Hornets Lineup Talk

[Rich4114]

Probably time to make a swap in the starting lineup.

G. Hayward - T. Rozier - P. Washington - L. Ball - M. Williams
109.8 Orat 120.4 Drating -10.6 Net Rating.

Main Bench Units have negative net ratings too so not much we can lose.

The problems IMO so far are:

LaMelo not being able to make shots he normally makes
Terry DOMINATING the ball and making bad decisions with it - as usual we live and die by how hot he is with his shot
Really weird rotation decisions and combo's of players

I think the pieces are there to improve it, but we're still paper thin at PG and C.

I think they'll just keep this starting lineup forever until there's an injury, trade or contracts expire. What they SHOULD do though is bite the bullet and either move Terry or Gordon to the bench. They should also stop using Terry at PG if you're also going to play Theo. There is no good reason to play Theo unless he's your backup PG and LaMelo isn't on the floor. Why Cliff insists on point Terry and playing LaMelo and Theo together is beyond me. And I'd like (hope) to think that he's only doing this odd LaMelo rotation while he gets more ramped up, but I get the sense pulling him half way through the opening quarter is hurting his rhythm and overall performance.

[KembaWalker]

As soon as game 10 is over trade terry and gordo for whatever, start miller and miles, move up mcgowens and nsj in the rotation, fire Clifford and bring in literally anybody under the age of 50 that has an inkling of understanding of modern basketball

[fatlever]

We have half of a 15 man roster that's either injured or should not in any way ever be part of a rotation of a winning basketball team.

We need a better Coach than clifford, but the problem with this basketball team is Way Beyond his control. This is the result of 4 years of casual Mitch thinking status quo and loading up on second round draft picks was the way to go.

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[fatlever]

30% from 3 (29th)
9.3 made 3s (29th)

[yosemiteben]

Point:

Read on Twitter

Counterpoint:

Read on Twitter

[Diop]

Theis can't get off the bench for Indiana and is getting frustrated, I'd happily trade Bouknight's expiring for him with a 2nd, he can take Richards minutes.

then we just need a backup point guard

[Diop]

i guess the front office will wait to see if this squad will figure it out??

gonna be tough for a bit

[Rich4114]

Terry is 19.5% from 3pt range and LaMelo is 26.7% from 3pt range. That's pretty awful. The good news is, no way it remains anywhere in that range of bad. But how are they so off? Every social media clip I see is them taking 3's. How do you take 5000 3's in one IG post, make most and then shoot like this in games? Is the spacing off? (I suspect it is). Is it bad shot selection (certainly seen a lot of questionable ones by both) and is it a lack of flow/cohesion? (most likely). They need to get this right ASAP.

[fatlever]

Terry is 19.5% from 3pt range and LaMelo is 26.7% from 3pt range. That's pretty awful. The good news is, no way it remains anywhere in that range of bad. But how are they so off? Every social media clip I see is them taking 3's. How do you take 5000 3's in one IG post, make most and then shoot like this in games? Is the spacing off? (I suspect it is). Is it bad shot selection (certainly seen a lot of questionable ones by both) and is it a lack of flow/cohesion? (most likely). They need to get this right ASAP.

It's a continuation from last year when our three-point shooting fell off a cliff (pun intended) when Borrego left.



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[Rich4114]

Terry is 19.5% from 3pt range and LaMelo is 26.7% from 3pt range. That's pretty awful. The good news is, no way it remains anywhere in that range of bad. But how are they so off? Every social media clip I see is them taking 3's. How do you take 5000 3's in one IG post, make most and then shoot like this in games? Is the spacing off? (I suspect it is). Is it bad shot selection (certainly seen a lot of questionable ones by both) and is it a lack of flow/cohesion? (most likely). They need to get this right ASAP.

It's a continuation from last year when our three-point shooting fell off a cliff (pun intended) when Borrego left.



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I think it's just way less passing and movement on offense. Which was always a problem with Clifford's offensive system and the staple of JB's offensive system. I do see LaMelo running around with the ball looking for plays but they mostly aren't there. Then Terry gets the ball, blinders go on and he's ready to fire a highly contested shot.

I'm still a strong believer that we won't win as long as Terry Rozier is on the team because in this environment, he will have the green light to go hero ball whenever he wants.

Is there a stat that tracks how many touches a team has on offense before a shot or turnover?

[JMAC3]

As soon as game 10 is over trade terry and gordo for whatever, start miller and miles, move up mcgowens and nsj in the rotation, fire Clifford and bring in literally anybody under the age of 50 that has an inkling of understanding of modern basketball

So tank 10 games into the year, brilliant haha... Cmon man Gordon and Terry aren't worse than McGowens and Nsj

[Rich4114]

As soon as game 10 is over trade terry and gordo for whatever, start miller and miles, move up mcgowens and nsj in the rotation, fire Clifford and bring in literally anybody under the age of 50 that has an inkling of understanding of modern basketball

So tank 10 games into the year, brilliant haha... Cmon man Gordon and Terry aren't worse than McGowens and Nsj

I don't think that was a serious take. But maybe it was? We're all pissed about this team and fed up. We as a fan base need wins more than any other right now.

[fatlever]

I just want Mitch in the front office to be realistic and proactive about this season as it unfolds. If we are 30 games into the season and we're 10 - 20, do what you got to do to gut the team and start getting back some young prospects and draft picks. Don't hang on to Gordon and Terry after the deadline only to realize you have zero chance of making the playoffs.

This team has constructed was never given a realistic chance of competing for playoffs. Mitch as usual sat on the fence trying to straddle both saving assets / rebuilding for the future and competing for playoffs.

We've been screaming for years that we just want this front office to pick a direction and stick with it instead of trying to always straddle the fence, that's how we end up winning between 30 and 40 games every year.

Either keep bottoming out collecting high draft picks selling off players who not in the timeline for draft picks and shuffling in and out young players seeing if any of them pan out

Or

Put a competitive team on the floor with some actual veterans who know how to win and cut loose half of the six or seven projects stuck at the back half of the roster.

It's probably too late for the second option



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[Rich4114]

I just want Mitch in the front office to be realistic and proactive about this season as it unfolds. If we are 30 games into the season and we're 10 - 20, do what you got to do to gut the team and start getting back some young prospects and draft picks. Don't hang on to Gordon and Terry after the deadline only to realize you have zero chance of making the playoffs.

This team has constructed was never given a realistic chance of competing for playoffs. Mitch as usual sat on the fence trying to straddle both saving assets / rebuilding for the future and competing for playoffs.

We've been screaming for years that we just want this front office to pick a direction and stick with it instead of trying to always straddle the fence, that's how we end up winning between 30 and 40 games every year.

Either keep bottoming out collecting high draft picks selling off players who not in the timeline for draft picks and shuffling in and out young players seeing if any of them pan out

Or

Put a competitive team on the floor with some actual veterans who know how to win and cut loose half of the six or seven projects stuck at the back half of the roster.

It's probably too late for the second option



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The good news is if we don't compete this season and fail to make the playoffs, it is a near guarantee with new ownership that both Mitch and Cliff are gone. I cannot imagine they'd be willing to run it back this many years in a row of the exact same results over and over again.

And let's all be honest, if we simply got rid of Terry for cap relief I think most fans would easily be happy with that. But I think we can package him up with a prospect or two and land a vet that is a better fit for what this team needs to focus on. Haywards is in a similar boat because he's not being resigned. If we are 10-20 like you mentioned Fats, then there should be zero hesitation to move Hayward to the highest bidder trying to make a playoff push. He'd be a great fit on any competitive team. He's a good fit on this one too, but not if we aren't making the playoffs. He can also possibly be used to acquire a guy we'd want to target in free agency.

[KembaWalker]

As soon as game 10 is over trade terry and gordo for whatever, start miller and miles, move up mcgowens and nsj in the rotation, fire Clifford and bring in literally anybody under the age of 50 that has an inkling of understanding of modern basketball

So tank 10 games into the year, brilliant haha... Cmon man Gordon and Terry aren't worse than McGowens and Nsj

Sad thing is I don't even think losing terry, Hayward, and cliff for nothing would cost us more than a handful of games at most.

[SWedd523]

I just want Mitch in the front office to be realistic and proactive about this season as it unfolds. If we are 30 games into the season and we're 10 - 20, do what you got to do to gut the team and start getting back some young prospects and draft picks. Don't hang on to Gordon and Terry after the deadline only to realize you have zero chance of making the playoffs.

This team has constructed was never given a realistic chance of competing for playoffs. Mitch as usual sat on the fence trying to straddle both saving assets / rebuilding for the future and competing for playoffs.

We've been screaming for years that we just want this front office to pick a direction and stick with it instead of trying to always straddle the fence, that's how we end up winning between 30 and 40 games every year.

Either keep bottoming out collecting high draft picks selling off players who not in the timeline for draft picks and shuffling in and out young players seeing if any of them pan out

Or

Put a competitive team on the floor with some actual veterans who know how to win and cut loose half of the six or seven projects stuck at the back half of the roster.

It's probably too late for the second option



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Is this a copy and paste?

I feel like many of us have made that exact statement for something like the past 8 years or so

[Bassman]

Sadly, I don’t have faith in Mitch being able to make an effective and valuable trade early, or at the deadline. Yes, Gordon will have value as a quality vet & expiring for a team needing playoff boost power. Rozier…not so much.

[yosemiteben]

My view is that any statements about the state of the team or our plans for this season are premature until we see how the Miles Bridges situation unfolds.

I'm as annoyed with anyone about our start, but if Melo is actually still catching up then we are likely playing without our top 2 guys being at full strength and are relying on contributions from several young guys that are continuing to grow and find their way (thinking primarily of Mark, Miller, and Thor). I'm not in freak out mode yet.

If Miles definitively doesn't come back, then I'm pretty much ready to throw in the towel on the season.

[JDR720]

Lineup when Terry and Miles are back.

Melo - Rozier
Gordon - Theo
Miller - Miles
PJ - Thor
Mark - Nick

Starting lineup is pretty balanced. Rozier is backup PG so Theo can be an off-ball 3pt shooter (not good options available for this role).

If Miles isn't back, one of our other guards (Ish, McGowans,Smith etc.) get in. I don't think Frank can play with Thor and Nick, there is zero spacing.

Pretty apparent that this team needs at least one good 40% 3pt shooter. All our guards, besides Melo, Rozier and Gordon, are 33% or worse for their careers or are rookies.

[JMAC3]

Theo as the off-ball shooter? The guy shooting 11% from 3 and under 30% the previous 2 seasons?

Realistically I think Clifford will keep the same lineup even after Miles returns. Miles will be out of shape and out of rhythm and probably only be able to play 20-25 mins the first 5 games anyways. Clifford will probably wait until Miles forces his hand by playing so well that he moves him to starters.

Miles and Miller are versatile too, so they can play 2/3, 3/4 or 2/4 as the first subs off the bench.