Is Kat really gonna be worse to watch than Randle?

[nykballa2k4]

I would argue thats its not an upgrade... or if it is, its very marginal considering the horrible defense and softness. If we want shooting we might as well make a trade for Bogdonvic from Detroit. No need to give up 60 million in assets.

We don't really need an upgrade in shooting from Randle. What I see and do not like is Randle beats his man and meets Mitch's defender and then Randle isn't able to pass it off effectively and obviously can't score over the bigger defender. Swapping Towns for Randle does nothing for this.

The idea is to play KAT at Center, make Mitch the backup, and pick up any random PJ Tucker to start at PF.

[nykballa2k4]

Despite my advocacy for getting Towns to pair with Randle, I am aware of the possible re-living on the Randolph-Curry experiment...
All we need is to add Kyrie(Marbury) and Poole(Crawford)

[Iron Mantis]

We don't really need an upgrade in shooting from Randle. What I see and do not like is Randle beats his man and meets Mitch's defender and then Randle isn't able to pass it off effectively and obviously can't score over the bigger defender. Swapping Towns for Randle does nothing for this.

The idea is to play KAT at Center, make Mitch the backup, and pick up any random PJ Tucker to start at PF.

Evidently you don't realize the value in having a center who forces the other team's rim protector to have to defend the perimeter.

The Knicks have guys who need to operate in the paint...

Mitch's inability to do anything besides rebound is why a 40 year old Brook can just hang out in the paint have 8 blocks to Mitch's 0, yet Brook was WIDE open on TEN 3pt attempts and hit on 4 of them.

[Iron Mantis]

Randle to KAT is an upgrade, but I would argue that it makes us worse long term.

a) would Embiid want to play with KAT or would we be trading KAT for Embiid?

b) would we exhaust too many assets to then also move for an upgrade at wing?

c) what would that do to our financial flexibility going forward?


Robinson is great and all, but if we can't figure out how to make him at least Capella on offense, we are losing with him.

I would argue thats its not an upgrade... or if it is, its very marginal considering the horrible defense and softness. If we want shooting we might as well make a trade for Bogdonvic from Detroit. No need to give up 60 million in assets.

We don't really need an upgrade in shooting from Randle. What I see and do not like is Randle beats his man and meets Mitch's defender and then Randle isn't able to pass it off effectively and obviously can't score over the bigger defender. Swapping Towns for Randle does nothing for this.

Watch some film to see how wide open from 3pt Brook was because a rim protecting center doesn't feel comfortable guarding the perimeter...

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FG3A&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022300002&PlayerID=201572&RangeType=0&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612749&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game



Now look at where Mitch is on all of Brook's blocks........Brook can just chill in the paint and have a block party because beyond 5ft from the basket Mitch is not a threat to do anything at all..

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=BLK&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022300002&PlayerID=201572&RangeType=0&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612749&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

[3toheadmelo]

The issue with KAT at center is that your defense is going to be really bad. Teams will have a field day with Brunson and KAT. So is it really worth it

[Iron Mantis]

The issue with KAT at center is that your defense is going to be really bad. Teams will have a field day with Brunson and KAT. So is it really worth it

YES

Put a 3&D enforcer type power forward in Randle's spot....and the defense may slide a bit, but the offense will be unlocked in a huge way if KAT is your center.

On offense the paint will be wide open for KAT, Brunson, RJ, Grimes to operate.

[3toheadmelo]

The issue with KAT at center is that your defense is going to be really bad. Teams will have a field day with Brunson and KAT. So is it really worth it

YES

Put a 3&D enforcer type power forward in Randle's spot....and the defense may slide a bit, but the offense will be unlocked in a huge way if KAT is your center.

On offense the paint will be wide open for KAT, Brunson, RJ, Grimes to operate.

Our defense is gonna take a big hit just because Brunson and KAT will be targeted in pick and rolls. On top of that, KAT will be super expensive to trade for. Randle/RJ + IQ, Mitch, Grimes and a boat load of picks is going to be the minimum asking price. He’s going to cost as much as Donovan Mitchell and he’s much worse than him. I’ll pass

[robillionaire]

The issue with KAT at center is that your defense is going to be really bad. Teams will have a field day with Brunson and KAT. So is it really worth it

YES

Put a 3&D enforcer type power forward in Randle's spot....and the defense may slide a bit, but the offense will be unlocked in a huge way if KAT is your center.

On offense the paint will be wide open for KAT, Brunson, RJ, Grimes to operate.

Our defense is gonna take a big hit just because Brunson and KAT will be targeted in pick and rolls. On top of that, KAT will be super expensive to trade for. Randle/RJ + IQ, Mitch, Grimes and a boat load of picks is going to be the minimum asking price. He’s going to cost as much as Donovan Mitchell and he’s much worse than him. I’ll pass

I don’t know why he’d be that expensive when the perception of him around the league is low

That said we won’t get him either

Nobody is coming to bail this team out

[Buttah304]

The issue with KAT at center is that your defense is going to be really bad. Teams will have a field day with Brunson and KAT. So is it really worth it

YES

Put a 3&D enforcer type power forward in Randle's spot....and the defense may slide a bit, but the offense will be unlocked in a huge way if KAT is your center.

On offense the paint will be wide open for KAT, Brunson, RJ, Grimes to operate.

Absolutely agree you would need a really versatile forward/wing type next to KAT. It’s interesting, there were times when Vanderbilt was next to Towns that it looked respectable (not always just saying there were occasions where they meshed). The Naz Reid pairing was actually horrible because Naz has played 87% of his career at C (so that was a no go). Gobert is a C through and through so that was doomed from the start. Towns would need an enforcer type defensive 4 or a truly versatile/malleable athletic wing like Aaron Gordon (he’s perfect next to Jokic). OG is a thought in todays league that maybe he can play the 4 (in 2018-2019 he played 75% of his minutes at PF). Having said that, OG has been a SF about 65% of the time over the last 4 years.

To Melo’s point - it’s not so simple to identify that 4. Obi was never going to be that because his defense was horrific. If you get KAT to play the 5 you essentially have to overhaul your 4-5 all together.

My gut tells me the FO doesn’t have the strategic mindset to make multiple moves that impact the SL. RJ has been a mainstay, they promoted Grimes last November and brought in Jalen. I just don’t have much faith that they can deconstruct the SL and put it back together in a way that creates better spacing and less offensive head butting/friction.

[Iron Mantis]

The issue with KAT at center is that your defense is going to be really bad. Teams will have a field day with Brunson and KAT. So is it really worth it

YES

Put a 3&D enforcer type power forward in Randle's spot....and the defense may slide a bit, but the offense will be unlocked in a huge way if KAT is your center.

On offense the paint will be wide open for KAT, Brunson, RJ, Grimes to operate.

Our defense is gonna take a big hit just because Brunson and KAT will be targeted in pick and rolls. On top of that, KAT will be super expensive to trade for. Randle/RJ + IQ, Mitch, Grimes and a boat load of picks is going to be the minimum asking price. He’s going to cost as much as Donovan Mitchell and he’s much worse than him. I’ll pass

Thibs, the defensive guru, will figure out how to minimize the damage when teams attack the Brun/KAT duo in the pick n roll.

However, If that's the price you mentioned, then that's a def pass.

I don't think they'd want Mitch...he's too similar to Rudy and they have a good backup C.

If it's something like: Randle, Quickley, I.Hart or Fournier, and a couple of picks then that's a yes.

This actually makes the Wolves better, as Quickley could start and thrive or bolster their bench....and this makes the Knicks better as well, because our offensive pieces will fit much better.

Mitch's value will be utilized off the Knicks bench.

[Snacks]

I'd rather have Naz Reid than Towns, and so would the Twolves

[RHODEY]

I would argue thats its not an upgrade... or if it is, its very marginal considering the horrible defense and softness. If we want shooting we might as well make a trade for Bogdonvic from Detroit. No need to give up 60 million in assets.

We don't really need an upgrade in shooting from Randle. What I see and do not like is Randle beats his man and meets Mitch's defender and then Randle isn't able to pass it off effectively and obviously can't score over the bigger defender. Swapping Towns for Randle does nothing for this.

The idea is to play KAT at Center, make Mitch the backup, and pick up any random PJ Tucker to start at PF.

That's a bad idea.

[3toheadmelo]

YES

Put a 3&D enforcer type power forward in Randle's spot....and the defense may slide a bit, but the offense will be unlocked in a huge way if KAT is your center.

On offense the paint will be wide open for KAT, Brunson, RJ, Grimes to operate.

Our defense is gonna take a big hit just because Brunson and KAT will be targeted in pick and rolls. On top of that, KAT will be super expensive to trade for. Randle/RJ + IQ, Mitch, Grimes and a boat load of picks is going to be the minimum asking price. He’s going to cost as much as Donovan Mitchell and he’s much worse than him. I’ll pass

Thibs, the defensive guru, will figure out how to minimize the damage when teams attack the Brun/KAT duo in the pick n roll.

However, If that's the price you mentioned, then that's a def pass.

I don't think they'd want Mitch...he's too similar to Rudy and they have a good backup C.

If it's something like: Randle, Quickley, I.Hart or Fournier, and a couple of picks then that's a yes.

This actually makes the Wolves better, as Quickley could start and thrive or bolster their bench....and this makes the Knicks better as well, because our offensive pieces will fit much better.

Mitch's value will be utilized off the Knicks bench.

Thibs couldn’t get KAT to buy in when he was there so I’m not sure it will work this time around. It’s too risky and expensive.

[3toheadmelo]

YES

Put a 3&D enforcer type power forward in Randle's spot....and the defense may slide a bit, but the offense will be unlocked in a huge way if KAT is your center.

On offense the paint will be wide open for KAT, Brunson, RJ, Grimes to operate.

Our defense is gonna take a big hit just because Brunson and KAT will be targeted in pick and rolls. On top of that, KAT will be super expensive to trade for. Randle/RJ + IQ, Mitch, Grimes and a boat load of picks is going to be the minimum asking price. He’s going to cost as much as Donovan Mitchell and he’s much worse than him. I’ll pass

I don’t know why he’d be that expensive when the perception of him around the league is low

That said we won’t get him either

Nobody is coming to bail this team out

KAT is a big name so I think the wolves will ask for a massive haul. But I agree I don’t think we will get him anyways. Minny has shown zero indication they want to trade him

[knicks94]

I'd rather have Nazir Muhammad than Randle.

[nykballa2k4]

The idea is to play KAT at Center, make Mitch the backup, and pick up any random PJ Tucker to start at PF.

Evidently you don't realize the value in having a center who forces the other team's rim protector to have to defend the perimeter.

The Knicks have guys who need to operate in the paint...

Mitch's inability to do anything besides rebound is why a 40 year old Brook can just hang out in the paint have 8 blocks to Mitch's 0, yet Brook was WIDE open on TEN 3pt attempts and hit on 4 of them.

Again, if we are getting KAT, I would be pairing him with Randle.
I don't want to be putting Hart, RJ etc out there at PF. No one wins that way.

From last year and parts of the summer -- I wanted us to get Ayton because having a spread 4(Randle) and a C that can be an offensive threat is the best way to run Thibs offense. If you think back to the successful Bulls teams Noah was effective as a playmaker. This allowed Boozer, Deng, Rose etc to have space to work. Asik had his purpose and arguably better on defense, but Noah being able to be a weapon on both ends was huge.

If all you want is a spread small-ball team, then just put Randle at the 5... He is better defensively than KAT (though KAT is a better shot blocker).

[Iron Mantis]

We don't really need an upgrade in shooting from Randle. What I see and do not like is Randle beats his man and meets Mitch's defender and then Randle isn't able to pass it off effectively and obviously can't score over the bigger defender. Swapping Towns for Randle does nothing for this.

The idea is to play KAT at Center, make Mitch the backup, and pick up any random PJ Tucker to start at PF.

That's a bad idea.

Why?

[Iron Mantis]

Evidently you don't realize the value in having a center who forces the other team's rim protector to have to defend the perimeter.

The Knicks have guys who need to operate in the paint...

Mitch's inability to do anything besides rebound is why a 40 year old Brook can just hang out in the paint have 8 blocks to Mitch's 0, yet Brook was WIDE open on TEN 3pt attempts and hit on 4 of them.

Again, if we are getting KAT, I would be pairing him with Randle.
I don't want to be putting Hart, RJ etc out there at PF. No one wins that way.

From last year and parts of the summer -- I wanted us to get Ayton because having a spread 4(Randle) and a C that can be an offensive threat is the best way to run Thibs offense. If you think back to the successful Bulls teams Noah was effective as a playmaker. This allowed Boozer, Deng, Rose etc to have space to work. Asik had his purpose and arguably better on defense, but Noah being able to be a weapon on both ends was huge.

If all you want is a spread small-ball team, then just put Randle at the 5... He is better defensively than KAT (though KAT is a better shot blocker).

I keep repeating that the Knicks will have to pick up a 3&D PF......

You can't get KAT in a trade without Randle going out.....He's the only centerpiece that makes sense with their roster.

And this isn't NBA 2k....how are you advocating for having 2 guys up front who don't play good defense? Randle doesn't even try..at all...And Chemistry is obviously also a thing.....You really Think Randle is going to be OK with KAT coming in and taking all his shots? Are you serious?

Randle at the 5? All right I'm going to check out of this convo. No offense, but you don't sound like a serious basketball guy.

[ctorres]

Dude at this point, we'd be lucky to get Rui Hachimura for Randle with how poorly Randle has shot the last 6 games, lol

[robillionaire]

Evidently you don't realize the value in having a center who forces the other team's rim protector to have to defend the perimeter.

The Knicks have guys who need to operate in the paint...

Mitch's inability to do anything besides rebound is why a 40 year old Brook can just hang out in the paint have 8 blocks to Mitch's 0, yet Brook was WIDE open on TEN 3pt attempts and hit on 4 of them.

Again, if we are getting KAT, I would be pairing him with Randle.
I don't want to be putting Hart, RJ etc out there at PF. No one wins that way.

From last year and parts of the summer -- I wanted us to get Ayton because having a spread 4(Randle) and a C that can be an offensive threat is the best way to run Thibs offense. If you think back to the successful Bulls teams Noah was effective as a playmaker. This allowed Boozer, Deng, Rose etc to have space to work. Asik had his purpose and arguably better on defense, but Noah being able to be a weapon on both ends was huge.

If all you want is a spread small-ball team, then just put Randle at the 5... He is better defensively than KAT (though KAT is a better shot blocker).

I keep repeating that the Knicks will have to pick up a 3&D PF......

You can't get KAT in a trade without Randle going out.....He's the only centerpiece that makes sense with their roster.

And this isn't NBA 2k....how are you advocating for having 2 guys up front who don't play good defense? Randle doesn't even try..at all...And Chemistry is obviously also a thing.....You really Think Randle is going to be OK with KAT coming in and taking all his shots? Are you serious?

Randle at the 5? All right I'm going to check out of this convo. No offense, but you don't sound like a serious basketball guy.

Name the championship level 3 and D PF we could realistically get though. We’d have to make at least 2 major trades and we can’t even make 1