Cade Cunningham - Any Concerns?

[Roger Murdock]

The Luka comparisons are similar to what I've seen with Cavs fans 2-3 years ago

On Cavs boards lots of people didnt want Mitchell because we had Sexton and "they are similar players". Many Cavs fans actually thought Sexton was better, which was delusional.

Both are good scorers
Both are good shooters
Both are lightning quick and have good handles
Both aren't #1 playmakers
Both are short
Both are bad defenders

However Mitchell is wildly more athletic, can shoot off the dribble, is a much better passer and defender, he has a way higher BBIQ, a lightning quick release vs Sextons slow and low release etc.

Basically every single one of Sexton's strengths, Mitchell was 20-30% better at. Every one of Sextons weaknesses, Mitchell was 50-80% better at.

So you have two players with similars pros/cons, but a WILDLY different impact on a basketball game.



I think a similar phenomenon happened with Cade and Luka

Tall playmakers
Not elite athleticism
Turnover prone
Good shooters but not amazing
etc.

Its just Luka is better at everything across the board and the comparison isn't fair.

[QingJames]

It's a bit bogus because apparently the Pistons are trying to juice Killian Hayes stats to trade him at the deadline, otherwise there is no excuse to be playing him over Ivey as Hayes is virtually unplayable. Ivey may even be better than Cade. There's some potential to be a solid pro but I've not seen anything even all-starish yet, much less generational.

The trouble is that bad organizations rot from the head first and the stink gets so deep that it can spoil entire careers. Cade will get extended, no doubt, just because there's no choice but to go all in. He did show some slight improvement over his rookie year so there's a chance he will eventually be a decent player--in some other organization.

Ivey has been terrible in the NBA so far. I don’t think they’re putting him in a position to succeed so far, but he’s been really, really bad.

[MrBigShot]

I am slightly concerned but he did essentially miss his entire 2nd season, needs time to get back up to speed. His 3pt shooting looks better which is a plus.

Long term he takes too many contested midrange jumpers, has limited athleticism, and doesn't get to the line well, so I'm not sure he ever becomes an efficient scorer.

Something else to keep in mind is that although he's not a top ~10 player, he gets defended like it. Few players get as much defensive attention/double teams as Cade, in part because teams are able to do that against us. Kilian hayes is basically a non-factor on offense, ausar can't shoot yet, and then Bojan/Monte Morris/Livers are all about with injuries.

[QingJames]

When Cade was first a prospect, the hype was thru the roof, generational player they said. Not Wemby level, but basically a guy that could be an American Luka..

I get the reason for this thread, but realgm gotta stop blaming 'hype' for lack of basic sports literacy. No one said 'he will definitely be Luka Doncic,' or at least no one worth listening to did. People said he was a very smart player who had been dominant with that at most levels and had the size and skills to be a star if things worked out well, but he was still just a prospect with the usual prospect questions--how well will his strengths translate, how will NBA size and spacing effect him, etc. A player like Wemby got the resounding hype he did because everyone was basically sure that he would be very effective at many things even if he had a poor translation and adaptation. That was not the book on Cade, lots of question marks and possible outcomes, even if there was a lot of confidence in him as a leader/creator because of his track record.

Overall I'd say he's been below average but not a disaster for his possible outcomes, like maybe a 3/10. Shooting and TOs have been a little worse than expected but those were definitely concern spots about him as a prospect. He's been able to produce well and sometimes take over, though, so he hasn't been a failure as a pick. Just not been that great at the consistent execution so far.

Also, I don't remember hype like that at all. Obviously hyped up enough to be a top prospect but nobody was projecting superstar, let alone generational player. Just a very good player, worthy of the top pick that year.

Not true at all, people were heralding this guy as the American Luka and really ramped up that rhetoric when he had a month and a half of good games at the end of his rookie season. I distinctly remember people wrongly inserting Cade into the ROTY conversation based on his hype.

[ElectricMayhem]

I predicted the Pistons would go 2-8 in their first 10. Why? They are not that good and the starting schedule is very difficult. That means nobody is going to look good through the losses. Also, look who Cade is starting with: Killian Hayes, Ausar Thompson, Jalen Duren, and Isaiah Stewart. Two of those players are near the bottom of the league in offense, and the other two are bigs. Stewart is a streaky outside shooter, but other than that, there is absolutely nobody playing alongside Cade that can space the floor. Killian and Ausur's guys can cheat off of them onto Cade all day long. Cade's very good, but he's not a generational superstar that can slice through double and triple teams every time and maintain efficiency.

[brutalitops]

Considering He's played 82 games and this will be the first team which isn't trying to flat out suck. I dont mind, Yeah he turns it over a little but hes taking all the lead handling for a VERY raw offensive team. It's a steep curve, Your talking like if you drop CP3 in there suddenly Hayes is gonna be a sniper

His defense hasn't sucked either

Also who else are you going to defend when your vsing the Pistons? Your not lining your best perimeter defender on Hayes, Hell you are throwing double teams at Cade at every chance untill Ausar starts making 3's, Ivey is on the court or Bojan is back, Joe Harris has sucked but he's the only guy im having to respect apart from Bojan outside the Arc

[Richard Miller]

Also, I don't remember hype like that at all. Obviously hyped up enough to be a top prospect but nobody was projecting superstar, let alone generational player. Just a very good player, worthy of the top pick that year.

no worries, let me go ahead and refresh you on what the hype was for Cade in 2021

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-daily-cover
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944279-cade-cunninghams-draft-scouting-report-pro-comparison-updated-pistons-roster
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2021/
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/2/17/22284032/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-2021

"Cunningham is the basketball version of Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech"
"The gold standard for the type of offensive player that Cunningham can become is Luka Doncic."

If you actually read or listen to these, they are all ways of creating interest/hype without actually saying anything stupid or flat-out wrong. The quote there is absolutely not saying 'he will be Luka Doncic,' it's saying Luka is the best at being the type of player/role that Cade is. That's very true and not that interesting. And the Mahomes thing is obviously just a very loose comp across sports (plus Mahomes wasn't close to a #1 pick out of college).

These articles aren't saying that much either. The Ringer one names Cade's strengths and weaknesses very straightforwardly, seems very non-hype-ish (it's also called "Cade Cunningham Can Do It All But Can He Anchor an NBA Team?"). The second one is like 5 sentences just explaining why he's the #1 pick. The Jeremy Woo article is pretty strange, it names the TO and shooting % issues very directly but it's aiming for hype so just makes bad excuses for them. No one who knows how to follow a prospect would read these and come away from any of those articles thinking this was a phenomenal generational prospect.

Is 'Fade for Cade' hypeish enough? I remember a number of those

https://sports.yahoo.com/detroit-pistons-fade-cade-cunningham-015255237.html

[7r5ur]

Gotta see him when he's not next to 4 players that are terrible offensive players at this stage (Killian, Ausar) or extremely limited (Stew and Duren). We should get a small glimpse when he plays with Bojan, Monte Morris, and Burks when they get healthy. Plus hopefully Monty ditches the Killian expert and says Ivey has "learned his lesson" or whatever.

Hard to judge when he's playing 1-on-5. He's still only played 83 games in the league.

Biggest concern for now is staying healthy while being leaned on so heavily.

How I'm currently feeling is that I don't think he's going to single handedly carry a team of role players or something, but I do think he could be the best player on a well balanced team that has other a couple of other all-star-ish players. Like Booker on the Suns going to the finals or some of the previous Pistons squads.

[7r5ur]

no worries, let me go ahead and refresh you on what the hype was for Cade in 2021

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-daily-cover
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2944279-cade-cunninghams-draft-scouting-report-pro-comparison-updated-pistons-roster
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2021/
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/2/17/22284032/cade-cunningham-nba-draft-2021

"Cunningham is the basketball version of Patrick Mahomes at Texas Tech"
"The gold standard for the type of offensive player that Cunningham can become is Luka Doncic."

If you actually read or listen to these, they are all ways of creating interest/hype without actually saying anything stupid or flat-out wrong. The quote there is absolutely not saying 'he will be Luka Doncic,' it's saying Luka is the best at being the type of player/role that Cade is. That's very true and not that interesting. And the Mahomes thing is obviously just a very loose comp across sports (plus Mahomes wasn't close to a #1 pick out of college).

These articles aren't saying that much either. The Ringer one names Cade's strengths and weaknesses very straightforwardly, seems very non-hype-ish (it's also called "Cade Cunningham Can Do It All But Can He Anchor an NBA Team?"). The second one is like 5 sentences just explaining why he's the #1 pick. The Jeremy Woo article is pretty strange, it names the TO and shooting % issues very directly but it's aiming for hype so just makes bad excuses for them. No one who knows how to follow a prospect would read these and come away from any of those articles thinking this was a phenomenal generational prospect.

Is 'Fade for Cade' hypeish enough? I remember a number of those

https://sports.yahoo.com/detroit-pistons-fade-cade-cunningham-015255237.html

People do this basically every year that there are well known prospects at the top of the draft. Especially when a good rhyme is involved. Fans of bad teams want to feel excited about something lol

[Richard Miller]

People do this basically every year that there are well known prospects at the top of the draft. Especially when a good rhyme is involved. Fans of bad teams want to feel excited about something lol

True, but I'd still say maybe third most hype (pre-draft btw) for the last couple of drafts, behind Wemby and Zion

[HotelVitale]

People do this basically every year that there are well known prospects at the top of the draft. Especially when a good rhyme is involved. Fans of bad teams want to feel excited about something lol

True, but I'd still say maybe third most hype (pre-draft btw) for the last couple of drafts, behind Wemby and Zion

Honestly don't think anyone used phrases like generational talent or best prospect of the decade or anything for Cade, if he was 3rd after Wemby and Zion over the last decade or so that's only because they're haven't been many mega prospects. People were medium on Paolo, Edwards was one of the least hyped #1s ever, etc.

Also Simmons was more hyped than Cade. Fultz probably too.

[GoBobs]

His true shooting percentage is like worst in the league range bad. Like maybe not the worst guy, but in the bottom five type of bad. It is very slightly improved this year though 7 games but still terrible from your star player.

Until he does something different he is a total bust. He has one of the worst shooting efficiency in the league and turns it over a bunch. You can't even win with that guy in your rotation.

All the things detroit fans are saying about the roster setup being trash, important shooters being out, coming back from injury recently ect. All those things are true 100%

Excuses don't make you a good player though. Shooting a percentage that isn't one of the worst in the league makes you a good player. Until he does that, I am not buying him as even a decent player.

[Laimbeer]

From the minute he stepped on the court he hasn't looked special in any way to me. Not particularly big, athletic, or skilled. Not vocal or passionate. I started telling people he might be Chauncey Billups, but I don't think he'll even be that, tbh. It's only his third season, but guys who are number one overall worthy are normally pretty damn good by this point.

[Shock Defeat]

There is no offensive talent around him. Somehow the Pistons surrounded him with a bunch of non shooters. The game should be easier for him once there is talent so I'll cut him some slack. He's still not a #1 guy regardless but could be a really good #2

[nikster]

If you actually read or listen to these, they are all ways of creating interest/hype without actually saying anything stupid or flat-out wrong. The quote there is absolutely not saying 'he will be Luka Doncic,' it's saying Luka is the best at being the type of player/role that Cade is. That's very true and not that interesting. And the Mahomes thing is obviously just a very loose comp across sports (plus Mahomes wasn't close to a #1 pick out of college).

These articles aren't saying that much either. The Ringer one names Cade's strengths and weaknesses very straightforwardly, seems very non-hype-ish (it's also called "Cade Cunningham Can Do It All But Can He Anchor an NBA Team?"). The second one is like 5 sentences just explaining why he's the #1 pick. The Jeremy Woo article is pretty strange, it names the TO and shooting % issues very directly but it's aiming for hype so just makes bad excuses for them. No one who knows how to follow a prospect would read these and come away from any of those articles thinking this was a phenomenal generational prospect.

Is 'Fade for Cade' hypeish enough? I remember a number of those

https://sports.yahoo.com/detroit-pistons-fade-cade-cunningham-015255237.html

People do this basically every year that there are well known prospects at the top of the draft. Especially when a good rhyme is involved. Fans of bad teams want to feel excited about something lol

I remember 'Riggin's for Wiggins' leading up to 2014 draft.

Wasn't even a good rhyme haha

[SFour]

I'm not a fan of inefficient volume scoring...so Cade and Jalen Green don't get me excited. Cade's 3pt % seems to be improving so that would be a positive at least.

Pistons really needed to hit on the Wemby draft.....worst record in the league but ended up with the 5th pick.

[Yallbecrazy]

He is reminiscent of Wiggins (albeit a different style of player).
-Insane hype out of high school
-A relatively disappointing college season, but
does just enough for most to consider him the runaway #1 pick despite a bunch of red flags and others being more deserving statistically (Mobley and Sengun/ Embiid)
-Puts up some empty bulk stats as a rookie, but pretty ugly advanced stats.

[azcatz11]

Okay so he looks 'unathletic' but it's clear to me he plays at his own speed. I don't view that as a negative at all.

The lineup is trash. I've seen a few of their games this year. The fact that Bagley is getting serious minutes (not even talking about Killian) tells you everything you need to know. If there's ever a time to reserve judgment until they have some competent players this is it.

[CptCrunch]

This Cade's team is crap excuse for Cade's turnovers doesn't add up when Killian Hayes can put up 21 assists in 3 games with 0 turnovers.

[LoveMyRaps]

I still think Cade can be the best player from the class and possesses superstar potential. With that being said, he really needs to improve his shooting. He's already one of the best playmakers in the league IMO. Love watching him facilitate the offense, but boy oh boy - that shooting needs WORK!