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[JujitsuFlip]

Yeah, but those Bucks picks took a hit with the Dame trade and the Giannis extension. They have one more Lakers pick and that's it (they can elect to take either the 24 or 25 1st). I've been listening to my fellow Cavs fans covet guys like Daniels and Jones, but they looked flat out bad against the Warriors tonight. JV is about done (and expiring). CJ looks like a 6th man. Even Nance was decidedly meh.

Yeah, I'm good on trading with them.

After the whole D-Mitch circumvention of the Stepien rule, a rule freaking named after our franchise; i automatically hold franchises in higher regard that control their own draft future.

I'm a little surprised the NBA didn't fix the swap right thing after the Billy King fiasco. What happened with the Stepien rule is that no one would buy the Cavs and Gund Brothers essentially demanded the league give the Cavs their firsts back as a condition of the offer. I'm not sure that would ever happen again given how inflated the team values are now.

Assuming we refuse to trade Garland or Mobley,
I'm skeptical the Jazz will be better than us in 26 or 28. The swap rights may not matter.

Unless they put Murphy on the table for Allen, I'd want to wait until the summer to trade with the Pels. If Ingram refuses to extend, that's when you make the call.

It's really odd because it goes against the heart of the rule. The whole point was to protect franchises so they had their pick every other year, at least. And i get it they do keep a pick but if they're butt and the other team isn't, then the team that was booty, was that way for no reason.

Yeah, tough to say what happens that many seasons out. I did discover that 2026 swap also has a wrinkle where the Cavs could get the Wolves pick, so that's cool but the 2028 pick swap is a straight up swap.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm watching this Pels game and c'mon you all don't think Mobley and/or Allen can at least reach the level of Jonas Valanciunas from 3?

[ijspeelman]

I'm watching this Pels game and c'mon you all don't think Mobley and/or Allen can at least reach the level of Jonas Valanciunas from 3?

Not that this is a perfect science, but before Jonas was shooting threes his FT% was 78% (high FT% tends to indicate better shooter). Mobley is at 67.1% for his career and Allen is at 70.4% (last three years 71.4%).

An even better indicator is long two FG% and Jonas was at 38.6% before starting to shoot threes. Mobley is at 36.1% for his career and Allen is at 32.7% (last three years 34.1%).

The same exercise can apply to a lot of the big men that converted into three point shooters: Al Horford, Brook Lopez, even someone like Aron Baynes.

I think the jury is out on if Mobley can develop this as he's still fairly early in his career. Horford, Lopez, Jonas, and Baynes all took between five and eight years to start shooting threes and their FT% and long 2% rose. Allen on the other hand will probably never be a spacer.

[jbk1234]

I'm watching this Pels game and c'mon you all don't think Mobley and/or Allen can at least reach the level of Jonas Valanciunas from 3?

I don't think it matters because other teams will live with them taking wide open looks if they reach JV's carrer average on his career average attempts per game. I mean he's averaging .3 makes a game. Not even a half a shot. Even if you go over the last five years he doesn't average a made 3 per game. So you pull him far away from the painted area, where on a good night he converts once, and he's not in a position to rebound when he or his teammates miss.

You have to shoot and make a lot of 3s to effectively stretch the floor.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm watching this Pels game and c'mon you all don't think Mobley and/or Allen can at least reach the level of Jonas Valanciunas from 3?

I don't think it matters because other teams will live with them taking wide open looks if they reach JV's carrer average on his career average attempts per game. I mean he's averaging .3 makes a game. Not even a half a shot. Even if you go over the last five years he doesn't average a made 3 per game. So you pull him far away from the painted area, where on a good night he converts once, and he's not in a position to rebound when he or his teammates miss.

You have to shoot and make a lot of 3s to effectively stretch the floor.

We just see things completely different.

It's not the 90's anymore.

You're okay with having 2 bigs who won't look at a shot outside of 10 feet... Let me throw in the asterisk of maybe you want Mobley to shoot it from 12 feet lol

It's about the threat... You don't value that, i highly value that, guy still averages nearly 10 boards per game, more than Mobley and Allen career # wise, i think he has a slight idea what he's doing.

[jbk1234]

I'm watching this Pels game and c'mon you all don't think Mobley and/or Allen can at least reach the level of Jonas Valanciunas from 3?

I don't think it matters because other teams will live with them taking wide open looks if they reach JV's carrer average on his career average attempts per game. I mean he's averaging .3 makes a game. Not even a half a shot. Even if you go over the last five years he doesn't average a made 3 per game. So you pull him far away from the painted area, where on a good night he converts once, and he's not in a position to rebound when he or his teammates miss.

You have to shoot and make a lot of 3s to effectively stretch the floor.

We just see things completely different.

It's not the 90's anymore.

You're okay with having 2 bigs who won't look at a shot outside of 10 feet... Let me throw in the asterisk of maybe you want Mobley to shoot it from 12 feet lol

It's about the threat... You don't value that, i highly value that, guy still averages nearly 10 boards per game, more than Mobley and Allen career # wise, i think he has a slight idea what he's doing.

My point is that JV's 3 point shooting, meager as it is, in't enough of a threat to change how we're defended, and that being the case, it's cons outweigh the pros of trying it with poor shooters.

[JujitsuFlip]

I don't think it matters because other teams will live with them taking wide open looks if they reach JV's carrer average on his career average attempts per game. I mean he's averaging .3 makes a game. Not even a half a shot. Even if you go over the last five years he doesn't average a made 3 per game. So you pull him far away from the painted area, where on a good night he converts once, and he's not in a position to rebound when he or his teammates miss.

You have to shoot and make a lot of 3s to effectively stretch the floor.

We just see things completely different.

It's not the 90's anymore.

You're okay with having 2 bigs who won't look at a shot outside of 10 feet... Let me throw in the asterisk of maybe you want Mobley to shoot it from 12 feet lol

It's about the threat... You don't value that, i highly value that, guy still averages nearly 10 boards per game, more than Mobley and Allen career # wise, i think he has a slight idea what he's doing.

My point is that JV's 3 point shooting, meager as it is, in't enough of a threat to change how we're defended, and that being the case, it's cons outweigh the pros of trying it with poor shooters.

From watching the Pels, I would disagree. Similar to Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, and Ibaka to name a few, once these guys weren't viewed as more than strictly back to the basket bigs, teams had to start going out there with them.

Allen and Mobley grab about 2 offensive rebounds per game, each. It's not like they're Mitchell Robinson and grabbing 4+ offensive boards per game. Neither of them predicate their games on OReb like retro Andy or retro Tristan.

[JonFromVA]

We just see things completely different.

It's not the 90's anymore.

You're okay with having 2 bigs who won't look at a shot outside of 10 feet... Let me throw in the asterisk of maybe you want Mobley to shoot it from 12 feet lol

It's about the threat... You don't value that, i highly value that, guy still averages nearly 10 boards per game, more than Mobley and Allen career # wise, i think he has a slight idea what he's doing.

My point is that JV's 3 point shooting, meager as it is, in't enough of a threat to change how we're defended, and that being the case, it's cons outweigh the pros of trying it with poor shooters.

From watching the Pels, I would disagree. Similar to Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, and Ibaka to name a few, once these guys weren't viewed as more than strictly back to the basket bigs, teams had to start going out there with them.

Allen and Mobley grab about 2 offensive rebounds per game, each. It's not like they're Mitchell Robinson and grabbing 4+ offensive boards per game. Neither of them predicate their games on OReb like retro Andy or retro Tristan.

Allen+Mobley are pretty close to Robinson+Randle in total offensive rebounds per game.

True gravity is a tricky thing. For instance, defenses would still often ignore Zydrunas when he'd set up on the perimeter because defending the paint against James was their priority and there's not much they could do to contest a 7'3" player shooting long 2's if that's how we wanted to run our offense. Some teams would adjust if he got hot.

Zion is a similar threat level in the paint, if you can find a play where JV dragged a defender out of the paint when Zion had the ball, I bet it was either a 1 in 10 or a coaching mistake. lol

[JujitsuFlip]

My point is that JV's 3 point shooting, meager as it is, in't enough of a threat to change how we're defended, and that being the case, it's cons outweigh the pros of trying it with poor shooters.

From watching the Pels, I would disagree. Similar to Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, and Ibaka to name a few, once these guys weren't viewed as more than strictly back to the basket bigs, teams had to start going out there with them.

Allen and Mobley grab about 2 offensive rebounds per game, each. It's not like they're Mitchell Robinson and grabbing 4+ offensive boards per game. Neither of them predicate their games on OReb like retro Andy or retro Tristan.

Allen+Mobley are pretty close to Robinson+Randle in total offensive rebounds per game.

True gravity is a tricky thing. For instance, defenses would still often ignore Zydrunas when he'd set up on the perimeter because defending the paint against James was their priority and there's not much they could do to contest a 7'3" player shooting long 2's if that's how we wanted to run our offense. Some teams would adjust if he got hot.

Zion is a similar threat level in the paint, if you can find a play where JV dragged a defender out of the paint when Zion had the ball, I bet it was either a 1 in 10 or a coaching mistake. lol

5.6 combined vs 5.1 combined for career #s but i think it avoids a lot of context.

Robinson's best season in OR was 4.5 (last season), I'm not counting his 6 this season since it's so early. The best Allen ever mustered was 3.4 (his All-Star season) and Mobley in his short career 2.4.

If we look at some Cavs who were renowned for that, TT at his best was 4.0 in back to back seasons and Andy's best was 5.5.

Given the context, no, i don't think it's super close.

Z played in a different era, not really comparable.

Zion doesn't really play enough games for him to even be a factor in the equation, he has only touched the floor 119 times in his 5 seasons in the NBA, that's not even equal to 1.5 seasons worth of games.

[JonFromVA]

From watching the Pels, I would disagree. Similar to Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, and Ibaka to name a few, once these guys weren't viewed as more than strictly back to the basket bigs, teams had to start going out there with them.

Allen and Mobley grab about 2 offensive rebounds per game, each. It's not like they're Mitchell Robinson and grabbing 4+ offensive boards per game. Neither of them predicate their games on OReb like retro Andy or retro Tristan.

Allen+Mobley are pretty close to Robinson+Randle in total offensive rebounds per game.

True gravity is a tricky thing. For instance, defenses would still often ignore Zydrunas when he'd set up on the perimeter because defending the paint against James was their priority and there's not much they could do to contest a 7'3" player shooting long 2's if that's how we wanted to run our offense. Some teams would adjust if he got hot.

Zion is a similar threat level in the paint, if you can find a play where JV dragged a defender out of the paint when Zion had the ball, I bet it was either a 1 in 10 or a coaching mistake. lol

5.6 combined vs 5.1 combined for career #s but i think it avoids a lot of context.

Robinson's best season in OR was 4.5 (last season), I'm not counting his 6 this season since it's so early. The best Allen ever mustered was 3.4 (his All-Star season) and Mobley in his short career 2.4.

If we look at some Cavs who were renowned for that, TT at his best was 4.0 in back to back seasons and Andy's best was 5.5.

Given the context, no, i don't think it's super close.

Z played in a different era, not really comparable.

Zion doesn't really play enough games for him to even be a factor in the equation, he has only touched the floor 119 times in his 5 seasons in the NBA, that's not even equal to 1.5 seasons worth of games.

I'm counting front court bigs combined for a reason. When you have two bigs, they're going to share rebounds and that doesn't take in to the account that Allen and Mobley often extend their defense to the 3pt line (which affects their defensive rebounding).

What Tristan did is all the more impressive given all the minutes he shared the court with rebounders like Andy Varejao, Timofey Mozgov, Kevin Love and LeBron James.

I brought up Zion in terms of spacing, not rebounding. He's exactly who would benefit the most if JV could actually pull the opponent's rim protector out of the paint.

[JujitsuFlip]

Allen+Mobley are pretty close to Robinson+Randle in total offensive rebounds per game.

True gravity is a tricky thing. For instance, defenses would still often ignore Zydrunas when he'd set up on the perimeter because defending the paint against James was their priority and there's not much they could do to contest a 7'3" player shooting long 2's if that's how we wanted to run our offense. Some teams would adjust if he got hot.

Zion is a similar threat level in the paint, if you can find a play where JV dragged a defender out of the paint when Zion had the ball, I bet it was either a 1 in 10 or a coaching mistake. lol

5.6 combined vs 5.1 combined for career #s but i think it avoids a lot of context.

Robinson's best season in OR was 4.5 (last season), I'm not counting his 6 this season since it's so early. The best Allen ever mustered was 3.4 (his All-Star season) and Mobley in his short career 2.4.

If we look at some Cavs who were renowned for that, TT at his best was 4.0 in back to back seasons and Andy's best was 5.5.

Given the context, no, i don't think it's super close.

Z played in a different era, not really comparable.

Zion doesn't really play enough games for him to even be a factor in the equation, he has only touched the floor 119 times in his 5 seasons in the NBA, that's not even equal to 1.5 seasons worth of games.

I'm counting front court bigs combined for a reason. When you have two bigs, they're going to share rebounds and that doesn't take in to the account that Allen and Mobley often extend their defense to the 3pt line (which affects their defensive rebounding).

What Tristan did is all the more impressive given all the minutes he shared the court with rebounders like Andy Varejao, Timofey Mozgov, Kevin Love and LeBron James.

I brought up Zion in terms of spacing, not rebounding. He's exactly who would benefit the most if JV could actually pull the opponent's rim protector out of the paint.

Where they extend their defense out to would impact defensive rebounding, that is not at all what jbk and i were discussing. Jbk is alluding to Mobley and/or Allen actually working on their offensive game and learning how to shoot would impact their rebounding. The only rebounding that could potentially hurt would be offensive, not defensive.

Obviously you're referencing spacing, I'm referencing the tiny sample that Zion has played in the NBA, specifically with Jonas. At most I have 34 games to pick from and that's if Jonas didn't miss any of the games that Zion actually played in. It's like finding a needle in a haystack... I'm sure in that small sample it's still there but I don't care enough to try and prove your point; my whole point is guys who weren't shooters entering the NBA can now shoot all way out to the 3 point line.

[jbk1234]

We just see things completely different.

It's not the 90's anymore.

You're okay with having 2 bigs who won't look at a shot outside of 10 feet... Let me throw in the asterisk of maybe you want Mobley to shoot it from 12 feet lol

It's about the threat... You don't value that, i highly value that, guy still averages nearly 10 boards per game, more than Mobley and Allen career # wise, i think he has a slight idea what he's doing.

My point is that JV's 3 point shooting, meager as it is, in't enough of a threat to change how we're defended, and that being the case, it's cons outweigh the pros of trying it with poor shooters.

From watching the Pels, I would disagree. Similar to Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, and Ibaka to name a few, once these guys weren't viewed as more than strictly back to the basket bigs, teams had to start going out there with them.

Allen and Mobley grab about 2 offensive rebounds per game, each. It's not like they're Mitchell Robinson and grabbing 4+ offensive boards per game. Neither of them predicate their games on OReb like retro Andy or retro Tristan.

First off, JV doesn't have any business being grouped in with the other big men you listed. He's at a career high in terms of 3p attempts and percentages through 7 games this season and his career his 2.3 attempts, not makes, per game. Those are guys are real threats.

As far as what you're watching, I can't speak to that. There are bad/dumb teams in the NBA. Maybe if he's made a couple you have a guy who is a bad defender anyway stick a hand in his face. In the game I watched, the Pelicans got dogwalked by the Warriors who we just beat.

I feel like in your mind, you're pocketing all the good things Allen and Mobley do and then just adding a slight uptick in 3 point shooting. That's not how it works. JV still plays in slow motion on defense, he still can't defend in space, and he's middling in terms of rim protection. Off of misses, anyone's misses, he's in no position to get a rebound or get back on defense. Also, he's getting up there and is on an expiring contract.

[JujitsuFlip]

My point is that JV's 3 point shooting, meager as it is, in't enough of a threat to change how we're defended, and that being the case, it's cons outweigh the pros of trying it with poor shooters.

From watching the Pels, I would disagree. Similar to Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, and Ibaka to name a few, once these guys weren't viewed as more than strictly back to the basket bigs, teams had to start going out there with them.

Allen and Mobley grab about 2 offensive rebounds per game, each. It's not like they're Mitchell Robinson and grabbing 4+ offensive boards per game. Neither of them predicate their games on OReb like retro Andy or retro Tristan.

First off, JV doesn't have any business being grouped in with the other big men you listed. He's at a career high in terms of 3p attempts and percentages through 7 games this season and his career his 2.3 attempts, not makes, per game. Those are guys are real threats.

As far as what you're watching, I can't speak to that. There are bad/dumb teams in the NBA. Maybe if he's made a couple you have a guy who is a bad defender anyway stick a hand in his face. In the game I watched, the Pelicans got dogwalked by the Warriors who we just beat.

I feel like in your mind, you're pocketing all the good things Allen and Mobley do and then just adding a slight uptick in 3 point shooting. That's not how it works. JV still plays in slow motion on defense, he still can't defend in space, and he's middling in terms of rim protection. Off of misses, anyone's misses, he's in no position to get a rebound or get back on defense. Also, he's getting up there and is on an expiring contract.

Where are you drawing the line? Seems like a fine line, he may be on the lower end but he is squarely in that conversation. We can review the #s, if ya want.

To your last paragraph, what does that have to do with anything, literally? lol

[JonFromVA]

5.6 combined vs 5.1 combined for career #s but i think it avoids a lot of context.

Robinson's best season in OR was 4.5 (last season), I'm not counting his 6 this season since it's so early. The best Allen ever mustered was 3.4 (his All-Star season) and Mobley in his short career 2.4.

If we look at some Cavs who were renowned for that, TT at his best was 4.0 in back to back seasons and Andy's best was 5.5.

Given the context, no, i don't think it's super close.

Z played in a different era, not really comparable.

Zion doesn't really play enough games for him to even be a factor in the equation, he has only touched the floor 119 times in his 5 seasons in the NBA, that's not even equal to 1.5 seasons worth of games.

I'm counting front court bigs combined for a reason. When you have two bigs, they're going to share rebounds and that doesn't take in to the account that Allen and Mobley often extend their defense to the 3pt line (which affects their defensive rebounding).

What Tristan did is all the more impressive given all the minutes he shared the court with rebounders like Andy Varejao, Timofey Mozgov, Kevin Love and LeBron James.

I brought up Zion in terms of spacing, not rebounding. He's exactly who would benefit the most if JV could actually pull the opponent's rim protector out of the paint.

Where they extend their defense out to would impact defensive rebounding, that is not at all what jbk and i were discussing. Jbk is alluding to Mobley and/or Allen actually working on their offensive game and learning how to shoot would impact their rebounding. The only rebounding that could potentially hurt would be offensive, not defensive.

Obviously you're referencing spacing, I'm referencing the tiny sample that Zion has played in the NBA, specifically with Jonas. At most I have 34 games to pick from and that's if Jonas didn't miss any of the games that Zion actually played in. It's like finding a needle in a haystack... I'm sure in that small sample it's still there but I don't care enough to try and prove your point; my whole point is guys who weren't shooters entering the NBA can now shoot all way out to the 3 point line.

a) I mentioned it affected defensive rebounding - it's in you're quote.

b) We have video from this season, go watch plays on nba.com and go show me a sign of gravity. Heck, show me whatever you feel like to backup your claim that JV has gravity. I didn't see it when I looked, and I really didn't expect to.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm counting front court bigs combined for a reason. When you have two bigs, they're going to share rebounds and that doesn't take in to the account that Allen and Mobley often extend their defense to the 3pt line (which affects their defensive rebounding).

What Tristan did is all the more impressive given all the minutes he shared the court with rebounders like Andy Varejao, Timofey Mozgov, Kevin Love and LeBron James.

I brought up Zion in terms of spacing, not rebounding. He's exactly who would benefit the most if JV could actually pull the opponent's rim protector out of the paint.

Where they extend their defense out to would impact defensive rebounding, that is not at all what jbk and i were discussing. Jbk is alluding to Mobley and/or Allen actually working on their offensive game and learning how to shoot would impact their rebounding. The only rebounding that could potentially hurt would be offensive, not defensive.

Obviously you're referencing spacing, I'm referencing the tiny sample that Zion has played in the NBA, specifically with Jonas. At most I have 34 games to pick from and that's if Jonas didn't miss any of the games that Zion actually played in. It's like finding a needle in a haystack... I'm sure in that small sample it's still there but I don't care enough to try and prove your point; my whole point is guys who weren't shooters entering the NBA can now shoot all way out to the 3 point line.

a) I mentioned it affected defensive rebounding - it's in you're quote.

b) We have video from this season, go watch plays on nba.com and go show me a sign of gravity. Heck, show me whatever you feel like to backup your claim that JV has gravity. I didn't see it when I looked, and I really didn't expect to.

A) i fail to see the relevance lol that would be like 2 people talking about different cuts of meat and you chiming in from the back about chocolate covered pretzels. Sure, they're both food but the chocolate covered pretzels have nothing to do with different cuts of meat.

B) nah, I'm good lol you're the one making the point about those 2 specific players. All i said is Mobley and Allen SHOULD be able to reach Jonas level of shooting ability from 3.

[Iwasawitness]

Kevin Love currently not starting for Miami, and I'd be willing to bet that he gets a DNP tonight. He was also out of the rotation in the previous game as well.

Question: We know Kevin wants to play and that he will not accept being a DNP for long. Let's say for the sake of argument that Kevin ends up getting released... would he be allowed to come back to Cleveland this season? Follow up question... in that scenario, do you guys think Cleveland would learn from their previous mistake and put Kevin back in the rotation?

[ijspeelman]

Kevin Love currently not starting for Miami, and I'd be willing to bet that he gets a DNP tonight. He was also out of the rotation in the previous game as well.

Question: We know Kevin wants to play and that he will not accept being a DNP for long. Let's say for the sake of argument that Kevin ends up getting released... would he be allowed to come back to Cleveland this season? Follow up question... in that scenario, do you guys think Cleveland would learn from their previous mistake and put Kevin back in the rotation?

I'm still one to believe that Love being out of the rotation was not necessarily a bad thing, however with our lack of big men he could be a good platoon piece with Damion Jones/Tristan Thompson for the match-up we have. I also doubt it happens.

I haven't watched him at all this year, but his offensive numbers look as good as last year so his defense must be atrocious for him to be out of that bench spot.

[jasonxxx102]

I'm watching this Pels game and c'mon you all don't think Mobley and/or Allen can at least reach the level of Jonas Valanciunas from 3?

Not that this is a perfect science, but before Jonas was shooting threes his FT% was 78% (high FT% tends to indicate better shooter). Mobley is at 67.1% for his career and Allen is at 70.4% (last three years 71.4%).

An even better indicator is long two FG% and Jonas was at 38.6% before starting to shoot threes. Mobley is at 36.1% for his career and Allen is at 32.7% (last three years 34.1%).

The same exercise can apply to a lot of the big men that converted into three point shooters: Al Horford, Brook Lopez, even someone like Aron Baynes.

I think the jury is out on if Mobley can develop this as he's still fairly early in his career. Horford, Lopez, Jonas, and Baynes all took between five and eight years to start shooting threes and their FT% and long 2% rose. Allen on the other hand will probably never be a spacer.

I'm gonna go ahead and say very low chance Mobley shoots 3s even close to Valanciunas level.

Forget the fact that he refuses to take even wide open shots (I blame JB for not empowering him to do so). His shot mechanics are bad.

He has no jumper at all, from anywhere on the court. His FTs are below average too. His load up and release is way too slow to ever be useful. His jumpshot has somehow regressed this year and looks as bad as it ever has. His shot is flat and he has no touch on floaters.

It's year 3 and there's been 0 progression offensively for him. I know I blame everything on JB but the players can only play within the system and role they are given. If you don't make progression in the 1st 3 years of your career the overwhelming chance is that you never will.

Brook is a bad comparison because he always shot FTs well and had a good looking jumper, he just never took 3s. He didn't even really ramp, he went from 0 to 35% on 5 a game.

Horford was also a decent FT shooter and had a good mid/long mid jumper his whole career, he just never shot 3s until Bud came around.

Baynes, another guy who was a really good FT shooter.

[ijspeelman]

I'm watching this Pels game and c'mon you all don't think Mobley and/or Allen can at least reach the level of Jonas Valanciunas from 3?

Not that this is a perfect science, but before Jonas was shooting threes his FT% was 78% (high FT% tends to indicate better shooter). Mobley is at 67.1% for his career and Allen is at 70.4% (last three years 71.4%).

An even better indicator is long two FG% and Jonas was at 38.6% before starting to shoot threes. Mobley is at 36.1% for his career and Allen is at 32.7% (last three years 34.1%).

The same exercise can apply to a lot of the big men that converted into three point shooters: Al Horford, Brook Lopez, even someone like Aron Baynes.

I think the jury is out on if Mobley can develop this as he's still fairly early in his career. Horford, Lopez, Jonas, and Baynes all took between five and eight years to start shooting threes and their FT% and long 2% rose. Allen on the other hand will probably never be a spacer.

I'm gonna go ahead and say very low chance Mobley shoots 3s even close to Valanciunas level.

Forget the fact that he refuses to take even wide open shots (I blame JB for not empowering him to do so). His shot mechanics are bad.

He has no jumper at all, from anywhere on the court. His FTs are below average too. His load up and release is way too slow to ever be useful. His jumpshot has somehow regressed this year and looks as bad as it ever has. His shot is flat and he has no touch on floaters.

It's year 3 and there's been 0 progression offensively for him. I know I blame everything on JB but the players can only play within the system and role they are given. If you don't make progression in the 1st 3 years of your career the overwhelming chance is that you never will.

Brook is a bad comparison because he always shot FTs well and had a good looking jumper, he just never took 3s. He didn't even really ramp, he went from 0 to 35% on 5 a game.

Horford was also a decent FT shooter and had a good mid/long mid jumper his whole career, he just never shot 3s until Bud came around.

Baynes, another guy who was a really good FT shooter.

Its a very low probability that Mobley ends up shooting threes efficiently at volume, but its not unprecedented.

I brought up those guys not as direct comparisons to Mobley, but those with the archetype that transitioned into three point shooters. Currently, Mobley is below their standards even for their experience in the league.

[jasonxxx102]

Not that this is a perfect science, but before Jonas was shooting threes his FT% was 78% (high FT% tends to indicate better shooter). Mobley is at 67.1% for his career and Allen is at 70.4% (last three years 71.4%).

An even better indicator is long two FG% and Jonas was at 38.6% before starting to shoot threes. Mobley is at 36.1% for his career and Allen is at 32.7% (last three years 34.1%).

The same exercise can apply to a lot of the big men that converted into three point shooters: Al Horford, Brook Lopez, even someone like Aron Baynes.

I think the jury is out on if Mobley can develop this as he's still fairly early in his career. Horford, Lopez, Jonas, and Baynes all took between five and eight years to start shooting threes and their FT% and long 2% rose. Allen on the other hand will probably never be a spacer.

I'm gonna go ahead and say very low chance Mobley shoots 3s even close to Valanciunas level.

Forget the fact that he refuses to take even wide open shots (I blame JB for not empowering him to do so). His shot mechanics are bad.

He has no jumper at all, from anywhere on the court. His FTs are below average too. His load up and release is way too slow to ever be useful. His jumpshot has somehow regressed this year and looks as bad as it ever has. His shot is flat and he has no touch on floaters.

It's year 3 and there's been 0 progression offensively for him. I know I blame everything on JB but the players can only play within the system and role they are given. If you don't make progression in the 1st 3 years of your career the overwhelming chance is that you never will.

Brook is a bad comparison because he always shot FTs well and had a good looking jumper, he just never took 3s. He didn't even really ramp, he went from 0 to 35% on 5 a game.

Horford was also a decent FT shooter and had a good mid/long mid jumper his whole career, he just never shot 3s until Bud came around.

Baynes, another guy who was a really good FT shooter.

Its a very low probability that Mobley ends up shooting threes efficiently at volume, but its not unprecedented.

I brought up those guys not as direct comparisons to Mobley, but those with the archetype that transitioned into three point shooters. Currently, Mobley is below their standards even for their experience in the league.

I do think it’s unprecedented. I can’t think of any big who went from bad to serviceable as a 3pt shooter. Especially not one who can’t shoot FTs or mid range jumpers

If your jumpshot is broken, and it’s not addressed very early in your career, you can’t “unbreak” it.

Honestly Mobley looks as if he’s never worked with a shooting coach at all. His shot mechanics are terrible