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Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1681 » by billy_hoyle » Wed Nov 8, 2023 11:48 pm

tdotrep2 wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
Tha Cynic wrote:
You increase a player's usage and that alone will increase their numbers. You do that with a smart player and they will figure out other things in their game like efficiency and overall impact on the court.

A lot of the comments were also coming from media people who used to defend a certain PG needing more reps lol. It really hurts the brain listening to some of them, and even worse when they then come on RealGM and try to defend their hypocritical stance.


Why is this hypocritical?

We've certainly seen times in the league before where a young player can assume more responsibility in an offense without jettisoning the established player.

I think it even more defensible to hold that opinion for the Raps, because it's based on evidence that it could work.

1. Kawhi didn't need to jettison TP, Duncan and Manu to become the alpha of that later Spurs championship team.

2. Similarly, hiring a new coach, establishing a new offensive scheme, and putting FVV in a role where he was an off ball gunner, that saved his energy for pesky defense, like how he was used during OUR championship run is an entirely logically self consistent position to hold.

The question of 'is that role worth max money?' was answered in the negative by Masai.

The difference between the Kawhi situation and ours was.., they wanted Kawhi to become the man, here... we told fred to play off the ball. That **** lasted 4 games and it was back to the same old. New coach or not, a lot of Scottie getting shine is Dennis not trying to be the man, he lets Scottie do his thing. If Fred was here Fred would have the ball like Dennis does now, but the end result would be him taking 10 threes a game.


That's the coach and the system that need to get FVV wrangled in. We fired the coach that didn't push Barnes as the man. Nothing to do with FVV the talent. Another team thought he was worth max money, we didn't.

Nuff said.

Your point doesn't refute anything.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1682 » by tdotrep2 » Wed Nov 8, 2023 11:55 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
tdotrep2 wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
Why is this hypocritical?

We've certainly seen times in the league before where a young player can assume more responsibility in an offense without jettisoning the established player.

I think it even more defensible to hold that opinion for the Raps, because it's based on evidence that it could work.

1. Kawhi didn't need to jettison TP, Duncan and Manu to become the alpha of that later Spurs championship team.

2. Similarly, hiring a new coach, establishing a new offensive scheme, and putting FVV in a role where he was an off ball gunner, that saved his energy for pesky defense, like how he was used during OUR championship run is an entirely logically self consistent position to hold.

The question of 'is that role worth max money?' was answered in the negative by Masai.

The difference between the Kawhi situation and ours was.., they wanted Kawhi to become the man, here... we told fred to play off the ball. That **** lasted 4 games and it was back to the same old. New coach or not, a lot of Scottie getting shine is Dennis not trying to be the man, he lets Scottie do his thing. If Fred was here Fred would have the ball like Dennis does now, but the end result would be him taking 10 threes a game.


That's the coach and the system that need to get FVV wrangled in. We fired the coach that didn't push Barnes as the man. Nothing to do with FVV the talent. Another team thought he was worth max money, we didn't.

Nuff said.

Your point doesn't refute anything.


The coach last year tried to get him wrangled in, they couldn't and this was a coach with tenure. We fired him because the man literally said mid season I probably need time away, it was clear he wanted out, nothing to do with barnes. Another team thought he was worth 45m, and this is because they NEEDED to spend the money, masai offered him north of 30m. The issue was we couldn't afford to match because our salary situation is bad, masai wanted him back. Not sure how my point doesn't refute anyhting, really I dont.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1683 » by Vampirate » Wed Nov 8, 2023 11:57 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
Tha Cynic wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
Why is this hypocritical?

We've certainly seen times in the league before where a young player can assume more responsibility in an offense without jettisoning the established player.

I think it even more defensible to hold that opinion for the Raps, because it's based on evidence that it could work.

1. Kawhi didn't need to jettison TP, Duncan and Manu to become the alpha of that later Spurs championship team.

2. Similarly, hiring a new coach, establishing a new offensive scheme, and putting FVV in a role where he was an off ball gunner, that saved his energy for pesky defense, like how he was used during OUR championship run is an entirely logically self consistent position to hold.

The question of 'is that role worth max money?' was answered in the negative by Masai.



This is more to argue that giving a player more reps can have benefits, not that it needs to jettison anyone. This was an argument used all the time to explain FVV's struggles in the past for example. He's playing more offball, and that's not his game, etc. That logic that is used for one player is then used against another player. That's what is hypocrisy.


I agree that could potentially be hypocritical, or at the very least, a position that wasn't very self consistent. I'm still not sure what argument we are actually talking about here.

Are you saying there were posters claiming FVV was playing poorly last year because he was more off ball? And that Barnes playing better this year is because he is more on ball?

I think those types of generalizations are only true depending on a players strengths and weaknesses. Like FVV is theoretically a good spot up shooter (he wasn't last year). So, I don't think taking the ball out of his hands should negatively impact his game (as a theoretical good shooter). That's just a bad take.

However, Barnes as a poor shooter would likely be negatively impacted from being parked in the corner off/playing off ball. Because your obviously forcing him to contribute doing things he's not particularly good at.

All that to say, I'm glad I didn't read the threads stating FVV was doing poorly b/c he's playing off ball.


It's still a small sample size but there's evidence to suggest Barnes is no longer a poor shooter if you dig into the numbers.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1684 » by HumbleRen » Thu Nov 9, 2023 1:03 am

I need 20/8/5 from you #4
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1685 » by Truthrising » Thu Nov 9, 2023 2:34 am

HumbleRen wrote:I need 20/8/5 from you #4
Masai's to do list
Trade - Ibaka
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1686 » by JShuttlesworth » Thu Nov 9, 2023 3:26 am

EDIT
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1687 » by HumbleRen » Thu Nov 9, 2023 3:33 am

Truthrising wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:I need 20/8/5 from you #4


Bro turned into Ben Simmons without his jumper falling, feels bad man
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1688 » by dTox » Thu Nov 9, 2023 3:44 am

HumbleRen wrote:
Truthrising wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:I need 20/8/5 from you #4


Bro turned into Ben Simmons without his jumper falling, feels bad man
And yet he is still having a great game

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1689 » by HumbleRen » Thu Nov 9, 2023 3:46 am

dTox wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Truthrising wrote:


Bro turned into Ben Simmons without his jumper falling, feels bad man
And yet he is still having a great game

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I mean Ben Simmons is a 3 time all star lol. I meant it in that he's going to contribute without scoring that much this game.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1690 » by dTox » Thu Nov 9, 2023 3:55 am

HumbleRen wrote:
dTox wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Bro turned into Ben Simmons without his jumper falling, feels bad man
And yet he is still having a great game

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


I mean Ben Simmons is a 3 time all star lol. I meant it in that he's going to contribute without scoring that much this game.
The fact that Scottie's floor is Ben Simmons, is pretty crazy to think about. Superstar

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1691 » by HumbleRen » Thu Nov 9, 2023 3:58 am

dTox wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
dTox wrote:And yet he is still having a great game

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


I mean Ben Simmons is a 3 time all star lol. I meant it in that he's going to contribute without scoring that much this game.
The fact that Scottie's floor is Ben Simmons, is pretty crazy to think about. Superstar

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk


Yep. That shot is the only obstacle in his way.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1692 » by dTox » Thu Nov 9, 2023 4:00 am

Read on Twitter
?t=ufyzNEPA-tcRfS72MAqTFw&s=19

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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1693 » by Yallbecrazy » Thu Nov 9, 2023 4:00 am

26.7 FG%, the ship is sinking.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1694 » by DG88 » Thu Nov 9, 2023 4:01 am

dTox wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=ufyzNEPA-tcRfS72MAqTFw&s=19

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He was a workhorse today with the jumper not falling. He was bound to have a rough game sooner or later. Still ended up with 6 stocks tonight.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1695 » by traps#10 » Thu Nov 9, 2023 4:07 am

Scottie impacts winning even when not scoring. He does so many little things even with great blocking and stealing #s
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1696 » by Vampirate » Thu Nov 9, 2023 4:07 am

HumbleRen wrote:
Truthrising wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:I need 20/8/5 from you #4


Bro turned into Ben Simmons without his jumper falling, feels bad man


We're talking about the same Ben Simmons that's allergic of the FT line forget about the 3 point shot. :lol:

A bad scoring game was bound to happen, even Tatum and Brown have them.

I think the 8 rebounds and 5 assists are going to be there at least, no idea on the 20 points though.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1697 » by DemHeavyHands » Thu Nov 9, 2023 4:10 am

It happens to the best of em

Tatum had 16/15/6 on 6/14 shooting tonight

So 14/14/7/4/2 is a wild stat line for an off game. He was also the best player on the court in the 4th, so bonus points there :lol:

He’ll bounce back next game
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1698 » by tdotrep2 » Thu Nov 9, 2023 4:17 am

i dont think we understand how valuable a guy that can get you 7 dimes, with 4 steals and 2 blocks is... not even gonna mention the 14 boards. a guy who can do all this is crazy valuable.
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1699 » by YogurtProducer » Thu Nov 9, 2023 4:22 am

tdotrep2 wrote:i dont think we understand how valuable a guy that can get you 7 dimes, with 4 steals and 2 blocks is... not even gonna mention the 14 boards. a guy who can do all this is crazy valuable.

Even if he is not a first option (and IMO, he is not on a contender) - his ability to do literally everything else makes him pretty plug and play anywhere in the league. And yet we are one of the only teams in the league where the fit is suspect (beside a high usage forward who does not space the floor well :lol: )

Either way. They'll figure it out
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Re: Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6 

Post#1700 » by Scase » Thu Nov 9, 2023 4:54 am

Someone needs to kick Trent in the head, Scottie sets up the PnR with him like 5+ times a game, and trent NEVER passes despite scottie rolling with someone 5 inches shorter on him lol, god damnit Gary!
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