Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[Klomp]

1) I dont see NYK trading Mitchell they built their identity on outworking opponent on the glass, and Mitchell is a key performer here
2) as archetype of big man I dont see Mitchell fitting next to Gobert...

Good point on the Knicks possibly lacking interest. But I figure the acquisition of Towns could outweigh that.

As I said, I'm more thinking about Robinson as a way to take Gobert's archetype and continue it when he's off the floor and going forward when he eventually moves on. I know ideally we'd like him to be able to play next to Gobert, but that's not why I'm trading for him.

[Domejandro]

Gotta be honest, I really don't see why Minnesota would lower their ceiling by trading Karl-Anthony Towns, especially at this point in the season. Minnesota's offense plummets when he is on the bench, despite his offense being largely putrid, this season.

If anything, I would expect a consolidation trade at the Trade Deadline, depending on which teams are cratered out of the Playoff race. An unrealistic example (just to get interest in the idea) would be something like Shake Milton, Troy Brown Jr., and Draft capital for Alex Caruso (maybe a third team sends expirings + seconds to Chicago to help facilitate). More realistically, maybe Minnesota can target someone like T.J. McConnell, Delon Wright, or Monte Morris.

The equation is basically...

Shake Milton ($5MM) + Troy Brown Jr. ($4MM) + Wendell Moore Jr. ($2,421,720) + Jordan McLaughlin ($2.32MM)

for a player like Alex Caruso (dream target), Monte Morris, Alec Burks, T.J. McConnell, Delon Wright, etc.

[Neeva]

Wolves definitely need a better guard off the bench, NAW can be real good some games but need someone more reliable in defense and shooting. Jmac and Shake are sadly not that.

[TimberKat]

Wolves definitely need a better guard off the bench, NAW can be real good some games but need someone more reliable in defense and shooting. Jmac and Shake are sadly not that.

When Milton signed, we got so many msg saying he is the super Nowell that can pass, shot the 3s, and drive. So far it's Nowell minus. Therefore, I am not interested in any Towns trade unless it's an established player. Anyone could look great on highlight wheels.

[jpatrick]

Gotta be honest, I really don't see why Minnesota would lower their ceiling by trading Karl-Anthony Towns, especially at this point in the season. Minnesota's offense plummets when he is on the bench, despite his offense being largely putrid, this season.

If anything, I would expect a consolidation trade at the Trade Deadline, depending on which teams are cratered out of the Playoff race. An unrealistic example (just to get interest in the idea) would be something like Shake Milton, Troy Brown Jr., and Draft capital for Alex Caruso (maybe a third team sends expirings + seconds to Chicago to help facilitate). More realistically, maybe Minnesota can target someone like T.J. McConnell, Delon Wright, or Monte Morris.

The equation is basically...

Shake Milton ($5MM) + Troy Brown Jr. ($4MM) + Wendell Moore Jr. ($2,421,720) + Jordan McLaughlin ($2.32MM)

for a player like Alex Caruso (dream target), Monte Morris, Alec Burks, T.J. McConnell, Delon Wright, etc.

I agree with all of this. I don’t see us moving KAT this season unless something goes horribly wrong (or some incredible offer is made). He gives us the best chance to win in the playoffs where you need multiple superstar offensive creators. I also think the most likely path is something for a combo type guard off the bench that is more reliable than our current group.

However, geez, adding up next year’s salaries, we might be at/close to the second apron without signing Conley/Anderson, which we’d desperately need to do. Not only would our tax bill be astronomical, but we’d have all the penalties that go along with being a second apron team. Lure/Arod are rich, but they are not rich in the way some NBA owners are. Jon K. said on a pod today that there are rumors they might not have the money to make the last installment payment for the Wolves, although he’s been told everything is still on track. I just don’t see them taking that penalty on unless we made the finals or at least an incredible playoff run, and even then, I’m not sure.

[shrink]

Is John Collins a good fit? Would we be able to swing a 3-team trade for him?

We have Reid, Anderson, Towns and Gobert as bigs. Why would we want another one?

This was a question in regard to possible Town's trades...

We just saw Towns obliterate Collins, and it took ATL two years to find a team to take him in trade after they gave him that salary.

[Wolveswin]

I agree about Suggs, but:

1) I dont see NYK trading Mitchell they built their identity on outworking opponent on the glass, and Mitchell is a key performer here
2) as archetype of big man I dont see Mitchell fitting next to Gobert...

But I have another idea: what if we need our Al Horford type of a big next to Gobert? Horford has been struggling his whole career against true bigs, but once he developed more three point shot he became a really unique big. Horford is a good connector in offense, he moves the ball, knows his spots. When we speak about physical tools, we are looking for 6'9", 240 lbs, with 7'+ wingspan. Kind of undersized big.

The closest thing to Horford might be Wendell Carter Jr.: 6’9", 245 lbs with a 7′4” wingspan. He is versatile enough both in offense and defense, improving 3pt shooter and passer.

But the biggest thing about Carter Jr is his descending contract:

13 mil 2023-24
12 mil 2024-25
11 mil 2025-26

For MIN his descending contract would be an absolute STEAL, because of our salary situation.

So trade would be: Towns, Moore for Carter Jr, Suggs, Isaac and late DEN 2025 FRP

Why for ORL: I truly beleive that Towns as five-out С would speed up their development because Towns, Banchero and Wagner would open the paint for Fultz, Black.

MIN roster after trade:

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Carter/Anderson/Isaac +Miller
MCD/Brown/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Milton
Conley/Suggs/McLaughlin

Next year can keep Conley and Anderson, waive or trade Isaac. AND most importantly we will keep our core for another season.

Gobert/Reid/???
Carter/Anderson/Miller
MCD/Brown/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Milton
Conley/Suggs/???

I like WCJ a lot, but isn't he always hurt? He's out for at least 3 weeks after hand surgery right now.

And is Towns, Banchero and Wagner a good enough defensive front court for Orlando to add KAT's SuperMax?

To Knicks: Towns + Moore + McLaughlin

To Magic: Quickley + Robinson

To Wolves: WCJ + Suggs + *Fournier + Picks (from Knicks)

*Fournier to Magic and Fultz to Wolves if they want some more guard play.

Knicks get Towns.

Magic get more D at center. I think they prefer that as an “upgrade” to WCJ rather than Towns direct.

Wolves solve their money crunch. Quickley can go to Wolves but I like Suggs fit better and his two rookie contract years left. WCJ and Reid can battle for PF minutes and backup C. At some point one can be moved - combined with the Knicks picks - for what hole in lineup might exist in future.

Gobert | Reid | WCJ
Anderson | WCJ | Reid (maybe Anderson off bench)
McDaniels | Anderson
Edwards | NAW | Suggs
Conely | Suggs (if Suggs can learn from Conley to be ideal G next to Edwards - huge win)

[TimberKat]

I just don't see WCJ + Suggs is better than Towns. We could just do Milton + Moore + 2nd to get Suggs.

[Wolveswin]

I just don't see WCJ + Suggs is better than Towns. We could just do Milton + Moore + 2nd to get Suggs.

That doesn’t get Suggs. Doesn’t get Magic to answer phone nor realistic.

[shrink]

I was looking over our pick equity in case a few injuries arose and we needed to make a trade, and I had forgotten that while DEN gets our 2024 2nd, we have one coming in that is the worse of WAS … and MEM! The two have a combined win total of three. Yes, Connelly’s DLo trade is a gift that just keeps giving!

We also own our own 1st unencumbered, and while we couldn’t trade it because of the Stepian Rule, I’m getting pretty damn comfortable at the moment trading away swap rights.

It’s likely we don’t trade either pick, so I project we will have #30 and #32 in next year’s draft.

[NebWolvesFan]

The Robert Williams injury is a big deal. He was the affordable center on the market who could help teams needing help at C. With him out for the year, KAT becomes one of the few centers available for teams looking for one.

[Klomp]

I was looking over our pick equity in case a few injuries arose and we needed to make a trade, and I had forgotten that while DEN gets our 2024 2nd, we have one coming in that is the worse of WAS … and MEM! The two have a combined win total of three. Yes, Connelly’s DLo trade is a gift that just keeps giving!

We also own our own 1st unencumbered, and while we couldn’t trade it because of the Stepian Rule, I’m getting pretty damn comfortable at the moment trading away swap rights.

It’s likely we don’t trade either pick, so I project we will have #30 and #32 in next year’s draft.

Oh snap, nice recall on that! I forgot about it. I don't expect Memphis to stay bad forever once Ja returns, but 22 of their 52 games against the West this year come during the Morant suspension, so I don't expect them to climb too high in the West unless they somehow annihilate the East. That's probably locked in as a Top 40 pick at this point.

[thinktank]

I actually wouldn’t advocate for trading KAT until at least the off-season. Barring something unforeseen.

I asked for more and I’m getting more, in the form of defense. That’s almost best case scenario. Thumbs up.

But if I had to trade KAT, I kinda like Suggs and picks and maybe get flyer Isaac thrown in.

Suggs has that dog in him!

Isaac is still tantalizing.

[TimberKat]

I actually wouldn’t advocate for trading KAT until at least the off-season. Barring something unforeseen.

I asked for more and I’m getting more, in the form of defense. That’s almost best case scenario. Thumbs up.

But if I had to trade KAT, I kinda like Suggs and picks and maybe get flyer Isaac thrown in.

Suggs has that dog in him!

Isaac is still tantalizing.

I like your post until the Suggs part. I get he is from Minneapolis and hit an all-time great shot vs UCLA. However, if I look at his stats and a few games of eye test, he is not much better than Milton or Brown. At best is unproven commodity right now. So, not going to give up Towns for him. If we do, it's basically Towns had a 2022 Westbrook year and we are dumping salary.

[Klomp]

Since shrink brought up picks, I think it's worth bringing up...

The fear-mongering around the KAT trade is that "we need to replenish assets from the Gobert trade." But with high-potential guys like Minott and Miller as DNP-CDs, plus two more likely Top 40 picks coming this summer, do we really?! Do we really need to sell (low) on KAT, when things obviously (to this point) have been working.

I understand the idea of asset management around the young guys, but selling others low to make room in the rotation for them doesn't seem wise.

[Klomp]

Would defensive concerns turn you off to a certain trade target? Or is our identity strong enough that you think they would be open to adding one player who's maybe not as ready on that end?

I'm curious if Tim could circle back to Bones Hyland at the trade deadline. He's on the fringe of the rotation in LA after the trade, getting just 5 minutes on Wednesday night.

[jpatrick]

Since shrink brought up picks, I think it's worth bringing up...

The fear-mongering around the KAT trade is that "we need to replenish assets from the Gobert trade." But with high-potential guys like Minott and Miller as DNP-CDs, plus two more likely Top 40 picks coming this summer, do we really?! Do we really need to sell (low) on KAT, when things obviously (to this point) have been working.

I understand the idea of asset management around the young guys, but selling others low to make room in the rotation for them doesn't seem wise.

I don’t think replenishing assets is a valid reason to trade KAT. I could hear an argument about getting a better fit if we start to struggle, which we obviously are not doing now. But the biggest and most legit argument is financial. I don’t think we’re going to go through next year with the enormous tax bill that comes with the second apron (without even resigning Conley/Anderson), not to mention the draconian non-financial penalties that come with it. So, if we’re going to trade KAT, I could see an argument that you want to do it this season, when he’s making much less money, which makes it easier to deal him.


All that said, I don’t see us making a KAT deal unless we struggle. I think Connelly and ownership wants us to make a playoff at all possible, and KAT gives us our best chance.

[younggunsmn]

Since shrink brought up picks, I think it's worth bringing up...

The fear-mongering around the KAT trade is that "we need to replenish assets from the Gobert trade." But with high-potential guys like Minott and Miller as DNP-CDs, plus two more likely Top 40 picks coming this summer, do we really?! Do we really need to sell (low) on KAT, when things obviously (to this point) have been working.

I understand the idea of asset management around the young guys, but selling others low to make room in the rotation for them doesn't seem wise.

I don't think it's about replenishing assets at all, it's about being being able to maintain the quality in our top 8 players in the rotation and whether or not our ownership will be willing/able to pay 60-80 million in luxury taxes just to keep Conley and fill the PG spot, let alone thinking about keeping Kyle Anderson.

The starting PG position, and the quality of player we would be able to afford there, is of particular concern.
Conley and Anderson are also absolutely keys to our culture and so key to our offensive and defensive schemes.

Denver is an interesting comparison, they are paying their top 5 players. After that they have Reggie Jackson at 5 million. The rest of their roster is players on rookie contracts and vet minimums.
The hope for us is that guys like Miller and Moore would be able to step into the main rotation.

Trading KAT is simply the best and most obvious way out of that financial hole.
That's why it's such a big talker and will continue to be. His contract will still be very tradable through the draft next year, but when the new CBA kicks in, in July, the list of suitors will dwindle with the new rules kicking in for luxury tax and supertax teams.

I think we need one quality rotation player back in any KAT deal.
Trading KAT would hinder our offensive ceiling, but will Jaden and/or Naz have stepped up enough by the end of the season to fill that void and make starting Naz or Kyle next to Gobert viable? Do we find a cheaper starting PF coming back in the trade?

I don't like what the Knicks have to offer. I don't think Robinson or Quickley are quality starters and Quickley is only attractive because of his rookie contract and he asked for 25 million on his extension. No thanks.
Keep Randle away from this team.
The Nets are an attractive suitor with a ton of draft assets, and Dinwiddie and Finney-Smith as potential salary filler (Simmons is a an absolute no at this point).

We could potentially save 4-5 million by declining Shake and Brown's options next year and replacing them with vet mins.
We could also get hit with another 7.5 million if Ant makes an All-NBA team.

I think the chances of KAT being traded by this year's deadline are very small unless we are really struggling.

[Neeva]

I actually wouldn’t advocate for trading KAT until at least the off-season. Barring something unforeseen.

I asked for more and I’m getting more, in the form of defense. That’s almost best case scenario. Thumbs up.

But if I had to trade KAT, I kinda like Suggs and picks and maybe get flyer Isaac thrown in.

Suggs has that dog in him!

Isaac is still tantalizing.

I like your post until the Suggs part. I get he is from Minneapolis and hit an all-time great shot vs UCLA. However, if I look at his stats and a few games of eye test, he is not much better than Milton or Brown. At best is unproven commodity right now. So, not going to give up Towns for him. If we do, it's basically Towns had a 2022 Westbrook year and we are dumping salary.

Suggs shooting can be erractic especially for a shooting guard but I have been impressed, he gives 100 percent effort , especially defensively. He would fit right in and wreak absolute havoc along side Ant, Jaden, NAW and Rudy. I think also his offense is hurt not having a pg like Conley. Orlando’s pgs are terrible. I can see Orlando not wanting to pay him a big contract and honestly I wouldn’t want the timberwolves to either unless his shooting improved a lot here.

[thinktank]

I actually wouldn’t advocate for trading KAT until at least the off-season. Barring something unforeseen.

I asked for more and I’m getting more, in the form of defense. That’s almost best case scenario. Thumbs up.

But if I had to trade KAT, I kinda like Suggs and picks and maybe get flyer Isaac thrown in.

Suggs has that dog in him!

Isaac is still tantalizing.

I like your post until the Suggs part. I get he is from Minneapolis and hit an all-time great shot vs UCLA. However, if I look at his stats and a few games of eye test, he is not much better than Milton or Brown. At best is unproven commodity right now. So, not going to give up Towns for him. If we do, it's basically Towns had a 2022 Westbrook year and we are dumping salary.

No way. Suggs is a defensive monster. 7 steals last night. He’s doing this already. Milton and Brown will never do that.