Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[oreon]

The issue with trading Jimmy is you can't just trade him anywhere. And if we run the gambut on 'contenders' that would even be interested in taking on his contract Philly is the only team I can think of. Even then I don't believe the return would be worth it.

Jimmy would get suitors. But he would have a big say on where he would go. No team would dare trade for him if he doesn't want to get there. It would be teams that are a piece or two away. So teams like Sixers, Warriors, Lakers, Dallas and maybe NO & Sac
The best location for him would be Warriors. He'd win a chip there. But we are not there yet. Riley has no appetite for rebuild. So any Butler trade would have to be initiated by Butler himself

[AirP.]

The issue with trading Jimmy is you can't just trade him anywhere. And if we run the gambut on 'contenders' that would even be interested in taking on his contract Philly is the only team I can think of. Even then I don't believe the return would be worth it.

Right, look at what it cost Miami and even Philly to trade for him, he's now on the max at age 34.

The only place I think Miami might be able to get some assets from... New York or the Lakers after their players are available to be traded but you're looking at players like DLO, Rui, GABE! but maybe you could get that LA pick after LeBron and Butler are done.

[VaDe255]

Trading Jimmy is out of the question. The Heat have already demonstrated that a core of Jimmy and Bam has the potential to go the distance. Had it not been for unfortunate injuries, they might very well have secured the title.

One can't overlook the invaluable experience and skills of our coaching staff. Led by Spo, this is a team that knows how to win, and that's a huge advantage in any championship run.

In terms of talent, the trio of Butler, Bam, and Herro is sufficient. These players not only have immense skill but also complement each other exceptionally well on the court. Butler and Adebayo bring leadership that is often the missing ingredient on teams with less playoff success. Their ability to inspire and guide their teammates cannot be understated.

However, talent alone won't win championships. Cohesiveness is key, and not just among Butler, Bam, and Herro. The entire team needs to develop a strong chemistry to maximize their potential. Right now, Butler and Herro are playing 'my turn, your turn' basketball rather than playing off of each other, but both have a natural chemistry with Bam. Expanding this chemistry to the rest of the squad will be crucial for a deep playoff run.

Resting Jimmy and Bam during tough, less winnable games is a strategic move aimed at ensuring they are in top form for the most critical part of the season. It's not just about avoiding injuries; it's about being in peak condition for the playoffs.

Lastly, let's not forget the role of luck, especially when it comes to injuries. Winning a championship often requires a bit of good fortune, and staying healthy is a big part of that equation.

[contract]

Trading Bam makes absolutely zero sense. This is called a soft rebuild. We actually have nice pieces to do it. This is unlike the era you speak of talking about Whiteside, TJ, Waiters, and JJ

Oh, a soft rebuild so somehow Miami who couldn't add real talent to the roster for the last 4 years will all of a sudden be able to add that talent? Good luck under this new CBA.

Your Butler-fan side is showing. I feel like this suggestion irked you and you are taking it personally. For a heat-fan, it is not a terrible idea. Again, I am not advocating for it, but just defending its merit just like there is merit to keeping Butler and fighting for a chance every year in the playoffs.

With that said… if Butler is going to half arse it all year and simply collect checks… then it’s time to move him to a situation that motivates him again.

It's always a terrible idea to trade away your best player.

[contract]

I love Jimmy buckets man but he’s not winning a chip with this team as currently constructed and I see no light in adding anything of substance to change that narrative. Trade him to a real contender and we usher in our new era with Bam, Jovic, JJJ, and Herro with a boat load of space and assets and see what the future holds.

Then fix the construction around him. But trying to keep the Jackson 5 together minus Michael is just a waste of time.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Jimmy doesn’t have much time left. Unfortunately, the Heat havnt been able to add an elite piece next him. It may be time to pivot, especially with Butler appearing to be checked out.

[AirP.]

Oh, a soft rebuild so somehow Miami who couldn't add real talent to the roster for the last 4 years will all of a sudden be able to add that talent? Good luck under this new CBA.

Your Butler-fan side is showing. I feel like this suggestion irked you and you are taking it personally. For a heat-fan, it is not a terrible idea. Again, I am not advocating for it, but just defending its merit just like there is merit to keeping Butler and fighting for a chance every year in the playoffs.

With that said… if Butler is going to half arse it all year and simply collect checks… then it’s time to move him to a situation that motivates him again.

Not really, I can put aside my fandom to evaluate a trade. When I look at the player... Butler's 34 years old, on a max, has had injuries in the past, takes games off to lengthen his career, has a strong personality that can cause issues and sometimes coasts in the regular season I just don't see a good haul coming back for him.

Maybe you can get something like CP3, Kaminga and GPII for him. How about Irving for Butler? Maybe you'd like Gabe back in a Gabe, DLO and Rui for Butler move? You're not going to get all that much, look what Portland got for Lillard, look what Philly got for Harden, don't kid yourself, it would be basically moving his salary for some midlevel players and expiring's.

[Kobewade11]

The issue with trading Jimmy is you can't just trade him anywhere. And if we run the gambut on 'contenders' that would even be interested in taking on his contract Philly is the only team I can think of. Even then I don't believe the return would be worth it.

Jimmy would get suitors. But he would have a big say on where he would go. No team would dare trade for him if he doesn't want to get there. It would be teams that are a piece or two away. So teams like Sixers, Warriors, Lakers, Dallas and maybe NO & Sac
The best location for him would be Warriors. He'd win a chip there. But we are not there yet. Riley has no appetite for rebuild. So any Butler trade would have to be initiated by Butler himself

I agree this is all just fan speculation, but I'd be shocked if you could find 3 contenders that could offer a palatable deal. The Warriors picks mean nothing to us, and there's no players they could offer to make an enticing deal. If they called I'm pulling a Cronin and asking for Curry. Ditto w/ the Lakers, you want Jimmy? Ok well send me AD. What use do we have for any of their crap? We also have to remember Jimmy has a reputation league wide (for right or wrong reasons) that precedes him, add in the financial ramifications and its easy to see why younger teams or those with no established culture ie: Dallas, NO, Sacramento, would not be interested.

[carnageta]

4 games in and already talking about trading Jimmy for the rebuild.

If that isn't the epitome of Miami Heat basketball I don't know what is.


(I know we're all just discussing and are aware it's not very likely to happen).

[MettaWorldPanda]

The Sixers would be the most likely landing spot for Butler for multiple first and 2nd’s all those expiring's they have. Lowry would also go too.

[KingHomer21]

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Pure speculation obviously, but I don't blame Butler - his body language to start this season is the worst I've seen in a Heat uniform even for his standards. This roster has issues and now his greatness, Spo's adaptability & ingenuity, Bam's defensive prowess, and the "culture" intangibles are beginning to run out of steam or patience in making it work. So unless he requests a trade, there's no point in entertaining the thought of trading him -- it's been a seemingly perfect marriage between the Heat and him. The Heat have put him in a position to succeed and paid him his worth and what he's asked, and even then he has more than kept up his end of the bargain. He's been one of the best playoff performers in the league in the last 4 years and one of the Heat's all-time players, period. This isn't just on Mickey Arison but also on the asset management in trying to compete every year and not prioritze picks while also a very unwelcoming CBA unveiled that made our bread and butter (FA splash) a lot more complicated - that is where the crux of Arison's spending/CBA ramifications/asset management have reared its ugly head during Butler/Bam's prime years. If it weren't for the Hea'ts development system and its winning culture, this would've been another bad Butler-led team. The Heat front office needs to figure this out fast. Unfortunately, I truly think that means the end of Herro in a Heat uniform.

[Flash4thewin]

The issue with trading Jimmy is you can't just trade him anywhere. And if we run the gambut on 'contenders' that would even be interested in taking on his contract Philly is the only team I can think of. Even then I don't believe the return would be worth it.

Jimmy would get suitors. But he would have a big say on where he would go. No team would dare trade for him if he doesn't want to get there. It would be teams that are a piece or two away. So teams like Sixers, Warriors, Lakers, Dallas and maybe NO & Sac
The best location for him would be Warriors. He'd win a chip there. But we are not there yet. Riley has no appetite for rebuild. So any Butler trade would have to be initiated by Butler himself

I agree this is all just fan speculation, but I'd be shocked if you could find 3 contenders that could offer a palatable deal. The Warriors picks mean nothing to us, and there's no players they could offer to make an enticing deal. If they called I'm pulling a Cronin and asking for Curry. Ditto w/ the Lakers, you want Jimmy? Ok well send me AD. What use do we have for any of their crap? We also have to remember Jimmy has a reputation league wide (for right or wrong reasons) that precedes him, add in the financial ramifications and its easy to see why younger teams or those with no established culture ie: Dallas, NO, Sacramento, would not be interested.

If and when Butler gets fed up, what Harden did to get traded will look like child's play compared to what Butler is capable of doing.

[MiamiLoyal926]

Oh, a soft rebuild so somehow Miami who couldn't add real talent to the roster for the last 4 years will all of a sudden be able to add that talent? Good luck under this new CBA.

Your Butler-fan side is showing. I feel like this suggestion irked you and you are taking it personally. For a heat-fan, it is not a terrible idea. Again, I am not advocating for it, but just defending its merit just like there is merit to keeping Butler and fighting for a chance every year in the playoffs.

With that said… if Butler is going to half arse it all year and simply collect checks… then it’s time to move him to a situation that motivates him again.

Not really, I can put aside my fandom to evaluate a trade. When I look at the player... Butler's 34 years old, on a max, has had injuries in the past, takes games off to lengthen his career, has a strong personality that can cause issues and sometimes coasts in the regular season I just don't see a good haul coming back for him.

Maybe you can get something like CP3, Kaminga and GPII for him. How about Irving for Butler? Maybe you'd like Gabe back in a Gabe, DLO and Rui for Butler move? You're not going to get all that much, look what Portland got for Lillard, look what Philly got for Harden, don't kid yourself, it would be basically moving his salary for some midlevel players and expiring's.

This is why I don’t think it happens. He is worth more to us here than in a trade.

[wadenation305]

Riddle me this...... If Spo won't play Jovic because he isn't ready...... why does he play guys from the local Y ahead of him? In what world are a bunch of guys that.... by every metric performed by people paid millions of dollars to evaluate talent deemed that they had no NBA skill.... more ready than a 1st round pick?

Reliably doing what you're expected to do means more than raw talent for role players.

I get what you are saying and where you are coming from. I do not disagree. But if by that definition Drew Smith is out there sucking cheeks. He is doing what we expect him to do, but I'm not sure he's providing anything on the court that can be called a positive. Jovic is going out there at least being big and grabbing us some boards and pushing our slow hinds up the court. 100x times more than anything Drew has dreamed of providing this team.

This has been one of my only two death gripes with Spo. He sometimes just flat-out refuses to do the obvious. And that he is flat-out mechanical with his subs and will yank someone even if they just finished hitting 3 straight pull-ups 3's. Almost like he is saying "Hold on lil buddy, you are on fire there I'm going to need you to cool off"

[dean456]

Yeah I don't see a way out of this for Miami. Ownership don't want to pay up or take on additional salary/years to help us compete and they likely also don't want to trade Jimmy and rebuild because they'll lose money if they do.

I've said for a while the best option to salvage this and potentially turn it around in Bam and Tyler's windows is sending Jimmy to Goldenstate and getting their 2025, 2027 and 2029 FRPs plus Kuminga and Moody and CP3 to match salary.

Miami get off 67mil in salary next season in CP3/Lowry/Martin and only have Bam, Herro and Robinson under large contracts going forward. Miami's own pick will likely be a lottery pick this year and most likely the later year picks from GS would be high too.

[wadenation305]

With that said… Harden sure knows how to make things uncomfortable… had Dame not folded and chosen to make things uncomfortable like Harden did… he too could have ended up where he “wanted to be”. Dame signed off on the trade to the Bucks at the end of the day.

Nice guys finish last in business. Save nice for family and charity

[dean456]

CP3/Lowry/Hampton
Herro/Robinson/Cain
Jaquez/Martin/Highsmith
Kuminga/Jovic/Love
Bam/Bryant/Robinson

We likely not winning anything but that wouldn't be the worst team to watch while we rebuild.0

[wadenation305]

I also agree Jovic should be starting over Love. Love is a 2nd unit guy at best. Him and Lowry are massive holes as starters. Jovic has shown more promise in his 2 stints this season than Love probably ever has in a Heat jersey. He brings a whole new dynamic too

Love is playing really well too… and even then, I think Jovic has had a greater positive impact. Jovic should start and Love get second unit burn more as a vet for the kids like JJJ and Bryant.

When Highsmith returns… then things will get interesting.

Highsmith honestly slipped my mind, I think he’s developing into a great 3 and D guy. He’s probably my favorite to start

You got it all wrong. The Spo playbook clearly states that he will start Love to Hamstring the team so they can learn to win through adversity. Only once we seem like we might be in danger of falling out of the playoffs and everyone is going to let go of the rope, will he then begrudgingly tweak the masterpiece that is his starting lineup once Love inevitably gets injured somewhere between 60 to 80% of the way through the season. The whole time Spo will have taught Jovic the fundamentals of teamwork by having him carry around Cole Swiders bags.

[dubasilva]

Yeah I don't see a way out of this for Miami. Ownership don't want to pay up or take on additional salary/years to help us compete and they likely also don't want to trade Jimmy and rebuild because they'll lose money if they do.

I've said for a while the best option to salvage this and potentially turn it around in Bam and Tyler's windows is sending Jimmy to Goldenstate and getting their 2025, 2027 and 2029 FRPs plus Kuminga and Moody and CP3 to match salary.

Miami get off 67mil in salary next season in CP3/Lowry/Martin and only have Bam, Herro and Robinson under large contracts going forward. Miami's own pick will likely be a lottery pick this year and most likely the later year picks from GS would be high too.

I agree with this one. It makes sense. This team is going nowhere, so let's make it happen for Jimmy. I'm not sure Golden State will give us 3 FRP, but 2 FRP might do it.
We can play some of the young guys, JJJ and Jovic.
We're lucky to be Heat fans. We have three titles and made it to 2 finals in the last few years.
It would be fun to watch these guys develop. Hopefully, they will.

[wade44]

Completely agree on all accounts. You do the deal and don’t even think twice. Won’t affect his jersey hanging in the Heat rafters one bit