Miami Heat 2023/2024 Training Camp and Regular Season Thread

[twix2500]

Yeah I was shocked the Heat didn't want them in particular Oubre when the Heat don't have a player of his body type/athletic ability on the roster. Borderline starter/6th man for minimum.....

Huh the Heat have Caleb, Jaquez and Highsmith all similar builds

I wanted Oubre but I understand they were stacked in that role. It would be redundant. You also have to understand how he would be utilized here.

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I disagree, Caleb, Jaquez and Highsmith are nice but they aren't the same build as Oubre. Oubre's can flat out score the ball. Martin is nice but outside of his great ECFs he's been a solid scorer for us at best, Jaquez still unpolished and Highsmith offense is limited to open spot up threes and assisted layups of cuts to the basket.

What I would give to have a guy off the bench giving us 21ppg shooting 53FG% and 45% from 3. He's also gotten to the rim on 33% of his FG attempts so far which this team desperately lacking.

Not picking him up was a mistake. Especially when you consider that Philly a conference rival picked him up and he's a big part of why that team hasn't fallen off which most expected with losing Harden and not making many additions prior to that.

You are talking about someone taking a lot of shots, not body build? Here is the problem with Herro increase of shot and Bams increase and taking in account Butler has reduced shots to allow Herro and Bam to increase their shots there is not alot of shots to go around to have another player score 20 plus. This is why players like Duncan and Strus are or important because they are capable of exploding for 20 plus on very little shot attempts. There are limited amount of shots a game. The Heat need players who can score in areas that are not in the way of Herro, Butler and Bam.

They are trying to develop Jaquez in a way that he can fit with the team and not be in the way. Hopefully he can develop into a complementary off the bench scorer. But at best you are expecting 15 per (which is extremely high expectations) because of the lack shots available. Are you really gonna take shots away from Butler, Bam and Herro so Oubre can get 17 to 18 fga? No

That's why players like Tucker had such a huge impact on the offense because he could score in areas outside of Bam, Herro and Butler.

The reason I would take Randle, because he can score in ways thats not in the way of the Heats top 3. He is also a guy who can set good screens. Having a bunch of skinny guys who can't set screens is a recipe for disaster on this team. But a guy like Randle has to accept at taking a lesser role to not be in the way.

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[contract]

Huh the Heat have Caleb, Jaquez and Highsmith all similar builds

I wanted Oubre but I understand they were stacked in that role. It would be redundant. You also have to understand how he would be utilized here.

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I disagree, Caleb, Jaquez and Highsmith are nice but they aren't the same build as Oubre. Oubre's can flat out score the ball. Martin is nice but outside of his great ECFs he's been a solid scorer for us at best, Jaquez still unpolished and Highsmith offense is limited to open spot up threes and assisted layups of cuts to the basket.

What I would give to have a guy off the bench giving us 21ppg shooting 53FG% and 45% from 3. He's also gotten to the rim on 33% of his FG attempts so far which this team desperately lacking.

Not picking him up was a mistake. Especially when you consider that Philly a conference rival picked him up and he's a big part of why that team hasn't fallen off which most expected with losing Harden and not making many additions prior to that.

You are talking about someone taking a lot of shots, not body build? Here is the problem with Herro increase of shot and Bams increase and taking in account Butler has reduced shots to allow Herro and Bam to increase their shots there is not alot of shots to go around to have another player score 20 plus. This is why players like Duncan and Strus are or important because they are capable of exploding for 20 plus on very little shot attempts. There are limited amount of shots a game. The Heat need players who can score in areas that are not in the way of Herro, Butler and Bam.

They are trying to develop Jaquez in a way that he can fit with the team and not be in the way. Hopefully he can develop into a complementary off the bench scorer. But at best you are expecting 15 per because of the lack shots available. Are you really gonna take shots away from Butler, Bam and Herro so Oubre can get 17 to 18 fga? No

That's why players like Tucker had such a huge impact on the offense because he could score in areas outside of Bam, Herro and Butler.

The reason I would take Randle, because he can score in ways thats not in the way of the Heats top 3. He is also a guy who can set good screens. Having a bunch of skinny guys who can't set screens is a recipe for disaster on this team. But a guy like Randle has to accept at taking a lesser role to not be in the way.

Are you really gonna take shots away from Butler and Bam so Herro can get 21 fga?

[twix2500]

I disagree, Caleb, Jaquez and Highsmith are nice but they aren't the same build as Oubre. Oubre's can flat out score the ball. Martin is nice but outside of his great ECFs he's been a solid scorer for us at best, Jaquez still unpolished and Highsmith offense is limited to open spot up threes and assisted layups of cuts to the basket.

What I would give to have a guy off the bench giving us 21ppg shooting 53FG% and 45% from 3. He's also gotten to the rim on 33% of his FG attempts so far which this team desperately lacking.

Not picking him up was a mistake. Especially when you consider that Philly a conference rival picked him up and he's a big part of why that team hasn't fallen off which most expected with losing Harden and not making many additions prior to that.

You are talking about someone taking a lot of shots, not body build? Here is the problem with Herro increase of shot and Bams increase and taking in account Butler has reduced shots to allow Herro and Bam to increase their shots there is not alot of shots to go around to have another player score 20 plus. This is why players like Duncan and Strus are or important because they are capable of exploding for 20 plus on very little shot attempts. There are limited amount of shots a game. The Heat need players who can score in areas that are not in the way of Herro, Butler and Bam.

They are trying to develop Jaquez in a way that he can fit with the team and not be in the way. Hopefully he can develop into a complementary off the bench scorer. But at best you are expecting 15 per because of the lack shots available. Are you really gonna take shots away from Butler, Bam and Herro so Oubre can get 17 to 18 fga? No

That's why players like Tucker had such a huge impact on the offense because he could score in areas outside of Bam, Herro and Butler.

The reason I would take Randle, because he can score in ways thats not in the way of the Heats top 3. He is also a guy who can set good screens. Having a bunch of skinny guys who can't set screens is a recipe for disaster on this team. But a guy like Randle has to accept at taking a lesser role to not be in the way.

Are you really gonna take shots away from Butler and Bam so Herro can get 21 fga?

Its already happening. Not my choice

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[contract]

You are talking about someone taking a lot of shots, not body build? Here is the problem with Herro increase of shot and Bams increase and taking in account Butler has reduced shots to allow Herro and Bam to increase their shots there is not alot of shots to go around to have another player score 20 plus. This is why players like Duncan and Strus are or important because they are capable of exploding for 20 plus on very little shot attempts. There are limited amount of shots a game. The Heat need players who can score in areas that are not in the way of Herro, Butler and Bam.

They are trying to develop Jaquez in a way that he can fit with the team and not be in the way. Hopefully he can develop into a complementary off the bench scorer. But at best you are expecting 15 per because of the lack shots available. Are you really gonna take shots away from Butler, Bam and Herro so Oubre can get 17 to 18 fga? No

That's why players like Tucker had such a huge impact on the offense because he could score in areas outside of Bam, Herro and Butler.

The reason I would take Randle, because he can score in ways thats not in the way of the Heats top 3. He is also a guy who can set good screens. Having a bunch of skinny guys who can't set screens is a recipe for disaster on this team. But a guy like Randle has to accept at taking a lesser role to not be in the way.

Are you really gonna take shots away from Butler and Bam so Herro can get 21 fga?

Its already happening. Not my choice

I know. My point is that teams don't always lean on their best option. But going back to the subject, Oubre's performance will decline as his shooting percentages start creeping back to his career numbers.

[IceColdCubano]

I will say this, If Herro is playing this aggressive and improving his efficiency. I would like Bam Adebayo to go back to his 20-10 with Dpoy level defense, looking at his advanced metrics he just is not playing with the the defense that we all know about him, he is scoring at a higher clip sure, his mid game looks improved but his rebounding is lower, and his defensive metrics are subpar as well. I think the extra energy he expels is better used if its focused on pure defense, god knows this team needs it.

Im a big believer in the eye test over so called advanced metrics. I have not seen any drop off from Bam defensively.

I get that, the eye test, but he is currently middle of the pack in metrics like 22nd on defensive FG% defended, perhaps our team is so bad defensively this year it makes his numbers that much worse. He isn't even on the top ten list of DPOY candidates where he usually sits hovering around 3-5 depending on the year. I'll give it another 20 games before I worry too much. My hope is that his extra effort in scoring isn't the reason why he doesn't have the energy to be DPOY level player.

[twix2500]

I will say this, If Herro is playing this aggressive and improving his efficiency. I would like Bam Adebayo to go back to his 20-10 with Dpoy level defense, looking at his advanced metrics he just is not playing with the the defense that we all know about him, he is scoring at a higher clip sure, his mid game looks improved but his rebounding is lower, and his defensive metrics are subpar as well. I think the extra energy he expels is better used if its focused on pure defense, god knows this team needs it.

Im a big believer in the eye test over so called advanced metrics. I have not seen any drop off from Bam defensively.

I get that, the eye test, but he is currently middle of the pack in metrics like 22nd on defensive FG% defended, perhaps our team is so bad defensively this year it makes his numbers that much worse. He isn't even on the top ten list of DPOY candidates where he usually sits hovering around 3-5 depending on the year. I'll give it another 20 games before I worry too much. My hope is that his extra effort in scoring isn't the reason why he doesn't have the energy to be DPOY level player.

I think the individual stats that you are looking at is being effected by the poor team play. Individually much of the roster playing well. Playing as a team is what the pass 6 games is where the team is struggling. The Wiz game was the only game the team played well together

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[IceColdCubano]

I was driving back from Miami to Tampa yesterday heading home, in those wonderful 3.5 hours I was sitting there pondering about why we've had such a bad start at one point going 1-4. Winning against the wizards isn't going to make me feel any better about this team, but its a start to turning things around. So I was looking at the roster top to bottom saying what's changed from last year? To be fair to the coaching staff has a lot to figure out.

Lets talk about our bench, its not just about new players its also about who now has a bigger role or an updated role.
New roles on the bench:
- Caleb Martin, was our de-facto starting PF during the season, and in the playoffs spend time off and on starting and playing from the bench based on matchups. This year its clear they are wanting him in the 6th man scorer role off the bench, and him coming in with injuries has kind of put a pause to this being a seamless transition.
- Haywood Highsmith, is a player we have been slowly building up in our program trying to turn him into a serviceable 3&D wing. Looks to have improved his shooting to the point where he can now be used as one of the many wings and possible PF's perhaps even ours starting PF. He also like Caleb started the season on the injury list and he has been working his way back.
- Dru Smith, another player based out of our reclamation program to shine rocks into somewhat shinny pearls. This year being low on the ball handler, and him being a guy in our program, steady and with low turnovers is also taking big minutes off the bench as a PG and off Guard during minutes hes on the floor with Lowry.
- Then we have 3 new players, a rookie in JJJ, Josh Richardson & Thomas Bryant all three playing significant roles for us coming off the bench. Regardless that Josh played here a couple of years ago, it doesn't change the fact he is playing alongside new guys on the bench and with starters outside of Bam there's nobody there he played with.
That's 6 players either new to the system or finding out their roles and working towards building continuity with the roles they have been given.

Now lets discuss changes with the starters:
- Lowry, came into camp in better shape, expected this being his last year. Currently nothing really different here, except he is spending way more time off the ball than last year, with Herro taking a leap and doing more ball handling. One would think he should be shooting more, but with his age he will problably pace himself for the playoffs and keep his body healthy for a long season. If anything his reduced weight could prove that by end of season he may play more games he has ever played while being part of the Heat.
- Kevin Love, you can say the same about Love, came into camp in better shape, we hope that means he will stay healthier for the long season. I think we need him for the playoffs more than the regular season, we have enough Wings and Tweener Forwards on the team to keep his minutes low.
- Jimmy Butler, nothing big looks to have changed, same mentality of take it easy during the season pace himself and increase effort closer to the end of the season. Also looks like the Herro leap has affected his on the ball time when both him and Herro are on the court together, they really need to figure this out it looks clunky. Wizards game was much better, as Jimmy started to play off Herro doing back cuts and screening, dumbfounding why they don't do this more.
- Bam Adebayo, looks to have improved his mid range jumper, he looks way more conformable taking that shot. However this is starting to take some energy in the top off the key and off the elbow he wasn't getting before, which is getting us more open corner three's and cuts to the basket when he finds our guys, you can tell they are starting to build chemistry here with that play. I expect he will increase his Assist's as the season goes on, and his becomes deadlier with that middy shot. Similar to KG & Tim Duncan that midrange game opened the rest of the floor for the team, and allowed for offensive rebounding by forcing the big to step out of the circle for a couple seconds.
- Tyler Herro, I still need to see this be more consistent not just an early season phase, but he looks much more improved. Which is good to see, regardless what you think about him or his ceiling him improving is great for the team. You can see that now coaching staff takes him off the floor quickly and brings him back to play that 6th man role again kind of cheating by staggering the lineups. However those Jimmy, Herro lineups did well last game its usually Herro & Bam that has the better chemistry. He is without a doubt our best 3pt shooter, and sometimes finds himself on the ball too much and should spend more time as a off ball threat where he allows our non-shooters like Jimmy and Bam to manage the middle of the court.

I thinks just looking at this overall there's a lot to fix, and the lineups are still clunky, and guys are still feeling their roles and building chemistry. I believe that you should see improvement as the season goes along.

[twix2500]

I was driving back from Miami to Tampa yesterday heading home, in those wonderful 3.5 hours I was sitting there pondering about why we've had such a bad start at one point going 1-4. Winning against the wizards isn't going to make me feel any better about this team, but its a start to turning things around. So I was looking at the roster top to bottom saying what's changed from last year? To be fair to the coaching staff has a lot to figure out.

Lets talk about our bench, its not just about new players its also about who now has a bigger role or an updated role.
New roles on the bench:
- Caleb Martin, was our de-facto starting PF during the season, and in the playoffs spend time off and on starting and playing from the bench based on matchups. This year its clear they are wanting him in the 6th man scorer role off the bench, and him coming in with injuries has kind of put a pause to this being a seamless transition.
- Haywood Highsmith, is a player we have been slowly building up in our program trying to turn him into a serviceable 3&D wing. Looks to have improved his shooting to the point where he can now be used as one of the many wings and possible PF's perhaps even ours starting PF. He also like Caleb started the season on the injury list and he has been working his way back.
- Dru Smith, another player based out of our reclamation program to shine rocks into somewhat shinny pearls. This year being low on the ball handler, and him being a guy in our program, steady and with low turnovers is also taking big minutes off the bench as a PG and off Guard during minutes hes on the floor with Lowry.
- Then we have 3 new players, a rookie in JJJ, Josh Richardson & Thomas Bryant all three playing significant roles for us coming off the bench. Regardless that Josh played here a couple of years ago, it doesn't change the fact he is playing alongside new guys on the bench and with starters outside of Bam there's nobody there he played with.
That's 6 players either new to the system or finding out their roles and working towards building continuity with the roles they have been given.

Now lets discuss changes with the starters:
- Lowry, came into camp in better shape, expected this being his last year. Currently nothing really different here, except he is spending way more time off the ball than last year, with Herro taking a leap and doing more ball handling. One would think he should be shooting more, but with his age he will problably pace himself for the playoffs and keep his body healthy for a long season. If anything his reduced weight could prove that by end of season he may play more games he has ever played while being part of the Heat.
- Kevin Love, you can say the same about Love, came into camp in better shape, we hope that means he will stay healthier for the long season. I think we need him for the playoffs more than the regular season, we have enough Wings and Tweener Forwards on the team to keep his minutes low.
- Jimmy Butler, nothing big looks to have changed, same mentality of take it easy during the season pace himself and increase effort closer to the end of the season. Also looks like the Herro leap has affected his on the ball time when both him and Herro are on the court together, they really need to figure this out it looks clunky. Wizards game was much better, as Jimmy started to play off Herro doing back cuts and screening, dumbfounding why they don't do this more.
- Bam Adebayo, looks to have improved his mid range jumper, he looks way more conformable taking that shot. However this is starting to take some energy in the top off the key and off the elbow he wasn't getting before, which is getting us more open corner three's and cuts to the basket when he finds our guys, you can tell they are starting to build chemistry here with that play. I expect he will increase his Assist's as the season goes on, and his becomes deadlier with that middy shot. Similar to KG & Tim Duncan that midrange game opened the rest of the floor for the team, and allowed for offensive rebounding by forcing the big to step out of the circle for a couple seconds.
- Tyler Herro, I still need to see this be more consistent not just an early season phase, but he looks much more improved. Which is good to see, regardless what you think about him or his ceiling him improving is great for the team. You can see that now coaching staff takes him off the floor quickly and brings him back to play that 6th man role again kind of cheating by staggering the lineups. However those Jimmy, Herro lineups did well last game its usually Herro & Bam that has the better chemistry. He is without a doubt our best 3pt shooter, and sometimes finds himself on the ball too much and should spend more time as a off ball threat where he allows our non-shooters like Jimmy and Bam to manage the middle of the court.

I thinks just looking at this overall there's a lot to fix, and the lineups are still clunky, and guys are still feeling their roles and building chemistry. I believe that you should see improvement as the season goes along.

The first 5 games the plays looked like crap. Players didn't know what to run. You seen players standing around the 3 point line look at Herro trying to be Kyrie and players were jacking shots up quickly. Its why the pace is higher, the team was not executing plays instead free styling.

The team pace is higher than normal at 100 right now. Too fast and thats why they look like trash.

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[carnageta]

Wish Bam would attempt 2 threes a game. If Scottie Barnes can do it, Bam can as well.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I will say this, If Herro is playing this aggressive and improving his efficiency. I would like Bam Adebayo to go back to his 20-10 with Dpoy level defense, looking at his advanced metrics he just is not playing with the the defense that we all know about him, he is scoring at a higher clip sure, his mid game looks improved but his rebounding is lower, and his defensive metrics are subpar as well. I think the extra energy he expels is better used if its focused on pure defense, god knows this team needs it.

Im a big believer in the eye test over so called advanced metrics. I have not seen any drop off from Bam defensively.

I get that, the eye test, but he is currently middle of the pack in metrics like 22nd on defensive FG% defended, perhaps our team is so bad defensively this year it makes his numbers that much worse. He isn't even on the top ten list of DPOY candidates where he usually sits hovering around 3-5 depending on the year. I'll give it another 20 games before I worry too much. My hope is that his extra effort in scoring isn't the reason why he doesn't have the energy to be DPOY level player.

Terrible team defense as you’ve had Lowry Herro Love and idgaf Jimmy starting and playing majority of the minutes next to him this season. Rebounding wise, his teammates are flying in from the perimeter and snatching rebounds from him, he’s not going to fight them for rebounds. He made a joke about that after the Wizards game. In isolation defensive possessions he’s been the best defender in the league by far early on and the Heats defense has been far better with him on opposed to off.

It’s likely the team will be so bad again this year that our guys will not get recognized with in season and end of season awards though regardless of what they do. That’s horrible roster construction for ya

[VaDe255]

Wish Bam would attempt 2 threes a game. If Scottie Barnes can do it, Bam can as well.

I don't, shooting 3s at 30% is inefficient, it doesn't do anything either. Barnes can do that, but Heat are trying to win games and develop good habbits for the playoffs.
I rather want him to finish more at the rim and draw fouls, instead of jump shots.
That's what would truely have impact on their chances to win.

He should work on 3s in the off season and get comfortable until it's efficient.
If he can make them when he is left wide open with no contest then ye, 34%+ clip it would be fine, otherwise don't bother.

[carnageta]

Wish Bam would attempt 2 threes a game. If Scottie Barnes can do it, Bam can as well.

I don't, shooting 3s at 30% is inefficient, it doesn't do anything either. Barnes can do that, but Heat are trying to win games and develop good habbits for the playoffs.
I rather want him to finish more at the rim and draw fouls, instead of jump shots.
That's what would truely have impact on their chances to win.

He should work on 3s in the off season and get comfortable until it's efficient.
If he can make them when he is left wide open with no contest then ye, 34%+ clip it would be fine, otherwise don't bother.

Only way to get better is if you actually get in-game repetition.

Most of Bam's 3 point attempts in his career have been at the tail-end of shot-clock situations and / or heaves from halfcourt+. We don't have a good understanding of what % he would actually average over the course of 20-30 games if he attempted them within the flow of the game on a consistent basis.

[al bondiga]

I am Also a big Or huge believer in the Eye test And marketing test when it comes to NBA... That being said the way I can truly judge the Current Miami Heat will be after 20 or 30 games

[VaDe255]

Wish Bam would attempt 2 threes a game. If Scottie Barnes can do it, Bam can as well.

I don't, shooting 3s at 30% is inefficient, it doesn't do anything either. Barnes can do that, but Heat are trying to win games and develop good habbits for the playoffs.
I rather want him to finish more at the rim and draw fouls, instead of jump shots.
That's what would truely have impact on their chances to win.

He should work on 3s in the off season and get comfortable until it's efficient.
If he can make them when he is left wide open with no contest then ye, 34%+ clip it would be fine, otherwise don't bother.

Only way to get better is if you actually get in-game repetition.

Most of Bam's 3 point attempts in his career have been at the tail-end of shot-clock situations and / or heaves from halfcourt+. We don't have a good understanding of what % he would actually average over the course of 20-30 games if he attempted them within the flow of the game on a consistent basis.

In the Minnesota game, Bam took a wide-open 3p-ter, which is a good sign that the team is willing to explore this aspect of his game. I'm not saying he shouldn't develop this skill.

If Bam can demonstrate improved 3p shooting in a controlled setting, it would make sense to gradually incorporate that into his in-game. For now, focusing on his strengths—finishing at the rim, drawing fouls, and anchoring the defense—will more directly contribute to winning games.

[carnageta]

I don't, shooting 3s at 30% is inefficient, it doesn't do anything either. Barnes can do that, but Heat are trying to win games and develop good habbits for the playoffs.
I rather want him to finish more at the rim and draw fouls, instead of jump shots.
That's what would truely have impact on their chances to win.

He should work on 3s in the off season and get comfortable until it's efficient.
If he can make them when he is left wide open with no contest then ye, 34%+ clip it would be fine, otherwise don't bother.

Only way to get better is if you actually get in-game repetition.

Most of Bam's 3 point attempts in his career have been at the tail-end of shot-clock situations and / or heaves from halfcourt+. We don't have a good understanding of what % he would actually average over the course of 20-30 games if he attempted them within the flow of the game on a consistent basis.

In the Minnesota game, Bam took a wide-open 3p-ter, which is a good sign that the team is willing to explore this aspect of his game. I'm not saying he shouldn't develop this skill.

If Bam can demonstrate improved 3p shooting in a controlled setting, it would make sense to gradually incorporate that into his in-game. For now, focusing on his strengths—finishing at the rim, drawing fouls, and anchoring the defense—will more directly contribute to winning games.

That Manny game was the only game this season in which he has taken a three pointer. He only has 1 3pt attempt all season long.

If he takes 1-2 threes per game in the flow of the offence, i.e. from the corner when his man is sagging off 10+ feet into the paint - I don't really see how that would be detrimental to the offence.

[eddieheatfan]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/273592/Heat-Offered-Gabe-Vincent-$34M-Over-Four-Years-Compared-To-$33M-For-Three-From-Lakers

even gabe didnt wanted to be here lol

[Bishop45]

Good thing that we only want folks that play both offense and defense round here

Read on Twitter

[DayofMourning]

Good thing that we only want folks that play both offense and defense round here

Read on Twitter

Thats whats up. Dame is cooked. Heat are Finals bound with peak Herro.

[Daffy]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/273592/Heat-Offered-Gabe-Vincent-$34M-Over-Four-Years-Compared-To-$33M-For-Three-From-Lakers

even gabe didnt wanted to be here lol

Honestly I'm glad he didn't. Don't think he'd be worth that money.

[Daffy]

Good thing that we only want folks that play both offense and defense round here

Read on Twitter

I wonder if he's intentionally mailing it in. He doesn't really seem invested fully to be honest.