I've seen enough, bench fultz start black

[Skybox]

This isn't about Black being awesome or a finished product...it's more about showing enough to move Fultz out before he throwing a foolish extension at him. It's just easy. Black getting to where he's equal to Fultz is safest bet ever. Black being better than Fultz before the year is out isn't even a bad one. Let it happen.

I also don't see the benefit of a non-shooter off the bench (as MagicMatic said)...what's the point? Better to have different looks like Cole brings and Suggs is close enough to Black to already make us too heavy on the non-floor spreaders in our rotation. I love Cole/Suggs as the second shift. Fultz & Harris should be packaged (with picks?) to get that premium SG who brings offensive firepower next to Black and can open things up for the frontcourt (Herro, Simons, Wiggins, etc...not sure who's going to be available-FA market is crap, so make a trade before they expire). Suddenly, our backcourt would be a strength rather than a big question mark.

[TSonn]

Best case scenario is the emergence of AB forces Fultz to shoot like he does in his mixtapes. Weltman has said Fultz can get his shot back. His doctors have said he can get his shot back. Now is the time. Shoot the open 3 with his midrange form and hit them at 34%+ instead of dribbling into the defense for a contested 15 footer.

If it happens, great - now we have more assets to work with. If it doesn't, ship him out for someone who's not afraid to shoot.

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[anothermagicfan]

I've seen enough, bench Carter start goga

[Bergmaniac]

I've always said Fultz is much better suited for a bench role. Give him 20 minutes to push the pace relentlessly against bench units and he'll most likely do very well.

And Fultz is pretty much the finished product at this point, plus an expiring contract too. From a teambuilding prospect it's a no brainer to prioritize a rookie drafted high in the lottery over him.

Plus Fultz and Paolo for whatever reason just don't have chemistry together on the court.

[OrlandoSaban]

Plus Fultz and Paolo for whatever reason just don't have chemistry together on the court.

I 100% agree with this statement.

I have always liked Fultz but I feel he would be a much better player off the bench. Look what its done for Cole

[jonbob17]

I mean i realize it's only been 4 games and sample size is small...BUT...Markelle's two biggest areas he needed improvement....3 point attempts and FT attempts...0.8 3 point attempts and 0.3 FT attempts...Both cringe-worthy.

I think we let MF get some value when/assuming his knee heals up, wait for someone to lose their starting PG and find a deal.

[jonbob17]

I think having Black and Goga in the SL created a new vibe where Franz and Paolo were the leaders. They take a back seat to Wendell and Fultz when they are starting.

Black is also a better defender than Fultz, and that won't change. No one really calls it out, but Fultz has problems staying in front of players. He's good off the ball and getting into passing lanes.

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I thought Fultz has looked pretty good this year on D...feel like previous years he has been way overrated....but to you point, yah AB's potential on D isn't in the same ball park as MF. In AB's limited time this year he looks phenomenal for a guard rookie.

[jonbob17]

Scoot and the Thompson twins are 5-48 from 3 and ABs 2-3.

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Amen's form in our first game was hilariously bad. I can't believe this is his third year of professional basketball, and his glaring weakness is still this ugly.....gulp, could take same lecture toward 25 yo MF

[Def Swami]

For me, the rational conclusion right now in a healthy lineup is for Black to take Ingles' minutes. Old Joe has not been effective, and Black looks more ready to play a wing role than a pg role to me.

At the very least, Black should be taking all those useless Ingles minutes.

[jonbob17]

Fultz can't shoot, lol. The few shots he has taken from distance literally haven't hit rim, lol. Black is easily the better shooter. The thing is that the magic don't need Black to run the offense it's going to run through Paolo and Franz. From what we can see it's better that way.

I like how you presented a clip from almost 4 years ago, lol.

This is sort of where I am at with the structure of this team. We don't need someone controlling the offense...we need guys who can make quick decisions and keep the ball moving. Franz and Paolo's ability to create from the forward positions gives us more flexibility on who we employ at the guard positions. Black and Suggs look like they will be both pretty good as ball handlers in transition.

If Suggs can knock down threes he's fine with me as a quasi-PG, as long as there is another guard out there that can also handle the ball....like I am not sure Suggs and Harris or Jett work, but Suggs with any guard that can dribble and pass...sure.

If AB can eventually shoot..look out...that's the vision of this team...imagine a Black/Suggs back court on defense, with enough shooting and offense to support Franz and Paolo...that's why i have been so excited for the trajectory of this team.

TBH i wasn't expecting Black to look this comfortable this early...he already looks to play with composure and it looks slow to him...the shot looks off, like i suspect he is sub 30-32% this year....it will be the swing factor for AB...like it will be for Suggs, and possibly Franz and Paolo too...they are really good at other things but if they can shoot too, just multiplies their effectiveness.

[VFX]

For me, the rational conclusion right now in a healthy lineup is for Black to take Ingles' minutes. Old Joe has not been effective, and Black looks more ready to play a wing role than a pg role to me.

At the very least, Black should be taking all those useless Ingles minutes.

People keep saying this…

I don’t want AB coming in to guard Forwards losing his advantage. I’d rather he was out there pressuring guards with Suggs.

At least Ingles gives us the appearance of being able to stretch the floor at times.

[JF5]

Yeah, I love Fultz but I don't see a path for him to remain on the team. If Black is able to knock down the corner 3s and play the potential elite defense that Fultz does not he's expendable.

I really hoped he'd get better but once I saw that change in his shooting form to something worse and also with Paolo and Franz being way better on ball players his days were essentially numbered.

I don't see the point of trading him. We still need him to win for this season. But he's definitely not going to be here next year.

[Audi]

One issue with this laughably small sample size is that we’ve only seen Black when Paolo and Franz have been balling at their best. How’s he going to look on a night when they are struggling? If we need the next man up to go out and get a bucket, is he that guy? If we get rid of Fultz (who can go get a bucket), are we then passing the torch to Cole and Suggs? Are they those guys? If we bring in another PG who can be that, what’s that mean for AB? If we bring in another SG for that role, what’s that mean for Suggs?

AB (and the team in general) typically get a 17-20 game window from me before formulating my opinions but I am certainly happy with what I’ve seen, surprised even. Regardless, I need to see much, much more.

I’m happy with Mose’s stated plan that nobody is going to be gifted minutes and will need to earn them. I see nothing wrong with Black and Fultz competing for the starting spot, so long as it’s being earned via performance.

[AaronB]

I am still bullish Fultz. I like the way he plays. That does not mean I favor minutes being given to him instead of earned or that they should resign him to an idiot contract.

When the Magic drafted AB, I said at the time that was a shot over the bow of the fultz team that he needed to be better and be reasonable on his next contract demand. I said the same with Jett toward Cole. Cole’s team made a great choice.

Going into the last draft I was hoping for Wallace and Lively. Black was the better player than Wallace, but I did not have Lively dropping. Still wished the Magic drafted Lively over Jett.

I am not however, in favor of trading Fultz. Every trade I see from the same posters range from stupid to ridiculous. Better off to just keep Fultz for insurance and if he wants to stay on a team friendly deal, resign him.

I doubt Fultz gets a full MLE deal next year as an UFA. I think those days are coming to an end. Too many penalties on teams making dumb choices salary-wise. Probably some percentage of one.

[Hoopslife]

One issue with this laughably small sample size is that we’ve only seen Black when Paolo and Franz have been balling at their best. How’s he going to look on a night when they are struggling? If we need the next man up to go out and get a bucket, is he that guy? If we get rid of Fultz (who can go get a bucket), are we then passing the torch to Cole and Suggs? Are they those guys? If we bring in another PG who can be that, what’s that mean for AB? If we bring in another SG for that role, what’s that mean for Suggs?

AB (and the team in general) typically get a 17-20 game window from me before formulating my opinions but I am certainly happy with what I’ve seen, surprised even. Regardless, I need to see much, much more.

I’m happy with Mose’s stated plan that nobody is going to be gifted minutes and will need to earn them. I see nothing wrong with Black and Fultz competing for the starting spot, so long as it’s being earned via performance.

We have a big enough sample size of Paolo playing with Fultz vs without him to know that Fultz hurts Paolo's game:

Paolo playing with Fultz: 18.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.8 apg, 41.6 FG%, 30.0 3PT FG% in 62 games
Paolo playing without Fultz: 23.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 4.0 apg, 47.9 FG%, 29.8 3PT FG% in 16 games

[ogmagicfan]

Thanks God our FA actually knows how good Fultz is as a player and how valuable he is for the team. His hate on this board is just absurd.

If the FA shared the same sentiment, they would have extended Fultz's contract and they wouldnt have drafted Anthony Black

[Duke4life831]

I think it’s time to move on from Fultz primarily because of ball distribution. Paolo’s Time per possession was at 2.6 the games Fultz played and close to 4 without him. That’s a significant difference, also add in Franz getting a boost as well.

I think ideally going forward you want the offense to revolve around those two guys. And Fultz is an on ball guard, when he doesn’t have the ball he doesn’t have much value and he really likes to dribble the rock as well.

Black has always been able to be a very quick decision maker. He doesn’t need to dominate the ball to run an offense. Are there going to be bumps and bruises along the way? Of course. But long term he’s much more the kind of PG you want to play alongside Paolo and Franz. This team is still really young, might as well get those bumps and bruises of Black playing and Paolo/Franz having the ball a lot more out of the way.

[jonbob17]

I am still bullish Fultz. I like the way he plays. That does not mean I favor minutes being given to him instead of earned or that they should resign him to an idiot contract.

When the Magic drafted AB, I said at the time that was a shot over the bow of the fultz team that he needed to be better and be reasonable on his next contract demand. I said the same with Jett toward Cole. Cole’s team made a great choice.

Going into the last draft I was hoping for Wallace and Lively. Black was the better player than Wallace, but I did not have Lively dropping. Still wished the Magic drafted Lively over Jett.

I am not however, in favor of trading Fultz. Every trade I see from the same posters range from stupid to ridiculous. Better off to just keep Fultz for insurance and if he wants to stay on a team friendly deal, resign him.

I doubt Fultz gets a full MLE deal next year as an UFA. I think those days are coming to an end. Too many penalties on teams making dumb choices salary-wise. Probably some percentage of one.

Black, Wallace, and Lively were my guys too...i even would have taken Wallace at 11 had he been there, even with the log jam at the guard spots we have...maybe that was the plan and thats why OKC jumped us...Clearly Lively wasnt the plan and Dallas felt comfortable dropping below us. I hate wasting picks and money on centers but Lively just was too much value to pass on. Same with Wallace....thought both should have been drafted much higher, like probably right after AB..liked hendricks too.

I hope the Magic are right in their Howard evaluation, just seemed like Wallace and Lively were too good to pass on regardless of roster construction

[ibraheim718]

I think it’s time to move on from Fultz primarily because of ball distribution. Paolo’s Time per possession was at 2.6 the games Fultz played and close to 4 without him. That’s a significant difference, also add in Franz getting a boost as well.

I think ideally going forward you want the offense to revolve around those two guys. And Fultz is an on ball guard, when he doesn’t have the ball he doesn’t have much value and he really likes to dribble the rock as well.

Black has always been able to be a very quick decision maker. He doesn’t need to dominate the ball to run an offense. Are there going to be bumps and bruises along the way? Of course. But long term he’s much more the kind of PG you want to play alongside Paolo and Franz. This team is still really young, might as well get those bumps and bruises of Black playing and Paolo/Franz having the ball a lot more out of the way.

Key points. Fultz also gets too deep with ball penetration sometimes. It's an ideal fit to have two strong defensive guards who cut and move without the ball and are good in the open floor running the fast break.. they also move the ball and make the extra pass. They just need to keep working on their jumpers and never lose confidence shooting them. The perfect compliment.

[AaronB]

I am still bullish Fultz. I like the way he plays. That does not mean I favor minutes being given to him instead of earned or that they should resign him to an idiot contract.

When the Magic drafted AB, I said at the time that was a shot over the bow of the fultz team that he needed to be better and be reasonable on his next contract demand. I said the same with Jett toward Cole. Cole’s team made a great choice.

Going into the last draft I was hoping for Wallace and Lively. Black was the better player than Wallace, but I did not have Lively dropping. Still wished the Magic drafted Lively over Jett.

I am not however, in favor of trading Fultz. Every trade I see from the same posters range from stupid to ridiculous. Better off to just keep Fultz for insurance and if he wants to stay on a team friendly deal, resign him.

I doubt Fultz gets a full MLE deal next year as an UFA. I think those days are coming to an end. Too many penalties on teams making dumb choices salary-wise. Probably some percentage of one.

Black, Wallace, and Lively were my guys too...i even would have taken Wallace at 11 had he been there, even with the log jam at the guard spots we have...maybe that was the plan and thats why OKC jumped us...Clearly Lively wasnt the plan and Dallas felt comfortable dropping below us. I hate wasting picks and money on centers but Lively just was too much value to pass on. Same with Wallace....thought both should have been drafted much higher, like probably right after AB..liked hendricks too.

I hope the Magic are right in their Howard evaluation, just seemed like Wallace and Lively were too good to pass on regardless of roster construction

I love Howard’s stroke, but I don’t see how he plays wing with those heavy legs. They are like watching his dad play PF at 35. This Magic LT deserves the benefit of the doubt with recent picks, but Jett is a head scratcher.