I've seen enough, bench fultz start black

[SOUL]

Goga/Black as a lineup worked not because it spaces any better necessarily, but the usage is way different.. the ball is in Paolo and Wagner's hands more and there's a lot more actions that defenses have to respond to because they're more dangerous offensively. Obviously both instances rely on our best players playing well, but even putting not great three point shooters that are good cutters can make our offense look better because defenses are scrambling.

When it's spread around more evenly with Fultz and WCJ, it can still obviously work, but it neutralizes our best players sometimes for guys who are a bit hot and cold on offense who require more usage.

[Rainwater]

Thanks God our FA actually knows how good Fultz is as a player and how valuable he is for the team. His hate on this board is just absurd.

When Fultz is gone I will come back to this comment. I will then ask you how much does the FO value him now.

[Rainwater]

Fultz is not a scrub by any means. He just has very clear deficiencies that make him a challenging starter on a team trying to win.

But I think if you stuck him in the Cole Anthony spot. Aka the first guy off the bench and just let him dominate the ball looking to score and constantly pushing the ball in transition (what he did for the Magic in 21-22), he would absolutely thrive in that role.

I actually wouldn’t mind trading Cole and keeping Fultz for *that* role, I just don’t know how well that would work chemistry wise after he’s been the starter here for multiple seasons.

Never said he’s a scrub and I don’t believe that. But still, I can’t think of any team trading for him and we get something meaningful in return. Some suggestions?

yep, I agree with both. Have Markelle come off the bench.

Also, who would want Fultz? I mean does he even have value?

As an expiring contract, yes. And i believe some will will value him in a backup role. And I feel like we can up his value if he is part of a package deal.

[p0peye]

I don't think we will get much trading Fultz, we might simply let him expire as well. We took a low risk / high reward swing with Fultz and that was a reward in itself, regardless if it didn't really work out as we would like. We invested 5 years in him, time to move on.

[Skybox]

Also, who would want Fultz? I mean does he even have value?

Expiring deals have value, packaged with picks or other players for sure. If, say POR, recognized that Scoot & Sharpe is their future backcourt and didn't want to keep Simons as a $25m backup, they could trade for an expiring Fultz & a rookie scale guy, etc and let Fultz expire.

This is what I have asked many many times and never even got speculative answers...only "You're a hater", etc.

Fultz hits the open market...who's calling and offering a starting spot?

Another way to look at it...IF Fultz was on another team, would people in ORL even be thinking about him or his potential fit in ORL.

NO

[KillMonger]

too soon

[ORLMagicGirl15]

There is always a honeymoon period. Lakers didn’t know how to defend the new starting lineup. This new lineup does not guarantee success because of one game. We need more data to see if it will be efficient, especially with so many non 3 point shooters out there.

[orlando_joe]

I want to see if Portland would consider Fultz, Issac, Denver first, and Orlando protected first for Simons.

Too much for a guy that is basically Cole Anthony with WORSE defense.

Simons is way better than Cole and provides a need. And Given the fact that Fultz and Issac would be marginal losses at best and the Denver pick will be trash the only thing the magic would lose is the their pick. If better only provide one pick.

so you are sure denver will not have injury or lose any players in the next 2 yrs ? simons is not 2- 1st rd picks better then cole..his defense and lack of rebounds take from the couple extra 3s he shoots tell cole to get up 10-3s a game and let him play 35 min a game and see what happens and cole will do it for half the cost

[zaymon]

Black played very well but we are not benching Fultz off one game

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Of course we would not bench Fultz off one game, thats madness..... but off 7 years and 160+ games for the Magic ??? Seems more reasonable.
No one expects Black to shoot 66% from 3, but at least he is hitting the rim, not hesitates, moves better without and ball and is MUCH better defender. He also doesnt hijack the offense by going stretches when nobody toches the ball and Fultz shoots midrange jumper after midrange jumper.
Its perfect scenario for Mosley. He can ride this unit until WCJ is healed or we start to suck. Markelle havent earned a thing on this team. He should focus on his mental becouse he looks like Ben Simmons before his mental breakdown and i say it becouse he really seems like a good guy and i wish him well.

[basketballRob]

I think having Black and Goga in the SL created a new vibe where Franz and Paolo were the leaders. They take a back seat to Wendell and Fultz when they are starting.

Black is also a better defender than Fultz, and that won't change. No one really calls it out, but Fultz has problems staying in front of players. He's good off the ball and getting into passing lanes.

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[pepe1991]

It's too soon for big breakdowns, hot takes or anything, especially when non-star players and yet to be established players play against Lakers/Lebron like it's most important game of their lifes, but given we invested so much into Black, and given Fultz showed over past 5 years that he can't improve pass this version, and his contract is expiring, we should keep eye on market to ship him away.

From early 2019 to almost 2024. Time is up. He is always hurt and when he does play, he hardly ever displayed ability to be anything more than marginal starter. For first two years he wasn't even better than DJ Augustin. Whole "myth" about him goes back to draft, draft that happened 7 years ago.

[BCS]

Fultz is not a scrub by any means. He just has very clear deficiencies that make him a challenging starter on a team trying to win.

But I think if you stuck him in the Cole Anthony spot. Aka the first guy off the bench and just let him dominate the ball looking to score and constantly pushing the ball in transition (what he did for the Magic in 21-22), he would absolutely thrive in that role.

I actually wouldn’t mind trading Cole and keeping Fultz for *that* role, I just don’t know how well that would work chemistry wise after he’s been the starter here for multiple seasons.

Never said he’s a scrub and I don’t believe that. But still, I can’t think of any team trading for him and we get something meaningful in return. Some suggestions?

yep, I agree with both. Have Markelle come off the bench.

Also, who would want Fultz? I mean does he even have value?

I have no issues with this. We are building a defensive positionless team and from Black, Suggs, Fultz, and Cole, who messes with that and does not fit that mold? You can easily have a 3 guard rotation (doesnt matter who starts) and have a ridiculously good defensive backcourt at all times. Having said that, Fultz has to prove he can hit the open 3s he hasn't yet, if he does, I still believe the FO office would rather trade Cole as Fultz fits the vision better. Of course, Cole has improved and made the decision harder for the FO, and that is why Fultz will have to show soon he can make open 3s.

If we do decide to let Fultz go, mark my words, Pop is going to be all over that, and Fultz will end up a Spurs.

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[lt175]

Honestly, if Fultz is the reason Banchero or Wagner don't have the ball in their hands to initiate the offense, it's not a Fultz problem, it's a coach problem. Banchero should be the fulcrum of the Magic offense. Maybe Banchero is too shy I don't know but watching that game against the Lakers, he was clearly the focal point of the offense. So yes maybe it works better with Black and not Fultz or maybe it's just Black being a rookie and not wanting to make mistakes, so he naturally defers to Banchero or Wagner. Honestly this team would be better with three 3 and D around Banchero and Wagner. Anthony on the bench is interesting because he can shoot and create against opponent second units. Orlando has a really good future. They just need to find the right rotation.

[VFX]

Obviously this thread is premature, but it should seriously happen anyway.

Paolo looked good similar to Franz with the ball in his hands initiating offense. The ball sticks more with Fultz and honestly with Cole as well. Everyone just stands around waiting to see what Fultz does with the ball in iso situations. There was different movement on offense with Black in the game. LA struggled pretty hard on offense when he was cutting off passing lanes.

And no, I don’t think Markelle off the bench is a great idea if Black is going to be starting. Cole provides some level of floor spacing to shake things up. I wouldn’t want to pay Fultz to be a smaller, less versatile, more expensive version of Black off the bench because people like him. You can spend that money getting other guys that can shoot to balance the roster instead.

[Catledge]

For me, the rational conclusion right now in a healthy lineup is for Black to take Ingles' minutes. Old Joe has not been effective, and Black looks more ready to play a wing role than a pg role to me.

[basketballRob]

For me, the rational conclusion right now in a healthy lineup is for Black to take Ingles' minutes. Old Joe has not been effective, and Black looks more ready to play a wing role than a pg role to me.

I think it's because he's taller than most guards. He has exclusively played guard in college and so far in the NBA.

I remember when we drafted Franz, it took a while for everyone to be convinced he was an SF. I remember fans calling him the next Tyler Hansbrough.

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[Optimus_Steel]

For me, the rational conclusion right now in a healthy lineup is for Black to take Ingles' minutes. Old Joe has not been effective, and Black looks more ready to play a wing role than a pg role to me.

I think it's because he's taller than most guards. He has exclusively played guard in college and so far in the NBA.

I remember when we drafted Franz, it took a while for everyone to be convinced he was an SF. I remember fans calling him the next Tyler Hansbrough.

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Who said that? Lol

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[Bakomagic]

Too soon to start him but love to see him play well and can see he can have a positive effect on the game.

Hope to see him continue to get his minutes ramped up throughout the season.

[CarraT]

Having said that, Fultz has to prove he can hit the open 3s he hasn't yet, if he does, I still believe the FO office would rather trade Cole as Fultz fits the vision better.

Seriously? You still think there is even the slightest possibility he will suddenly, out of nowhere, take open threes, and then even hit them? It’s over. He won’t improve his shooting. He’s in the league for 7 years.

[basketballRob]

For me, the rational conclusion right now in a healthy lineup is for Black to take Ingles' minutes. Old Joe has not been effective, and Black looks more ready to play a wing role than a pg role to me.

I think it's because he's taller than most guards. He has exclusively played guard in college and so far in the NBA.

I remember when we drafted Franz, it took a while for everyone to be convinced he was an SF. I remember fans calling him the next Tyler Hansbrough.

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Who said that? Lol

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I remember NY fans calling him the next Tyler Hansbrough after he dunked on Barrett and Dinwiddie. I do remember fans here thinking he was a PF, too.

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