Chanel Bomber wrote:cgf wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:Turner was really talented as well.
Cade has a stronger ability to shot create and their profiles are slightly different but the main difference is opportunity.
The Sixers were trying to compete and win games during Turner's rookie season (they won 41 games and made the playoffs). They simply didn't give Turner the usage that Cade has been given. Detroit made Cade the focal point, which has enabled him to have these odd performances where everything clicks and he looks like a rising star on a night. But most NBA players can do that if given the green light for an extended period. What separates them is consistency.
I guess we will see. I just hope Detroit aren't wasting their time here. My suspicion is that Detroit won't win much with him as a featured guy, and then getting him to accept a lesser role will prove difficult (after putting him on a franchise pedestal), so he will eventually get traded and find his niche in a lesser role for a different team. Could be completely wrong though, but it has happened with a lot of guys.
I have a lot of respect for you CB even when we disagree, but I think you use early-career efficiency too much to define kids' potential. I'm not saying that we should just ignore efficiency until players reach a certain age or games-played threshold, just that young players can be inefficient for a whole host of reasons and not all of them suggest limited futures.
Sometimes inefficiency can reveal limitations in skill, athleticism, BBIQ, but some times they tell us more about the situation a player is put into and how much polish they need...especially with guys whose tools aren't insane, so they need to learn what they can and can't pull off at this level, as well as polishing their skills to expand their bag.
And with Cade we're looking at both potential redflags about his athleticism / foul-baiting that could suggest limitations as a primary creative force, and the understandable explanations like being asked to do too much with too little help, while he still needs to fill out and figure out what his spots are at this level / how to best leverage them against NBA defenses.
So he could well end up a disappointing volume scorer with good playmaking instincts that he lacks the gravity to do enough with, but he could just as easily fill out, expand his bag, and see his efficiency take off as Detroit gives him more team-mates that can create & shoot so teams can't sell out against Cade as hard as they do currently.
The pistons scare me as a team that could push hard for IQ this summer...especially with this defense + rebounding identity that is starting to take shape up in Detroit...and one of the main reasons I think IQ would be godsend for them would be how well he could help take creative pressure off of Cade while also boosting their spacing when he's off-ball. Cause Hayes and Ivey just aren't taking any defensive attention away from Cunningham.
Thanks, always respect you too.
I think we can generally rule out rookie seasons in terms of efficiency (to your point). Second and third seasons are much more meaningful to me, and I understand that Cade missed most of last year and that his third season just got underway.
But we're starting to see some patterns persist. The numbers are extreme (on the negative end) - that's my concern. And when it comes to the eye test, I just don't see a player who's dynamic. He plays slow and I don't know if he has another gear in him. I think the combination of all these factors make it likely that he'd be better suited playing off the ball more.
I didn't mean any of this as a slight against Cade. Some players drafted high fail to meet pre-draft expectations but can still carve out a role where they contribute to winning (e.g., Aaron Gordon, Andrew Wiggins, Tyson Chandler, though they all had better tools to become elite defenders than Cade), even if it can be viewed as a demotion compared to initial expectations. I think Cade has enough tools to contribute to a team's success one day. But I don't think it'll happen in his current role, or as a high-usage star. I think it'll come in a much lesser role or from the bench.
Perhaps the raw talent will prevail in the end, but I think the concerns are legit.
I think it depends a lot on role. Like if you've got a rim running center with terrible efficiency numbers that's a big concern, when you've got a kid like Cade being asked to do way too much I think we need to be a lot more forgiving...especially with smart kids who don't have an elite tool to lean on. I do get why a kid being near the extreme would be troubling, but cade's also in extremely unfavorable circumstances.
As for his actually skillset, there are different kinds of playing slow. Some guys want to play fast but are just slow, while other guys just like to play slow. Brunson is one of the latter and IMO Cade is too. When I've watched him he always seems to be playing at the speed he wants to, rather than trying to play fast and just not having the athletic ability to play at the speed he wants to. What I want to see most from Cade is him filling out and learning to draw fouls a lot better, if he can do that, then I think it'll just be a question of his supporting cast & experience.
...why do I feel like we've had this exact same conversation about RJ?
maybe, maybe not. I just think it's way too early to be pointing to his efficiency #s as any sort of barometer for what he'll be able to do in his prime...as we're hopefully starting to see with RJ this season *fingerscrossed*
