Zinger and Jrue look AMAZING out there. We are legit.

[sam_I_am]

The biggest problem with Smart was that he wasn’t a threat to beat defenders off the dribble so he couldn’t penetrate and dish or break down the defense. Therefore he needed to be a 3 point shooter and to his credit he became okay often making most in clutch situations. When he did attack the rim he had to work so hard and needed a lot of craftiness just to get off a shot in the paint. It was always an adventure.

With Jrue playing with the Jays, you can see he can get to the rim and finish almost any time he wants. If the defense doesn’t react he gets an easy pull-up or a layup. If the defense does react it leaves a lot of wide open space for everybody else.

[lon3lytoaster]

People really don’t remember the start last year?

21-5 or whatever it was? Number one offense (which was mostly due to insane, unsustainable 3-point shooting) and top 10 defense (which didn't seem like it).

Prudent thing to do is wait at least 20 or so more games. But there are already differences in how we play even this early in the season that's difficult to ignore and hard not to get excited about.

Pretty much this. Yes, record and Orating wise they stood out last year but if you go back and watch the games, they really didn’t play that well or look very cohesive at all. It was all shooting and early season energy having had just lost in the finals.

Completely different vibe this year. Everyone’s playing a role, they’re back to playing strong defense and the offense with all the legitimate spacing is comically good right now. There were 4-5 times in that Pacers game JT had TJ McConnell or Aaron Nesmith on him and they literally couldn’t send help.

In short, last year, even with the wins they looked sloppy and had holes. Completely different story right now.

[ddb]

No, he was traded. Google that shot if you don't believe me.

Meanwhile. Celtics continue to excell without him taking up all the jays shots.

Addition by subtraction. Good riddance.

I know a lot of people really love Marcus Smart but may have taken your original comment a little too literally. The team absolutely needed to move on from Marcus. He very much felt like it was his team to run it seemed and JT deferred to him way, way too much. It was like Dumb & Dumber with him and Jaylen together and that was a huge part of some of this team’s mental collapses over the years.

Being able to then dump Black Hole Brogdon for Jrue was icing on the cake.

I’ll also never forget Marcus Smart throwing a half court heave with a full shot clock. He was an absolute train wreck at times.

The fact of the matter is Jrue Holiday & Derrick White are much better overall players than Marcus Smart. Period. Jrue & Derrick make their teammates better, they're more trustworthy, and they do much more net positive stuff than Smart could ever dream of. Sorry, but that's the cold hard truth.
Marcus can be like Jrue & DW for a game....Or a half. Or a quarter. But his inconsistencies really hurt the team.

[Fierce1]

Meanwhile. Celtics continue to excell without him taking up all the jays shots.

Addition by subtraction. Good riddance.

I know a lot of people really love Marcus Smart but may have taken your original comment a little too literally. The team absolutely needed to move on from Marcus. He very much felt like it was his team to run it seemed and JT deferred to him way, way too much. It was like Dumb & Dumber with him and Jaylen together and that was a huge part of some of this team’s mental collapses over the years.

Being able to then dump Black Hole Brogdon for Jrue was icing on the cake.

I’ll also never forget Marcus Smart throwing a half court heave with a full shot clock. He was an absolute train wreck at times.

The fact of the matter is Jrue Holiday & Derrick White are much better overall players than Marcus Smart. Period. Jrue & Derrick make their teammates better, they're more trustworthy, and they do much more net positive stuff than Smart could ever dream of. Sorry, but that's the cold hard truth.
Marcus can be like Jrue & DW for a game....Or a half. Or a quarter. But his inconsistencies really hurt the team.

Bingo!

[sam_I_am]

People really don’t remember the start last year?

21-5 or whatever it was? Number one offense (which was mostly due to insane, unsustainable 3-point shooting) and top 10 defense (which didn't seem like it).

Prudent thing to do is wait at least 20 or so more games. But there are already differences in how we play even this early in the season that's difficult to ignore and hard not to get excited about.

Pretty much this. Yes, record and Orating wise they stood out last year but if you go back and watch the games, they really didn’t play that well or look very cohesive at all. It was all shooting and early season energy having had just lost in the finals.

Completely different vibe this year. Everyone’s playing a role, they’re back to playing strong defense and the offense with all the legitimate spacing is comically good right now. There were 4-5 times in that Pacers game JT had TJ McConnell or Aaron Nesmith on him and they literally couldn’t send help.

In short, last year, even with the wins they looked sloppy and had holes. Completely different story right now.

I think that’s a great point. Last year the Celtics treated Oct/Nov like they were already in the playoffs when the competition (like Philly and Harden/Embiid) was getting into shape and trying to build chemistry. This year guys like Brown, for example, look like they need a few weeks of training camp to shake off rust and they are still rolling. This is different. It’s still possible teams will make an adjustment that works and brings this team back to earth but I don’t see how.

[Bad-Thoma]

People really don’t remember the start last year?

Couldn't of happened, Smart was here.

[31to6]

in the post-game thread of the Pacers game

I really do love Smart but the upgrade from him to Jrue is unreal

I also love Marcus, but he's class clown through and through. And you can win like that, but it's harder.

Jrue is just a locked-in jock. A smart/kind/pleasant one, by all accounts -- but I don't think I've seen him smile once. And I don't need to! Until he's sitting at the podium with a trophy.

He has also gone four games -- including when the Celtics have huge leads -- without doing anything stupid. You KNOW that by now Marcus would have tried at least several between-the-legs/off-the-glass/no-look passes once the Celtics were up 15 or 20. And that's not only a good way to get the lead back down to 10 or 15 pretty quickly, it also seeps into the team psyche that our PG is NOT fundamentally serious nor reliable.

Think of the personalities the Celtics have had at PG:
IT --> chip-on-shoulder pit bull
Kyrie --> temperamental misanthrope
Kemba --> THE nicest guy. so nice. so friendly.
Marcus --> chip-on-shoulder pit bull, prone to losing focus
Jrue --> balllllllllllller only about ball

[shackles10]

By the way, KP has said he doesn't like the "Zinger" nickname, he's been discouraging everyone from using it since he was playing in Spain. He prefers people just call him KP. In one interview he was asked whether there was a nickname he liked and he said "the unicorn" after thinking about it for a bit.

Everybody knows nicknames are given to you and aren't picked yourself. Sorry Zinger, that's how it is lol.

[Jaqua92]

in the post-game thread of the Pacers game

I really do love Smart but the upgrade from him to Jrue is unreal

I also love Marcus, but he's class clown through and through. And you can win like that, but it's harder.

Jrue is just a locked-in jock. A smart/kind/pleasant one, by all accounts -- but I don't think I've seen him smile once. And I don't need to! Until he's sitting at the podium with a trophy.

He has also gone four games -- including when the Celtics have huge leads -- without doing anything stupid. You KNOW that by now Marcus would have tried at least several between-the-legs/off-the-glass/no-look passes once the Celtics were up 15 or 20. And that's not only a good way to get the lead back down to 10 or 15 pretty quickly, it also seeps into the team psyche that our PG is NOT fundamentally serious nor reliable.

Think of the personalities the Celtics have had at PG:
IT --> chip-on-shoulder pit bull
Kyrie --> temperamental misanthrope
Kemba --> THE nicest guy. so nice. so friendly.
Marcus --> chip-on-shoulder pit bull, prone to losing focus
Jrue --> balllllllllllller only about ball

Nail on the head.

They're free.



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[lon3lytoaster]

Meanwhile. Celtics continue to excell without him taking up all the jays shots.

Addition by subtraction. Good riddance.

I know a lot of people really love Marcus Smart but may have taken your original comment a little too literally. The team absolutely needed to move on from Marcus. He very much felt like it was his team to run it seemed and JT deferred to him way, way too much. It was like Dumb & Dumber with him and Jaylen together and that was a huge part of some of this team’s mental collapses over the years.

Being able to then dump Black Hole Brogdon for Jrue was icing on the cake.

I’ll also never forget Marcus Smart throwing a half court heave with a full shot clock. He was an absolute train wreck at times.

The fact of the matter is Jrue Holiday & Derrick White are much better overall players than Marcus Smart. Period. Jrue & Derrick make their teammates better, they're more trustworthy, and they do much more net positive stuff than Smart could ever dream of. Sorry, but that's the cold hard truth.
Marcus can be like Jrue & DW for a game....Or a half. Or a quarter. But his inconsistencies really hurt the team.

Yep, yep. Couldn't agree more. Not having Marcus around seems to have let DW flourish even more. I thought he had a really strong year as a starter last year, and he looked amazing when Marcus was out for those weeks but he's back on an even higher level now. I am still shocked to see him drilling pull-up threes after that first half season with us but my lord, I hope we get that extension done in the summer. I've gone full 180 on him since his early days and I love how vocal he's been so far.

[playa-hater]

in the post-game thread of the Pacers game

I really do love Smart but the upgrade from him to Jrue is unreal

I also love Marcus, but he's class clown through and through. And you can win like that, but it's harder.

Jrue is just a locked-in jock. A smart/kind/pleasant one, by all accounts -- but I don't think I've seen him smile once. And I don't need to! Until he's sitting at the podium with a trophy.

He has also gone four games -- including when the Celtics have huge leads -- without doing anything stupid. You KNOW that by now Marcus would have tried at least several between-the-legs/off-the-glass/no-look passes once the Celtics were up 15 or 20. And that's not only a good way to get the lead back down to 10 or 15 pretty quickly, it also seeps into the team psyche that our PG is NOT fundamentally serious nor reliable.

Think of the personalities the Celtics have had at PG:
IT --> chip-on-shoulder pit bull
Kyrie --> temperamental misanthrope
Kemba --> THE nicest guy. so nice. so friendly.
Marcus --> chip-on-shoulder pit bull, prone to losing focus
Jrue --> balllllllllllller only about ball

Nail on the head.

They're free.



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I will doiuble.. or triple .. this nail on head

[Riverwalk2021]

I love how Jru has come in and played within himself. Doing a bit of everything but not trying to do so much. Efficient. In MIL, he had to carry their team because of injuries, and he's clearly better and more efficient in a supporting role. The perfect fit for him in Boston. He can honestly be the #5 option and have a huge impact on both ends.

[Parasite]

People really don’t remember the start last year?

Couldn't of happened, Smart was here.

If you can’t tell the difference in play between last years team and the team so far this year I don’t know what to tell you.

[165bows]

People really don’t remember the start last year?

Couldn't of happened, Smart was here.

If you can’t tell the difference in play between last years team and the team so far this year I don’t know what to tell you.

They were 21-5, had 11 double digit wins, and smoked full-squad eventual Champs Denver by 20.

[BK_2020]

I think the 2023-24 iteration is better than the last season's team but it's a bit of revisionism to say we were only good in the early months of last season because of shooting luck and we tried whereas other teams were just pretending to try. Even if our offense cooled off, we still finished the season as the #2 offense and #3 defense, and would have gone to the finals were it not for a convergence of multiple super unlikely things happening all at once (the Heat shooting luck, the entire Celtics team's bad shooting luck, Jaylen just crashing, Tatum's ankle). We were a genuinely excellent team last season, even minus the very real shooting luck early on. Just not as good as the team right now looks to be.

[Bad-Thoma]

People really don’t remember the start last year?

Couldn't of happened, Smart was here.

If you can’t tell the difference in play between last years team and the team so far this year I don’t know what to tell you.

I can see a difference. I feel like Tatum has continued to level up and grow up and I feel like the overall talent ceiling is drastically improved. But the team started out spectacular last season with Smart here. Every season of his career, with many drastically different rosters, the team made the playoffs. I can't believe people don't like him considering the heart he played with.

Brad's move this season were brilliant, I'm sad to see Smart go but I 100% agree with what Brad did starting with the Smart trade. Heh heh, Smart trade. But people acting like Smart was holding the team back are ridiculous and always attack with hyperbole and very little substance.

[sam_I_am]

Honestly, the competition so far hasn’t been great. The next stretch of 5 games in 7 days including road games in Minny and Philly will tell us a lot about the team and the ability of bench players to play meaningful minutes.

[celticfan42487]

Couldn't of happened, Smart was here.

If you can’t tell the difference in play between last years team and the team so far this year I don’t know what to tell you.

I can see a difference. I feel like Tatum has continued to level up and grow up and I feel like the overall talent ceiling is drastically improved. But the team started out spectacular last season with Smart here. Every season of his career, with many drastically different rosters, the team made the playoffs. I can't believe people don't like him considering the heart he played with.

Brad's move this season were brilliant, I'm sad to see Smart go but I 100% agree with what Brad did starting with the Smart trade. Heh heh, Smart trade. But people acting like Smart was holding the team back are ridiculous and always attack with hyperbole and very little substance.

Yeah last year this time we were setting NBA records for offensive rating. And that lasted for about half the NBA season. So it's hard to claim we look better than last year.

Now true it was teams daring our guys to shoot and well, they were and they were making them. So our NBA historic offense was built off the back of Smart, White and Horford knocking down 3s.

This year it's defenses having to respect historic great 3 point shooters in KP and Jrue and career okay 3 point shooter White in a 5 out offense that is leaving Tatum in one on one situations that he hasn't seen since we last had an all-star talent play PG.

Tatum hasn't improved, his situation has though. He's dominated one on one situations for years. Even back to when we had Kemba and teams gave Kemba respect (even if his legs didn't demand they should).

The problem is the NBA defenses can't CHOOSE to not play Tatum 1 on 1 with the weakest shooter in the starting 5 White who for his career is an average 3 point shooter.Advance stats will tell you every time it's better to just stick with single coverage. So this gravy train for Tatum isn't going to stop.

They'll try different stuff and say F it and attack Jaylen Brown and Derrick White's playmaking skills in the playoffs and throw more aggressive coverage Tatum's way. But for the regular season? Nah they're just going to play it by the advance stats since they have no time to practice and create custom defenses for personnel.

If this starting 5's five out offense does fail, besides due to health, it will be due to Jaylen Brown and White's lack of dribbling and passing skills being exploited.

[LewisnotMiller]

Couldn't of happened, Smart was here.

If you can’t tell the difference in play between last years team and the team so far this year I don’t know what to tell you.

I can see a difference. I feel like Tatum has continued to level up and grow up and I feel like the overall talent ceiling is drastically improved. But the team started out spectacular last season with Smart here. Every season of his career, with many drastically different rosters, the team made the playoffs. I can't believe people don't like him considering the heart he played with.

Brad's move this season were brilliant, I'm sad to see Smart go but I 100% agree with what Brad did starting with the Smart trade. Heh heh, Smart trade. But people acting like Smart was holding the team back are ridiculous and always attack with hyperbole and very little substance.

I'm somewhat with you. Sure he flopped, but he was also willing to sacrifice his body constantly. And as much as his shooting was inconsistent, the guy was a terrible shooter who got incrementally better every year...which speaks to a bucket of work being put in.

Ultimately I'm super happy, and was super ready to switch the inconsistency of Smart for the controlled, professional version in Jrue. But I respect Marcus, and I hope he's appreciated in Memphis. Too many people mail it in. He doesn't.

[31to6]

If you can’t tell the difference in play between last years team and the team so far this year I don’t know what to tell you.

I can see a difference. I feel like Tatum has continued to level up and grow up and I feel like the overall talent ceiling is drastically improved. But the team started out spectacular last season with Smart here. Every season of his career, with many drastically different rosters, the team made the playoffs. I can't believe people don't like him considering the heart he played with.

Brad's move this season were brilliant, I'm sad to see Smart go but I 100% agree with what Brad did starting with the Smart trade. Heh heh, Smart trade. But people acting like Smart was holding the team back are ridiculous and always attack with hyperbole and very little substance.

I'm somewhat with you. Sure he flopped, but he was also willing to sacrifice his body constantly. And as much as his shooting was inconsistent, the guy was a terrible shooter who got incrementally better every year...which speaks to a bucket of work being put in.

Ultimately I'm super happy, and was super ready to switch the inconsistency of Smart for the controlled, professional version in Jrue. But I respect Marcus, and I hope he's appreciated in Memphis. Too many people mail it in. He doesn't.

Amen to the 'no Smart slander' sentiment. Smart was great. Jrue -- to agree with the title of this thread -- looks AMAZING.

Do not believe it's slander to say (as I did above) that Smart was prone to losing his focus, and that seemed to have an effect on the whole team given his role as PG and heart/soul/leader.

I *really* wish the Cs had won a title with him.
I now hope for more than one with Jrue.