Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now

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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#41 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:22 pm

cgf wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
cgf wrote:FWIW Brunson wasn't much better before going off on the Bucks. But yeah, Julius needs to get the ball to start going into the hoop soon. He's doing everything else well; still a beast on the boards and a very good secondary playmaker...but if he's not scoring that hurts us a lot.


As bad as Brunson has been, he’s been much better than Julius. Even before the Bucks game. Julius gets a few dimes and rebounds here and there, but his effort on defense is atrocious. Can’t even say it’s because of an injury since he’s real quick to try and throw up another brick on a fast break. Now the one thing that he had to his name last year (scoring) is nonexistent and he’s completely useless.


You can't defend Brunson and then bring up defense, Brunson makes Randle look like Giannis defensively :lol:

And Brunson has even fewer assists. Julius's shooting/finishing has been awful, and that can't continue, but he's doing the other things well.


And as bad a defender as Brunson is, he at least gives effort on that end. Idc about what Julius’ assists look like when he legit only passes after holding the ball for 10 sec and doesn’t see a shot for himself. He’s been awful on both ends of the floor and there’s plenty of clips that show his lack of effort. Especially when his shot isn’t falling i.e. the first 5 games of the season.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#42 » by jokeboy86 » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:23 pm

hugepatsfan wrote:He's playing terribly to start but it's a small sample size. I'm not worried about him sucking like this, but big picture questions remain.

There's always going to be an issue with Randle of how you work his game into a true contending team. His skill set is that of a high usage, high volume scorer. The more of a "supporting" role you put him in, the more you diminish what makes him a high level talent. On some level he reminds me of Isiah Thomas with the Celtics a few years back. He was fun to watch and an all NBA caliber guy at his peak, but there was always the issue that him being such a key player puts a ceiling on your team and his skill set didn't profile well as a guy playing second or third fiddle to other stars.

I think Randle is meant to be the #1/#2 on a second or third tier team vs. ever having a real role on a true contnder.


Problem is like I said in the game thread he will always think he's the best player on the team he's on(barring except playing with Lebron/Steph/Curry). The guy has always played with a chip on his shoulder for most of his career which on one hand is admirable because that can serve as motivation but also makes him stubborn and moody as hell. That's why the fear could be if he's traded away from the Knicks to a non-contender or a team where he has a lesser role he might pout.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#43 » by cgf » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:33 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
cgf wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
As bad as Brunson has been, he’s been much better than Julius. Even before the Bucks game. Julius gets a few dimes and rebounds here and there, but his effort on defense is atrocious. Can’t even say it’s because of an injury since he’s real quick to try and throw up another brick on a fast break. Now the one thing that he had to his name last year (scoring) is nonexistent and he’s completely useless.


You can't defend Brunson and then bring up defense, Brunson makes Randle look like Giannis defensively :lol:

And Brunson has even fewer assists. Julius's shooting/finishing has been awful, and that can't continue, but he's doing the other things well.


And as bad a defender as Brunson is, he at least gives effort on that end. Idc about what Julius’ assists look like when he legit only passes after holding the ball for 10 sec and doesn’t see a shot for himself. He’s been awful on both ends of the floor and there’s plenty of clips that show his lack of effort. Especially when his shot isn’t falling i.e. the first 5 games of the season.


Only problem with this line of reasoning is that Brunson holds the ball even longer than Randle, only to pass it less.

...and he makes plenty of business decisions defensively too. We just forgive him for them because he's crafty & skilled instead of a powerful brute...so people enjoy his style of play more...and because Brunson can't make as big of a difference defensively even when he goes all out on that end; so it doesn't feel like we're losing as much.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#44 » by 3toheadmelo » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:34 pm

Dirk wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Remember when Knicks wanted to trade for Embiid using Randle as the main value?

what?


No point editing your posts. Zimpy has a backup of the originals.

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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#45 » by DimesandKnicks » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:38 pm

cgf wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
cgf wrote:FWIW Brunson wasn't much better before going off on the Bucks. But yeah, Julius needs to get the ball to start going into the hoop soon. He's doing everything else well; still a beast on the boards and a very good secondary playmaker...but if he's not scoring that hurts us a lot.


As bad as Brunson has been, he’s been much better than Julius. Even before the Bucks game. Julius gets a few dimes and rebounds here and there, but his effort on defense is atrocious. Can’t even say it’s because of an injury since he’s real quick to try and throw up another brick on a fast break. Now the one thing that he had to his name last year (scoring) is nonexistent and he’s completely useless.


You can't defend Brunson and then bring up defense, Brunson makes Randle look like Giannis defensively :lol:

And Brunson has even fewer assists. Julius's shooting/finishing has been awful, and that can't continue, but he's doing the other things well.


He also turns the ball over less. Randle isn’t a good passer or good playmaker. He’s just an out of control player that drives into enough bodies jumps in the air and hopes to god he finds someone to pass to. And again I’ve never watched Brunson and felt he was a liability defensively plus he’s among the elite charge drawers in the league.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#46 » by cgf » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:38 pm

jokeboy86 wrote:
hugepatsfan wrote:He's playing terribly to start but it's a small sample size. I'm not worried about him sucking like this, but big picture questions remain.

There's always going to be an issue with Randle of how you work his game into a true contending team. His skill set is that of a high usage, high volume scorer. The more of a "supporting" role you put him in, the more you diminish what makes him a high level talent. On some level he reminds me of Isiah Thomas with the Celtics a few years back. He was fun to watch and an all NBA caliber guy at his peak, but there was always the issue that him being such a key player puts a ceiling on your team and his skill set didn't profile well as a guy playing second or third fiddle to other stars.

I think Randle is meant to be the #1/#2 on a second or third tier team vs. ever having a real role on a true contnder.


Problem is like I said in the game thread he will always think he's the best player on the team he's on(barring except playing with Lebron/Steph/Curry). The guy has always played with a chip on his shoulder for most of his career which on one hand is admirable because that can serve as motivation but also makes him stubborn and moody as hell. That's why the fear could be if he's traded away from the Knicks to a non-contender or a team where he has a lesser role he might pout.


That's exactly what people said when Brunson was brought in, and Randle responded by letting Brunson run the team while Julius had the best or second best season of his career. If Randle was happy to let Brunson take the ball out of his hands, why would you assume that he would have more of an issue with having an even better player take the ball out of his hands?

Until there's some evidence of this actually being a problem, I don't see why you would worry about this any more than you would with any other player :dontknow:
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#47 » by DimesandKnicks » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:39 pm

Dirk wrote:
cgf wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
As bad as Brunson has been, he’s been much better than Julius. Even before the Bucks game. Julius gets a few dimes and rebounds here and there, but his effort on defense is atrocious. Can’t even say it’s because of an injury since he’s real quick to try and throw up another brick on a fast break. Now the one thing that he had to his name last year (scoring) is nonexistent and he’s completely useless.


You can't defend Brunson and then bring up defense, Brunson makes Randle look like Giannis defensively :lol:

And Brunson has even fewer assists. Julius's shooting/finishing has been awful, and that can't continue, but he's doing the other things well.


Brunson is really bad on defense for the Knicks?


No
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#48 » by cgf » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:46 pm

DimesandKnicks wrote:
cgf wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
As bad as Brunson has been, he’s been much better than Julius. Even before the Bucks game. Julius gets a few dimes and rebounds here and there, but his effort on defense is atrocious. Can’t even say it’s because of an injury since he’s real quick to try and throw up another brick on a fast break. Now the one thing that he had to his name last year (scoring) is nonexistent and he’s completely useless.


You can't defend Brunson and then bring up defense, Brunson makes Randle look like Giannis defensively :lol:

And Brunson has even fewer assists. Julius's shooting/finishing has been awful, and that can't continue, but he's doing the other things well.


He also turns the ball over less. Randle isn’t a good passer or good playmaker. He’s just an out of control player that drives into enough bodies jumps in the air and hopes to god he finds someone to pass to. And again I’ve never watched Brunson and felt he was a liability defensively plus he’s among the elite charge drawers in the league.


Jalen does turn the ball over less, but that doesn't mean Randle doesn't have very good vision, it means Julius doesn't have an elite handle like Brunson does...and that he puts too much heat on his passes. Go to NBA.com and re-watch Randle's 31 assists this season, it doesn't take that long. Most of them are not from him leaping into the air and needing a bailout, most of them are from his drives collapsing the D or him reading the court while waiting for a double-team.

And that's the tricky thing with the eye test. When we like a player and he sacrifices his body on the defensive end, we tend to have a more favorable view of their defense, even when the metrics say that Brunson is worse for our defense than Randle; despite the plays that Randle takes off or doesn't want to the risk picking up a foul on.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#49 » by TheGreenArrow » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:53 pm

cgf wrote:
DimesandKnicks wrote:
cgf wrote:
You can't defend Brunson and then bring up defense, Brunson makes Randle look like Giannis defensively :lol:

And Brunson has even fewer assists. Julius's shooting/finishing has been awful, and that can't continue, but he's doing the other things well.


He also turns the ball over less. Randle isn’t a good passer or good playmaker. He’s just an out of control player that drives into enough bodies jumps in the air and hopes to god he finds someone to pass to. And again I’ve never watched Brunson and felt he was a liability defensively plus he’s among the elite charge drawers in the league.


Jalen does turn the ball over less, but that doesn't mean Randle doesn't have very good vision, it means Julius doesn't have an elite handle like Brunson does...and that he puts too much heat on his passes. Go to NBA.com and re-watch Randle's 31 assists this season, it doesn't take that long. Most of them are not from him leaping into the air and needing a bailout, most of them are from his drives collapsing the D or him reading the court while waiting for a double-team.

And that's the tricky thing with the eye test. When we like a player and he sacrifices his body on the defensive end, we tend to have a more favorable view of their defense, even when the metrics say that Brunson is worse for our defense than Randle; despite the plays that Randle takes off or doesn't want to the risk picking up a foul on.


:lol: :lol:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#50 » by TheGreenArrow » Sat Nov 4, 2023 3:56 pm

Don’t pay this cgf dude any mind Folksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He’s clearly related or has some affiliation with Julius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trying the “whataboutism “ putting blame on Brunson(who’s been the least of our problems) to deflect how horrendous of a basketball player Julius Randle is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#51 » by SashaTheMachine » Sat Nov 4, 2023 4:01 pm

His on court mannerisms are harder to watch than his gameplay at times. Seems like dude isn’t happy if he isn’t the one to make the big shot in crunch time, as opposed to Brunson. Just a harder watch, than when he was with LAL.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#52 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Sat Nov 4, 2023 4:02 pm

cgf wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
cgf wrote:
You can't defend Brunson and then bring up defense, Brunson makes Randle look like Giannis defensively :lol:

And Brunson has even fewer assists. Julius's shooting/finishing has been awful, and that can't continue, but he's doing the other things well.


And as bad a defender as Brunson is, he at least gives effort on that end. Idc about what Julius’ assists look like when he legit only passes after holding the ball for 10 sec and doesn’t see a shot for himself. He’s been awful on both ends of the floor and there’s plenty of clips that show his lack of effort. Especially when his shot isn’t falling i.e. the first 5 games of the season.


Only problem with this line of reasoning is that Brunson holds the ball even longer than Randle, only to pass it less.

...and he makes plenty of business decisions defensively too. We just forgive him for them because he's crafty & skilled instead of a powerful brute...so people enjoy his style of play more...and because Brunson can't make as big of a difference defensively even when he goes all out on that end; so it doesn't feel like we're losing as much.


We forgive Brunson for not being the best defender mostly because 1. He’s not as capable due to height and 2. He gives more effort on that end whether his shot is falling or not. Nobody minds Brunson having the ball too much because he’s a low turnover player who is efficient with the ball in his hands.

The same can’t be said for Randle on any of this. He’s played out of control every year, his shot just fell a bit more a couple years more than others to fool people into thinking he’s this All-NBA talent. He’s a capable defender, but when his shot isn’t falling or he doesn’t get the ball, he just doesn’t care on that end? This is supposed to be a star on a playoff team and this is how he acts? There’s no defending this.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#53 » by UcanUwill » Sat Nov 4, 2023 4:15 pm

dockingsched wrote:Outside of Poole/Kuz, there is no one more painful to watch than Randle. I wouldn’t even cheer for him if he was on my team cause it just encourages the terrible play.

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Honestly, those arent terrible shots, at least he used to make it, he is NBA caliber scorer. The consistent problem with him, that he doesnt even care to do anything when he is off ball, but now even his shots arent falling.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#54 » by cgf » Sat Nov 4, 2023 5:19 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:Don’t pay this cgf dude any mind Folksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He’s clearly related or has some affiliation with Julius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trying the “whataboutism “ putting blame on Brunson(who’s been the least of our problems) to deflect how horrendous of a basketball player Julius Randle is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm not blaming anyone. My point is that it's been 6 games lol. Randle didn't get going until December last year and had the best season of his career. If Julius keeps shooting like this then obviously that's terrible, but I'm just not freaking out over 6 games.

I do think the guy gets more s*** than his game warrants because he gets there with strength & bullyball instead of skill & craftiness, so some of the critiques of his game just are not accurate...like the blackhole / ballhog stuff.

But I also still like RJ, Lavine, and Mobley a lot, despite how much crap people give them. So I may just have a soft spot for guys that get dumped on an unfair amount by people who won't then come back & praise them when they are playing well.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#55 » by ORLMagicGirl15 » Sat Nov 4, 2023 5:22 pm

It’s 5 games. He has a body of work that proves he can score much more efficiently.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#56 » by Buckeye-NBAFan » Sat Nov 4, 2023 5:30 pm

ORLMagicGirl15 wrote:It’s 5 games. He has a body of work that proves he can score much more efficiently.


2019: Good shooting
2020: Bad shooting
2021: Good shooting
2022: Bad shooting
2023: Good shooting
2024: ??

His body of work says he'll shoot poorly this year
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#57 » by Bob Ross » Sat Nov 4, 2023 5:30 pm

He has been horrendous in every way. Really disappointing
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#58 » by Clyde Frazier » Sat Nov 4, 2023 5:31 pm

Yep he's shooting terribly right now. Doesn't mean it's going to continue throughout the season.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#59 » by cgf » Sat Nov 4, 2023 5:43 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
cgf wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
And as bad a defender as Brunson is, he at least gives effort on that end. Idc about what Julius’ assists look like when he legit only passes after holding the ball for 10 sec and doesn’t see a shot for himself. He’s been awful on both ends of the floor and there’s plenty of clips that show his lack of effort. Especially when his shot isn’t falling i.e. the first 5 games of the season.


Only problem with this line of reasoning is that Brunson holds the ball even longer than Randle, only to pass it less.

...and he makes plenty of business decisions defensively too. We just forgive him for them because he's crafty & skilled instead of a powerful brute...so people enjoy his style of play more...and because Brunson can't make as big of a difference defensively even when he goes all out on that end; so it doesn't feel like we're losing as much.


We forgive Brunson for not being the best defender mostly because 1. He’s not as capable due to height and 2. He gives more effort on that end whether his shot is falling or not. Nobody minds Brunson having the ball too much because he’s a low turnover player who is efficient with the ball in his hands.

The same can’t be said for Randle on any of this. He’s played out of control every year, his shot just fell a bit more a couple years more than others to fool people into thinking he’s this All-NBA talent. He’s a capable defender, but when his shot isn’t falling or he doesn’t get the ball, he just doesn’t care on that end? This is supposed to be a star on a playoff team and this is how he acts? There’s no defending this.


Lemme preface this by saying I'm not coming for Brunson at all, I love having him on the team and I think bringing him in was absolutely massive for Julius & the rest of the team. I'm only bringing him up because I feel like there is a double standard that exists between the two of them...and my theory is that it's because Brunson's style is very popular, while Randle's bullyball is much more out of vogue.


I acknowledged your point about Brunson not being able to make the same impact defensively as Julius can when he's locked in, the same way Julius can't dribble through traffic like Jalen, but it's not just that. We forgive Brunson for the exact same business decisions on the defensive end that end up getting clipped & shared on twitter when Julius makes them.

I'm not talking about plays where JB is just too small or slow to make the play, but ones where he lets a guy go right past him because he doesn't want to pick up a foul or because he's too tired from the previous offensive possession...the kind of plays that all high volume scorers make in the regular season, because that s*** is a grind. I'm not saying this to crucify Brunson, but to say that it's part of having to carry a huge scoring load through an 82 game season.

I also don't think it's about caring, if anything Julius seems like the kind of guy who cares too much and so puts too much pressure on himself when things aren't going great. But this is getting into armchair psychology that is totally subjective, as we can't really prove what's going on in his head on those plays either way.
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Re: Julius Randle this season,this is awful right now 

Post#60 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Sat Nov 4, 2023 5:51 pm

cgf wrote:
bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
cgf wrote:
Only problem with this line of reasoning is that Brunson holds the ball even longer than Randle, only to pass it less.

...and he makes plenty of business decisions defensively too. We just forgive him for them because he's crafty & skilled instead of a powerful brute...so people enjoy his style of play more...and because Brunson can't make as big of a difference defensively even when he goes all out on that end; so it doesn't feel like we're losing as much.


We forgive Brunson for not being the best defender mostly because 1. He’s not as capable due to height and 2. He gives more effort on that end whether his shot is falling or not. Nobody minds Brunson having the ball too much because he’s a low turnover player who is efficient with the ball in his hands.

The same can’t be said for Randle on any of this. He’s played out of control every year, his shot just fell a bit more a couple years more than others to fool people into thinking he’s this All-NBA talent. He’s a capable defender, but when his shot isn’t falling or he doesn’t get the ball, he just doesn’t care on that end? This is supposed to be a star on a playoff team and this is how he acts? There’s no defending this.


Lemme preface this by saying I'm not coming for Brunson at all, I love having him on the team and I think bringing him in was absolutely massive for Julius & the rest of the team. I'm only bringing him up because I feel like there is a double standard that exists between the two of them...and my theory is that it's because Brunson's style is very popular, while Randle's bullyball is much more out of vogue.


I acknowledged your point about Brunson not being able to make the same impact defensively as Julius can when he's locked in, but it's not just that. We forgive Brunson for the exact same business decisions on the defensive end that end up getting clipped & shared on twitter when Julius makes them.

I'm not talking about plays where JB is just too small or slow to make the play, but ones where he lets a guy go right past him because he doesn't want to pick up a foul or because he's too tired from the previous offensive possession...the kind of plays that all high volume scorers make in the regular season, because that s*** is a grind. I'm not saying this to crucify Brunson, but to say that it's part of having to carry a huge scoring load through an 82 game season.

I also don't think it's about caring, if anything Julius seems like the kind of guy who cares too much and so puts too much pressure on himself when things aren't going great. But this is getting into armchair psychology that is totally subjective, as we can't really prove what's going on in his head on those plays either way.


Find me the clip of Brunson not hustling back on defense during the last minute of a close game.

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