PG - Medíocre

[2weekswithpay]

3s

19-48

14-33

Guess who?

Grayson Allen was 8-13 himself.

Replace DDR with Grayson Allen and we are a playoff team. No cap. 3s, D, Effort. Can’t stand the guy though. Can’t stand DDR’s contested midrange bricks more though.

That wouldn't happen. Allen won't get the same look on the Bulls, they don't have the playmaking or scoring talent.

[Chi town]

3s

19-48

14-33

Guess who?

Grayson Allen was 8-13 himself.

Replace DDR with Grayson Allen and we are a playoff team. No cap. 3s, D, Effort. Can’t stand the guy though. Can’t stand DDR’s contested midrange bricks more though.

That wouldn't happen. Allen won't get the same look on the Bulls, they don't have the playmaking or scoring talent.

Of course it wouldn’t. I’m talking about way more than just his 3s. He would increase our whole defense much like Caruso, get us easier shots through steals, and limit 3s and defensive breakdowns. His effort would raise the whole effort of our team much like Caruso.

Replacing DDR’s 3 3s per game with Allen’s 8 would help too. 5 contested midrange shots with 3s would help.

[DropStep]

Caruso is consistently the one that makes the most impact. He should net the Bulls some good assets at the trade deadline when we blow up this trash roster

ESPN is pimping him as a DPOY candidate today. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38842999/alex-caruso-defensive-player-year-candidate-chicago-bulls

[Mirotek]

Give Caruso the amount of shots Zach and Demar take and he'll be an allstar.

[LateNight]

Caruso is amazing. We have a bunch of great players on our team - the problem is the highest paid guys are deeply flawed.

I’m sad that I don’t think I’ll ever get to see Caruso in a Bulls jersey alongside an actual, winning star player. The closest we’ll probably get is Derozan - who is clutch but one-way and declining

[2weekswithpay]

3s

19-48

14-33

Guess who?

Grayson Allen was 8-13 himself.

Replace DDR with Grayson Allen and we are a playoff team. No cap. 3s, D, Effort. Can’t stand the guy though. Can’t stand DDR’s contested midrange bricks more though.

That wouldn't happen. Allen won't get the same look on the Bulls, they don't have the playmaking or scoring talent.

Of course it wouldn’t. I’m talking about way more than just his 3s. He would increase our whole defense much like Caruso, get us easier shots through steals, and limit 3s and defensive breakdowns. His effort would raise the whole effort of our team much like Caruso.

Replacing DDR’s 3 3s per game with Allen’s 8 would help too. 5 contested midrange shots with 3s would help.

Allen isn't a good defender though, and playing better defense than Derozan isn't a high bar to clear. He tries but good teams exploit his defensive deficiencies all the time. The Bulls are a bad team with a bad offense so they can't exploit him like other teams.

Sure the team will get more effort on defense but they'll lose playmaking and shot creation which are needed for shooters like Allen to contribute.

[FriedRise]

The 0-3 make each other worse.

They are holding back the rest of the roster.

Trade DDR for a defensive PF and start Caruso and we are a playoff team.

Starting to realize that whichever 2 players we start next to the Mid 3 will always look worse. Craig is now pretty much Pat from last week in terms of impact and production.

All 3 players are below average offensively, and on defense, half the time they're not even trying. They consistently need a spark to get themselves going, and when they don't, it's a 22-4 deficit. You have to be a Caruso level elite player to absorb AND elevate the negative production those 3 create. And if you start Caruso long enough, I think he'll be a negative player eventually. As Pat Bev said, they bullshitting over here man.

At this point if I'm Carter, keep me on the bench please. I hope they didn't realize that I haven't played a single minute with those 3.

[burlydee]

That was probably one of Zachs best games but I still left the arena wanting more. His turnovers down the stretch were killer. An all star guard cant consistently do that stuff, yes Zach does.

Same with Vuc. Numbers look fine. But he was outplayed by Nurk and missed some key shots down the stretch. His defense at the rim was really bad too. The Bulls give up too much dribble, penetration and the help on the interior isn't great. I rarely look at +/- but I think it shows how these guys are rarely the catalyst when Bulls have runs.

DDR is Bulls only good offensive player in clutch but he's looking like a 34 year old wing more and more.

The reason ppl struggle so much playing with the big 3 is because they are below average playmakers who don't consistently require a double team. It's going to be hard for Craig or Coby or Williams or Carter to find open shots in that environment. Caruso gets the Bulls open shots by getting them in transition and creating turnovers. They have to find a way to start him.

[kodo]

Lavine had almost a triple double, 22/8/8 on 54%/50% shooting. In an OT game everyone could have played a bit better, but he's pretty low on my blame list tonight. He was the setting up Vuc really well.

Zach was responsible for at least 6 wide open 3s.

He also had two costly turnovers in the last two mins.

He is only a winning player if he plays as a shooter but Billy won’t run him off any screens and when Zach does get the ball he dribbled into a tough contested 3 instead of shooting the open/lightly contested 3.

Wide open 3s is how the Bulls play defense, this isn't a mistake by Lavine or any other player it's by design. We've allowed more 3s than any other team for 91 games. This is the plan by the Bulls org.

Vucevic had 3 TOs + 5 fouls, most of which were shooting fouls
Derozan also had 2 TOs
White had 2 TOs
Only Craig as a starter didn't turn the ball over.

Lavine was also one of the only guys taking rebounding seriously in a game where Phoenix had an absurd 30% offensive rebounding rate. Nurkic had 8 offensive boards. Vucevic had 4 defensive rebounds in almost 42 minutes. You can point to anything in an OT loss, but this was especially awful.

[Red8911]

I’m a Suns fan and I just want to say, I thought you guys got robbed. Low key I was rooting for the Bulls to win because Caruso was amazing and deserved this win more than anyone on the Suns did. Suns winning was absolutely a fluke, Bulls outplayed us 99% but that 1% you guys got some favorable calls in your favor imo.

I will say, Vucevic really sucked for yall down the stretch and I felt like if he didn’t take some terrible shots late in the game that led to 1 and done for the Bulls then yall would’ve won. I really think getting rid of him and “selling high” should be the first step the Bulls need to do if they want to build a contender around DeRozan/LaVine/Caruso.

Even someone like Bismack Biyombo who just recently signed for vet min with Memphis would’ve been better fit for this team than Vucevic just because of the defense and toughness Biyombo brings (which I saw first hand when he was with the Suns).

For this game Vuc played well. 26 points 11-18 shooting also made a few big shots.

Now do the Bulls need another type of defensive type of center ? That’s up for debate. Many of us here know that the “big 3” (Vuc, DeRozan,Lavine) don’t really fit together and maybe one of them has to go.

Vucevic though is a pretty good starting center who puts up double doubles all the time and rarely misses games. Only problem comes down to is again the fit.

[Red8911]

3s

19-48

14-33

Guess who?

Grayson Allen was 8-13 himself.

Replace DDR with Grayson Allen and we are a playoff team. No cap. 3s, D, Effort. Can’t stand the guy though. Can’t stand DDR’s contested midrange bricks more though.

Terrible take. In this league you need talent to win games. Who’s going to take the big shots during crunch time? Zach? Good luck making the playoffs like that lol.

[burlydee]

I’m a Suns fan and I just want to say, I thought you guys got robbed. Low key I was rooting for the Bulls to win because Caruso was amazing and deserved this win more than anyone on the Suns did. Suns winning was absolutely a fluke, Bulls outplayed us 99% but that 1% you guys got some favorable calls in your favor imo.

I will say, Vucevic really sucked for yall down the stretch and I felt like if he didn’t take some terrible shots late in the game that led to 1 and done for the Bulls then yall would’ve won. I really think getting rid of him and “selling high” should be the first step the Bulls need to do if they want to build a contender around DeRozan/LaVine/Caruso.

Even someone like Bismack Biyombo who just recently signed for vet min with Memphis would’ve been better fit for this team than Vucevic just because of the defense and toughness Biyombo brings (which I saw first hand when he was with the Suns).

For this game Vuc played well. 26 points 11-18 shooting also made a few big shots.

Now do the Bulls need another type of defensive type of center ? That’s up for debate. Many of us here know that the “big 3” (Vuc, DeRozan,Lavine) don’t really fit together and maybe one of them has to go.

Vucevic though is a pretty good starting center who puts up double doubles all the time and rarely misses games. Only problem comes down to is again the fit.

Vuc double-doubles are the most overrated thing in Chicago sports. The entire game plan is for him to be under the rim grabbing boards.

[IamSam]

The Bulls need to figure out how to get some production from that 4 spot; a total of 3 points, 2 assists, and 6 rebounds for an entire game that went into overtime is

[burlydee]

The Bulls best line ups have consistently been Vuc-Derozan-Lavine-Caruso-PG. Billy just needs to bite the bullet and start the game like that. The problem is this puts a lot of pressure on Caruso to guard power forwards. Solution - make Zach or Derozan guard power forwards and sub in Craig for the Zion like matchups. But the Bulls have to get Caruso on the floor to start games and with the mid-3 if they want to pretend to be serious about winning games.

[MissileMike]

The Bulls best line ups have consistently been Vuc-Derozan-Lavine-Caruso-PG. Billy just needs to bite the bullet and start the game like that. The problem is this puts a lot of pressure on Caruso to guard power forwards. Solution - make Zach or Derozan guard power forwards and sub in Craig for the Zion like matchups. But the Bulls have to get Caruso on the floor to start games and with the mid-3 if they want to pretend to be serious about winning games.

excuse my ignorance, but who is PG? Maybe PW?

[Chi town]

That wouldn't happen. Allen won't get the same look on the Bulls, they don't have the playmaking or scoring talent.

Of course it wouldn’t. I’m talking about way more than just his 3s. He would increase our whole defense much like Caruso, get us easier shots through steals, and limit 3s and defensive breakdowns. His effort would raise the whole effort of our team much like Caruso.

Replacing DDR’s 3 3s per game with Allen’s 8 would help too. 5 contested midrange shots with 3s would help.

Allen isn't a good defender though, and playing better defense than Derozan isn't a high bar to clear. He tries but good teams exploit his defensive deficiencies all the time. The Bulls are a bad team with a bad offense so they can't exploit him like other teams.

Sure the team will get more effort on defense but they'll lose playmaking and shot creation which are needed for shooters like Allen to contribute.

I agree in theory.

The issue is DDR has much less gravity than you think. He doesn’t draw double teams anymore. He takes contested mid range shots and doesn’t get FTs, few makes, and he doesn’t create shots for others.

DDR also slows down the offense and team.

What we would lose in gravity we would gain in pace, 3s, ball movement, and easier baskets in transition.

[MrSparkle]

Quite apparent to me (us? the world?) that Billy's most straight-forward solution should be putting 1 (or 2) of the 3 to the bench. Demar and Vuc have proven to be a horrendous defensive pairing, and Zach/Demar have proven to be a disastrous wing pairing.

It's becoming quite apparent that our best lineup is probably something like:

Coby-Caruso-Zach-Pat-X

Why? Largely because the 3P spacing and defense are both NBA adequate. I think Vuc hurts more than he helps, but between him and Drummond, you're picking poison. I actually/honestly/earnestly think in largely sample size, Drummond would prove to be a more beneficial C (rebounds, occasional super play), and usually when you play a guy with focus issues , you might remember the 3 Shaqtin-a-Fool moments, but he can also find a rhythm and be a net positive with his incredible advantage on the glass.

But of course Vuc won't like it. And Vuc/Demar don't pair well, cause of the defense thing. So why not just run this lineup?

Coby-Caruso-Zach-Pat-Vuc

6/7 Demar/Drummond
8/9 Jevon/Craig

It's really worth trying, before making a trade. You actually win games when you put starters on the bench, who don't maximize their games in the starting lineup. Niko/Portis proved this. Gordon/Chandler proved this. Jason Terry. Manu (although of course he particularly could start just as fine, anywhere). But this isn't the time for banging heads into the wall. Maybe Demar's feelings are hurt, but they're running out of options. We have 2 solid seasons seasons of data, and a pre-season plus 10 games of the same exact result.

Coby/Zach/Demar/Vuc (the highest-minute quartet) have a net rt. of -21.5. Craig has seemingly made things worse. These results aren't linear, but one thing for certain is that Caruso has the highest single plus-effect on any line-up. If you want to maximize Coby/Zach/Pat/Vuc, maybe let's do that? Demar will get his points with whoever is on the floor, and he'll do an even better job against B units with fresh legs.

[2weekswithpay]

That was probably one of Zachs best games but I still left the arena wanting more. His turnovers down the stretch were killer. An all star guard cant consistently do that stuff, yes Zach does.

Same with Vuc. Numbers look fine. But he was outplayed by Nurk and missed some key shots down the stretch. His defense at the rim was really bad too. The Bulls give up too much dribble, penetration and the help on the interior isn't great. I rarely look at +/- but I think it shows how these guys are rarely the catalyst when Bulls have runs.

DDR is Bulls only good offensive player in clutch but he's looking like a 34 year old wing more and more.

The reason ppl struggle so much playing with the big 3 is because they are below average playmakers who don't consistently require a double team. It's going to be hard for Craig or Coby or Williams or Carter to find open shots in that environment. Caruso gets the Bulls open shots by getting them in transition and creating turnovers. They have to find a way to start him.

To add, the big 3 aren't great playmakers, can't play off-ball, and only Zach is explosive enough to get downhill. When you can't breakdown a defense you'll end up taking a lot of contested jumpers.

[Ebo21]

Quite apparent to me (us? the world?) that Billy's most straight-forward solution should be putting 1 (or 2) of the 3 to the bench. Demar and Vuc have proven to be a horrendous defensive pairing, and Zach/Demar have proven to be a disastrous wing pairing.

It's becoming quite apparent that our best lineup is probably something like:

Coby-Caruso-Zach-Pat-X

Why? Largely because the 3P spacing and defense are both NBA adequate. I think Vuc hurts more than he helps, but between him and Drummond, you're picking poison. I actually/honestly/earnestly think in largely sample size, Drummond would prove to be a more beneficial C (rebounds, occasional super play), and usually when you play a guy with focus issues , you might remember the 3 Shaqtin-a-Fool moments, but he can also find a rhythm and be a net positive with his incredible advantage on the glass.

But of course Vuc won't like it. And Vuc/Demar don't pair well, cause of the defense thing. So why not just run this lineup?

Coby-Caruso-Zach-Pat-Vuc

6/7 Demar/Drummond
8/9 Jevon/Craig

It's really worth trying, before making a trade. You actually win games when you put starters on the bench, who don't maximize their games in the starting lineup. Niko/Portis proved this. Gordon/Chandler proved this. Jason Terry. Manu (although of course he particularly could start just as fine, anywhere). But this isn't the time for banging heads into the wall. Maybe Demar's feelings are hurt, but they're running out of options. We have 2 solid seasons seasons of data, and a pre-season plus 10 games of the same exact result.

Coby/Zach/Demar/Vuc (the highest-minute quartet) have a net rt. of -21.5. Craig has seemingly made things worse. These results aren't linear, but one thing for certain is that Caruso has the highest single plus-effect on any line-up. If you want to maximize Coby/Zach/Pat/Vuc, maybe let's do that? Demar will get his points with whoever is on the floor, and he'll do an even better job against B units with fresh legs.

This 1000%. DDR needs to come off the bench. His offense has regressed as you mentioned and he would take advantage of 2nd unit defenders and be able to effectively play his midrange iso ball. He’s reached the late Melo years of his career. Time to accept it and move on accordingly.

[madvillian]

This is the type of game that strikes fear into the hearts of upcoming draft prospects ranked #4-7.