Woj Bomb! Harden traded to Clips

[og15]

In all fairness, this is also the first time James has been able to choose his own destination. He was drafted by OKC, traded to HOU, traded to BRK and then traded to PHI. Now he is being traded again, but this time to the team he wants.

Didn't Harden demand the trades to Brooklyn and Philly? How is this different from those? He wasn't randomly traded from either of those teams.

He followed the money and forced his way to teams that would pay him. This time, he forced his way to a team that did not really want him, but one that he wanted. Not sure if it makes a difference, but he seems pretty happy today.

The Clippers obviously wanted Harden since they traded for him. The Clippers simply didn't want to give a boatload for a player who was disgruntled, just opted in to be traded, and had one year on his contract.

I don't really think these distinctions mean much. Brooklyn was not the only place he could have been paid, he wanted to team up with friends on a contender. He then wanted to team up with an MVP candidate and reunite with Morey on a contender.

He's just consistently doing what benefits him, which he has the right to do, but I don't think we need to make any large distinction between the previous stops and now. It's the same situation in essence, the only question will be whether he can be pacified. We'll probably find out when contract negotiations are being had in the off-season and whether he starts asking for the same paycheck as PG and Kahwi.

[dc]

He followed the money and forced his way to teams that would pay him. This time, he forced his way to a team that did not really want him, but one that he wanted. Not sure if it makes a difference, but he seems pretty happy today.

I'm pretty sure the Clippers wanted him. That's why they traded for him.

[CS707]

Interesting the polls are this close. I would have figured it would favor LAC winning pretty handily. I don't know much about their roster construction outside the obvious though, to be fair. That said, I think they only had one option and that was full speed ahead. In that sense, I like this for them.

[R-DAWG]

the fact the Clips didn't give up any of their young guys is amazing. Good trade for them. If they win a title it is all that matters.

KJ Martin is 22

I didn't see he was included until after I posted. He's a good prospect. I hope he gets PT in Philly. He has some of that dog in him with some hops and an edge. I think Philly fans would love his attitude if they give him some run.

KJ Martin might be an upgrade over PJ Tucker at this point - and likely is on an upward trajectory rather than Tucker's downward trajectory. Also - he's got a $1.9MM cap hold next summer - which could allow Philly to resign him after using their cap space.

[clippertown]

He followed the money and forced his way to teams that would pay him. This time, he forced his way to a team that did not really want him, but one that he wanted. Not sure if it makes a difference, but he seems pretty happy today.

I'm pretty sure the Clippers wanted him. That's why they traded for him.

I didn't mean it that way. The Clippers never reached out to Philly to acquire Harden. He made a public statement and that brought the Clips into the fray. If Harden demanded a trade but did not specify the Clippers, he would not be in LA right now IMO.

[clippertown]

KJ Martin is 22

I didn't see he was included until after I posted. He's a good prospect. I hope he gets PT in Philly. He has some of that dog in him with some hops and an edge. I think Philly fans would love his attitude if they give him some run.

KJ Martin might be an upgrade over PJ Tucker at this point - and likely is on an upward trajectory rather than Tucker's downward trajectory. Also - he's got a $1.9MM cap hold next summer - which could allow Philly to resign him after using their cap space.

I have my questions about Tucker, especially since the Clips just unloaded three of their power forwards (and KMjr who is a SF/PF). Hopefully, Tucker can do the RoCo role of grabbing rebounds and defending hard. Could be a weak spot on the team if he is already washed. Clips gave up Nick Batum, but he was actually an essential member of the squad and his presence will be missed.

[clippertown]

They should bring Westbrook off the bench, he thrived in that role last year. Start Mann as the Swiss Army knife in the starting lineup and Powell, Westbrook plus whoever tough off the bench.

i don't hate the idea in theory, assuming westbrook is totally cool with it and lue has a clear, defined role to make it all work (if you ask me, this trade doesn't even happen without countless hours of lue theory-crafting it all and presenting a legitimate overall strategy to the FO/owner).

but an enormous issue with westbrook off the bench is that the team is now just, well, too small. bones is somehow skinnier than the skinniest versions of jamal crawford/lou williams, and norm powell is not just small, but over the past couple years he for some reason has lost his ability to be a serviceable defender. westbrook's not really a guy you wanna rely on defensively to begin with, so the team will be featuring these dumb micro-ball/3+ guard units (which got shredded last year over and over).

not something i'm enthused about. move powell, though, or let mann come off the bench and maybe it's all good, though. like, you do kinda want westbrook to pair with plumlee i think given their athleticism and zubac's challenges when it comes to catching the former's passes. and i'd expect harden would have a softer and more deft touch which would pair better with zu as well.

shrug, who knows. as a clipper fan i'm not too enthused about this trade. too many question marks and that's not even counting that i 've detested james harden for years already. westbrook has been showing us an energy and ownership of the team that neither kawhi nor paul george have really provided us, and to me i think that has created a positive feedback loop for the guy to feel better, play better, and feel like he's got a place where he truly and finally belongs. and i get the clips are trying to talent it up, but we have all seen what an unhappy/unmotivated westbrook looks like, and it's not good. so yeah, concerns abound for me. but if powell gets traded for a better fit, and westbrook is provided with a still-clear role AND he still feels like the team is his such that he doesn't regress, then i'd be ok with it all.

Russ is not coming off the bench. He signed for $4M to be a starter, not a bench player. If we do this, we will lose him next year.

The problem with the current backup rotation this year is that KMjr sucked and Mann was injured. A backup squad of Bones + Norm + Mann + Tucker (or Kobe) + Plumlee has both offense and defense and is one of the better benches in the league.

[amcoolio]

Interesting the polls are this close. I would have figured it would favor LAC winning pretty handily. I don't know much about their roster construction outside the obvious though, to be fair. That said, I think they only had one option and that was full speed ahead. In that sense, I like this for them.

I don't think Harden is even good anymore. He's in his 14th year, and has pretty clearly declined since losing his athleticism.

[baldur]

So what did okc get?

[KGdaBom]

Interesting the polls are this close. I would have figured it would favor LAC winning pretty handily. I don't know much about their roster construction outside the obvious though, to be fair. That said, I think they only had one option and that was full speed ahead. In that sense, I like this for them.

I don't think Harden is even good anymore. He's in his 14th year, and has pretty clearly declined since losing his athleticism.

Say what you want about Harden as a person, but people dissing Harden's basketball skills are simply out of touch with reality. Just last season he led the NBA in assists 10.7 per game at a very efficient A/TO of 3.15, 21 PPG, 6 RPG 1.2 SPG and a nice True Shooting over 60%. That is elite performance. He gives the Clippers a chance to win it all.

[KGdaBom]

So what did okc get?

A pick swap I think.

[Ben-N1ce]

So does this even put them above GS, SAC or Lakers in the state?

[amcoolio]

Interesting the polls are this close. I would have figured it would favor LAC winning pretty handily. I don't know much about their roster construction outside the obvious though, to be fair. That said, I think they only had one option and that was full speed ahead. In that sense, I like this for them.

I don't think Harden is even good anymore. He's in his 14th year, and has pretty clearly declined since losing his athleticism.

Say what you want about Harden as a person, but people dissing Harden's basketball skills are simply out of touch with reality. Just last season he led the NBA in assists 10.7 per game at a very efficient A/TO of 3.15, 21 PPG, 6 RPG 1.2 SPG and a nice True Shooting over 60%. That is elite performance. He gives the Clippers a chance to win it all.

And how much of that does he give back on the other end?

[KGdaBom]

So does this even put them above GS, SAC or Lakers in the state?

Yes

[KGdaBom]

I don't think Harden is even good anymore. He's in his 14th year, and has pretty clearly declined since losing his athleticism.

Say what you want about Harden as a person, but people dissing Harden's basketball skills are simply out of touch with reality. Just last season he led the NBA in assists 10.7 per game at a very efficient A/TO of 3.15, 21 PPG, 6 RPG 1.2 SPG and a nice True Shooting over 60%. That is elite performance. He gives the Clippers a chance to win it all.

And how much of that does he give back on the other end?

Harden is not a great defender, but he makes everybody better on offense. It's more important.

[TheGOATWill]

Clips sent out 4 guys who in 3 games took a combined 25 shots. Averaged 14.5 last year. Either Harden is getting a role he hasn’t had since his rookie year or somebody in the rotation is conceding shot attempts.

[levon]

Interesting the polls are this close. I would have figured it would favor LAC winning pretty handily. I don't know much about their roster construction outside the obvious though, to be fair. That said, I think they only had one option and that was full speed ahead. In that sense, I like this for them.

I don't think Harden is even good anymore. He's in his 14th year, and has pretty clearly declined since losing his athleticism.

Say what you want about Harden as a person, but people dissing Harden's basketball skills are simply out of touch with reality. Just last season he led the NBA in assists 10.7 per game at a very efficient A/TO of 3.15, 21 PPG, 6 RPG 1.2 SPG and a nice True Shooting over 60%. That is elite performance. He gives the Clippers a chance to win it all.

Honestly, when you scale some of his points and assists down to account for him not being the uber usage player he'll be in LA, his numbers last year are very comparable to DAngelo Russell. The comparison holds as we go into the highest levels of playoff basketball. I don't think anyone would say DAngelo gives any team a chance to win it all. Sure he helps, but he has weaknesses.

This was an overpay, especially considering you have to commit salary to him going forward. But it's a necessary overplay to go all in on this era.

[bisme37]

Wow the poll is really even. Congrats to both teams.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

These sorta deals are always better at the deadline. Very stupid for Philly to make this deal now since they couldn't make one in the offseason; their team was good enough to contend for the playoffs without Harden, sitting him out for half a year doesn't actually diminish his trade value and it doesn't hurt the team's ability to make the playoffs either...it hurts his ability to sign a new contract and sign extra-basketball endorsement deals. the team has the leverage in this particular situation, Harden is the one burning money, the Sixers are burning a few wins but not enough to tank their season in the first half.

Kind of a dumb deal for LA too IMO, the mantra of "talent" over "fit" is generally true I think, but does LAC have the ability to replace their entire bench via the waiver wire and g-league during the regular season? That seems to matter in a very competitive western conference where nobody is guaranteed to even make the playoffs.

Very curious to see how this trade ages because it seems like a rare case where it's bad for both teams. In a vacuum, LAC traded a bunch of slightly 'above replacement level' role players for an all-star, which is probably a good deal. However, LA no longer has the option to replace those players via free agency and so their success depends on the ability of three injury prone, aging stars. Not a great recipe for success IMO. For Philly, I actually think their team improves during the regular season. but in the playoffs, it turns back into a game where you play 5 on 5 and so you've just reduced your chance to win an individual (playoff) game by trading Ben Simmons and draft stock for a mediocre bench that could've been acquired via free agency or via smaller trades. I'm pretty sure Philly lost more picks than they gained during this saga too, limiting their future success.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

Wow the poll is really even. Congrats to both teams.

more like "fail for both teams"