PG - Medíocre

[BullChit]

Net Ratings for the 1 game:

Starters: White/Lavine/DDR/Craig/Vuc: -77.2

Starters w/ Caruso sub: White/Caruso/Lavine/Derozan/Vuc: +24.1
Bench Mob + DDR: Carter/Caruso/DDR/PWill/Andre: +85.7
Starters w/ Caruso, but w/ Craig: +2.2
Ayo lineup: Ayo / Carter / DDR / PWill / Vuc: +38.1

It's almost impossible to find a lineup that doesn't work, and we choose to start and get into a -18 deficit with the one lineup that can't play basketball together.

As I said last night I think BD wants to get fired. Or, and this is also plausible, he's been ordered to play the mid 3 as much as possible (including well into the 2nd half of the 3rd last night) in order to try and show the world the benefits of "continuity".

https://youtu.be/a3TCeRdVyw4?si=kII-g36cG0v-SRz0

[Stratmaster]

I wouldn't go that far. Zach was uninvolved for the first 2 minutes of the first but after that, it's hard to say Zach wasn't involved. Shot attempts don't always reflect offensive usage.

Spoiler:

This is the first Bulls' possession after a timeout and it's a play for Zach. Zach does get separation as well off the screen but with Demar being on the wing, Diop can help off to defend the shot/drive. With the play dead, the possession turns into a Demar ISO.

On the next possession, Zach drives but bad spacing again. Craig is in the dunker's spot so KD is already in the paint to defend any shots at the rim. Beals walls off Coby on the drive but even if he hadn't Diop is there to cut off any drives because Demar is on the wing again.

A better pull-up shooter may shoot this since Nurkic is dropping back but regardless if Zach isn't going to shoot this then he needs to at least keep his dribble. You don't put any pressure on the defense when you pick up the ball so early. Another bad possession.

Zach wastes half the clock trying to post-up Allen for whatever reason. Coby and Vuc manage to salvage this possession.

I didn't mean to insinuate he never touched the ball. I should have separated my 2 thoughts.

1. It was the first 4 or 5 possessions that were obviously purposefully set up for other players. I don't see Bulls opponents doing this. It seems like antiquated basketball.

2. Zach didn't shoot the first 5.5 minutes. This was partially due to the Bulls approach but also due to the defense focusing on him, as they did the whole game.

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1. I'll concede that the Bulls tried to get Demar involved but Vuc only got shots up because he's the primary screener and I doubt somebody told Craig to take a fading midrange shot.

2. Zach not taking any shots was more of a coincidence than anything.

That was clearly purposeful that Craig took that possession.

Watch the first 2 plus minutes again.

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[Infinity2152]

I think they're kind of hamstrung until they can get this contract off. Patrick Williams slow development is also a big problem, he's a number 4 pick. If he was at the level of Donovan Mitchell or Haliburton, this team would be better. You all are right this current core needs a player like Ball to function, and there are very few players like that. He's not a star, but added length, passing, shooting, defense and rebounding. Moving Derozan or Lavine last year, we didn't own our pick, so tanking was pointless.

Basically, we have the same assets as last year, some worth a little less, some a little more. Derozan may be MORE tradeable as an expiring than with a year left, depending on the team. A Vucevic locked up for three years at $20 mill may be MORE valuable to a team with cap space and a need. Most moves he could make would probably have us in roughly the same position, other than trade EVERYONE. Maybe another first round pick or two three years from now. Looking at the league, more important to get a top 10-15 player or two than build a complete team, they make teams work. Philly has not been a team where everybody fits, Lakers, Dallas either, we won't see real winning till we get one of the top guys, hopefully next to Lavine instead of asking him to be what's he's not.

Given that we have our pick this year, and didn't last year, wouldn't this be a better year to suck, anyway?

[Chi town]

Lavine had almost a triple double, 22/8/8 on 54%/50% shooting. In an OT game everyone could have played a bit better, but he's pretty low on my blame list tonight. He was the setting up Vuc really well.

Zach was responsible for at least 6 wide open 3s.

He also had two costly turnovers in the last two mins.

He is only a winning player if he plays as a shooter but Billy won’t run him off any screens and when Zach does get the ball he dribbled into a tough contested 3 instead of shooting the open/lightly contested 3.

Lavine had 1 turnover in q4 and OT (:45 Q4). I just triple checked it.

What about Demar's turnover at 1:11 of q4?

Coby at 4:48 of the OT.

Coby again at 1:46 of OT

Caruso had 1 down the stretch also.

But what you saw as a negative was 8 assist, 8 rebounds, 22 points on 13 shots Zach Lavine.





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I just checked. He had two turnovers. Rewatch. Play by play may have messed up.

Zach’s D was awful. Wide open 3s all game.

He played a good floor game until crunch time. Normal for him.

He’s a max player. He has to be better. I am also over critical of him because he makes everything so much harder. If he simply played as a shooter and Bilkybran screens for him he would be incredible. Like crazy good. Instead he pump fakes out of good shots in the flow of the game to dribble around and take contested shots… that he does make but he could make way more at a higher clip.

[2weekswithpay]

I didn't mean to insinuate he never touched the ball. I should have separated my 2 thoughts.

1. It was the first 4 or 5 possessions that were obviously purposefully set up for other players. I don't see Bulls opponents doing this. It seems like antiquated basketball.

2. Zach didn't shoot the first 5.5 minutes. This was partially due to the Bulls approach but also due to the defense focusing on him, as they did the whole game.

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1. I'll concede that the Bulls tried to get Demar involved but Vuc only got shots up because he's the primary screener and I doubt somebody told Craig to take a fading midrange shot.

2. Zach not taking any shots was more of a coincidence than anything.

That was clearly purposeful that Craig took that possession.

Watch the first 2 plus minutes again.

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Derozan's drive was cut off and Craig was the outlet. Craig attacked KD's closeout but the late switch cut off his drive. This is not a designed play.

[RSP83]

Some posters I don't even think are watching the games I think they box score watching waiting to see if it's a loss then coming in to spew the rebuild rhetoric smh it's making this place a little unenjoyable smh

Truth is the team actually played pretty good last night. This wasn't some scrub team they were playing this is a team the Suns who have championship aspirations. And we went toe to toe with them and if not for a couple bad turnovers from lavine and especially vuc we would have beat them after being down double digits to them twice.

I'm just saying it's some games to really be down on the team, this not one of them as they showed a lot of fight and if not for a couple bad mistakes would have won it.

The bolded part is the concerning part for me. This loss is a letdown because it's clear to me the Mid-3 is not going to get much better, I mean they have 3 years to work it out, and it's far from getting better. So this loss to me is like a hint of what it's going to look like the rest of the year. The Net Rating of the Mid-3 playing together is not looking good, yet I'm sure we will be forced to see them play big minutes every game, which is difficult to watch.

[dukeespn]

Some posters I don't even think are watching the games I think they box score watching waiting to see if it's a loss then coming in to spew the rebuild rhetoric smh it's making this place a little unenjoyable smh

Truth is the team actually played pretty good last night. This wasn't some scrub team they were playing this is a team the Suns who have championship aspirations. And we went toe to toe with them and if not for a couple bad turnovers from lavine and especially vuc we would have beat them after being down double digits to them twice.

I'm just saying it's some games to really be down on the team, this not one of them as they showed a lot of fight and if not for a couple bad mistakes would have won it.

Eh, the suns are not good right now. Not without Booker and a banged up Beal and an aged Durant learning to play with Nurkic.

We are what are record says we are: 3-6. .333 winning percentage. I expect we'll be around 25-32 by the New Year and will finish around 35-47 by spring.

Unless we just blow it up, which doesn't seem likely.

The Suns are not good because Booker is out? There's a starter not playing on our team for the whole season named Lonzo Ball. Yet the Bulls never get to use that excuse, injured starter. Aged KD putting 25 pts, 7 rbs, 9 assts on ridiculous shooting is still better than 98% of the league overall. Grayson Allen put up a performance way better than Beal, who played 24 minutes, so banged up Beal seems to mean nothing. And they have Eric Gordon to play big minutes when Beal or Booker are down. They're still considered a top contender for the title on every gambling site, but they're not a good team?

Bulls are the only team that doesn't get a pass for losing a starter for the whole season. Bucks got a pass missing Middleton, and they had Jrue and Giannis. Warriors got a pass when Klay got hurt. Those teams have superior 1A players, and still got passes. Didn't the Warriors get a lottery pick? Not trying to hear how long Ball's injury has been, he's still on our cap, holding us from replacing him.

On another note, watching last night, Zach needs to drive more. He may not be the best passer and needs to tighten his grip, don't think he has big hands. But he and Coby White are the only ones who pressure the defense, Demar settles for jumpers out of most of his isos, Lavine can throw a ton of open passes if they focus on that, he's pretty good at driving. And if he focuses on finishing, you can tell sometimes he's more worried about drawing the foul than scoring, lol.

Do you even know that Devin Booker was selected as an all-nba first team? He's the best player on the Suns. Better than current KD.

Lonzo might be a top-50 player if he's healthy but he's never been an all-star. Comparing all-nba first team (top-10) to top-50 non all-star is just ridiculous. It's not even close.

[R3AL1TY]

The Bulls don't get a pass because the 3 all-stars are still on the court. The Bucks didn't have Lopez for almost an entire season and still won 51 games. Middleton was injured, missed over half the season, and the Bucks had a league-best 58 wins. The Nuggets were missing Murray and Porter and still made the playoffs.

The Bulls don't get any excuses because nobody feels like they deserve any. Losing Lonzo sucks but if Vuc/Zach/DDR aren't good enough to win games without him then there was no point in putting this team together.

What do All Star games from years ago have to do with team importance? Vuc got $20 mill on a new contract, that's not All Star money, that's good sixth man money. Klay would be considered a much higher rated than Draymond, Draymond is easily just as important. I've compared Lonzo to Draymond before, not one of those 3 ALL Stars were as important to the smooth running of the team. And again, the Nuggets and Bucks have MVP players to make up for losing critical players, and those MVP's ran the offense. Bulls don't have a set-up guy. Can call it excuses all you want, but until Lonzo comes off the cap, will be hard to replace that. Getting rid of the other pieces still won't fix that problem. If we had a healthy Lonzo and a injured Derozan or Lavine for the same period of time, this team would be much better, what they can do is more easily replaced.

Again, no one was certain Lonzo was done, hell, they're not certain now, he's not retired. All these great ideas that the Bulls should have just torn it down or traded players assumes Lonzo's not playing right now. We're fans, not doctors, we don't have a better idea of Lonzo's medical condition than any other fan, just opinion.

Interesting the people complaining about the Bulls talent are the ones who want us to lose the most games, like make up your mind what's going to make you happy, when we win or when we lose lol. If they trade all the vets and suck, give up everybody for future picks and expirings, will be real fun in here the next two years winning 20 games a season behind the dynamic duo of Coby White, Patrick Williams, and our new rookies. Isn't our 2024 pick top 4 protected, but against us, like if it's top 4 it conveys?

Many people here could tell that Lonzo wasn't coming back anytime soon. It was easy to see the writing on the wall. Even if Lonzo comes back next year he'll be rusty and most likely won't help the Bulls very much.

If Lonzo's absence (with both not being available and cost to the cap) hurts the team that much maybe it's a good idea to pivot in a new direction?

Last year the team finished in 10th place. They're not even winning when they try and have used future assets to build the team they have right now.

The Bulls have their own 2024 pick, but owe a 2025 to the Spurs (it's top ten protected that year).

Oops, wrong post

[dukeespn]

Some posters I don't even think are watching the games I think they box score watching waiting to see if it's a loss then coming in to spew the rebuild rhetoric smh it's making this place a little unenjoyable smh

Truth is the team actually played pretty good last night. This wasn't some scrub team they were playing this is a team the Suns who have championship aspirations. And we went toe to toe with them and if not for a couple bad turnovers from lavine and especially vuc we would have beat them after being down double digits to them twice.

I'm just saying it's some games to really be down on the team, this not one of them as they showed a lot of fight and if not for a couple bad mistakes would have won it.

The Suns have championship aspiriations because they have a 2022-23 all-nba first team Devin Booker who was NOT playing last night.

Without their best player the Suns really struggled especially when the bench played without KD. Beal played his first game of the season coming off the injury and his plays looked really washed. That was his first game for the Suns too.

What about Mediocre-3. They're now playing together for 3 years. They're just who they are. Even LaVine has entered his 10th season and he's who he is now. The problem is DDR is surely declining and AK also resigned with declining Vuc.

Officiating was on our side too. The Suns players really complained about the uncalled fouls during the game and I thought few were really uncalled fouls.

The Suns bench was terrible and our bench outplayed them. Our bench's defense was really good. Players like Eubanks can't even hand if off properly wasting shot clock for nothing. Eric Gordon shot few forced shots and he missed most of them.

On the other hand Caruso played really well on both ends of the floor coming off the bench. Not only he defended KD well but also his help defense was awesome. That's how the Bulls got to the OT while the starters were outplayed by the Suns starters missing their best player.

[Infinity2152]

Eh, the suns are not good right now. Not without Booker and a banged up Beal and an aged Durant learning to play with Nurkic.

We are what are record says we are: 3-6. .333 winning percentage. I expect we'll be around 25-32 by the New Year and will finish around 35-47 by spring.

Unless we just blow it up, which doesn't seem likely.

The Suns are not good because Booker is out? There's a starter not playing on our team for the whole season named Lonzo Ball. Yet the Bulls never get to use that excuse, injured starter. Aged KD putting 25 pts, 7 rbs, 9 assts on ridiculous shooting is still better than 98% of the league overall. Grayson Allen put up a performance way better than Beal, who played 24 minutes, so banged up Beal seems to mean nothing. And they have Eric Gordon to play big minutes when Beal or Booker are down. They're still considered a top contender for the title on every gambling site, but they're not a good team?

Bulls are the only team that doesn't get a pass for losing a starter for the whole season. Bucks got a pass missing Middleton, and they had Jrue and Giannis. Warriors got a pass when Klay got hurt. Those teams have superior 1A players, and still got passes. Didn't the Warriors get a lottery pick? Not trying to hear how long Ball's injury has been, he's still on our cap, holding us from replacing him.

And I'd 100% disagree he's better than KD. Better at what. Not rebounding or passing. Not defense. Not taller, able to shoot over everyone. Not midrange shooting. Probably not three point shooting. So better how? Faster?

On another note, watching last night, Zach needs to drive more. He may not be the best passer and needs to tighten his grip, don't think he has big hands. But he and Coby White are the only ones who pressure the defense, Demar settles for jumpers out of most of his isos, Lavine can throw a ton of open passes if they focus on that, he's pretty good at driving. And if he focuses on finishing, you can tell sometimes he's more worried about drawing the foul than scoring, lol.

Do you even know that Devin Booker was selected as an all-nba first team? He's the best player on the Suns. Better than current KD.

Lonzo might be a top-50 player if he's healthy but he's never been an all-star. Comparing all-nba first team (top-10) to top-50 non all-star is just ridiculous. It's not even close.

Guess I'll repeat this for the fifth time. Lonzo is not at the level of Devin Booker. His IMPORTANCE to THIS team is probably just as high, even more so. The current Bulls need Lonzo's three point shooting, defense, passing, general basketball IQ, and rebounding, not to mention high number of three point attempts. More than the Suns with KD, Beal and Eric Gordon need Bookers scoring to win. The Suns have at least two other elite scorers. We have no players who can do what Lonzo does, he fills way more needs than just scoring, or even offense period. Booker's out, KD and Bradley Beal are more than enough as primary scorers to win most games, with Gordon as sixth man.

And how is Booker better than KD? Kd's a better rebounder and defender. Just as good a passer and shooter. Taller, far easier for him to get a clean shot. Way tougher matchup. Only advantage Booker has is faster and younger.

[kodo]

When Lonzo was playing the Bulls were the 4th best offensive in the league and 2nd best 3P% team.
Seems like a different era.

Was Lonzo such a superstar that a team can go from 4th to 20th without him? No, but the Bulls went bargain basement in replacing him trying to do it with 2nd rounders like Ayo, vet mins like Beverley, and projects like Coby. They never went out and actually got a decent PG. They also blew too many tradeable assets in acquiring Vuc, and were unwilling to deal Williams back when he had value.

[Infinity2152]

They went bargain basement because they had no money or assets after the injury. They gambled on Lonzo's health and lost. Lonzo's contract prevents us from doing a lot, along with the owners unwillingness to go over the cap. We got an exception we're still not using, could get a legit 6'10 PF. There's no penalty except money until you hit the second apron. A legit replacement for Lonzo like Dejaunte Murray for instance is going to cost 20 mill or more. No legit starting PG was coming here for $10 mill or less.

Plus we picked a PG at 7 (White) and signed Lonzo. Then signed Caruso. And drafted Ayo. That's a pretty heavy investment at one position. You expect a PG you draft at 7 to be at least good, if not great, That's a high pick.

[dukeespn]

The Suns are not good because Booker is out? There's a starter not playing on our team for the whole season named Lonzo Ball. Yet the Bulls never get to use that excuse, injured starter. Aged KD putting 25 pts, 7 rbs, 9 assts on ridiculous shooting is still better than 98% of the league overall. Grayson Allen put up a performance way better than Beal, who played 24 minutes, so banged up Beal seems to mean nothing. And they have Eric Gordon to play big minutes when Beal or Booker are down. They're still considered a top contender for the title on every gambling site, but they're not a good team?

Bulls are the only team that doesn't get a pass for losing a starter for the whole season. Bucks got a pass missing Middleton, and they had Jrue and Giannis. Warriors got a pass when Klay got hurt. Those teams have superior 1A players, and still got passes. Didn't the Warriors get a lottery pick? Not trying to hear how long Ball's injury has been, he's still on our cap, holding us from replacing him.

And I'd 100% disagree he's better than KD. Better at what. Not rebounding or passing. Not defense. Not taller, able to shoot over everyone. Not midrange shooting. Probably not three point shooting. So better how? Faster?

On another note, watching last night, Zach needs to drive more. He may not be the best passer and needs to tighten his grip, don't think he has big hands. But he and Coby White are the only ones who pressure the defense, Demar settles for jumpers out of most of his isos, Lavine can throw a ton of open passes if they focus on that, he's pretty good at driving. And if he focuses on finishing, you can tell sometimes he's more worried about drawing the foul than scoring, lol.

Do you even know that Devin Booker was selected as an all-nba first team? He's the best player on the Suns. Better than current KD.

Lonzo might be a top-50 player if he's healthy but he's never been an all-star. Comparing all-nba first team (top-10) to top-50 non all-star is just ridiculous. It's not even close.

Guess I'll repeat this for the fifth time. Lonzo is not at the level of Devin Booker. His IMPORTANCE to THIS team is probably just as high, even more so. The current Bulls need Lonzo's three point shooting, defense, passing, general basketball IQ, and rebounding, not to mention high number of three point attempts. More than the Suns with KD, Beal and Eric Gordon need Bookers scoring to win. The Suns have at least two other elite scorers. We have no players who can do what Lonzo does, he fills way more needs than just scoring, or even offense period. Booker's out, KD and Bradley Beal are more than enough as primary scorers to win most games, with Gordon as sixth man.

And how is Booker better than KD? Kd's a better rebounder and defender. Just as good a passer and shooter. Taller, far easier for him to get a clean shot. Way tougher matchup. Only advantage Booker has is faster and younger.

Do you watch actual games? Beal played his first game for the Suns coming off the injury and his plays were really rusty. He even hesitated whether to attack weak Coby. Eric Gordon was terrible shooting 1-9 from the field with 3 turnovers and that's one of the reasons why the Bulls bench outplayed the opposing bench. The Suns desperately needed someone to create his own shots

They're not just missing a scorer. They're missing the all-nba first team scorer who's the best player on the team right now. You really don't watch recent basketball, do you? Not only Devin Booker was selected as an all-nba first team last season but also he was the monster scorer against the championship team in the last playoffs.

Lonzo was very important for the Bulls but I think his presence is getting really overrated at this moment. Do you even know that the Bulls scored with better efficiency when Lonzo was off the court in 2021-22 season? OFC the Bulls really need his defense and defense-to-offense and 3-pointers blah blah blah. But he was not the one who could create on half court. Every single metric indicates his offensive contribution was NOT ELITE as some described. It's mostly his marvelous defense that made him top-50 player. Still he's never been an all-star and it's ridiculous to compare an all-nba first team to a non all-star.

[dukeespn]

When Lonzo was playing the Bulls were the 4th best offensive in the league and 2nd best 3P% team.
Seems like a different era.

Was Lonzo such a superstar that a team can go from 4th to 20th without him? No, but the Bulls went bargain basement in replacing him trying to do it with 2nd rounders like Ayo, vet mins like Beverley, and projects like Coby. They never went out and actually got a decent PG. They also blew too many tradeable assets in acquiring Vuc, and were unwilling to deal Williams back when he had value.

In 2021-22 season

when Lonzo was on the court
OffRtg : 112.072
when Lonzo was off the court
OffRtg : 114.535

Lonzo played most of our early easy schedule games while the others played against much harder competition after Lonzo got hurt. And yet the Bulls' offensive rating was better when Lonzo was off the court. People really forgot quickly how great DDR was offensively in 2021-22 season. OFC Lonzo helped the Bulls with his defense-to-offense transition and 3-pointers but the main offensive force was DDR who played his best regular season for his whole career.

when DDR was on the court
OffRtg : 115.947
when DDR was off the court
OffRtg : 108.851

Plus even when Lonzo was healthy the Bulls got crushed against good-to-great competitions. They were what 2-20 against top competitions in 2021-22 season and Lonzo was also responsible for some games too.

Losing Lonzo is definitely devastating but at this moment I think his overall impact on winning is really overrated. Especially on offensive end.

[Infinity2152]

Okay Beal played bad. He's a 25-30 pts scorer. Grayson Allen made all his baskets and then some. Gordon's a better shooter than that. Are you really saying they're not great scorers because they had bad shooting nights?? They had two guys who almost had triple doubles, they did not DESPERATELY need someone to create his own shots, they got a TON of assists. Only way our bench outplayed their bench is if Grayson Allen is a starter. Allen had 26, 8, and 4 with 8 3pt'ers. That's Booker level stats. Did you watch the game??

You're talking about recent basketball when KD just put up 25, 9 and 7 on 16 shot attempts. Going against Caruso mostly who played GREAT defense. Seriously doubt Book would have had more success scoring on him, and he definitely would not have the rebounds. You keep talking about not watching the games, all these guys can score 30 with ease, do you not know who Beal an KD are?? Booker's been playing with Chris Paul, Mikal Bridges and Ayton, don't act like he's been carrying a scrub team, he's been scoring off one of the elite playmakers of all time, a very unselfish and good Mikal Bridges and a young 18 and 11 Deandre Ayton.

Then you act like defense is not HALF the entire game. Lonzo is 6'7", his help defense and length was incredbly important, as much as his on ball defense. You say watch the games, stop using metrics and watch the games. The Bulls very clearly flowed way better offensively when Lonzo was on the floor. It's painfully obvious. More three point shots. They rebounded better. Defended better.
Way less iso ball play, more team ball. Makes it seem like you only look at stats, but when you want to. Cause KD and Beal's stats are very similar or better than Booker, who you think is in another league.

And Lonzo was in his first year with the Bulls!!! No time to get chemistry, learn the guy's favorite spots, things PG's do. Stop acting like he wasn't young and getting better every year. The expectation would be that we would have a far better, more experienced Lonzo at this point, not the just learning Donovan's offense with a bunch of new guys Lonzo. He was getting better every year till he got hurt. How old was he, 24? That first year with us was his floor, not his ceiling.

[dukeespn]

Okay Beal played bad. He's a 25-30 pts scorer. Grayson Allen made all his baskets and then some. Gordon's a better shooter than that. Are you really saying they're not great scorers because they had bad shooting nights?? They had two guys who almost had triple doubles, they did not DESPERATELY need someone to create his own shots, they got a TON of assists. Only way our bench outplayed their bench is if Grayson Allen is a starter. Allen had 26, 8, and 4 with 8 3pt'ers. That's Booker level stats. Did you watch the game??

You're talking about recent basketball when KD just put up 25, 9 and 7 on 16 shot attempts. Going against Caruso mostly who played GREAT defense. Seriously doubt Book would have had more success scoring on him, and he definitely would not have the rebounds. You keep talking about not watching the games, all these guys can score 30 with ease, do you not know who Beal an KD are?? Booker's been playing with Chris Paul, Mikal Bridges and Ayton, don't act like he's been carrying a scrub team, he's been scoring off one of the elite playmakers of all time, a very unselfish and good Mikal Bridges and a young 18 and 11 Deandre Ayton.

Then you act like defense is not HALF the entire game. Lonzo is 6'7", his help defense and length was incredbly important, as much as his on ball defense. You say watch the games, stop using metrics and watch the games. The Bulls very clearly flowed way better offensively when Lonzo was on the floor. It's painfully obvious. More three point shots. They rebounded better. Defended better.
Way less iso ball play, more team ball. Makes it seem like you only look at stats, but when you want to. Cause KD and Beal's stats are very similar or better than Booker, who you think is in another league.

You really don't know what creating his own shots means, do you? It DOES MEAN YOU MAKE SHOTS WITHOUT BEING ASSISTED. And yet you said they god a TON of assists? What are you talking about?

"Makes it seem like you only look at stats, but when you want to. Cause KD and Beal's stats are very similar or better than Booker, who you think is in another league."

Please go to other forums arguing KD and Beal has better stats OR they're better than Booker LMFAO.

Yeah Lonzo helped the team when he was healthy and yet the Bulls got crushed against good competitions even when he was healthy. What I said is Lonzo definitely helped the team but his overall impact on winning is overrated. Healthy Lonzo is not a savior.

[Infinity2152]

If you're getting a ton of assisted baskets, then why do you DESPERATELY need someone to create his own shot? What are you talking about? If you have one, you don't desperately need the other. Common sense right? As long as you're scoring, there's only one basketball. They had kick out open threes all night, why would they desperately need someone to iso. Even though KD did that fairly often.

You go to other forums and prove Bookers stats are substantially better than KD. By virtually any metric. You can even just use offense, since KD's CLEARLY a better defender and rebounder. How about last seasons per game stats? KD about 28 pts, 5 assist, 6 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, 56% from the field, 40% 3pt, 90% free throw vs Booker 28 pts, 5.5 assists, 4.5 rebounds, .3 blocks, 49% from the field, 35% 3 pt, 86% free throw. Oh wait, I just proved it in here. Only reason KD wasn't first team was because he missed too many games to injury, like Booker is right now. There's no foundation for your argument other than an award, LMFAO! Like KD's not an All Star every year he's not hurt.

Healthy Lonzo was 24. How many players are at their best at 24? Never said he was a savior, specifically said he's not as good as Booker. You're arguing to argue. The Bulls record and play without Lonzo versus with Lonzo show his importance. They get crushed against bad competition without him.

Also said it's more than just Lonzo the player, it's the $20 mill. Name one team that's below the cap with a $20 mill dead weight player and is doing well in the NBA. If there's one, it's extremely rare.

[Red8911]

I'm not sure people realize how much Demar has declined from his first 100 or so games in Chicago, when he was legit one of the 20 best players in the league and arguably a top 5 scorer.

It's a helluva lot harder to win with an average starting player in Demar (which is what he's been for a while now) than with an All Star level Demar. Given his age, that elite version is not likely to show up too often.

Continuity works a a helluva lot better with guys that are on the other side of 30.

Even if Demar declined he’s still currently the best bulls player and go to guy.

[R3AL1TY]

No hope, no change unless the FO make moves where Vuc/Zach/DDR are moved for draft picks, young players with potential, and cap space for free agency.

Who are you spending the free agent money on? What major free agent is coming to a team with Coby, Pwill, Caruso, a couple MLE players, and mid first round rookies and picks?

We already have young players with so-called potential. A couple with actual proven talent would be nice.

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Next summer will have a number of B level and solid role players like Siakam, Hield, Dinwiddie, Monk, and Oubre.
Summer 2025 will have various big names they need to try to seek after like Donovan Mitchell if he opts out and Paul George or they can grab another B level player like OG or Ingram.

I would even give young guys with scoring potential but are limited due to little playing time a shot like Moses Moody and Jalen Hardy if their current teams won't keep them.

[Stratmaster]

Zach was responsible for at least 6 wide open 3s.

He also had two costly turnovers in the last two mins.

He is only a winning player if he plays as a shooter but Billy won’t run him off any screens and when Zach does get the ball he dribbled into a tough contested 3 instead of shooting the open/lightly contested 3.

Lavine had 1 turnover in q4 and OT (:45 Q4). I just triple checked it.

What about Demar's turnover at 1:11 of q4?

Coby at 4:48 of the OT.

Coby again at 1:46 of OT

Caruso had 1 down the stretch also.

But what you saw as a negative was 8 assist, 8 rebounds, 22 points on 13 shots Zach Lavine.





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I just checked. He had two turnovers. Rewatch. Play by play may have messed up.

Zach’s D was awful. Wide open 3s all game.

He played a good floor game until crunch time. Normal for him.

He’s a max player. He has to be better. I am also over critical of him because he makes everything so much harder. If he simply played as a shooter and Bilkybran screens for him he would be incredible. Like crazy good. Instead he pump fakes out of good shots in the flow of the game to dribble around and take contested shots… that he does make but he could make way more at a higher clip.

He has the one where the ball slipped out of his hands going to the rim and it bounced off his knee.

He had a shot blocked.

What was the other turnover?

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