Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[DayofMourning]

Herro now averaging 26.2ppg on 44/43/88 shooting splits

He's just getting started. . .

I just realized thats quite a bit better than Lillard is averaging to start the season. Did we get lucky by keeping Tyler? The man nobody wanted?

[contract]

The 3 years before Jimmy came to the Heat in case people have forgotten.

'16-'17: 41-41 ... missed the playoffs
'17-'18: 44-38 ... lost in the 1st round of the playoffs
'18-'19: 39-43 ... missed the playoffs

Asking Spo to work miracles with Jimmy, and Bam, and Herro, and randos, is one thing.

Asking him to work miracles with Bam, and Herro, and randos, is on a whole other level.

If we trade Jimmy, we may as well trade Spo with him. Then can retire.

[MettaWorldPanda]

The point is to give yourself a chance. That's all a team can ever do. Tomorrow isn't promised to anyone. OKC had Durant, and Westbrook, and Harden, and Ibaka ... and even Jeff Green. All of them under 25, and four of them 21 or 22 years old. They didn't win ****, and only came close once. They wasted Durant, and it doesn't matter how many draft picks they've had, they're still without Durant, and still have no chance. Young players and future draft picks don't guarantee you a championship or even a good swing at one.

Unless one of our future mid 1st round picks or Jovic or Jaime become better players than Jimmy ( ), then now is the time to push the chips to the center of the table. Actually the time was last season or the season before that, but there are no do overs.

Young players and draft picks are what gets you a star player these days. It’s no longer free agency. Lowry, Duncan, and our lowly cupboard of picks is not getting you a damn thing. Trading Herro most likely ends up in a lateral move. Jovic and JJJ also don’t hold much weight in trades right now either as mid to late first who still haven’t had a chance to prove themselves. Teams value the picks and getting the chance at drafting players they covet.

There are maybe 5 to 6 guys in the NBA at any one time that can lead a team to a championship. IMO we have one. I don't understand tossing him aside in hopes of getting another him years from now.

Your expecting 35-36 year old Jimmy to be the same as 32-33 year old Jimmy but in this rendition with Dru Smith and Haywood Highsmith as his complimentary running mates lol. Dangerous prospect for whatever minimal chance we have at winning a chip with him at the current and foreseeable build. Bam will be supermaxed next year and we’ll be signing more G Leaguers to avoid the oppressive tax penalties.

[contract]

76ers can offer 1st in 2026(frees up our full compliment of draft picks to trade) 2029 1st and possibly up to 4 seconds in any Butler trade along with a clean slate of expiring contracts. Think Harris and a PG in return like Melton. Something we need to seriously consider in a soft rebuild reboot allowing us to be players for some of the big 2025 free agent names. Mitchell would make the most sense due to relationship with Bam.

You think Bam and Donovan Mitchell can win a championship?

[contract]

Young players and draft picks are what gets you a star player these days. It’s no longer free agency. Lowry, Duncan, and our lowly cupboard of picks is not getting you a damn thing. Trading Herro most likely ends up in a lateral move. Jovic and JJJ also don’t hold much weight in trades right now either as mid to late first who still haven’t had a chance to prove themselves. Teams value the picks and getting the chance at drafting players they covet.

There are maybe 5 to 6 guys in the NBA at any one time that can lead a team to a championship. IMO we have one. I don't understand tossing him aside in hopes of getting another him years from now.

Your expecting 35-36 year old Jimmy to be the same as 32-33 year old Jimmy but in this rendition with Dru Smith and Haywood Highsmith as his complimentary running mates lol. Dangerous prospect for whatever minimal chance we have at winning a chip with him at the current and foreseeable build. Bam will be supermaxed next year and we’ll be signing more G Leaguers to avoid the oppressive tax penalties.

No, I'm expecting 34 year old Jimmy to get us across the finish line if we give him a little more help.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Vincent and Strus had a special bond with this group and were battle tested. To say that we can just replicate that on a whim with Dru Smith, J Rich, and Highsmith is just not a good assessment.

[KingDavid]

Just to show everyone how silly it is to jump to conclusions after a handful of games, yesterday Max Strus was getting praise and looking like a steal, and after tonight's game he's ...

shooting 35% FG & 35% 3pt for the season

... while leading the Cavs in minutes played for some reason.

Strus is now down to 34.8% FG & 31.1% 3pt

Vincent is shooting 39.3% FG & 07.1% 3pt

By those standards Duncan is doing fine.

Omfg damn that's horrific. Teams won't want our reclamation projects if this is what they're churning out once they leave.

[KingDavid]

Herro now averaging 26.2ppg on 44/43/88 shooting splits

He's just getting started. . .

I just realized thats quite a bit better than Lillard is averaging to start the season. Did we get lucky by keeping Tyler? The man nobody wanted?

No the bucks are being coached horribly. Griffin doesn't have Dame initiating the offense (it's crowder & someone else I've read on the GB) and they don't run Dame/Giannis P&R sets.

[contract]

Vincent and Strus had a special bond with this group and were battle tested. To say that we can just replicate that on a whim with Dru Smith, J Rich, and Highsmith is just not a good assessment.

We've had other Vincents and Strusssss. We've had an endless churn of guys like that. Also, neither guy was good when he was here.

Even if it's not Dru and JRich and Highsmith, we'll find other guys to be not good but sometime contribute anyway.

[contract]

He's just getting started. . .

I just realized thats quite a bit better than Lillard is averaging to start the season. Did we get lucky by keeping Tyler? The man nobody wanted?

No the bucks are being coached horribly. Griffin doesn't have Dame initiating the offense (it's crowder & someone else I've read on the GB) and they don't run Dame/Giannis P&R sets.

How long until they throw in the towel on the rookie head coach?

[MettaWorldPanda]

There are maybe 5 to 6 guys in the NBA at any one time that can lead a team to a championship. IMO we have one. I don't understand tossing him aside in hopes of getting another him years from now.

Your expecting 35-36 year old Jimmy to be the same as 32-33 year old Jimmy but in this rendition with Dru Smith and Haywood Highsmith as his complimentary running mates lol. Dangerous prospect for whatever minimal chance we have at winning a chip with him at the current and foreseeable build. Bam will be supermaxed next year and we’ll be signing more G Leaguers to avoid the oppressive tax penalties.

No, I'm expecting 34 year old Jimmy to get us across the finish line if we give him a little more help.

Herro’s not getting traded and Lowry and Duncan and whatever few picks we have left to trade is not going to be enough. The front office failed. Selling high on Jimmy before he falls off the cliff is the most realistic option. I know this is a polarizing discussion and some in here are probably seething at me for suggesting this but it’s a proposition that needs to be heavily weighed out. Nothing happening until the deadline anyway but need to start looking at life post Jimmy

[MettaWorldPanda]

Vincent and Strus had a special bond with this group and were battle tested. To say that we can just replicate that on a whim with Dru Smith, J Rich, and Highsmith is just not a good assessment.

We've had other Vincents and Strusssss. We've had an endless churn of guys like that. Also, neither guy was good when he was here.

Even if it's not Dru and JRich and Highsmith, we'll find other guys to be not good but sometime contribute anyway.

You also run into a lot of McGruder’s, Carter’s, and Bimbo Coles along the way.

[KingDavid]

I just realized thats quite a bit better than Lillard is averaging to start the season. Did we get lucky by keeping Tyler? The man nobody wanted?

No the bucks are being coached horribly. Griffin doesn't have Dame initiating the offense (it's crowder & someone else I've read on the GB) and they don't run Dame/Giannis P&R sets.

How long until they throw in the towel on the rookie head coach?

That coach will remain as long as Giannis wants him to be there. Bucks will do anything to keep him playing for that franchise.

[MettaWorldPanda]

I can’t believe we went into the year with J Rich, Dru Smith, and Kyle Lowry as our primary PG’s. Like really wow

[contract]

Vincent and Strus had a special bond with this group and were battle tested. To say that we can just replicate that on a whim with Dru Smith, J Rich, and Highsmith is just not a good assessment.

We've had other Vincents and Strusssss. We've had an endless churn of guys like that. Also, neither guy was good when he was here.

Even if it's not Dru and JRich and Highsmith, we'll find other guys to be not good but sometime contribute anyway.

You also run into a lot of McGruder’s, Carter’s, and Bimbo Coles along the way.

[HEATVols865]

Do we have our FRP this year?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Do we have our FRP this year?

Yes and in 2025 it’s top 14 protected and if it does not convey becomes a lottery pick in 2026

[Hallstar]

He's just getting started. . .

I just realized thats quite a bit better than Lillard is averaging to start the season. Did we get lucky by keeping Tyler? The man nobody wanted?

No the bucks are being coached horribly. Griffin doesn't have Dame initiating the offense (it's crowder & someone else I've read on the GB) and they don't run Dame/Giannis P&R sets.

We're not exactly noted for our consistent offensive execution either, and that's at the best of times

[AirP.]

5 games in, 1-4, Herro leading scorer, Bam doing Bam things, Butler bad so far. Tossing games in there too, may end up making 2 views for player with 20+ mpg (expected rotation players) and the guys below 20 mpg (not expected rotation players).

Code: Select all

+-----------------+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+----+----+---------+
|Player           |Games|MPG |TS%  |2pt% |3pt% |Pts |Ast|Reb|Stl|Blk|TO |ORTG|DRTG|NetRating|
+-----------------+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+----+----+---------+
|Cole Swider      |1    |2   |0.833|1    |0.5  |5   |0  |1  |0  |0  |0  |177 |107 |70       |
|Haywood Highsmith|1    |22  |0.9  |0    |0.75 |9   |2  |4  |1  |1  |1  |142 |108 |34       |
|Nikola Jović     |2    |14  |0.732|0.333|0.6  |6.5 |2  |7.5|0.5|0  |1  |126 |101 |25       |
|Dru Smith        |3    |18  |0.667|0.333|0.667|5.3 |2.7|1  |1.3|0.3|0.7|129 |111 |18       |
|Orlando Robinson |2    |15  |0.557|0.375|1    |5.5 |3.5|4  |0.5|0.5|1.5|110 |109 |1        |
|Jimmy Butler     |4    |32.8|0.477|0.365|0.25 |16.5|3.5|7.3|1  |0.5|0.8|114 |114 |0        |
|Kevin Love       |3    |22  |0.526|0.286|0.4  |8.3 |2.3|8  |0.3|0  |1  |109 |110 |-1       |
|Bam Adebayo      |4    |33.3|0.578|0.525|0    |22.3|2.5|8  |0.8|1.5|3.3|108 |111 |-3       |
|Thomas Bryant    |5    |15.4|0.553|0.522|0    |6.6 |1  |4.4|0.8|0.2|1.2|106 |109 |-3       |
|Kyle Lowry       |5    |30.8|0.6  |0.5  |0.421|6   |4.2|4.2|1.4|0.6|1.8|106 |111 |-5       |
|Tyler Herro      |5    |38.6|0.555|0.448|0.432|26.2|4.2|4.8|1  |0  |2.2|108 |115 |-7       |
|Duncan Robinson  |5    |23.8|0.553|0.615|0.353|10.4|1  |2  |0.2|0  |0.4|110 |118 |-8       |
|Jamal Cain       |2    |14.5|0.444|0.8  |0    |4   |0  |3  |1.5|0  |0.5|93  |107 |-14      |
|Jaime Jaquez Jr. |5    |17.6|0.426|0.538|0.214|4.6 |1.8|2.6|1  |0.4|1.4|82  |110 |-28      |
|Josh Richardson  |2    |26.5|0.296|0.333|0.143|5   |2.5|3  |0.5|0  |0  |78  |116 |-38      |
|Caleb Martin     |1    |20  |0.143|0.25 |0    |2   |1  |3  |1  |0  |0  |50  |113 |-63      |
|R.J. Hampton     |1    |2   |0    |0    |0    |0   |0  |0  |0  |0  |0  |0   |121 |-121     |
+-----------------+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+----+----+---------+


[VaDe255]

I can’t believe we went into the year with J Rich, Dru Smith, and Kyle Lowry as our primary PG’s. Like really wow

Positionless basketball is the trend. Having versatile players like Jimmy, Bam and Tyler means that the traditional point guard role isn't as critical. In the playoffs the offense mostly runs through Jimmy or Bam. Herro can also create his own shot if it is really needed.

A closing lineup of Jimmy, Bam, Tyler, and any two of our solid 3&D players—like Caleb, Highsmith, or JRich—is well-suited for the postseason. Defensively, this lineup is robust and on offense those guys just need to occupy the corners and space the floor.

It was unfortunate they lost control of the game last night, but these are just growing pains. Starting JJJ, who isn't particularly known for three-point shooting, was questionable too. Highsmith could have been a better choice for the starting lineup. JJJ seems more suited to a bench role, stepping in for Jimmy when needed.

I have confidence in Heat roster's potential. We just have to wait a bit until Spo figures out the rotations and they figure out the late game execution, because there were some really questionable and rushed plays there as well.