Cade Cunningham - Any Concerns?

[ConSarnit]

It's a bit bogus because apparently the Pistons are trying to juice Killian Hayes stats to trade him at the deadline, otherwise there is no excuse to be playing him over Ivey as Hayes is virtually unplayable. Ivey may even be better than Cade. There's some potential to be a solid pro but I've not seen anything even all-starish yet, much less generational.

The trouble is that bad organizations rot from the head first and the stink gets so deep that it can spoil entire careers. Cade will get extended, no doubt, just because there's no choice but to go all in. He did show some slight improvement over his rookie year so there's a chance he will eventually be a decent player--in some other organization.

Detroit is not doing him any favors. He has no one who can help him get easy shots and he’s playing in one of the worst offensive lineup’s imaginable. Killian/Thompson/Duren is just brutal spacing. I don’t believe anyone could make that offense go.

I don’t think he’s a number #1 but I think he has #2 potential, it’s just that DET roster is such as mess who knows what he really is. For the love of god stop playing Hayes so many minutes.

[Capn'O]

When Cade was first a prospect, the hype was thru the roof, generational player they said. Not Wemby level, but basically a guy that could be an American Luka..

I get the reason for this thread, but realgm gotta stop blaming 'hype' for lack of basic sports literacy. No one said 'he will definitely be Luka Doncic,' or at least no one worth listening to did. People said he was a very smart player who had been dominant with that at most levels and had the size and skills to be a star if things worked out well, but he was still just a prospect with the usual prospect questions--how well will his strengths translate, how will NBA size and spacing effect him, etc. A player like Wemby got the resounding hype he did because everyone was basically sure that he would be very effective at many things even if he had a poor translation and adaptation. That was not the book on Cade, lots of question marks and possible outcomes, even if there was a lot of confidence in him as a leader/creator because of his track record.

Overall I'd say he's been below average but not a disaster for his possible outcomes, like maybe a 3/10. Shooting and TOs have been a little worse than expected but those were definitely concern spots about him as a prospect. He's been able to produce well and sometimes take over, though, so he hasn't been a failure as a pick. Just not been that great at the consistent execution so far.

Also, I don't remember hype like that at all. Obviously hyped up enough to be a top prospect but nobody was projecting superstar, let alone generational player. Just a very good player, worthy of the top pick that year.

[lordjeff05]

Cade is the chosen tank commander this season. Detroit start the season 2-5 en route to what will likely be a bottom 5 finish in the NBA.

This is expected because of how young the team is.

When Cade was first a prospect, the hype was thru the roof, generational player they said. Not Wemby level, but basically a guy that could be an American Luka.

Last season he got injured early, but this season he’s come out the gates swinging.

Let’s start with the good:
Offensively he is mostly good, he’s getting to his spots, showing his feel for the game, finishing and shooting decently enough so far.

He’s dishing it out, 7.3 APG is nothing to mess with. He’s being the offensive facilitator and playmaker, he shows the IQ

Now the bad:
He’s averaging 5.6 TO per a game. This is the second worst in history. When Harden averaged 5.7 he did it on 10 assists.

The defense is trash (assumption here based on #s). He’s got 2 guys that are defensive anchors next to him in Duren and Thompson and even in his lesser role it looks bad.

All the advanced metrics are trash, BPM, WS, TS, Detroit is negative with him on the court. it’s all terrible.

The comparisons for Cade were Harden/Luka, but Harden and Luka became winning players really quickly. Even on bad teams, Harden and Luka showed great promise really quickly. I’m not saying Cade hasn’t shown potential, but any starter is capable of averaging 20 ppg if given Cade’s role.

If I was a Detroit fan I'd be really excited. You can see the roadmap here and Cade is a huge part of that. I disagree with some of your points. First he was never considered an American Luka. He was the clear number 1 pick but that had as much to do with the class at it had to do with him. Also, guys like Luka had the entire offensive scheme tailored to them. Detroit is focusing on development so it is giving guys floor time that would not usually get it for a team that was competing to get in to the playoffs.

I think the turnovers and inefficiency are reflective of the lineups and role. He's the only reliable perimeter scorer in the starting unit. He's having to run pick and roll with a crowded paint because no one has to respect Ausar or Killian's shot. You put two average wing shooters next to him and it opens up the floor.

You can see how the team will be good once a)they switch out the wings or b) the wings improve. They have no incentive to be good this year so I see why they'd invest the time in to getting Ausar starter reps and kicking the tires one more time on Killian.

But the future of this team with a big point guard that can shoot and two mobile active defensive bigs looks bright. I disagree about your statement about the defense too. When Cade plays with beef stew and Durian, Detroit has a 105.5 defensive rating which would be good for 5th in the league. Having two bigs that can switch and one who can defend the rim changes the game. It is the cornerstone of some of the other good, modern defenses, like Memphis with Adams and JJJ or when Horford played next to Time Lord. Playing two bigs is actually kind of old school but if one can shoot and at least one can guard the perimeter it allows you to protect the paint.

[Godymas]

When Cade was first a prospect, the hype was thru the roof, generational player they said. Not Wemby level, but basically a guy that could be an American Luka..

I get the reason for this thread, but realgm gotta stop blaming 'hype' for lack of basic sports literacy. No one said 'he will definitely be Luka Doncic,' or at least no one worth listening to did. People said he was a very smart player who had been dominant with that at most levels and had the size and skills to be a star if things worked out well, but he was still just a prospect with the usual prospect questions--how well will his strengths translate, how will NBA size and spacing effect him, etc. A player like Wemby got the resounding hype he did because everyone was basically sure that he would be very effective at many things even if he had a poor translation and adaptation. That was not the book on Cade, lots of question marks and possible outcomes, even if there was a lot of confidence in him as a leader/creator because of his track record.

Overall I'd say he's been below average but not a disaster for his possible outcomes, like maybe a 3/10. Shooting and TOs have been a little worse than expected but those were definitely concern spots about him as a prospect. He's been able to produce well and sometimes take over, though, so he hasn't been a failure as a pick. Just not been that great at the consistent execution so far.

The Luka comparison is actually from Cade's own mouth, go listen to his interview on the JJ Redick's podcast

[Godymas]

Cade is the chosen tank commander this season. Detroit start the season 2-5 en route to what will likely be a bottom 5 finish in the NBA.

This is expected because of how young the team is.

When Cade was first a prospect, the hype was thru the roof, generational player they said. Not Wemby level, but basically a guy that could be an American Luka.

Last season he got injured early, but this season he’s come out the gates swinging.

Let’s start with the good:
Offensively he is mostly good, he’s getting to his spots, showing his feel for the game, finishing and shooting decently enough so far.

He’s dishing it out, 7.3 APG is nothing to mess with. He’s being the offensive facilitator and playmaker, he shows the IQ

Now the bad:
He’s averaging 5.6 TO per a game. This is the second worst in history. When Harden averaged 5.7 he did it on 10 assists.

The defense is trash (assumption here based on #s). He’s got 2 guys that are defensive anchors next to him in Duren and Thompson and even in his lesser role it looks bad.

All the advanced metrics are trash, BPM, WS, TS, Detroit is negative with him on the court. it’s all terrible.

The comparisons for Cade were Harden/Luka, but Harden and Luka became winning players really quickly. Even on bad teams, Harden and Luka showed great promise really quickly. I’m not saying Cade hasn’t shown potential, but any starter is capable of averaging 20 ppg if given Cade’s role.

I mean here's literally a BR draft article citing his pro comparison as Luka:
If I was a Detroit fan I'd be really excited. You can see the roadmap here and Cade is a huge part of that. I disagree with some of your points. First he was never considered an American Luka. He was the clear number 1 pick but that had as much to do with the class at it had to do with him. Also, guys like Luka had the entire offensive scheme tailored to them. Detroit is focusing on development so it is giving guys floor time that would not usually get it for a team that was competing to get in to the playoffs.

I think the turnovers and inefficiency are reflective of the lineups and role. He's the only reliable perimeter scorer in the starting unit. He's having to run pick and roll with a crowded paint because no one has to respect Ausar or Killian's shot. You put two average wing shooters next to him and it opens up the floor.

You can see how the team will be good once a)they switch out the wings or b) the wings improve. They have no incentive to be good this year so I see why they'd invest the time in to getting Ausar starter reps and kicking the tires one more time on Killian.

But the future of this team with a big point guard that can shoot and two mobile active defensive bigs looks bright. I disagree about your statement about the defense too. When Cade plays with beef stew and Durian, Detroit has a 105.5 defensive rating which would be good for 5th in the league. Having two bigs that can switch and one who can defend the rim changes the game. It is the cornerstone of some of the other good, modern defenses, like Memphis with Adams and JJJ or when Horford played next to Time Lord. Playing two bigs is actually kind of old school but if one can shoot and at least one can guard the perimeter it allows you to protect the paint.

I mean here's literally a BR article citing his draft comp as Luka: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944279-cade-cunninghams-draft-scouting-report-pro-comparison-updated-pistons-roster

but here's also Cade Cunningham explaining how he's like Luka

Watch on YouTube

[Godymas]

When Cade was first a prospect, the hype was thru the roof, generational player they said. Not Wemby level, but basically a guy that could be an American Luka..

I get the reason for this thread, but realgm gotta stop blaming 'hype' for lack of basic sports literacy. No one said 'he will definitely be Luka Doncic,' or at least no one worth listening to did. People said he was a very smart player who had been dominant with that at most levels and had the size and skills to be a star if things worked out well, but he was still just a prospect with the usual prospect questions--how well will his strengths translate, how will NBA size and spacing effect him, etc. A player like Wemby got the resounding hype he did because everyone was basically sure that he would be very effective at many things even if he had a poor translation and adaptation. That was not the book on Cade, lots of question marks and possible outcomes, even if there was a lot of confidence in him as a leader/creator because of his track record.

Overall I'd say he's been below average but not a disaster for his possible outcomes, like maybe a 3/10. Shooting and TOs have been a little worse than expected but those were definitely concern spots about him as a prospect. He's been able to produce well and sometimes take over, though, so he hasn't been a failure as a pick. Just not been that great at the consistent execution so far.

Also, I don't remember hype like that at all. Obviously hyped up enough to be a top prospect but nobody was projecting superstar, let alone generational player. Just a very good player, worthy of the top pick that year.

no worries, let me go ahead and refresh you on what the hype was for Cade in 2021

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-daily-cover
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944279-cade-cunninghams-draft-scouting-report-pro-comparison-updated-pistons-roster
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2021/
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/2/17/22284032/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-2021

"Cunningham is the basketball version of Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech"
"The gold standard for the type of offensive player that Cunningham can become is Luka Doncic."

[Roger Murdock]

There are some alarm bells about him that were basically brushed under the rug because of Luka Doncics success, even though Luka is bigger, stronger, more athletic, more skilled, and more talented.

1. Cade's athleticism is extremely poor for someone who's supposed to be a go-to scorer/playmaker hybrid. These players almost always have great first steps and can almost always beat their man off the dribble comfortably. Cade is horrible at this and needs lots of screens or time to get by his man. This will not improve because he doesnt have the athleticism for it.

2. Because of his lack of athleticism he relies on an extremely difficult shot diet. He couldn't get separation in college, and can't in the NBA. Hes a pretty good shooter but to get his points he needs to make contested jumpers. He doesn't get to the rim and isn't effective finishing close. He doesnt get to the foul line because his defenders can stay in front of him and in position. Basically, Cade cant generate any easy looks for himself. His efficiency should improve as he gets more polished and smarter, but hes not going to be a +TS% high usage player.

3. Hes an overrated passer and playmaker. He's got a loose handle and is very turnover prone. Again, he cannot beat his man off the dribble, which is the #1 skill for a dynamic playmaker. When you get past your man, the defense scrambles and rotates and it leaves people open for easy passes and easy buckets. Cade doesnt make the defense scramble, which means the passing lanes aren't there. Just like Cade relies on a tough shot diet for points, he relies on more difficult passes and less space and as a playmaker.

These three issues are unlikely to improve considerably because the root cause is he is a D-level athlete for his NBA role and isn't a good enough shooter or passer to make up for it.

Cade is great at basketball overall but he is cast for the wrong role. He's dynamic, versatile, high IQ, etc. But you absolutely cannot be this limited and be a 1-man engine on offense or you will be on <30 win teams your entire career. Hes actually a really smart off ball player, and if hes given a role where he runs around off screens he will get more space and the defense will be scrambling which will open up passing lanes and create opportunities for the team.

I mostly agree with this

The thing that I'm still reserving judgement on is the turnovers. Detroit's line up is a bit of a mess, and short of players with good hands as well as a good shot (i.e won't get crowded) which really messes up the passing angles. He also is playing with a new coach and system after taking most of last season off. If (biggish if) Cade is able to reduce his turnovers in the next year I think it makes a huge difference in his efficiency, but all the other concerns are still there.

I expect the turnovers to comedown but for him still to be turnover prone.

Like I think in a high usage role he will be a 4/TO a game type guy. Which is better than where hes at. I do not see him being a <3 TO guy ever, even in a smaller role.

[Capn'O]

I get the reason for this thread, but realgm gotta stop blaming 'hype' for lack of basic sports literacy. No one said 'he will definitely be Luka Doncic,' or at least no one worth listening to did. People said he was a very smart player who had been dominant with that at most levels and had the size and skills to be a star if things worked out well, but he was still just a prospect with the usual prospect questions--how well will his strengths translate, how will NBA size and spacing effect him, etc. A player like Wemby got the resounding hype he did because everyone was basically sure that he would be very effective at many things even if he had a poor translation and adaptation. That was not the book on Cade, lots of question marks and possible outcomes, even if there was a lot of confidence in him as a leader/creator because of his track record.

Overall I'd say he's been below average but not a disaster for his possible outcomes, like maybe a 3/10. Shooting and TOs have been a little worse than expected but those were definitely concern spots about him as a prospect. He's been able to produce well and sometimes take over, though, so he hasn't been a failure as a pick. Just not been that great at the consistent execution so far.

Also, I don't remember hype like that at all. Obviously hyped up enough to be a top prospect but nobody was projecting superstar, let alone generational player. Just a very good player, worthy of the top pick that year.

no worries, let me go ahead and refresh you on what the hype was for Cade in 2021

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-daily-cover
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944279-cade-cunninghams-draft-scouting-report-pro-comparison-updated-pistons-roster
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2021/
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/2/17/22284032/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-2021

"Cunningham is the basketball version of Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech"
"The gold standard for the type of offensive player that Cunningham can become is Luka Doncic."

I've just started the SI article and it's peppered with contingencies such as:

In the minds of many, he’s the clear-cut top dog.

He might be Rookie of the Year this time next year, he might not.

There was never one moment or play that screamed Future No. 1 pick. But clearly, Cunningham was the most impactful player on the floor.

There are still holes when you look at the numbers, but you have to want to find them. High-usage guards often struggle with turnovers as a byproduct of volume.

That article makes a case for him at #1 but is also clear that he's not even necessarily best in class in a draft class that was not highly regarded. Basically that he was a consistently solid player. There have only been a few #1 picks where there isn't a path to a superstar level player. Whereas the hype for Wemby and Zion was basically that health would be the only factor keeping them from superstardom.

[AbC?]

His entire appeal was being a jumbo playmaker. It turned out that he wasn’t actually 6’8 and is built more like a guard than a forward.

[chilluminati]

As a fan the only thing I'm really concerned about is that his bag is small. He relied on size and worse defenders in college/HS, and his NBA bag just isn't there yet, which is why you see him chucking middies and threes most of the time, because his drives are literally just going right and throwing up a layup, which worked when he was bigger and stronger than everyone else, but now he needs to get creative and be a bit more slithery on his drives. If he had a repertoire of driving moves his percentages would be higher. But as of right now we have to just hope he can continue to develop. Poor percentages and turnovers can be fixed as he and his squad grow/change to be more applicable to his skill set (aka more space).

[vege]

Cade is the chosen tank commander this season. Detroit start the season 2-5 en route to what will likely be a bottom 5 finish in the NBA.

This is expected because of how young the team is.

When Cade was first a prospect, the hype was thru the roof, generational player they said. Not Wemby level, but basically a guy that could be an American Luka.

Last season he got injured early, but this season he’s come out the gates swinging.

Let’s start with the good:
Offensively he is mostly good, he’s getting to his spots, showing his feel for the game, finishing and shooting decently enough so far.

He’s dishing it out, 7.3 APG is nothing to mess with. He’s being the offensive facilitator and playmaker, he shows the IQ

Now the bad:
He’s averaging 5.6 TO per a game. This is the second worst in history. When Harden averaged 5.7 he did it on 10 assists.

The defense is trash (assumption here based on #s). He’s got 2 guys that are defensive anchors next to him in Duren and Thompson and even in his lesser role it looks bad.

All the advanced metrics are trash, BPM, WS, TS, Detroit is negative with him on the court. it’s all terrible.

The comparisons for Cade were Harden/Luka, but Harden and Luka became winning players really quickly. Even on bad teams, Harden and Luka showed great promise really quickly. I’m not saying Cade hasn’t shown potential, but any starter is capable of averaging 20 ppg if given Cade’s role.

If I was a Detroit fan I'd be really excited. You can see the roadmap here and Cade is a huge part of that. I disagree with some of your points. First he was never considered an American Luka. He was the clear number 1 pick but that had as much to do with the class at it had to do with him. Also, guys like Luka had the entire offensive scheme tailored to them. Detroit is focusing on development so it is giving guys floor time that would not usually get it for a team that was competing to get in to the playoffs.

I think the turnovers and inefficiency are reflective of the lineups and role. He's the only reliable perimeter scorer in the starting unit. He's having to run pick and roll with a crowded paint because no one has to respect Ausar or Killian's shot. You put two average wing shooters next to him and it opens up the floor.

You can see how the team will be good once a)they switch out the wings or b) the wings improve. They have no incentive to be good this year so I see why they'd invest the time in to getting Ausar starter reps and kicking the tires one more time on Killian.

But the future of this team with a big point guard that can shoot and two mobile active defensive bigs looks bright. I disagree about your statement about the defense too. When Cade plays with beef stew and Durian, Detroit has a 105.5 defensive rating which would be good for 5th in the league. Having two bigs that can switch and one who can defend the rim changes the game. It is the cornerstone of some of the other good, modern defenses, like Memphis with Adams and JJJ or when Horford played next to Time Lord. Playing two bigs is actually kind of old school but if one can shoot and at least one can guard the perimeter it allows you to protect the paint.

You're probably one of the very few people posting in this thread who actually watched him play. Kudos for you.

[cgf]

He's a crafty kid with too much on his plate and not enough help while Bogey & Burks are banged up; so the efficiency doesn't worry me yet. Let me see how he's doing once he's figured this league out more, filled out more, polished his skills more, and has some more help around him.

Not saying he'll be Luka 2.0, but it can be easier to start off efficient when you have an elite tool you are building your game out from & a defined role that gets gradually expanded, than when the part of your game that stands out is how you use your tools & you're asked to do it all...unless you're Luka lol.

So if the Pistons wanna give up on him early, I'd love to have him in NY.

[HotelVitale]

I get the reason for this thread, but realgm gotta stop blaming 'hype' for lack of basic sports literacy. No one said 'he will definitely be Luka Doncic,' or at least no one worth listening to did. People said he was a very smart player who had been dominant with that at most levels and had the size and skills to be a star if things worked out well, but he was still just a prospect with the usual prospect questions--how well will his strengths translate, how will NBA size and spacing effect him, etc. A player like Wemby got the resounding hype he did because everyone was basically sure that he would be very effective at many things even if he had a poor translation and adaptation. That was not the book on Cade, lots of question marks and possible outcomes, even if there was a lot of confidence in him as a leader/creator because of his track record.

Overall I'd say he's been below average but not a disaster for his possible outcomes, like maybe a 3/10. Shooting and TOs have been a little worse than expected but those were definitely concern spots about him as a prospect. He's been able to produce well and sometimes take over, though, so he hasn't been a failure as a pick. Just not been that great at the consistent execution so far.

Also, I don't remember hype like that at all. Obviously hyped up enough to be a top prospect but nobody was projecting superstar, let alone generational player. Just a very good player, worthy of the top pick that year.

no worries, let me go ahead and refresh you on what the hype was for Cade in 2021

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-daily-cover
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944279-cade-cunninghams-draft-scouting-report-pro-comparison-updated-pistons-roster
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2021/
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/2/17/22284032/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-2021

"Cunningham is the basketball version of Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech"
"The gold standard for the type of offensive player that Cunningham can become is Luka Doncic."

If you actually read or listen to these, they are all ways of creating interest/hype without actually saying anything stupid or flat-out wrong. The quote there is absolutely not saying 'he will be Luka Doncic,' it's saying Luka is the best at being the type of player/role that Cade is. That's very true and not that interesting. And the Mahomes thing is obviously just a very loose comp across sports (plus Mahomes wasn't close to a #1 pick out of college).

These articles aren't saying that much either. The Ringer one names Cade's strengths and weaknesses very straightforwardly, seems very non-hype-ish (it's also called "Cade Cunningham Can Do It All But Can He Anchor an NBA Team?"). The second one is like 5 sentences just explaining why he's the #1 pick. The Jeremy Woo article is pretty strange, it names the TO and shooting % issues very directly but it's aiming for hype so just makes bad excuses for them. No one who knows how to follow a prospect would read these and come away from any of those articles thinking this was a phenomenal generational prospect.

[HotelVitale]

Cade is the chosen tank commander this season. Detroit start the season 2-5 en route to what will likely be a bottom 5 finish in the NBA.

This is expected because of how young the team is.

When Cade was first a prospect, the hype was thru the roof, generational player they said. Not Wemby level, but basically a guy that could be an American Luka.

Last season he got injured early, but this season he’s come out the gates swinging.

Let’s start with the good:
Offensively he is mostly good, he’s getting to his spots, showing his feel for the game, finishing and shooting decently enough so far.

He’s dishing it out, 7.3 APG is nothing to mess with. He’s being the offensive facilitator and playmaker, he shows the IQ

Now the bad:
He’s averaging 5.6 TO per a game. This is the second worst in history. When Harden averaged 5.7 he did it on 10 assists.

The defense is trash (assumption here based on #s). He’s got 2 guys that are defensive anchors next to him in Duren and Thompson and even in his lesser role it looks bad.

All the advanced metrics are trash, BPM, WS, TS, Detroit is negative with him on the court. it’s all terrible.

The comparisons for Cade were Harden/Luka, but Harden and Luka became winning players really quickly. Even on bad teams, Harden and Luka showed great promise really quickly. I’m not saying Cade hasn’t shown potential, but any starter is capable of averaging 20 ppg if given Cade’s role.

I mean here's literally a BR draft article citing his pro comparison as Luka:
If I was a Detroit fan I'd be really excited. You can see the roadmap here and Cade is a huge part of that. I disagree with some of your points. First he was never considered an American Luka. He was the clear number 1 pick but that had as much to do with the class at it had to do with him. Also, guys like Luka had the entire offensive scheme tailored to them. Detroit is focusing on development so it is giving guys floor time that would not usually get it for a team that was competing to get in to the playoffs.

I think the turnovers and inefficiency are reflective of the lineups and role. He's the only reliable perimeter scorer in the starting unit. He's having to run pick and roll with a crowded paint because no one has to respect Ausar or Killian's shot. You put two average wing shooters next to him and it opens up the floor.

You can see how the team will be good once a)they switch out the wings or b) the wings improve. They have no incentive to be good this year so I see why they'd invest the time in to getting Ausar starter reps and kicking the tires one more time on Killian.

But the future of this team with a big point guard that can shoot and two mobile active defensive bigs looks bright. I disagree about your statement about the defense too. When Cade plays with beef stew and Durian, Detroit has a 105.5 defensive rating which would be good for 5th in the league. Having two bigs that can switch and one who can defend the rim changes the game. It is the cornerstone of some of the other good, modern defenses, like Memphis with Adams and JJJ or when Horford played next to Time Lord. Playing two bigs is actually kind of old school but if one can shoot and at least one can guard the perimeter it allows you to protect the paint.

I mean here's literally a BR article citing his draft comp as Luka: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944279-cade-cunninghams-draft-scouting-report-pro-comparison-updated-pistons-roster

but here's also Cade Cunningham explaining how he's like Luka

Not sure if you're playing dumb a little bit here, but draft comparisons are obviously useless for anything besides getting you in the ballpark about what a player generally looks/plays like. Any tall wing who can drive and hit midrangers is Tatum or PG now, any big point who can throw a no-look pass was J Kidd for the whole 2010s. That type of thing is meant for the very lowest-information fans out there who really don't know a thing about any of these prospects. Obviously not saying every prospect will end up as good as those guys, otherwise most of the lottery would be HOF players every year.

Even for Cade talking about himself thing (do we really have to talk about how much credence to put into players' hyping themselves up?), there's a clear difference between being 'like' a player and being as good as that player at their strengths. That's what most of drafting and scouting is about.

[PD28]

I was high on him in the draft but some concerns I had then are still apparent. Never thought he had NBA athleticism and he's struggling to get to the rim efficiently. To be able to excel in the NBA without elite athleticism, you need to have a deep bag. Luka is able to do what he does because you have to respect his shot, his vision and his dribble. Currently with Cade, you don't really need to respect his shot or dribble - vision is debatable as well with this high TOs.

[Godymas]

I mean here's literally a BR draft article citing his pro comparison as Luka:
If I was a Detroit fan I'd be really excited. You can see the roadmap here and Cade is a huge part of that. I disagree with some of your points. First he was never considered an American Luka. He was the clear number 1 pick but that had as much to do with the class at it had to do with him. Also, guys like Luka had the entire offensive scheme tailored to them. Detroit is focusing on development so it is giving guys floor time that would not usually get it for a team that was competing to get in to the playoffs.

I think the turnovers and inefficiency are reflective of the lineups and role. He's the only reliable perimeter scorer in the starting unit. He's having to run pick and roll with a crowded paint because no one has to respect Ausar or Killian's shot. You put two average wing shooters next to him and it opens up the floor.

You can see how the team will be good once a)they switch out the wings or b) the wings improve. They have no incentive to be good this year so I see why they'd invest the time in to getting Ausar starter reps and kicking the tires one more time on Killian.

But the future of this team with a big point guard that can shoot and two mobile active defensive bigs looks bright. I disagree about your statement about the defense too. When Cade plays with beef stew and Durian, Detroit has a 105.5 defensive rating which would be good for 5th in the league. Having two bigs that can switch and one who can defend the rim changes the game. It is the cornerstone of some of the other good, modern defenses, like Memphis with Adams and JJJ or when Horford played next to Time Lord. Playing two bigs is actually kind of old school but if one can shoot and at least one can guard the perimeter it allows you to protect the paint.

I mean here's literally a BR article citing his draft comp as Luka: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944279-cade-cunninghams-draft-scouting-report-pro-comparison-updated-pistons-roster

but here's also Cade Cunningham explaining how he's like Luka

Not sure if you're playing dumb a little bit here, but draft comparisons are obviously useless for anything besides getting you in the ballpark about what a player generally looks/plays like. Any tall wing who can drive and hit midrangers is Tatum or PG now, any big point who can throw a no-look pass was J Kidd for the whole 2010s. That type of thing is meant for the very lowest-information fans out there who really don't know a thing about any of these prospects. Obviously not saying every prospect will end up as good as those guys, otherwise most of the lottery would be HOF players every year.

Even for Cade talking about himself thing (do we really have to talk about how much credence to put into players' hyping themselves up?), there's a clear difference between being 'like' a player and being as good as that player at their strengths. That's what most of drafting and scouting is about.

this is the classic "non argument"

i showed you active proof that people are saying Cade has Luka comparisons and your rebuttal is "oh these are useless because i said so"

go re-read the OP, the statement is "a guy that could be an American Luka."

and yet you people like to take these as literal comparisons and 1:1 meanings, no that's what was originally said and that's what the proof supports in the articles shared

[XTC]

There's no reason why a guy at his size should be only getting 3 rebounds per game. Even with his athleticism, he's still 6-6 with 7-0 wingspan.

He has a great skillset, but his lack of athleticism is hindering his game. He has trouble getting to his spots, and his rim game is non existent. He's going to have to improve as a shooter, so the rest of his game opens up, because at this moment he's too easy to defend. I also think he's more suited as a secondary ball handler.

[Up-And-Coming]

Ya the hype that Detroit got after drafting Cade and Ivey was way too premature. They were catapulted to the best young core in the East and one of the best overall by many. I think they can still be quality NBA players but underwhelming considering their draft positions and hype (Cade #1 2021 and Ivey #5 2022).

With that said, I really liked Detroit's other draft selections in Jalen Duren and Ausar Thompson. I can more easily see those two having high-impact roles on a winning team.

[Dominator83]

When Cade was first a prospect, the hype was thru the roof, generational player they said. Not Wemby level, but basically a guy that could be an American Luka..

I get the reason for this thread, but realgm gotta stop blaming 'hype' for lack of basic sports literacy. No one said 'he will definitely be Luka Doncic,' or at least no one worth listening to did. People said he was a very smart player who had been dominant with his IQ at previous levels and had the size and skills to be a star if things worked out well, but he was still just a prospect with the usual prospect questions--how well will his strengths translate, how will NBA size and spacing effect him, etc. A player like Wemby got the resounding hype he did because everyone was basically sure that he would be very effective at many things even if he had a poor translation and adaptation. That was not the book on Cade, lots of question marks and possible outcomes, even if there was a lot of confidence in him as a leader/creator because of his track record.

Overall I'd say he's been below average but not a disaster for his possible outcomes, like maybe a 3/10. Shooting and TOs have been a little worse than expected but those were definitely concern spots about him as a prospect. He's been able to produce well and sometimes take over, though, so he hasn't been a failure as a pick. Just not been that great at the consistent execution so far.

Totally agree here. I'm not sure where this Luka stuff is coming from. Like, I do recall that Cade was the consensus #1 pick, but i don't recall it being of the AD or Zion variety. His was more in line with Paulo/Chet IIRC

[tsherkin]

My first thought in answer to the OP's question is "how bad he is at efficient scoring."