high pace while Ball has a bad orating and ows and had a high pace last year while LaMelo played in only 36 games. You are claiming the team plays at a higher pace with LaMelo on the court than off. I understand what pace is and I don't disagree with you that the Hornets play at a fast pace and this is LaMelo's preference. I'm attempting to learn. Is it a subscription like synergy or thinking basketball?

[Walt Cronkite]

LaMelo has always played at a fast pace. He likes to run, make quick passes and, of course, take quick shots. All of that will enhance the pace of the game when that kind of player is given free rein. Currently, the team plays extremely fast with LaMelo on the court and much slower without him. That number will level out a bit with time but – without looking it up – I'm fairly sure that over the past years, the team has played faster with him compared to without him as well. This is a pattern we can clearly also observe with Steph Curry, for instance. The tendencies and preferences of the lead offensive player(s) are going to play a big role when it comes to the pace of the game.

LaMelo played his season high in minutes last night but the team pace fell. Can you explain?

[The-Power]

LaMelo has always played at a fast pace. He likes to run, make quick passes and, of course, take quick shots. All of that will enhance the pace of the game when that kind of player is given free rein. Currently, the team plays extremely fast with LaMelo on the court and much slower without him. That number will level out a bit with time but – without looking it up – I'm fairly sure that over the past years, the team has played faster with him compared to without him as well. This is a pattern we can clearly also observe with Steph Curry, for instance. The tendencies and preferences of the lead offensive player(s) are going to play a big role when it comes to the pace of the game.

You don't have to look it up, I'm asking what metric you WOULD look up. Hornets have a high pace while Ball has a bad orating and ows and had a high pace last year while LaMelo played in only 36 games. You are claiming the team plays at a higher pace with LaMelo on the court than off. I understand what pace is and I don't disagree with you that the Hornets play at a fast pace and this is LaMelo's preference. I'm attempting to learn. Is it a subscription like synergy or thinking basketball?

It's freely available, see:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHO/2024/on-off/

This season, the pace with LaMelo on the court is 107.0 and 101.1 with him on the bench. Last season, the pace with LaMelo on the court was 102.6 and 98.9 with him on the bench. The season before that it was 101.3 with LaMelo on the court and 96.7 with him on the bench.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHO/2023/on-off/
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHO/2022/on-off/

LaMelo played his season high in minutes last night but the team pace fell. Can you explain?

It was a slower game compared to the others.

[Walt Cronkite]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHO/2024/on-off/

This season, the pace with LaMelo on the court is 107.0 and 101.1 with him on the bench. Last season, the pace with LaMelo on the court was 102.6 and 98.9 with him on the bench. The season before that it was 101.3 with LaMelo on the court and 96.7 with him on the bench.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHO/2023/on-off/
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHO/2022/on-off/

LaMelo played his season high in minutes last night but the team pace fell. Can you explain?

It was a slower game compared to the others.

That is so cool, thanks for sharing! My fandom has lapsed over the years, I poked around b-r a while yesterday but didn't stumble upon that, thanks for the link.