Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[wadenation305]

You don't think Martin isn't going to try to cash out on his last possible big money contract? He'll be 29 next year, he's got to get all the money he can and will almost certainly do that. This is the downside of developing older players, they are good values early in their career but at some point you have to pay them which would be fine if you did consolidation trades but for whatever reason Miami doesn't and lets talent just walk for nearly nothing (baring a S&T to net them a 2nd).

That's fine if his price tag gets to high then you move on. We have JJJ continue to grow and we get a cheap 1 year vet SF to back him up as we navigate the summer of 2025 or look to deal for a top tier player before during the year.

There it is... Miami just moves on and loses an asset. Just like a few years ago, there looks to be a guy ready to give you a lot of what Martin does in Jaquez Jr, so why not get something for Martin this year? How about using Martin packaged with Robinson to get a useful low cost player on a multiple year deal? You have to plan things out, if a player is going to be priced out of staying in Miami get something for them.

Miami was in somewhat the same situation a few years ago with Robinson and Strus on the bench, sell off Robinson instead of giving him a big deal and make Spoelstra use Strus vs having to wait for a or some starters asking for Strus to start?

I just don't see Miami offering Martin good enough money to come back with Jaquez on a rookie deal on the roster.

100% if I'm moving Jimmy, I'm moving Martin too along with either Lowry or Duncan and hopefully get at least a fringe starter back on longer team-friendly money. If anyone wants cap relief up to the trade deadline Lowry is super gone too if I can even get 2 second-round picks in return. Just hoard all the picks possible. Either draft players that are not G-league bound with them and see what you can do with a team of actual NBA talent or at the worst case now you have a bunch of picks that are not directly yours to go throw at Mitchell or the next big thing that wants out. The only people I would keep are Herro, Bam, Jovic, and Jaquez

[wadenation305]

That's fine if his price tag gets to high then you move on. We have JJJ continue to grow and we get a cheap 1 year vet SF to back him up as we navigate the summer of 2025 or look to deal for a top tier player before during the year.

There it is... Miami just moves on and loses an asset. Just like a few years ago, there looks to be a guy ready to give you a lot of what Martin does in Jaquez Jr, so why not get something for Martin this year? How about using Martin packaged with Robinson to get a useful low cost player on a multiple year deal? You have to plan things out, if a player is going to be priced out of staying in Miami get something for them.

Miami was in somewhat the same situation a few years ago with Robinson and Strus on the bench, sell off Robinson instead of giving him a big deal and make Spoelstra use Strus vs having to wait for a or some starters asking for Strus to start?

I just don't see Miami offering Martin good enough money to come back with Jaquez on a rookie deal on the roster.

Listen if Butler, Martin, and Lowry get traded this year and we are able to obtain a good amount of book flexibility and heavy draft pick compensation then I'm all for it. We are not getting anything of substance until we fill up our draft pick cuboard. As it stands we are sitting on like a few tradeable first and like 1 2nd round pick. That's completely laughable. I still think Robinson and his deal is not a movable deal without a pick attached. It's just too much to ask a team to take on 18 million for a one dimensional player.

Keep in mind that the firsts that we do have available, might as well be 3-rd round picks when it comes to value too

[wadenation305]

Here's a question nobody seems to ask, why would Bam recruit to Miami if he sees players who have done great things for the franchise just traded for spare parts? The franchise was going nowhere fast then Butler forced his way there, got them to 2 finals vs being a 1st round exit each year and is repaid by not building up the roster around him and then traded, why wouldn't Bam think the same thing will happen to me. At some point you have to be loyal if you want loyalty, this isn't 2k. Miami had/has been working for years to get the stank off them for pushing Wade out the door.

Because we are ushering a damn new era making the 26 year old Bam the true face of the franchise and building on the next 8-10 years of the Bam era. We can't realistically build around a soon to be 35 year old high mileage star when we can't even get sufficient pieces to build around him as things currently stand and would be status quo until his deal is up.

Unleash a new era? Why do you think with Butler gone somehow things get better then they are now? Herro has no problem taking the most shots in franchise history through 3-4 games, what's holding Bam back from upping his shot count? Right now, defenses have to account for Butler as the #1 option even if he's coasting making offensive life a little easier on both Bam and Herro, if he's not there things get tougher for both of them.

Unless we are getting a star near the same level as Jimmy in return, it's a given that we are in no way, shape, or form better than we are with Jimmy. Undoubtedly we will be worse in the short term, but better in the long run moving him vs just riding the wave out. Both won't lead to an immediate ring, but one leaves you in a much better position to re-tool while with the other one, you are left with nothing but starting the sucking process later. I'm a rip-the-band-aid-off type of person.

This is also under the speculation that Butler isn't happy and may be thinking of wanting out.

[twix2500]

Bam has been named captain.

Time to fully embrace the Bam era and get him a running mate that fits into his timeline. We won't be able to accomplish that with Butler on the books for 50 mil per in his age 35 and 36 year. We are heading into Bam's prime years and our sole focus should be building the team around him.

What are you suggesting? Build through the draft?

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[AirP.]

There it is... Miami just moves on and loses an asset. Just like a few years ago, there looks to be a guy ready to give you a lot of what Martin does in Jaquez Jr, so why not get something for Martin this year? How about using Martin packaged with Robinson to get a useful low cost player on a multiple year deal? You have to plan things out, if a player is going to be priced out of staying in Miami get something for them.

Miami was in somewhat the same situation a few years ago with Robinson and Strus on the bench, sell off Robinson instead of giving him a big deal and make Spoelstra use Strus vs having to wait for a or some starters asking for Strus to start?

I just don't see Miami offering Martin good enough money to come back with Jaquez on a rookie deal on the roster.

Listen if Butler, Martin, and Lowry get traded this year and we are able to obtain a good amount of book flexibility and heavy draft pick compensation then I'm all for it. We are not getting anything of substance until we fill up our draft pick cuboard. As it stands we are sitting on like a few tradeable first and like 1 2nd round pick. That's completely laughable. I still think Robinson and his deal is not a movable deal without a pick attached. It's just too much to ask a team to take on 18 million for a one dimensional player.

Keep in mind that the firsts that we do have available, might as well be 3-rd round picks when it comes to value too

That's just biased talk for the clicks, I can't believe any GM in the current era would believe that. Right now, any pick 4-7 years from Miami could be a mid to possibly inside the top 10 lottery pick, you have Butler aging out and the uncertainty of Riley with him already being 78.

Just looking back, Miami's picks have had a chance to net good players, they've drafted high enough to get Winslow (could have cashed that out instead of drafting him), they got Bam and Herro in the lottery and for whatever reason drafted Precious over Maxey which is a head scratcher since the coach had zero plans to ever play Precious with Bam and with that decision made Precious' ceiling as a 12-16 minute role-player, a huge waste of a pick, it almost sounds like the FO and coaching staff weren't exactly aligned on that pick. Outside of Butler forcing his way to Miami, almost all the picks since LeBron left would be good chances as lottery picks so why wouldn't that same chance continue once Butler is aged out?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Bam has been named captain.

Time to fully embrace the Bam era and get him a running mate that fits into his timeline. We won't be able to accomplish that with Butler on the books for 50 mil per in his age 35 and 36 year. We are heading into Bam's prime years and our sole focus should be building the team around him.

What are you suggesting? Build through the draft?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

What do you suggest we do to improve this team in Jimmy’s 35 and 36 years? Heading into purgatory. Not suggesting building through the draft but building up a war chest to make future deals and also free up money. It’s time to start thinking about Bam and Herro because they are going to be here alot longer then Jimmy is.

[AirP.]

This is also under the speculation that Butler isn't happy and may be thinking of wanting out.

I don't think he wants out; I do think he wants the FO to actually go for it before it's absolutely too late while he's a high level player.

Another summer and the main thing isn't the main thing. He went emo and addressed that he had high hopes TWICE this offseason only to be shot down, he scheduled a dental procedure during the preseason, he's barely going through the motions and taking games off this early? It seems like a protest of another year without upgrades without having to go public about the FO/Owner.

[MettaWorldPanda]

After striking out for Dame i think the going for it deal under the Jimmy era ship has sailed. It’s going to be more beneficial for us to sell high on Jimmy before it’s too late. And also we are not beating many of these teams out there and there lofty trade packages for anything worth while trying to keep the Bam, Butler, and Herro core in tact.

[Kobewade11]

What difference would it make with Dame here, or really anybody else if homeboy is already missing games to rest? There’s still ample time to do something but like most teams we can only go as far as the top 2 or 3 guys take us and one of them has yet to show up this season.

[contract]

This board has officially lost it's damn mind. The pressures of 1-3 caused it to snap.

[contract]

Time to fully embrace the Bam era and get him a running mate that fits into his timeline. We won't be able to accomplish that with Butler on the books for 50 mil per in his age 35 and 36 year. We are heading into Bam's prime years and our sole focus should be building the team around him.

What are you suggesting? Build through the draft?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

What do you suggest we do to improve this team in Jimmy’s 35 and 36 years? Heading into purgatory. Not suggesting building through the draft but building up a war chest to make future deals and also free up money. It’s time to start thinking about Bam and Herro because they are going to be here alot longer then Jimmy is.

We've been trying to trade Herro for years, so I wouldn't put the mortgage money on that.

[twix2500]

Time to fully embrace the Bam era and get him a running mate that fits into his timeline. We won't be able to accomplish that with Butler on the books for 50 mil per in his age 35 and 36 year. We are heading into Bam's prime years and our sole focus should be building the team around him.

What are you suggesting? Build through the draft?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

What do you suggest we do to improve this team in Jimmy’s 35 and 36 years? Heading into purgatory. Not suggesting building through the draft but building up a war chest to make future deals and also free up money. It’s time to start thinking about Bam and Herro because they are going to be here alot longer then Jimmy is.

I don't believe Bam can be the lead guy. My whole outlook on Bam is to be the #2 aka Scottie Pippen. If its not Jimmy, then you back looking for a #1 player to build around. IMO then that means everyone are now trade pawns till you find a number one. Basically the Heat are starting over. The way to rebuild is get pawns to find a number 1. Then build around that player talents.

I know many believe in adding role players first then add a star. That never happens but fan base fool themselves into it. Hell I got banned from the Laker forum when I told them Randle, Ball, Ingram and company were all nothing but trade pawns and not their future.

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[MettaWorldPanda]

This board has officially lost it's damn mind. The pressures of 1-3 caused it to snap.

This goes much much deeper then any 1-3 start. If you can't see how crippling our offseason was I just don't know what else to say.

[contract]

This board has officially lost it's damn mind. The pressures of 1-3 caused it to snap.

This goes much much deeper then any 1-3 start. If you can't see how crippling our offseason was I just don't know what else to say.

Nothing has been crippled. This is essentially the same team as last season. Not ideal, but we're OK. It'd be nice if Pat added a couple of functional pieces, but he has refused to do that because of whales or something. We'll know where we are when the dealine comes around.

[contract]

What are you suggesting? Build through the draft?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

What do you suggest we do to improve this team in Jimmy’s 35 and 36 years? Heading into purgatory. Not suggesting building through the draft but building up a war chest to make future deals and also free up money. It’s time to start thinking about Bam and Herro because they are going to be here alot longer then Jimmy is.

I don't believe Bam can be the lead guy. My whole outlook on Bam is to be the #2 aka Scottie Pippen. If its not Jimmy, then you back looking for a #1 player to build around. IMO then that means everyone are now trade pawns till you find a number one. Basically the Heat are starting over. The way to rebuild is get pawns to find a number 1. Then build around that player talents.

I know many believe in adding role players first then add a star. That never happens but fan base fool themselves into it. Hell I got banned from the Laker forum when I told them Randle, Ball, Ingram and company were all nothing but trade pawns and not their future.

That's not a belief. He can't be the lead guy.

[MorbidHEAT]

After striking out for Dame i think the going for it deal under the Jimmy era ship has sailed. It’s going to be more beneficial for us to sell high on Jimmy before it’s too late. And also we are not beating many of these teams out there and there lofty trade packages for anything worth while trying to keep the Bam, Butler, and Herro core in tact.

I couldn’t agree more. This isn’t about giving up on Jimmy or a dislike of Jimmy. Jimmy is easily in my top 5 Heat players of all time. Having said that, if we aren’t going to get him true help, then we need to trade him while his value is still high.

This plays out one of two ways for me:
Ideal-
We use Lowry’s expiring and some sweeteners for a player that will make a difference. The irony is that we don’t even need a Dame type player or anybody that is actually better than Jimmy. We can make due with someone that is just below Jimmy but is a natural volume scorers (more efficient than Herro). We need somebody who can get a bucket when nobody else can. I haven’t seen the stats on this, but it seems like when Herro is scoring a lot, we tend to lose. Maybe Herro has a much more efficient year and he steps into that true sidekick role and we can use Lowrys contract to get real talented depth, not the Mickey Mouse depth we have now.

Less ideal-
No trade is made by the deadline. Somehow we still make it deep in the playoffs off of incredible Jimmy performances. Jimmy still asks for a trade and we can get max value for him because of how he showed out in the playoffs. Then we saved time by starting the partial (or full) rebuild 3 years earlier than we would have.

I hope Jimmy retires here….but it has to be with a chip or at least real shots at a chip. I think everyone can agree the only real shot we had was in the bubble. Without Dragic and Bam getting injured, we would have beaten the Lakers that year.

[Heat3]

How much better than Gabe was he? Yeah you go with a vet min guy rather than give a 35 year old who lost his starting job $85 mil / 3 years.

Not much better. But Lowry was a starter in Toronto. He was a starter in year 1 with the Heat and was a starter for most of the games he played last year.

I don’t see how you can use that as an argument against his contract. They cannot tell the future and think “we can’t sign him cause in a year and a half he won’t start some games”.

We could play that same game now. Dame most certainly won’t be worth $60M in his last year. Beal might not be worth his salary right now. Maybe Jimmy has fallen off the cliff already so not giving up assets this summer for “his” window was the right decision since it may already be closed. So turns out this was a summer of all the right moves being made. Just come back in 3 years and we’ll see.

Looking at it objectively, signing Lowry for three years they were probably expecting to get 2 out of him. In those two the team made it to within 1 shot of two Finals. That’s pretty good and would be hard to replicate going forward no matter moves are made.

Every year further a player goes into his 30s increases the chances that he will fall off hard and never recover again. Lowry was already 5 years in. This didn't require a crystal ball. Every season at least once a year I post a list of the top scorers in their mid to upper 30s, and it's always ugly. Performance, endurance, and availability, all start going to hell ... and a players quickness and explosiveness go too.

The salary wasn't even the issue, it was the years. A 3 year commitment to a 35 year old is too much.

I don't disagree, I didn't want CP3 for that reason either. But that is what the cost is. In a perfect world the Heat are giving 1 year contracts to everyone. Then resigning if they are worth bringing back. Realistically no one is signing that contract. They are just going somewhere else to get paid like PJ Tucker did. So it's either 3 years of Lowry knowing year 3 will probably be crap or no Lowry at all. If no Lowry who is filling that role? If the answer that summer was Gabe Vincnet the fans would be mad. Just like they are now becuase the answer is Dru Smith and last year because the answer to PJ leaving was Martin.

[AirP.]

What are you suggesting? Build through the draft?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

What do you suggest we do to improve this team in Jimmy’s 35 and 36 years? Heading into purgatory. Not suggesting building through the draft but building up a war chest to make future deals and also free up money. It’s time to start thinking about Bam and Herro because they are going to be here alot longer then Jimmy is.

I don't believe Bam can be the lead guy. My whole outlook on Bam is to be the #2 aka Scottie Pippen. If its not Jimmy, then you back looking for a #1 player to build around. IMO then that means everyone are now trade pawns till you find a number one. Basically the Heat are starting over. The way to rebuild is get pawns to find a number 1. Then build around that player talents.

I know many believe in adding role players first then add a star. That never happens but fan base fool themselves into it. Hell I got banned from the Laker forum when I told them Randle, Ball, Ingram and company were all nothing but trade pawns and not their future.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Although I'm with you on Bam not being a #1 scoring option and honestly not a #2 option either at the end of games, I want someone more versatile offensively. I do believe you can run your offense through Bam like Miami once did when he was getting 5 assists a night but now has a consistent midrange jumper to complement that role and get that offensive efficiency back up to where it once was. I think having a center who's great defensively and has the potential to put up 20pts, 10 reb and 7 assists is a top level #2 player on a championship team but needs a strong rotation around him and a guy who can get their own shot and score well in the playoffs like Butler currently can. I don't think they Miami needs a big 3, they need a good solid rotation with as few one way players as possible to give Spoelstra as many options without an option creating a real weakness on the court.

[IceColdCubano]

This board has officially lost it's damn mind. The pressures of 1-3 caused it to snap.

Just you wait until the infamous 2-9 start thats coming....I have my popcorn ready and my trolling hat on.

[Hoops3355]

Metta Panda fear mongering is hilarious. I can feel his emotion dripping on every letter.