2023-24 NY Knicks trade ideas

[Jalen Bluntson]

Yeah, that's bad.

He needs to get back in game shape after being off his foot during the offseason. Normally we;d have a back up 4 taking on some of that (like Toppin in the playoffs) but of course we sabotaged ourselves this summer.

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

[ScienceOfLosing]

Yeah, that's bad.

He needs to get back in game shape after being off his foot during the offseason. Normally we;d have a back up 4 taking on some of that (like Toppin in the playoffs) but of course we sabotaged ourselves this summer.

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

Add this to the equation:
Randle surgery on June 2nd or so.
Obi trade July 7th (You know, cause we had to do right by Obi, 1 year before we needed to and for two seconds that might not convey any time soon.)
They go on to say a guard will backup Obi and sign another guard thereafter in Donte.

Why would the FO risk the team for essentially doing Obi right?

[BKlutch]

He needs to get back in game shape after being off his foot during the offseason. Normally we;d have a back up 4 taking on some of that (like Toppin in the playoffs) but of course we sabotaged ourselves this summer.

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

It's hard to know. The muscles that were unused while he kept his ankle imobilized are certainly weaker and he may still have pain. He may have less use of his ankle now, and they may feel he needs to strengthen it more before severely testing it.

OR, of course, there's a possiblity that Randle doesn't give a **** about playing defense, his team, his teammates, the fans, and just doesn't ever want to exert himself and is perfectly fine with being a well paid a$$hole.

Since he's played a lot better at times in the past, it's either one or the other.

[thebuzzardman]

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

It's hard to know. The muscles that were unused while he kept his ankle imobilized are certainly weaker and he may still have pain. He may have less use of his ankle now, and they may feel he needs to strengthen it more before severely testing it.

OR, of course, there's a possiblity that Randle doesn't give a **** about playing defense, his team, his teammates, the fans, and just doesn't ever want to exert himself and is perfectly fine with being a well paid a$$hole.

Since he's played a lot better at times in the past, it's either one or the other.

He's probably playing his way into 100% shape, so his wind isn't there, completely.

So he's coasting on defense to save energy for offense.
He's not the first important scorer on a team to do this.

This is on the coach and the FO.
Thibs could demand 100% effort on both sides of the ball and sit Randle when it's not there.

The FO traded the one backup PF the team had, and didn't decide to even have a JAG scrub like Roby or Knight on the team, just in case. I mean, I doubt any coach would be into playing Roby or Knight 28 minutes to Randle's 20, but there would be more options to make Randle take a seat.

So it's a Randle/Thibs problem.

[8516knicks]

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

It's hard to know. The muscles that were unused while he kept his ankle imobilized are certainly weaker and he may still have pain. He may have less use of his ankle now, and they may feel he needs to strengthen it more before severely testing it.

OR, of course, there's a possiblity that Randle doesn't give a **** about playing defense, his team, his teammates, the fans, and just doesn't ever want to exert himself and is perfectly fine with being a well paid a$$hole.

Since he's played a lot better at times in the past, it's either one or the other.

"OR, of course, there's a possiblity that Randle doesn't give a **** about playing defense, his team, his teammates, the fans, and just doesn't ever want to exert himself and is perfectly fine with being a well paid a$$hole. "

[8516knicks]

He needs to get back in game shape after being off his foot during the offseason. Normally we;d have a back up 4 taking on some of that (like Toppin in the playoffs) but of course we sabotaged ourselves this summer.

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

An argument could be made that this is prime Randle -- "We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING."

We know he's not "a film guy" in his words. Perhaps he's not a "try" guy either.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

It's hard to know. The muscles that were unused while he kept his ankle imobilized are certainly weaker and he may still have pain. He may have less use of his ankle now, and they may feel he needs to strengthen it more before severely testing it.

OR, of course, there's a possiblity that Randle doesn't give a **** about playing defense, his team, his teammates, the fans, and just doesn't ever want to exert himself and is perfectly fine with being a well paid a$$hole.

Since he's played a lot better at times in the past, it's either one or the other.

If he's that injured, than bench him. Oh, wait. I just don't see the effects of surgery 5 months ago and conditioning issues when I look at him playing. It looks like he's mailing it in. There's no limping. No signs of exhaustion. Just him lolly gagging around the court like he's in his own world.

I can't believe he doesn't care. Why mail it in? Ask for a trade if you don't like what we're doing. It just looks like he doesn't want to be out there.

[Wildcat]

Do you think that a different head coach would get more out of this particular roster than Thibs does? In other words, is this a roster constructed to fit Thibs's coaching philosophy?

The roster isn't constructed too well, and I believe if the Knicks had a different coach, they won't have the roster as its constructed.

But yes. I think with this squad, a coach with a better methodology on offense would do better. Very little ball movement because the system favors ISO plays. Fine during crunch time, but painful and boring beforehand. JB should be running more pick and rolls, or pops. Grimes -- who I think it s great cutter -- should be more involved in backdoors, cuts, screens, etc.

[HarthorneWingo]

Do you think that a different head coach would get more out of this particular roster than Thibs does? In other words, is this a roster constructed to fit Thibs's coaching philosophy?

The roster isn't constructed too well, and I believe if the Knicks had a different coach, they won't have the roster as its constructed.

But yes. I think with this squad, a coach with a better methodology on offense would do better. Very little ball movement because the system favors ISO plays. Fine during crunch time, but painful and boring beforehand. JB should be running more pick and rolls, or pops. Grimes -- who I think it s great cutter -- should be more involved in backdoors, cuts, screens, etc.

Agreed. Mitch isn't getting any lobs either.

[nykballa2k4]

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

It's hard to know. The muscles that were unused while he kept his ankle imobilized are certainly weaker and he may still have pain. He may have less use of his ankle now, and they may feel he needs to strengthen it more before severely testing it.

OR, of course, there's a possiblity that Randle doesn't give a **** about playing defense, his team, his teammates, the fans, and just doesn't ever want to exert himself and is perfectly fine with being a well paid a$$hole.

Since he's played a lot better at times in the past, it's either one or the other.

I think his defense has always been B-. He has never been great at close-outs on the perimeter. He is generally good at staying in front of his man and contesting in the post. The problem is when he is late on that rotation and his guy hits 3 3's in a row... it looks bad. Compounded when he himself is missing the same open 3's. His shot is clearly off which is an indicator of muscle memory being off and legs being more fatigued.

[HarthorneWingo]

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

It's hard to know. The muscles that were unused while he kept his ankle imobilized are certainly weaker and he may still have pain. He may have less use of his ankle now, and they may feel he needs to strengthen it more before severely testing it.

OR, of course, there's a possiblity that Randle doesn't give a **** about playing defense, his team, his teammates, the fans, and just doesn't ever want to exert himself and is perfectly fine with being a well paid a$$hole.

Since he's played a lot better at times in the past, it's either one or the other.

I think his defense has always been B-. He has never been great at close-outs on the perimeter. He is generally good at staying in front of his man and contesting in the post. The problem is when he is late on that rotation and his guy hits 3 3's in a row... it looks bad. Compounded when he himself is missing the same open 3's. His shot is clearly off which is an indicator of muscle memory being off and legs being more fatigued.

Also, Randle's been coming to a slow boil over not getting calls from the referees. It's been simmering over the last few games and it started early in the Bucks game, if I recall correctly. He can't seem to be able to ignore them. He seems unable to forget about it and keep his focus on where he has to be on the court.

I don't know. Hasn't the NY media posed this question to Knicks' management? Thibs? Julius?

[nykballa2k4]

He needs to get back in game shape after being off his foot during the offseason. Normally we;d have a back up 4 taking on some of that (like Toppin in the playoffs) but of course we sabotaged ourselves this summer.

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

Add this to the equation:
Randle surgery on June 2nd or so.
Obi trade July 7th (You know, cause we had to do right by Obi, 1 year before we needed to and for two seconds that might not convey any time soon.)
They go on to say a guard will backup Obi and sign another guard thereafter in Donte.

Why would the FO risk the team for essentially doing Obi right?

I think the FO saw another "Nova Knicks" candidate, also felt that they had to move Obi after the audio leaks. There were a ton of ways to go about filling that void and we chose none of them. Right now, one key problem is that IQ and Dante are the same guy (IQ is better) as a result, we have a lot of guys that do the same thing which creates a log-jam.

Getting a lunch-pail back up 4 should be a priority, but it won't be until MAYBE the wee hours of the trade deadline.

I am still beside myself that we didnt do something to get Cam Whitmore.

[nykballa2k4]

It's hard to know. The muscles that were unused while he kept his ankle imobilized are certainly weaker and he may still have pain. He may have less use of his ankle now, and they may feel he needs to strengthen it more before severely testing it.

OR, of course, there's a possiblity that Randle doesn't give a **** about playing defense, his team, his teammates, the fans, and just doesn't ever want to exert himself and is perfectly fine with being a well paid a$$hole.

Since he's played a lot better at times in the past, it's either one or the other.

I think his defense has always been B-. He has never been great at close-outs on the perimeter. He is generally good at staying in front of his man and contesting in the post. The problem is when he is late on that rotation and his guy hits 3 3's in a row... it looks bad. Compounded when he himself is missing the same open 3's. His shot is clearly off which is an indicator of muscle memory being off and legs being more fatigued.

Also, Randle's been coming to a slow boil over not getting calls from the referees. It's been simmering over the last few games and it started early in the Bucks game, if I recall correctly. He can't seem to be able to ignore them. He seems unable to forget about it and keep his focus on where he has to be on the court.

I don't know. Hasn't the NY media posed this question to Knicks' management? Thibs? Julius?

He and Jalen are both not getting calls this year. Refs are on a mission this year.

[8516knicks]

"Hasn't the NY media posed this question to Knicks' management? Thibs? Julius?" Surely, you jest.

[Clyde_Style]

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

It's hard to know. The muscles that were unused while he kept his ankle imobilized are certainly weaker and he may still have pain. He may have less use of his ankle now, and they may feel he needs to strengthen it more before severely testing it.

OR, of course, there's a possiblity that Randle doesn't give a **** about playing defense, his team, his teammates, the fans, and just doesn't ever want to exert himself and is perfectly fine with being a well paid a$$hole.

Since he's played a lot better at times in the past, it's either one or the other.

He's probably playing his way into 100% shape, so his wind isn't there, completely.

So he's coasting on defense to save energy for offense.
He's not the first important scorer on a team to do this.

This is on the coach and the FO.
Thibs could demand 100% effort on both sides of the ball and sit Randle when it's not there.

The FO traded the one backup PF the team had, and didn't decide to even have a JAG scrub like Roby or Knight on the team, just in case. I mean, I doubt any coach would be into playing Roby or Knight 28 minutes to Randle's 20, but there would be more options to make Randle take a seat.

So it's a Randle/Thibs problem.

The more we dissect the current situation the more clear it becomes this is Thibs responsibility.

Thibs is simply a lazy thinker who really thought he could ride a guy like Randle this season without any backup.

If Thibs wanted more depth at the position there would be someone there, no matter what the FO is up to. This is on Thibs.

The rest of the blames goes to the organization for catering to the stupid Nova Mob meme. Donte may end up being a good player for us, but it was such an inappropriate choice positionally that there is no excuse for this either.

Mostly, I blame Thibs for the roster emphasis since I believe the FO mostly caters to him. Yet, the Nova Mob thing still shifts a portion of the blame to the FO even if Thibs is an unimaginative stick in the mud.

If I had to choose right now between firing Thibs or the FO, I'd go with Thibs first and then see how they handle the rest of the season.

[Clyde_Style]

Do you think that a different head coach would get more out of this particular roster than Thibs does? In other words, is this a roster constructed to fit Thibs's coaching philosophy?

The roster isn't constructed too well, and I believe if the Knicks had a different coach, they won't have the roster as its constructed.

But yes. I think with this squad, a coach with a better methodology on offense would do better. Very little ball movement because the system favors ISO plays. Fine during crunch time, but painful and boring beforehand. JB should be running more pick and rolls, or pops. Grimes -- who I think it s great cutter -- should be more involved in backdoors, cuts, screens, etc.

Agreed. Posted my last post before I scrolled up and read your post. You can see I agree this has Thibs fingerprints all over it.

Regardless, he still does not optimize what he's got. We're losing games we could have won so it's not a lost cause yet. But he will lose the team if he doesn't adjust and enforce some standards based on merit and effort given.

[Clyde_Style]

He needs to get back in game shape after being off his foot during the offseason. Normally we;d have a back up 4 taking on some of that (like Toppin in the playoffs) but of course we sabotaged ourselves this summer.

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

Randle looks fit. He was posting the usual off-season workout videos to show he was coming into camp in shape. People were even complimenting his leaner physique. That's not it.

The reason he's not trying hard is

He's a Bum

[Jalen Bluntson]

I floated the possibility of the ankle too. I think a lot of us felt that way since we wanted to acquire a real backup at PF this past offseason.

I remember trying to play ball on a sprained ankle. It doesn’t take much to throw off your game both offensively and defensively.

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

Randle looks fit. He was posting the usual off-season workout videos to show he was coming into camp in shape. People were even complimenting his leaner physique. That's not it.

The reason he's not trying hard is

He's a Bum

List of excuses made for Randle not playing well:


Actual reason:

[Clyde_Style]

He's not playing as if he's out of shape or injured though. We have 6 games of him walking up an down he court. Not getting back. Not rotating. Not even TRYING. It doesn't look at all like he's tired or injured. It looks like absolute lack of effort.

The roster is another thing but, it doesn't excuse what we are seeing. Look at he clips man. That's not conditioning issues.

Randle looks fit. He was posting the usual off-season workout videos to show he was coming into camp in shape. People were even complimenting his leaner physique. That's not it.

The reason he's not trying hard is

He's a Bum

List of excuses made for Randle not playing well:


Actual reason:

Well said

[jvsimonetti0514]

Randle looks slower and I know surgery can sometimes stiffen up joints and it’s usually only recommended if you really need it. When the margin of error is way smaller like it is with professional sports I don’t see how it couldn’t be a factor. That doesn’t excuse a lot of his laziness or lack of effort but could explain the brick fest. Hopefully once the scar tissue breaks down or he trusts the ankle more he’ll look more like his normal self. This season, just like last one goes as Julius goes.