Masai’s plan moving forward

[TheGeneral99]

The fact that it's not realistic just goes to show how poorly planned out this path was then. There is literally a zero percent chance that Covid and a top 4 pick was in the plans, if not for that pick, we'd still be middling AF with no real future.

The Scottie pick bailed them out, and hard.

Or maybe that team (that won 60-ish games the year prior) was not actually a 27-win team and we still make the playoffs the year after with a Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam led team. Baynes was bad, but he was not 32 wins worse than Gasol bad.

He did not say the plan was not realistic, he is saying that sometimes things do not work out. You can have perfect "process" and not see the best results. That is just the reality of how the NBA works.

Three GMs could all follow the exact same plan/strategy, and have 3 wildly different outcomes.

It also was absolutely not a 60 win team either. I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. The suggestion made was that had we had our low firsts high seconds pan out to be productive players, we'd be ECF bound. Take a look at our current team, and tell me the only reason we aren't is because we didn't get wildly lucky on low value picks.

No the team wasn't a 27 win team, but without Scottie the next year, we likely wouldn't even have been .500, Scottie that year contributed 6.6 WS, round it up to 7 cause partial games don't exist, and tada, 41-41.

Be realistic man.

Wait so the team on pace to win 60 games in 2019-2020 was "absolutely not a 60 win team"? They were within 1 minute from reaching the ECF despite Siakam being out of shape and Gasol being a shell off himself compared to before the bubble.

And yes, I agree with you the team in 2022 wouldn't have been good without Scottie, but part of the reason for that was because Lowry was so damn good until from 2014-2020 and started to decline in 2021.

[aj174]

The question I have is, what can Pascal fetch us?! Masai needs to silently shop him now and not wait to do that just before the trade deadline! That didn’t work last year and it could very well not work this year.

Just some ideas, Pascal for Sengun and pieces? Markkanen? Herro and pieces? A deal needs to be made soon!!

It would be hilarious if HOU accepted a trade of Sengun for Siakam and ended up with FVV and Siakam, the play in duo

[VanWest82]

I'm just going to keep saying this until someone either explains why it isn't the case or people stop bringing it up but...

How is it realistic we're going to get real offers for Pascal after what Sixers did bringing in a bunch of expirings? Nurse and Rico Hines are there, and Pascal and Embiid are friends. Pascal is the best realistic FA this summer. What team is going to look at that and believe they can keep him, and if they don't think they can keep him why is Pascal anything more than a rental?

The only other team I see with a realistic shot at keeping Siakam is us.

[djsunyc]

I'm just going to keep saying this until someone either explains why it isn't the case or people stop bringing it up but...

How is it realistic we're going to get real offers for Pascal after what Sixers did bringing in a bunch of expirings? Nurse and Rico Hines are there, and Pascal and Embiid are friends. Pascal is the best realistic FA this summer. What team is going to look at that and believe they can keep him, and if they don't think they can keep him why is Pascal anything more than a rental?

The only other team I see with a realistic shot at keeping Siakam is us.

if they think pascal is the type to sign for the most dollars out there, then only the team that has him on the roster by the end of this season can offer it to him. most players re-sign for the max instead of signing elsewhere so it's a good enough gamble.

[mademan]

I'm just going to keep saying this until someone either explains why it isn't the case or people stop bringing it up but...

How is it realistic we're going to get real offers for Pascal after what Sixers did bringing in a bunch of expirings? Nurse and Rico Hines are there, and Pascal and Embiid are friends. Pascal is the best realistic FA this summer. What team is going to look at that and believe they can keep him, and if they don't think they can keep him why is Pascal anything more than a rental?

The only other team I see with a realistic shot at keeping Siakam is us.

if they think pascal is the type to sign for the most dollars out there, then only the team that has him on the roster by the end of this season can offer it to him. most players re-sign for the max instead of signing elsewhere so it's a good enough gamble.

How many teams realistically think Pascal is a 50mill/year player? Being able to pay him the most money isnt as great as it sounds and is one of the reasons I would hope he's traded.

[VanWest82]

I'm just going to keep saying this until someone either explains why it isn't the case or people stop bringing it up but...

How is it realistic we're going to get real offers for Pascal after what Sixers did bringing in a bunch of expirings? Nurse and Rico Hines are there, and Pascal and Embiid are friends. Pascal is the best realistic FA this summer. What team is going to look at that and believe they can keep him, and if they don't think they can keep him why is Pascal anything more than a rental?

The only other team I see with a realistic shot at keeping Siakam is us.

if they think pascal is the type to sign for the most dollars out there, then only the team that has him on the roster by the end of this season can offer it to him. most players re-sign for the max instead of signing elsewhere so it's a good enough gamble.

Sixers have max cap space

[djsunyc]

I'm just going to keep saying this until someone either explains why it isn't the case or people stop bringing it up but...

How is it realistic we're going to get real offers for Pascal after what Sixers did bringing in a bunch of expirings? Nurse and Rico Hines are there, and Pascal and Embiid are friends. Pascal is the best realistic FA this summer. What team is going to look at that and believe they can keep him, and if they don't think they can keep him why is Pascal anything more than a rental?

The only other team I see with a realistic shot at keeping Siakam is us.

if they think pascal is the type to sign for the most dollars out there, then only the team that has him on the roster by the end of this season can offer it to him. most players re-sign for the max instead of signing elsewhere so it's a good enough gamble.

Sixers have max cap space

but can't offer him max raises. the contract he can sign with the team that has his bird's rights is >>> than signing with any other team.

[VanWest82]

if they think pascal is the type to sign for the most dollars out there, then only the team that has him on the roster by the end of this season can offer it to him. most players re-sign for the max instead of signing elsewhere so it's a good enough gamble.

Sixers have max cap space

but can't offer him max raises. the contract he can sign with the team that has his bird's rights is >>> than signing with any other team.

Isn't it just the difference between 5% and 8% raises (not compounded), or did they change it so that any team that trades for him can offer 5th year?

[djsunyc]

Sixers have max cap space

but can't offer him max raises. the contract he can sign with the team that has his bird's rights is >>> than signing with any other team.

Isn't it just the difference between 5% and 8% raises (not compounded), or did they change it so that any team that trades for him can offer 5th year?

i'm not sure what the exact #'s are but your %'s sound correct - probably comes out to about $25 or so million during the duration of the contract. my understanding is that only we can offer a 5th year since he's our own player. but my point stands, if a team thinks pascal wants to maximize his dollar contract, then only his bird's rights team can do it so that's why they would trade for him. otherwise your point stands, they may not give up their best offers.

[OAKLEY_2]

Siakam makes sense for Orlando. Tons of space to sign him with bird rights. Orlando has bodies, picks to send back and the climate warmth to extend Siakams career for his final payday.

[Raptors_128]

I want the Raps to re-sign Siakam if they aren’t getting decent offers for him but with the way Siakam has been playing in this role, is he even worth the max?

[Scase]

Or maybe that team (that won 60-ish games the year prior) was not actually a 27-win team and we still make the playoffs the year after with a Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam led team. Baynes was bad, but he was not 32 wins worse than Gasol bad.

He did not say the plan was not realistic, he is saying that sometimes things do not work out. You can have perfect "process" and not see the best results. That is just the reality of how the NBA works.

Three GMs could all follow the exact same plan/strategy, and have 3 wildly different outcomes.

It also was absolutely not a 60 win team either. I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. The suggestion made was that had we had our low firsts high seconds pan out to be productive players, we'd be ECF bound. Take a look at our current team, and tell me the only reason we aren't is because we didn't get wildly lucky on low value picks.

No the team wasn't a 27 win team, but without Scottie the next year, we likely wouldn't even have been .500, Scottie that year contributed 6.6 WS, round it up to 7 cause partial games don't exist, and tada, 41-41.

Be realistic man.

Wait so the team on pace to win 60 games in 2019-2020 was "absolutely not a 60 win team"? They were within 1 minute from reaching the ECF despite Siakam being out of shape and Gasol being a shell off himself compared to before the bubble.

And yes, I agree with you the team in 2022 wouldn't have been good without Scottie, but part of the reason for that was because Lowry was so damn good until from 2014-2020 and started to decline in 2021.

I was referring to the 27 win team, as in regardless of covid etc, they werent getting close to that win tally.

[Pericles]

The plan moving forward involves Scottie replacing Pascal as the number one option, Gradey will replace GTJ, OG will be resigned. Schroeder as the back up point guard long term.


And then we need to find a star guard, who can shoot and is a playmaker. We also need a stretch 5 to pair with Poeltl, similar to the Gasol-Ibaka combo at Centre.

That’s a solid 7 player rotation, if we can find that star point guard as our number 2 option.

Been a member of the board many years. Never has someone summarized my own thoughts on a matter so exactly.

I wonder whom that young star guard is? And exactly what type of guard will play best with Scottie. I think Jaden Ivey is an exciting young guard, Jalen Suggs is still interesting, Jaden Hardy still has such potential. I am also intrigued by Tyler Herro. I essentially think we need to trade Siakam and Trent and acquire our lead guard of the future. Herro is in play I believe, but part of me sees a superstar in young Jaden Hardy.

[ForeverTFC]

I'm just going to keep saying this until someone either explains why it isn't the case or people stop bringing it up but...

How is it realistic we're going to get real offers for Pascal after what Sixers did bringing in a bunch of expirings? Nurse and Rico Hines are there, and Pascal and Embiid are friends. Pascal is the best realistic FA this summer. What team is going to look at that and believe they can keep him, and if they don't think they can keep him why is Pascal anything more than a rental?

The only other team I see with a realistic shot at keeping Siakam is us.

Morey has been touting the cap space narrative, but realistically, it's their last option. To open up the numbers you're seeing, they would have to denounce everyone but Maxey and go into FA with only Embiid, Springer, and Reid under contract. They would then need to round out an entire roster around Maxey and Embiid with cap space and the room MLE which is lower than the tax MLE.

Let's assume they don't waive Reid and keep Maxey's cap hold while denouncing everyone else. That leaves them with $76m in salaries and cap holds which gives them ~$65m in cap space + ~$5-6m in room MLE. If they max Pascal into that at ~$40m, they'll have $25m + room MLE to sign at least 4-5 more players to surround Embiid/Maxey/Pascal. It becomes a really tough team building exercise given the MLE is >$12m now days. Could they do it? Yeah, if they strike out at the deadline. Is it in Pascal's best interest to put all his eggs in that basket? Not really. If a team came and promised the extension today, he has to think really hard about it.

They will likely try and turn their expiring contracts and picks into a player by the deadline, so that they can bring back some of their own FAs and operate over the cap, which then gives them access to the MLE as well as the BAE. It's a much easier path.

[TheGeneral99]

It also was absolutely not a 60 win team either. I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. The suggestion made was that had we had our low firsts high seconds pan out to be productive players, we'd be ECF bound. Take a look at our current team, and tell me the only reason we aren't is because we didn't get wildly lucky on low value picks.

No the team wasn't a 27 win team, but without Scottie the next year, we likely wouldn't even have been .500, Scottie that year contributed 6.6 WS, round it up to 7 cause partial games don't exist, and tada, 41-41.

Be realistic man.

Wait so the team on pace to win 60 games in 2019-2020 was "absolutely not a 60 win team"? They were within 1 minute from reaching the ECF despite Siakam being out of shape and Gasol being a shell off himself compared to before the bubble.

And yes, I agree with you the team in 2022 wouldn't have been good without Scottie, but part of the reason for that was because Lowry was so damn good until from 2014-2020 and started to decline in 2021.

I was referring to the 27 win team, as in regardless of covid etc, they werent getting close to that win tally.

I agree, and that's mainly due to Lowry's noticeable decline, and the absence of a solid center to fill the void of JV/Ibaka/Gasol like we had in years past.

[Tortiglioni]

I can only assume the plan is to trade more first-round picks in an attempt to make the play-in.

[VanWest82]

but can't offer him max raises. the contract he can sign with the team that has his bird's rights is >>> than signing with any other team.

Isn't it just the difference between 5% and 8% raises (not compounded), or did they change it so that any team that trades for him can offer 5th year?

i'm not sure what the exact #'s are but your %'s sound correct - probably comes out to about $25 or so million during the duration of the contract. my understanding is that only we can offer a 5th year since he's our own player. but my point stands, if a team thinks pascal wants to maximize his dollar contract, then only his bird's rights team can do it so that's why they would trade for him. otherwise your point stands, they may not give up their best offers.

~136M cap x 30% max = ~40M

40M x 5% = 2M
40M x 8% = 3.2M

1.2M difference x 4 years = 4.8M

It's not that big of a difference

[Scase]

Isn't it just the difference between 5% and 8% raises (not compounded), or did they change it so that any team that trades for him can offer 5th year?

i'm not sure what the exact #'s are but your %'s sound correct - probably comes out to about $25 or so million during the duration of the contract. my understanding is that only we can offer a 5th year since he's our own player. but my point stands, if a team thinks pascal wants to maximize his dollar contract, then only his bird's rights team can do it so that's why they would trade for him. otherwise your point stands, they may not give up their best offers.

~136M cap x 30% max = ~40M

40M x 5% = 2M
40M x 8% = 3.2M

1.2M difference x 4 years = 4.8M

It's not that big of a difference

I think the increases are secondary to an entire extra year of guaranteed money at like 40mil. We hold his bird rights, so if he wants that 5th year, it's a S&T, or a trade in general.

[VanWest82]

I'm just going to keep saying this until someone either explains why it isn't the case or people stop bringing it up but...

How is it realistic we're going to get real offers for Pascal after what Sixers did bringing in a bunch of expirings? Nurse and Rico Hines are there, and Pascal and Embiid are friends. Pascal is the best realistic FA this summer. What team is going to look at that and believe they can keep him, and if they don't think they can keep him why is Pascal anything more than a rental?

The only other team I see with a realistic shot at keeping Siakam is us.

Morey has been touting the cap space narrative, but realistically, it's their last option. To open up the numbers you're seeing, they would have to denounce everyone but Maxey and go into FA with only Embiid, Springer, and Reid under contract. They would then need to round out an entire roster around Maxey and Embiid with cap space and the room MLE which is lower than the tax MLE.

Let's assume they don't waive Reid and keep Maxey's cap hold while denouncing everyone else. That leaves them with $76m in salaries and cap holds which gives them ~$65m in cap space + ~$5-6m in room MLE. If they max Pascal into that at ~$40m, they'll have $25m + room MLE to sign at least 4-5 more players to surround Embiid/Maxey/Pascal. It becomes a really tough team building exercise given the MLE is >$12m now days. Could they do it? Yeah, if they strike out at the deadline. Is it in Pascal's best interest to put all his eggs in that basket? Not really. If a team came and promised the extension today, he has to think really hard about it.

They will likely try and turn their expiring contracts and picks into a player by the deadline, so that they can bring back some of their own FAs and operate over the cap, which then gives them access to the MLE as well as the BAE. It's a much easier path.

It'd depend on who's available and at what cost. Are they getting something better than Pascal for expirings and a couple picks? Maybe they offer that to us to mitigate the risk of Pascal re-signing.

I'd be very tempted to wait and go the FA route if I'm them. They can build a decent roster with 65M in cap space.

[VanWest82]

i'm not sure what the exact #'s are but your %'s sound correct - probably comes out to about $25 or so million during the duration of the contract. my understanding is that only we can offer a 5th year since he's our own player. but my point stands, if a team thinks pascal wants to maximize his dollar contract, then only his bird's rights team can do it so that's why they would trade for him. otherwise your point stands, they may not give up their best offers.

~136M cap x 30% max = ~40M

40M x 5% = 2M
40M x 8% = 3.2M

1.2M difference x 4 years = 4.8M

It's not that big of a difference

I think the increases are secondary to an entire extra year of guaranteed money at like 40mil. We hold his bird rights, so if he wants that 5th year, it's a S&T, or a trade in general.

So teams can offer the fifth year now even though it's not the team that drafted you? Did this change in the new CBA?