Masai’s plan moving forward

[SocialistHipHop]

The plan moving forward involves Scottie replacing Pascal as the number one option, Gradey will replace GTJ, OG will be resigned. Schroeder as the back up point guard long term.


And then we need to find a star guard, who can shoot and is a playmaker. We also need a stretch 5 to pair with Poeltl, similar to the Gasol-Ibaka combo at Centre.

That’s a solid 7 player rotation, if we can find that star point guard as our number 2 option.

Essentially we need to copy the 2019 championship team, here's what I propose
PG Davion Mitchell very similar game to Lowry same body type, and has a dog mentality
SG Malcolm Brogdon veteran guard that can shoot and run some point
SF Scottie Barnes, he's our Kawhi
PF OG, he will replace Siakam
C Jakob Poetl and Miles Turner, Gasol and Ibaka 2.0

I'd actually like a Davion Mitchell play, and I like Brogdan for this team.

That said, when comparing to the championship team:
PG ?

SG: Danny Green ---> OG
Both optimized as 3&D guys. Obviously OG is on another level, so that's a win for the current Raps.

SF: Kawhi vs Barnes is a decent comp if Scottie keeps this shooting. It's Leonard or LeBron, those are the power 3s that can play awesome D.

PF: Siakam ---> Siakam
Come on he's not even 30, and better than he was during the championship run (this slump not withstanding).

C: ?

I don't think we have the same pieces at C, PG or on the bench. Not saying you need that to be successful, but that's where the similarities start to end IMO. Yak vs Old Gasol, I think they both good passers and good defenders, but Gasol still possessed a perimeter threat, and Yak can make a layup, so they're quite different there.

We don't have a Lowry. That would really push us into contention (if Barnes is real).

We need a star level guard, who can shoot and create. But we can build the right team, hopefully in the next 2-3 years.

[billy_hoyle]

If Barnes shooting and overall 3rd yr jump is real, Masai is going to keep doing what he's doing... build and trying to retain talent (especially shooting and defensive talent).

GTJ is a player type we would be looking for if traded away. Shooter. Young.

Pascal as complimentary #2 to a star SF that shoots threes and overpowers people (Kawhi), has actually worked in the past. Let's let Pascal adjust back to his previous role. I've seen this board write off Siakam multiple times, and then watched Siakam make an All NBA team right after. Patience.

OG can guard any position and hit 3s. What more would you want next to Barnes?

We just drafted the perceived best shooter in the lottery/draft (Dick).

We drafted a theoretical 3&D center last year (Koloko - check his combine shooting numbers).

Need to get:
- an efficient combo guard that isn't terrible on defense (Quickly?)
-a healthy 3pt shooting C (Draft? Olynyk? Koloko? Precious?)

Immanuel Quickley is exactly the type of player that would make sense for us. He’s a free agent after this year. If we wanted his bird rights, we may be able to acquire them, but IQ is a big part of the Knicks team.

Is it possible to steal him away from the Knicks for ~$25m? I think we could make that number work if we let GTJ go (or trade him for expirings and futures) and sign him before locking up OG.

[Pointgod]

Not even really trying to hot take here, but is there any evidence that Masai has a plan?

I think there's a vague idea of staying "competitive" (re: not tanking) while stockpiling assets and accumulating value (even certain trades everyone hates are usually reasonable "value"), but I don't know what the next step is.

I have a feeling the Pascal trade will be one of those weird ones where the guys involved are kind of surprising. An old school player for player swap, not one of these star for cap space and picks deals. Something like the Sabonis for Haliburton/Hield deal.

Masai is too attached to his players and would rather lose them for nothing than get some type of value. Other than prioritizing Scottie’s development, I’m not sure if there’s a plan other than not going into a rebuild.

[James_Raptors]

I have high confidence in Gradey. He has nice size, basketball IQ and a super wet shot. He seems to already be willing to do more than just shoot. Although I doubt he'll ever be someone who is "that guy" type of sniper, who can lead a team in scoring.

I'm not totally giving up on Precious, although I'm getting there. If he could ever learn the fricken game, and not just get by on physical tools, he'd be a helluva player. We've seen glimpses of incredible defense at all 5 positions (or at least 4) and decent deep shooting. He just plays too much like a knucklehead who will never reach full potential. Who knows, maybe a miracle happens and it clicks, one day.

Gary has to be either sick, confused with the new system, deliberately tanking (why? He ain't doing that in a contract year). I don't get it and right now I'm just hoping it's a bad slump. But even the "normal" GTJ is pretty one-dimensional, and is a 6th man type player, who might be able to close out games. But he needs to improve more to be given starter's minutes on an eventual contending-type team. The jury is still out, but growing impatient.

Out of those I see Gradey panning out unless something freak happens like a bad injury that shortens his career/potential. The other two I'd probably say no, or at least not good enough. It all comes down to needing at least one more guy who can shoot, minimum. I'm not even confident we don't need someone pretty close to Siakam's ilk, assuming Pascal is gone sometime within the next 300 or so days. Even Kawhi had a sidekick and if Spicey P is gone, who's our #2? OG? (loved him since before he played a game, but he's a #4, or #3, at best). Although, looking back, Pascal only averaged 16.9ppg that season, Ibaka at 15.0 and Kyle down at 14.2 but we also had a top 5 defense and offense that season.

For example, in a year or two is it possible we have Scottie in that 25-30ppg spot, OG 18-20 and maybe Gradey Dick 15+? Still really need a better #2, it really can't be OG long term if we're going to realistically contend. And part of my concern is the guy takes a beating on defense already and has limited usefulness offensively. I'd rather have a highly efficient, less tired and battered OG who defends like a God and stays on the frickin' court when it really matters. None of this "freak injury" nonsense. At some point it doesn't matter and you're a long-play-version of a defensively-minded Brandon Roy.

The difference between my views of OG and some of the others around here is that I don't think he's just some utility player, or a "3&D guy". Both terms are rather insulting to OG Anunoby. The reality is, his defensive impact is literally so impressive, it's difficult to gauge how much it helps our roster. And that's because he is so damn good at his job, he literally scares the opposing team's best players into passing rather than having OG steal their lunch money. The one thing greater than being an incredible defensive player, is taking the ball out of the best players hands, so they literally avoid scoring. So unlike a few of you here, I'd haul the Brinks trunk up to OG's door and say "You want some, come get some". Pay the damn man for being the world's best defensive player , period, bar none. Sure, he's a limited scorer, because if he wasn't we'd be talking about MVP's instead of DPOY's. Think about that the next time you chuckle at his driving prowess. OG is winning us more games than Pascal at the moment, is younger, and won't cost as much.

So if I were Masai, Scottie, OG and Gradey are the immediate core. The rest, including Pascal, Gary, Jakob, et el might not be on this roster once we're into contender's status, depending on their ability to fit into this new system, pecking order, age and contractual status. The question still becomes, who will be our legit #2, the sidekick, the guy we go for baskets when Scottie's getting double teamed? A bunch of shooters will help but we're going to need a legit secondary scorer next to Scottie who we can count on for 20-ish points per game. Maybe that guy comes from a Pascal type trade, or other means/transactions/draft.

[Dude-niagara]

It’s still early but based on the results so far the easy answer is to trade Siakam and GTJ and build the team around Scottie. We’re gonna need a starting PG, SG, and bench down the line so might as well start restocking the cupboard now. We aren’t gonna get fair value for Siakam but draft picks and depth pieces will suffice. GTJ won’t go for much but it doesn’t make sense to tie $25m+ a season into an inconsistent player who doesn’t impact winning.

Unless your a Siakam fanboy everyone knows he needs to be traded, these clowns still believe Siakam is some superstar and better then Barnes. They loved it when Barnes was only getting 10 or less shots some nights because the two ball pigs Siakam and his good buddy Fred were playing your turn my turn offence and made sure Barnes never ate. So yes, the plan should be trading Pascal this month and just move ahead with retooling around OG/Barnes.

[Duffman100]

It’s still early but based on the results so far the easy answer is to trade Siakam and GTJ and build the team around Scottie. We’re gonna need a starting PG, SG, and bench down the line so might as well start restocking the cupboard now. We aren’t gonna get fair value for Siakam but draft picks and depth pieces will suffice. GTJ won’t go for much but it doesn’t make sense to tie $25m+ a season into an inconsistent player who doesn’t impact winning.

Unless your a Siakam fanboy everyone knows he needs to be traded, these clowns still believe Siakam is some superstar and better then Barnes. They loved it when Barnes was only getting 10 or less shots some nights because the two ball pigs Siakam and his good buddy Fred were playing your turn my turn offence and made sure Barnes never ate. So yes, the plan should be trading Pascal this month and just move ahead with retooling around OG/Barnes.

Ah the Siakam 'fanboys' that post 'somewhere' on 'other' social media sites that allow you to vent about things that don't actually exist.

[Son Goku 25]

I'd honestly look to get Trae Young for Siakam and can add piece if needed. Which other guards are out there we can use or even grow into a star?

[Raptorfan2012]

I'd honestly look to get Trae Young for Siakam and can add piece if needed. Which other guards are out there we can use or even grow into a star?

Pretty sure the Hawks would rather trade Murray than Trae... I don't see the Hawks trading Trae for a while.

[AbC?]

The plan should be to pair Shai with Barnes in 2027 and have a plug and play championship supporting cast around those 2. But Masai and Bobby can’t be trusted to pull it off.

[Psubs]

I have high confidence in Gradey. He has nice size, basketball IQ and a super wet shot. He seems to already be willing to do more than just shoot. Although I doubt he'll ever be someone who is "that guy" type of sniper, who can lead a team in scoring.

I'm not totally giving up on Precious, although I'm getting there. If he could ever learn the fricken game, and not just get by on physical tools, he'd be a helluva player. We've seen glimpses of incredible defense at all 5 positions (or at least 4) and decent deep shooting. He just plays too much like a knucklehead who will never reach full potential. Who knows, maybe a miracle happens and it clicks, one day.

Gary has to be either sick, confused with the new system, deliberately tanking (why? He ain't doing that in a contract year). I don't get it and right now I'm just hoping it's a bad slump. But even the "normal" GTJ is pretty one-dimensional, and is a 6th man type player, who might be able to close out games. But he needs to improve more to be given starter's minutes on an eventual contending-type team. The jury is still out, but growing impatient.

Out of those I see Gradey panning out unless something freak happens like a bad injury that shortens his career/potential. The other two I'd probably say no, or at least not good enough. It all comes down to needing at least one more guy who can shoot, minimum. I'm not even confident we don't need someone pretty close to Siakam's ilk, assuming Pascal is gone sometime within the next 300 or so days. Even Kawhi had a sidekick and if Spicey P is gone, who's our #2? OG? (loved him since before he played a game, but he's a #4, or #3, at best). Although, looking back, Pascal only averaged 16.9ppg that season, Ibaka at 15.0 and Kyle down at 14.2 but we also had a top 5 defense and offense that season.

For example, in a year or two is it possible we have Scottie in that 25-30ppg spot, OG 18-20 and maybe Gradey Dick 15+? Still really need a better #2, it really can't be OG long term if we're going to realistically contend. And part of my concern is the guy takes a beating on defense already and has limited usefulness offensively. I'd rather have a highly efficient, less tired and battered OG who defends like a God and stays on the frickin' court when it really matters. None of this "freak injury" nonsense. At some point it doesn't matter and you're a long-play-version of a defensively-minded Brandon Roy.

The difference between my views of OG and some of the others around here is that I don't think he's just some utility player, or a "3&D guy". Both terms are rather insulting to OG Anunoby. The reality is, his defensive impact is literally so impressive, it's difficult to gauge how much it helps our roster. And that's because he is so damn good at his job, he literally scares the opposing team's best players into passing rather than having OG steal their lunch money. The one thing greater than being an incredible defensive player, is taking the ball out of the best players hands, so they literally avoid scoring. So unlike a few of you here, I'd haul the Brinks trunk up to OG's door and say "You want some, come get some". Pay the damn man for being the world's best defensive player , period, bar none. Sure, he's a limited scorer, because if he wasn't we'd be talking about MVP's instead of DPOY's. Think about that the next time you chuckle at his driving prowess. OG is winning us more games than Pascal at the moment, is younger, and won't cost as much.

So if I were Masai, Scottie, OG and Gradey are the immediate core. The rest, including Pascal, Gary, Jakob, et el might not be on this roster once we're into contender's status, depending on their ability to fit into this new system, pecking order, age and contractual status. The question still becomes, who will be our legit #2, the sidekick, the guy we go for baskets when Scottie's getting double teamed? A bunch of shooters will help but we're going to need a legit secondary scorer next to Scottie who we can count on for 20-ish points per game. Maybe that guy comes from a Pascal type trade, or other means/transactions/draft.

OG is like a physical version of Kris Middleton that can be a #2/3 on a championship team. Pascal would be a #2 but would move him positionally for a #2 at guard.

Pascal is this cohorts Demar Derozan.

[ruckus]

I'm OK with moving Siakam just because from what I've seen, his role on the team doesn't align with the money he probably is looking to make. With Scottie take on more of the offensive load, Pascal's usefulness on that end is limited.

I'd like to see Pascal lean into year 1/2/3 Siakam and be a disruptor on defense and just outrunning everyone all over the place. But even that role probably doesn't justify a $40-50+ million contract.

[ItsDanger]

Key part of the plan is what he does with Siakam. Extend or trade?

The top 15 and superstar talk on this board as little as ONE YEAR ago has disappeared. Shall we bring up some bad takes from those threads? Couldn't even admit the guy was playing selfishly chasing stats.

[Psubs]

I'd honestly look to get Trae Young for Siakam and can add piece if needed. Which other guards are out there we can use or even grow into a star?

Pretty sure the Hawks would rather trade Murray than Trae... I don't see the Hawks trading Trae for a while.

Atlanta gets: Pascal, Flynn and Jericho Sims

Toronto gets: Dejounte Murray and Evan Fournier

NY gets: Capela and cash

Maybe NY trades Randle, Capela, Grimes and 4 1st picks to Philly for Embiid?

[YogurtProducer]

Masai cant execute anything because he let DeMar shame him into being a pacifist towards aging stars instead of doing whats best for the team.

Except Masai was like this long before the Demar trade.

I disagree completely. He maximized on Carmelo and Rudy Gay, he had great timing before the aftermath of the Kawhi trade.

Losing a first time all star in FVV with no compensation is bad asset management.

The Carmelo/Gay/Demar situation compared to FVV are WILDY different. Carmelo asked out. Gay was a cancer on a 6-12 team. Demar had 5 years of playoff failures (and not just kind of failures, absolute no show embarrassing failures).

The "peak" to trade FVV was likely in 2021-22 during Jan/Feb when he was performing at his absolute peak, but it also would be weird to trade a guy who was actually playing very well at the time in the middle of a season where the team was performing well and above expectations. Then he got hurt and he has obviously never recovered from that.

And then in 2022-23, the best offers (rumored) were pretty underwhelming and by that time it was 100% the right move to just let him expire and not take on bad contracts and instead use your cap on a guy like Schroder, who by all accounts has been performing well and is better than anything that was even rumored to be offered for FVV.

[Spida888]

I agree with OP that it would be the ideal plan to trade Pascal, maybe Trent, and re-sign OG.

The backup plan is probably to extend Pascal if there are no enticing trade offers - kicking the can down the road again. My concern with that is Pascal does NOT look like a max player in the new system. Maybe a little more time is required for adjustments and for players to get used to the new system, not sure. Credit to Pascal, he does look like he's mostly adhering to what the new system asks of him, but he just hasn't looked good.

If we decide to trade him, we cannot wait until the trade deadline because other teams will lowball us knowing that our options are limited after the trade deadline. We either extend him, which he may not accept, or he goes to FA and we can lose him for nothing. So, Masai has to act on this now, and trade him by January or just extend him. Letting him go to FA would be nuts.

[Tacoma]

Not even really trying to hot take here, but is there any evidence that Masai has a plan?

I think there's a vague idea of staying "competitive" (re: not tanking) while stockpiling assets and accumulating value (even certain trades everyone hates are usually reasonable "value"), but I don't know what the next step is.

I have a feeling the Pascal trade will be one of those weird ones where the guys involved are kind of surprising. An old school player for player swap, not one of these star for cap space and picks deals. Something like the Sabonis for Haliburton/Hield deal.

The same plan he has had for a decade.

1) Bring in defense first players. Majority of draft picks we have ever made were guys who were defense first or projects who projected as best case defensively sound players and try to develop their offense. (Bruno, Delon, Poeltl, Siakam, OG, Flynn (outlier), Barnes, Dick, Koloko, Powell, Banton, etc. --- ALL were defensive players when drafted). Arguably our 2 best pieces right now (Barnes and OG) were two guys who projected as high level defenders who some offensive question marks.

2) Retain players. Outside of when deals absolutely need to be made (Gay, Powell, Demar, etc.), Masai has always been a patient guy who does not make knee jerk moves and prefers to build within. We might be approaching a necessary move with Siakam just to re-stock our depth shelves and/or due to salary constraints.

So there is a plan, it just is not the plan a lot of people on this board agree with despite a decades worth of results to suggest maybe the guy is on to something.

Defense first and retaining players are success factors or essential components to achieving a strategy, not a plan. A plan describes the details of who, how, when, how to achieve the strategy.

I've said before: Masai is a tactician, not a planner. Getting Kawhi was a tactical move that couldn't have been planned for because he could not have foreseen Kawhi would demand a trade to LA and Pops would trade him to Toronto. But once Kawhi landed, Masai evaluated & made good tactical moves (e.g., trading for Gasol) that put us over the hump.

So to answer CPT's question, there is no evidence Masai has a plan, a true plan, not features of one. Instead, he sits there patiently waiting & evaluating and making tactical moves to improve assets, ready to pounce at any grand opportunity that arises. That's what he did when he rolled the dice for Giannis, Durant and Dame as well, but failed as most teams do in rolling the dice.

That being said, one can argue that not having a real plan but rather to sit/wait until a disgruntled superstar demands a trade, is the plan. If so, then I'd counter that basing a plan on achieving an unlikely event, is not a real plan.

[YogurtProducer]

Not even really trying to hot take here, but is there any evidence that Masai has a plan?

I think there's a vague idea of staying "competitive" (re: not tanking) while stockpiling assets and accumulating value (even certain trades everyone hates are usually reasonable "value"), but I don't know what the next step is.

I have a feeling the Pascal trade will be one of those weird ones where the guys involved are kind of surprising. An old school player for player swap, not one of these star for cap space and picks deals. Something like the Sabonis for Haliburton/Hield deal.

The same plan he has had for a decade.

1) Bring in defense first players. Majority of draft picks we have ever made were guys who were defense first or projects who projected as best case defensively sound players and try to develop their offense. (Bruno, Delon, Poeltl, Siakam, OG, Flynn (outlier), Barnes, Dick, Koloko, Powell, Banton, etc. --- ALL were defensive players when drafted). Arguably our 2 best pieces right now (Barnes and OG) were two guys who projected as high level defenders who some offensive question marks.

2) Retain players. Outside of when deals absolutely need to be made (Gay, Powell, Demar, etc.), Masai has always been a patient guy who does not make knee jerk moves and prefers to build within. We might be approaching a necessary move with Siakam just to re-stock our depth shelves and/or due to salary constraints.

So there is a plan, it just is not the plan a lot of people on this board agree with despite a decades worth of results to suggest maybe the guy is on to something.

Defense first and retaining players are success factors or essential components to achieving a strategy, not a plan. A plan describes the details of who, how, when, how to achieve the strategy.

I've said before: Masai is a tactician, not a planner. Getting Kawhi was a tactical move that couldn't have been planned for because he could not have foreseen Kawhi would demand a trade to LA and Pops would trade him to Toronto. But once Kawhi landed, Masai evaluated & made a serious of very good tactical moves (e.g., trading for Gasol) that put us over the hump.

So to answer CPT's question, there is no evidence Masai has a plan, a true plan, not features of one. Instead, he sits there patiently waiting & evaluating and making tactical moves to improve assets, ready to pounce at any grand opportunity that arises. That's what he did when he rolled the dice for Giannis, Durant and Dame as well, but failed as most teams do in rolling the dice.

That being said, one can argue that not having a real plan but rather to sit/wait until a disgruntled superstar demands a trade, is the plan. If so, then I'd counter that basing a plan on achieving an unlikely event, is not a real plan.

... a strategy and a plan are for all intensive purposes, the exact same.

[Fairview4Life]

Maintaining flexibility.

[OakleyDokely]

My gut says they re-sign OG and trade Siakam.

I think they'd like to re-sign GTJ because theoretically he's what they need as a bench shooter who could also start depending on your lineup, but he's playing himself out of a spot so far.

[Mack11]

Probably waiting for the offseason where there are 29 other losers