Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[TheAlchemist23]

Best & Worst Isolation Players so far Based on PPP on Isolations including Passes (Minimum 15 possessions)

1. Tyrese Haliburton (1.556)
2. De’Aaron Fox
3. Pascal Siakam
4. Paul George
5. Jayson Tatum
6. Joel Embiid
7. Nikola Jokic
8. Russell Westbrook
——————————
43. Anthony Edwards
44. Shaedon Sharpe
45. Scottie Barnes
46. Chris Paul (0.444)

fascinating lol

Your source? Siakam isn't on the NBA stats list. This list looks incorrect as Scottie's is no where close to 2nd from the bottom.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?dir=D&sort=PPP

Btw Scottie is 5/8 on those isolation plays, but he has a 0.77 PPP because he had 5 turnovers on a total of 13 isolation possessions.

[TheAlchemist23]

Loved how last game we saw him running pick and roll with Jakob, and drawing free-throws on the drive. Hope to see more of that. Get the FTA/game up to 6-7 and usage up to 30%.

[HumbleRen]

Best & Worst Isolation Players so far Based on PPP on Isolations including Passes (Minimum 15 possessions)

1. Tyrese Haliburton (1.556)
2. De’Aaron Fox
3. Pascal Siakam
4. Paul George
5. Jayson Tatum
6. Joel Embiid
7. Nikola Jokic
8. Russell Westbrook
——————————
43. Anthony Edwards
44. Shaedon Sharpe
45. Scottie Barnes
46. Chris Paul (0.444)

fascinating lol

Your source? Siakam isn't on the NBA stats list. This list looks incorrect as Scottie's is no where close to 2nd from the bottom.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?dir=D&sort=PPP

Btw Scottie is 5/8 on those isolation plays, but he has a 0.77 PPP because he had 5 turnovers on a total of 13 isolation possessions.

Synergy, Siakam’s attempts are below 10 so it doesn’t register on nba.com

[HiJiNX]

Loved how last game we saw him running pick and roll with Jakob, and drawing free-throws on the drive. Hope to see more of that. Get the FTA/game up to 6-7 and usage up to 30%.

The team overall is running way more pnr and I love it. Really opens up our offence.

[Scase]

13 according to nba.com but they do not include passes I think?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?PerMode=Totals

Raptors in 2022-23 for reference
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*TOR&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&SeasonYear=2022-23

Man that is a comically small sample size haha. Am I crazy though, the link shows him only having 8FGA?

8FGA + 5 TOs = 13 possessions

Ah that makes sense, still a super small sample size though.

[KINGTHANOS]

Luka
Wemby
Ant
Scottie
Chet


Is my list

Same, exact order.

Luka is Luka, Wemby is Wemby, Ant is a 2-way star and Chet hasn't proved to be Wemby level but is the best of the rest outside of Scottie.

[Madvillainy2004]

Listen, I know he’s had an incredible start but let’s just chill a bit. He’s inevitably gonna slump for a few games and I don’t want us to jump on him cuz this stretch has set our expectations too high. These games are an extended flash of what he will likely do every night in the future, but that’s still a year or two away most likely. Let’s enjoy the moment, but also remember that this is only year 3.

I think he'll need to get to the line more to offset his inevitable shooting regression to give himself a buffer for his overall efficiency.

Like last game? Where he got to the like 11 times and still shot 50% from 3pters?

Generally Scottie doesn't get to the line as much as you'd want. It's a nitpick but nonetheless his rise in efficiency has been tied quite a bit to his 3 point shooting. When/if his 3 point shooting cools off to like 35-38% getting to the line more can help keep his efficiency close to where it is now. And if the shooting sticks it'll push his scoring ceiling even higher than he's shown.

[HumbleRen]

Scottie drives per game was at 6.6 per game last year.

He’s currently at 9.1, small sample size but that’s really good to see. Really hope he’s able to get to 10 +.

[polo007]

Read on Twitter

[TorontoBarneys]

Really need Siakam to start gelling with the new system so we can see what the current roster is really made of. I don't expect much from the bench regardless and that will be something more on Masai's end to handle, but Siakam and Trent need to show more. Trent in particular has been hot garbage.

[Tha Cynic]

If Scottie is actually a 40+% 3 point shooter on 5+ attempts per game he's probably making at least 3rd team all nba with a good chance at 2nd team.

I doubt he will this year, but I can see him being consistently close to that in future years as he becomes more and more comfortable with that form.

I can't see this efficiency sticking overall, but I hope his free throw attempts go up and his accuracy inside increases to cover the difference.

Unless someone has grown up as a pure shooter prospect, it's hard for any player to go from a non shooter to averaging 40% from 3 as a high volume first option player while in the NBA. Barnes will almost certainly trend closer to LeBron as a 3 point shooter as an ideal than KD or Curry, who were pure shooters their entire bball careers.

It's likely Barnes will have a career high in 3pt attempts and percentage this year going by how things are going. The interest will be seeing where he eventually falls along the 30%-39% range. I think 35% at 5 or 6 attempts per game a season is absolutely attainable for him, and that's exactly what you want to see which will separate him from Giannis on that front at the very least.

In general, I agree with this sentiment, but based on the small sample size this year, Barnes' shot just looks different. This isn't what we have seen at any point in his life from mechanics, to consistent release, to the confidence in the shot, to how smooth the process from form, the ball leaving his hands to the ball getting into the net is.

Ultimately I do think he's not a 40% 3 point shooters and this will be even more difficult as he will take some "Star" type shots from time to time from 3 like the stepback 3. I can just see a season or two where he shoots close to 40% than 35% if the mechanics stay where they are in future years.

[Madhouse]

Listen, I know he’s had an incredible start but let’s just chill a bit. He’s inevitably gonna slump for a few games and I don’t want us to jump on him cuz this stretch has set our expectations too high. These games are an extended flash of what he will likely do every night in the future, but that’s still a year or two away most likely. Let’s enjoy the moment, but also remember that this is only year 3.

I think he'll need to get to the line more to offset his inevitable shooting regression to give himself a buffer for his overall efficiency.

that plus finish in the paint better and shoot the corner 3 better.

[Chandan]

Read on Twitter

JJ a smart mofo

There u have it. OG is worth more than Siakam.

[tdotrep2]

Read on Twitter

I love articles like this, people are shocked scottie is thriving with a bigger role... yet these are the same people who wanted to keep he who shall not be named and were happy letting scottie sit in the corner and us running it back with the same roster. Now all of a sudden we should build around him...

[Tha Cynic]

Read on Twitter

I love articles like this, people are shocked scottie is thriving with a bigger role... yet these are the same people who wanted to keep he who shall not be named and were happy letting scottie sit in the corner and us running it back with the same roster. Now all of a sudden we should build around him...

You increase a player's usage and that alone will increase their numbers. You do that with a smart player and they will figure out other things in their game like efficiency and overall impact on the court.

A lot of the comments were also coming from media people who used to defend a certain PG needing more reps lol. It really hurts the brain listening to some of them, and even worse when they then come on RealGM and try to defend their hypocritical stance.

[billy_hoyle]

Read on Twitter

I love articles like this, people are shocked scottie is thriving with a bigger role... yet these are the same people who wanted to keep he who shall not be named and were happy letting scottie sit in the corner and us running it back with the same roster. Now all of a sudden we should build around him...

You increase a player's usage and that alone will increase their numbers. You do that with a smart player and they will figure out other things in their game like efficiency and overall impact on the court.

A lot of the comments were also coming from media people who used to defend a certain PG needing more reps lol. It really hurts the brain listening to some of them, and even worse when they then come on RealGM and try to defend their hypocritical stance.

Why is this hypocritical?

We've certainly seen times in the league before where a young player can assume more responsibility in an offense without jettisoning the established player.

I think it even more defensible to hold that opinion for the Raps, because it's based on evidence that it could work.

1. Kawhi didn't need to jettison TP, Duncan and Manu to become the alpha of that later Spurs championship team.

2. Similarly, hiring a new coach, establishing a new offensive scheme, and putting FVV in a role where he was an off ball gunner, that saved his energy for pesky defense, like how he was used during OUR championship run is an entirely logically self consistent position to hold.

The question of 'is that role worth max money?' was answered in the negative by Masai.

[Tha Cynic]

I love articles like this, people are shocked scottie is thriving with a bigger role... yet these are the same people who wanted to keep he who shall not be named and were happy letting scottie sit in the corner and us running it back with the same roster. Now all of a sudden we should build around him...

You increase a player's usage and that alone will increase their numbers. You do that with a smart player and they will figure out other things in their game like efficiency and overall impact on the court.

A lot of the comments were also coming from media people who used to defend a certain PG needing more reps lol. It really hurts the brain listening to some of them, and even worse when they then come on RealGM and try to defend their hypocritical stance.

Why is this hypocritical?

We've certainly seen times in the league before where a young player can assume more responsibility in an offense without jettisoning the established player.

I think it even more defensible to hold that opinion for the Raps, because it's based on evidence that it could work.

1. Kawhi didn't need to jettison TP, Duncan and Manu to become the alpha of that later Spurs championship team.

2. Similarly, hiring a new coach, establishing a new offensive scheme, and putting FVV in a role where he was an off ball gunner, that saved his energy for pesky defense, like how he was used during OUR championship run is an entirely logically self consistent position to hold.

The question of 'is that role worth max money?' was answered in the negative by Masai.

This is more to argue that giving a player more reps can have benefits, not that it needs to jettison anyone. This was an argument used all the time to explain FVV's struggles in the past for example. He's playing more offball, and that's not his game, etc. That logic that is used for one player is then used against another player. That's what is hypocrisy.

[billy_hoyle]

You increase a player's usage and that alone will increase their numbers. You do that with a smart player and they will figure out other things in their game like efficiency and overall impact on the court.

A lot of the comments were also coming from media people who used to defend a certain PG needing more reps lol. It really hurts the brain listening to some of them, and even worse when they then come on RealGM and try to defend their hypocritical stance.

Why is this hypocritical?

We've certainly seen times in the league before where a young player can assume more responsibility in an offense without jettisoning the established player.

I think it even more defensible to hold that opinion for the Raps, because it's based on evidence that it could work.

1. Kawhi didn't need to jettison TP, Duncan and Manu to become the alpha of that later Spurs championship team.

2. Similarly, hiring a new coach, establishing a new offensive scheme, and putting FVV in a role where he was an off ball gunner, that saved his energy for pesky defense, like how he was used during OUR championship run is an entirely logically self consistent position to hold.

The question of 'is that role worth max money?' was answered in the negative by Masai.

This is more to argue that giving a player more reps can have benefits, not that it needs to jettison anyone. This was an argument used all the time to explain FVV's struggles in the past for example. He's playing more offball, and that's not his game, etc. That logic that is used for one player is then used against another player. That's what is hypocrisy.

I agree that could potentially be hypocritical, or at the very least, a position that wasn't very self consistent. I'm still not sure what argument we are actually talking about here.

Are you saying there were posters claiming FVV was playing poorly last year because he was more off ball? And that Barnes playing better this year is because he is more on ball?

I think those types of generalizations are only true depending on a players strengths and weaknesses. Like FVV is theoretically a good spot up shooter (he wasn't last year). So, I don't think taking the ball out of his hands should negatively impact his game (as a theoretical good shooter). That's just a bad take.

However, Barnes as a poor shooter would likely be negatively impacted from being parked in the corner off/playing off ball. Because your obviously forcing him to contribute doing things he's not particularly good at.

All that to say, I'm glad I didn't read the threads stating FVV was doing poorly b/c he's playing off ball.

[tdotrep2]

I love articles like this, people are shocked scottie is thriving with a bigger role... yet these are the same people who wanted to keep he who shall not be named and were happy letting scottie sit in the corner and us running it back with the same roster. Now all of a sudden we should build around him...

You increase a player's usage and that alone will increase their numbers. You do that with a smart player and they will figure out other things in their game like efficiency and overall impact on the court.

A lot of the comments were also coming from media people who used to defend a certain PG needing more reps lol. It really hurts the brain listening to some of them, and even worse when they then come on RealGM and try to defend their hypocritical stance.

Why is this hypocritical?

We've certainly seen times in the league before where a young player can assume more responsibility in an offense without jettisoning the established player.

I think it even more defensible to hold that opinion for the Raps, because it's based on evidence that it could work.

1. Kawhi didn't need to jettison TP, Duncan and Manu to become the alpha of that later Spurs championship team.

2. Similarly, hiring a new coach, establishing a new offensive scheme, and putting FVV in a role where he was an off ball gunner, that saved his energy for pesky defense, like how he was used during OUR championship run is an entirely logically self consistent position to hold.

The question of 'is that role worth max money?' was answered in the negative by Masai.

The difference between the Kawhi situation and ours was.., they wanted Kawhi to become the man, here... we told fred to play off the ball. That **** lasted 4 games and it was back to the same old. New coach or not, a lot of Scottie getting shine is Dennis not trying to be the man, he lets Scottie do his thing. If Fred was here Fred would have the ball like Dennis does now, but the end result would be him taking 10 threes a game.

[Jcity08]

Seeing the Will Lou interview with Schroeder, recalling that Coach Darko drew up a play for Scottie to score in the paint against the Spurs and Scotties just like "Why not just do a step back 3" and then the next play does just that to tie the game, might be the funniest thing I've heard.

The dude is him.