2023-2024 Regular Season Game 8: Atlanta Hawks (4-3) vs. Orlando Magic (4-3) in Mexico City - 9:30pm

[thelead]

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[ChosenSavior]

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[Rainwater]

Wasn’t going to say the quiet part out loud but… Fultz.

What is he doing on offense if we are expecting a 3 and the action is getting Paolo the ball?

Why is it that we have Isaac taking heavily contested shots in crunch time over literally any other option than Fultz?

Paolo isn’t reliable enough from 3 yet to just put the game on the line open or not.

And back to what can be found in a zillion other threads.. why is Paolo’s first option running into dudes trying to pick up fouls on the charge? No play is run. There’s no point guard running **** with him.

I mean... no?

The Paolo charge play is the only time the Magic actually tried to run a "play" - or at least something that wasn't a straight iso against a switch mismatch.

Fultz rushed the ball up the court off a missed free throw and they tried a quick (20 on the shotclock) dribble hand off against a not set defense to get Paolo the ball on the move going downhill.

Johnson defended it perfectly and Paolo quite frankly was just too slow to react to Johnson being in proper position. He didn't have to blast into him with that much on the shot clock. He could have turned it into one of those midpost looks he scored on earlier in the quarter. He could have backed the ball out and reset to a different action.

I disagree I watched that last shot that Paolo took and that looked like a designed shot for Paolo. If you watch Paolo walk down the court he calls out the play. After Fultz hands the ball to Franz, Fultz and Paolo then talk about positioning on the court. And if you watch Fultz he tries to set an off ball screen on Jalen Johnson to get Paolo open for the drive and kick from Franz. Paolo just missed the shot.

Honestly, it would have been better if they did go iso and let Paolo do his thing and drive.

[SOUL]

Hezonja legit had a bag and his shot looked like it should go in.. it just.. never clicked

[KillMonger]

At least with AB even though he's a rookie...he gets the ball kicked to him, if his feet are set he's going to shoot it make or miss....the confidence to take the shot is half the battle man

[drsd]

Box score thoughts:

Orlando lost the FG% and lost the game
Orlando dominated the offensive glass: 18 to 8. That led to 5 extra FG attempts
The Magic had a horrible 19 TOs

And the anomaly: F-Wagner was -16 and Ingles was +27. That's a 43 point spread between Orlando's starting and sub SF. Weird.

This is actually the weirdest anomaly I can recall as Ingles +27 was from a 1-6 shooting line on 3 points scored on only 18 minutes of court time. How is that possible?

Okeke actually lowered his sub-10 PER in his two minutes of court time. Sad.

[drsd]

The beauty of this thing is the Magic are in a position where they could make a consolidation trade that gets them a higher end starter/rotation player *and* get Black and Jett more minutes at the same time.

Of course I don’t anticipate them doing anything until at least December or January, if not closer to the trade deadline.

I really feel like this summer was a lost opportunity. But at least the Magic didn't trade Fultz for VanVleet.

If the Magic is hovering around 50% just before the ASW, there is a chance for management to do the right thing and consolidate. There are a lot of assets on this roster that can be offered to a team trying to unload a player that is keeping them from tanking. This is the year for Orlando to make that sort of trade. We will all argue forever if that should be at the PG or SG slot; for me that's not he point. The point is that the Magic needs some sort of consolidations: this season. Stop waiting.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Just finished watching the game, what a freaking infuriating loss.

First off the tv production was terrible. I hope if David Steele ever does retire, we look for someone with experience. Because Dante seems so amateur. And The clock was never right on the scoreboard, and the whole **** went down for final play. Unacceptable. The instant replays looked in slow motion and bad angles. Tv production was just terrible. On top of that, i thought the court was distracting with all that stuff on it.

I really wish Paolo would step it up in crunch time. I dont remember him ever having a clutch moment and that's concerning. He made bad plays on both sides in closing minutes.

This stretch might be one of the worst stretches Franz ever had. That running hook was sweet though. But hard to win when your best players arent playing well.

Ive been a Fultz fan since he got here, the shot was always concerning but always thought he did enough to justify his shot but so far, he has seriously regressed this year. I dont see how we bring him back next year and am ready to move on.

Also i wonder if we need to start looking for another center. If wendell is going to be out after December. I dont know if we can sustain. I think Goga is good if they have a low post player because he plays good d down low. But last couple games, hes missed so many gimme's. I definitely see why Moe is ahead of him on depth chart.

AB is impressing me but would like to see him do something off the dribble. He hasnt broke down anyone on the dribble or even drive to basket with the ball yet. Is his handle not good or is he not confident? Hes going to need to do that to replace Fultz.

[p0peye]

Someone have some quick thoughts on fultz overall?.....i'm feeling kinda strange about him and i need to hear another point of view

He's terrible. Significantly worse than last year even.

He can still attack and make layups, but his 3PT and FT rates have both bottomed out and they were both already poor to begin with.

On top of that, last year he could carry the team for short stretches at times with his ability to dribble his way into midrange jumpers and right now that's completely gone too.

He's just out there getting in the way for the most part.

Drafting Black made his TOS much worse.

[p0peye]

Box score thoughts:

Orlando lost the FG% and lost the game
Orlando dominated the offensive glass: 18 to 8. That led to 5 extra FG attempts
The Magic had a horrible 19 TOs

And the anomaly: F-Wagner was -16 and Ingles was +27. That's a 43 point spread between Orlando's starting and sub SF. Weird.

This is actually the weirdest anomaly I can recall as Ingles +27 was from a 1-6 shooting line on 3 points scored on only 18 minutes of court time. How is that possible?

Okeke actually lowered his sub-10 PER in his two minutes of court time. Sad.

Plus/minus indicates what opponent lineup is doing on the court, too. So, if they have poor defensive lineup and you're in the game with guys that can score, you end up with great +/- even though you yourself didn't doo much to deserve that. It is a metric measuring the difference between two lineups. Player breakdown probably has some meaning on a large sample.

[Ralof]

he seems to be holding back Paolo and Franz from learning lessons they will eventually need to learn.

[GelbeWand09]

The beauty of this thing is the Magic are in a position where they could make a consolidation trade that gets them a higher end starter/rotation player *and* get Black and Jett more minutes at the same time.

Of course I don’t anticipate them doing anything until at least December or January, if not closer to the trade deadline.

I really feel like this summer was a lost opportunity. But at least the Magic didn't trade Fultz for VanVleet.

If the Magic is hovering around 50% just before the ASW, there is a chance for management to do the right thing and consolidate. There are a lot of assets on this roster that can be offered to a team trying to unload a player that is keeping them from tanking. This is the year for Orlando to make that sort of trade. We will all argue forever if that should be at the PG or SG slot; for me that's not he point. The point is that the Magic needs some sort of consolidations: this season. Stop waiting.

Yea at last we didnt trade for a perfect fit PG who isnt even 30, who can spread the floor, defend, playmake but still can play off the ball to keep the usage high for Paolo & Franz. Instead of the the worst possible PG you can have for Paolo, who cant run a simple Pick n Roll or spread the floor for him. At least we can sign the next washed up, almost out of the leaque vets for that money next year instead, like we've done for the last 10 years.

[shadrock]

Not even upset to be honest. This team needs to go through some growing pains before they become great. The signs are so good when this team is on fire though. The closing out games bit will come in time.

[drsd]

Not even upset to be honest. This team needs to go through some growing pains before they become great. The signs are so good when this team is on fire though. The closing out games bit will come in time.

ANd-1

This is the reason to NOT blowup the roster. The core of this roster must learn how to win games close to claw a playoff slot (i.e. the @Utah win). And only then should the team push chips in.

That said: upgrading either the PG or the SG slot to ensure a slot in the 6-8 seed range makes sense to me.

[pepe1991]

Scoring graphic made 1 error per posession
Even video & sound lost sinc at one point

[AKAGoMagic15]

Always enjoy reading your guys’ thoughts post-game. I am a Fultz believer and I will admit that I was holding out hope for him improving either his 3 pt shot or his FT rate this season.

We need to trade him NOW. Seeing Black start and perform in his absence is all I needed to see. I don’t expect to receive value back, but I will not continue to make life harder for my two star wings (who will have ups and downs regardless). I don’t see how we can wait until January or later to make moves. This season must be salvaged right now. This is a solid team, but the time to make changes is now, now when we are 5-10 games under .500. Just my thoughts.

[zuppafly]

Saw the game this morning.
What a bad loss. The Hawks always seemed to be the team that could pick it up at any point while our team seems to have to rely on hustle to get some kind of lead that then evaporates as soon as the other team picks up shooting. And that happens because we cannot freaking shoot the ball.

I kept hoping for Fultz, but when he went back in the game late in the 4th and we sat Cole and Black, it became clear we were worse. And that says a lot because Cole is a shoot first guard and Black is a rookie who can't yet run the offense. But it has to be more than clear to the FO that the trade we're looking for is Fultz + something in return of a shooter in the wing/guard position.

[zuppafly]

Also, it's pretty clear that Franz has tired legs from the summer he went through, and Paolo needs still has to evolve on crunch situations where he has the physical tools to allow him better decisions. Those are the growing pains I'm ok with, as it'll come with time and experience.

[KillMonger]

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[SloNick Russia]

While we are on the subject of bad guard play, thought Cole was horrendous tonight. When he doesn't got it going offensively, his bad defense really stands out.

True, if Cole was at his average production we would probably win. Franz was very bad as well. Paolo was sub par at best, his TO numbers lately are terrible. And there is a reason why he is left open on those 3s at the end of games.
Definetely got some extra juice from Suggs on offense, just not enough for a win.
And do something with FT already, its beyond terrible. Mosley has to add FT drills to every practice until we are back to last year number, this crap costs us wins.