Breaking: Obi toppin traded to indiana

[Richard4444]

We could have had Haliburton........

You can do that in every draft. Obi is obviously a huge disappointment for where he was drafted. But we also could have had Mitchell instead of Frank, Bridges instead of Knox, etc.

If Obi was taken as high as he was because he was represented by Rose's kid, that would be an issue. If the Kentucky / CAA thing is a factor, that would also be an issue.

I don't tend to watch college basketball so every draft I go in with no idea who any of these players are. But management is supposed to know who they are and make accurate evaluations of their motor, work ethic, etc.

In this draft, we were desperate for a PG, Haliburton was a consensus Top 8 pick (https://theathletic.com/2200224/2020/11/17/nba-draft-big-board/ https://www.nba.com/news/2020-consensus-mock-draft), we did not need a PF, and Obi had a lot of red flags (old, not great 3pt shooter and weak defender).

[TKKnicks1]

We could have had Haliburton........

You can do that in every draft. Obi is obviously a huge disappointment for where he was drafted. But we also could have had Mitchell instead of Frank, Bridges instead of Knox, etc.

If Obi was taken as high as he was because he was represented by Rose's kid, that would be an issue. If the Kentucky / CAA thing is a factor, that would also be an issue.

I don't tend to watch college basketball so every draft I go in with no idea who any of these players are. But management is supposed to know who they are and make accurate evaluations of their motor, work ethic, etc.

In this draft, we were desperate for a PG, Haliburton was a consensus Top 8 pick (https://theathletic.com/2200224/2020/11/17/nba-draft-big-board/ https://www.nba.com/news/2020-consensus-mock-draft), we did not need a PF, and Obi had a lot of red flags (old, not great 3pt shooter and weak defender).

It was almost comical to a point. Flashing on the bottom of the TV screen -

Knicks needs: PG. Floor General.
Left on the board: Haliburton - PG - Great Vision. Play Maker.

With the 8th pick in the 2020 draft, the Knicks select....

You can't make this ish up. Haliburton was given to us on a silver platter and we thought a backup PF to Randle was more important than drafting for a position that we severely lacked for years.

[Jalen Bluntson]

You can do that in every draft. Obi is obviously a huge disappointment for where he was drafted. But we also could have had Mitchell instead of Frank, Bridges instead of Knox, etc.

If Obi was taken as high as he was because he was represented by Rose's kid, that would be an issue. If the Kentucky / CAA thing is a factor, that would also be an issue.

I don't tend to watch college basketball so every draft I go in with no idea who any of these players are. But management is supposed to know who they are and make accurate evaluations of their motor, work ethic, etc.

In this draft, we were desperate for a PG, Haliburton was a consensus Top 8 pick (https://theathletic.com/2200224/2020/11/17/nba-draft-big-board/ https://www.nba.com/news/2020-consensus-mock-draft), we did not need a PF, and Obi had a lot of red flags (old, not great 3pt shooter and weak defender).

It was almost comical to a point. Flashing on the bottom of the TV screen -

Knicks needs: PG. Floor General.
Left on the board: Haliburton - PG - Great Vision. Play Maker.

With the 8th pick in the 2020 draft, the Knicks select....

You can't make this ish up. Haliburton was given to us on a silver platter and we thought a backup PF to Randle was more important than drafting for a position that we severely lacked for years.

Made no sense at all to take Obi. The fact that there were rumors the Knicks wanted to trade up to get him makes it even worse. The entire situation is a failure. We turned the #8 pick in the draft into two second round picks!!

[Reign23]

they had the intention to give up on Randle when they drafted Obi in the lottery. but then they did not find a deal, Randle became good and we couldn't ever give Obi enough playing time. THIS is the **** you can't make up

[duetta]

In hindsight, the Obi pick was an epic fail. Heck, we could have traded down for multiple picks.

I assume that the plan was to move on from Randle - but then the plan got thrown out the window once Thibs got here and Randle began to thrive.

At this point, there is no sugarcoating this pick (particularly since the trade that sent him out left us without a backup power forward, leaving the team completely vulnerable to a Randle injury)

[spree2kawhi]

In hindsight, the Obi pick was an epic fail. Heck, we could have traded down for multiple picks.

I assume that the plan was to move on from Randle - but then the plan got thrown out the window once Thibs got here and Randle began to thrive.

At this point, there is no sugarcoating this pick (particularly since the trade that sent him out left us without a backup power forward, leaving the team completely vulnerable to a Randle injury)

Or simply vulnerable to Randle…

[Oscirus]

people seem to forget randle was having an off year when obi was drafted and at the team, obi was considered a steal at 8 hell he was projected to go at 3 in some drafts

[Chanel Bomber]

Haliburton was the best prospect in that draft.

He always projected as a better NBA player than Obi. It was not even close.

Consensus gets constantly proven wrong, so wherever these players are mocked means very little. Not just in hindsight, but also as the draft process unfolds.

Passing on Hali was a franchise-altering blunder. Not jumping on the opportunity when Sacramento made him available was the icing on the cake.

[rajajackal]

Haliburton was the best prospect in that draft.

He always projected as a better NBA player than Obi. It was not even close.

Consensus gets constantly proven wrong, so wherever these players are mocked means very little. Not just in hindsight, but also as the draft process unfolds.

Passing on Hali was a franchise-altering blunder. Not jumping on the opportunity when Sacramento made him available was the icing on the cake.

i was team hali going into the draft and in hindsight it remains the right pick in a vacuum. but clearly our FO knew brunson was their PG from the moment they signed on, so it is what it is. extending randle early will always be the definitive blunder if there's one to rehash. could've kept him on his expiring year and used the value he accrued to make a meaningful trade

[Oscirus]

Haliburton was the best prospect in that draft.

He always projected as a better NBA player than Obi. It was not even close.

Consensus gets constantly proven wrong, so wherever these players are mocked means very little. Not just in hindsight, but also as the draft process unfolds.

Passing on Hali was a franchise-altering blunder. Not jumping on the opportunity when Sacramento made him available was the icing on the cake.

Not really. He's considered a better prospect with hindsight but at the time, there were plenty of questions about his game.

As for when the Kings made him available, who did the Knicks have to offer that was better than Sabonis?

[Chanel Bomber]

Haliburton was the best prospect in that draft.

He always projected as a better NBA player than Obi. It was not even close.

Consensus gets constantly proven wrong, so wherever these players are mocked means very little. Not just in hindsight, but also as the draft process unfolds.

Passing on Hali was a franchise-altering blunder. Not jumping on the opportunity when Sacramento made him available was the icing on the cake.

i was team hali going into the draft and in hindsight it remains the right pick in a vacuum. but clearly our FO knew brunson was their PG from the moment they signed on, so it is what it is. extending randle early will always be the definitive blunder if there's one to rehash. could've kept him on his expiring year and used the value he accrued to make a meaningful trade

Brunson was two years away, and he could've easily extended with Dallas if they hadn't lowballed him, so I don't really buy that. Plus those two could play together.

There was no upside to moving Randle higher than drafting Hali. Except for trading Randle and other pieces for Hali, I suppose.

[robillionaire]

Haliburton was the best prospect in that draft.

He always projected as a better NBA player than Obi. It was not even close.

Consensus gets constantly proven wrong, so wherever these players are mocked means very little. Not just in hindsight, but also as the draft process unfolds.

Passing on Hali was a franchise-altering blunder. Not jumping on the opportunity when Sacramento made him available was the icing on the cake.

Not really. He's considered a better prospect with hindsight but at the time, there were plenty of questions about his game.

As for when the Kings made him available, who did the Knicks have to offer that was better than Sabonis?

I think a better question would be even if the Knicks drafted him if wouldn’t have just buried him or traded him for sabonis themselves. Hard to envision a rookie PG actually surviving here

We drafted IQ in the same draft who has shown flashes of being an elite 2 way pg with insane stats and advanced stats in his limited starts at pg and we keep him buried on the bench and are about to just let him leave, this is just what we do here

[Chanel Bomber]

Haliburton was the best prospect in that draft.

He always projected as a better NBA player than Obi. It was not even close.

Consensus gets constantly proven wrong, so wherever these players are mocked means very little. Not just in hindsight, but also as the draft process unfolds.

Passing on Hali was a franchise-altering blunder. Not jumping on the opportunity when Sacramento made him available was the icing on the cake.

Not really. He's considered a better prospect with hindsight but at the time, there were plenty of questions about his game.

As for when the Kings made him available, who did the Knicks have to offer that was better than Sabonis?

It's always subjective. I considered him a much better prospect than Obi, so did a few other people. Not everybody agrees. There's nothing objective about the predominant opinion (i.e., mocks).

Realistically, it was clear that Obi was a tweener without a position in the NBA. It was undeniable that Haliburton was a highly efficient guard with flashes of creative genius and a massive upside.

I said then the Knicks should offer Randle, RJ, Obi and if needed picks for Haliburton. There's no way to know whether they'd have accepted this offer, but I think it'd been at the very least in the same ballpark of what they were looking for.

[Oscirus]

Haliburton was the best prospect in that draft.

He always projected as a better NBA player than Obi. It was not even close.

Consensus gets constantly proven wrong, so wherever these players are mocked means very little. Not just in hindsight, but also as the draft process unfolds.

Passing on Hali was a franchise-altering blunder. Not jumping on the opportunity when Sacramento made him available was the icing on the cake.

Not really. He's considered a better prospect with hindsight but at the time, there were plenty of questions about his game.

As for when the Kings made him available, who did the Knicks have to offer that was better than Sabonis?

I think a better question would be even if the Knicks drafted him if wouldn’t have just buried him or traded him for sabonis themselves. Hard to envision a rookie PG actually surviving here

We drafted IQ in the same draft who has shown flashes of being an elite 2 way pg with insane stats and advanced stats in his limited starts at pg and we keep him buried on the bench and are about to just let him leave, this is just what we do here

True, I mean grimes is the reason we don't currently have Mitchell and he cant find the court at the moment despite being a starter and probably our best perimeter defender.

[Oscirus]

Haliburton was the best prospect in that draft.

He always projected as a better NBA player than Obi. It was not even close.

Consensus gets constantly proven wrong, so wherever these players are mocked means very little. Not just in hindsight, but also as the draft process unfolds.

Passing on Hali was a franchise-altering blunder. Not jumping on the opportunity when Sacramento made him available was the icing on the cake.

Not really. He's considered a better prospect with hindsight but at the time, there were plenty of questions about his game.

As for when the Kings made him available, who did the Knicks have to offer that was better than Sabonis?

It's always subjective. I considered him a much better prospect than Obi, so did a few other people. Not everybody agrees. There's nothing objective about the predominant opinion (i.e., mocks).

Realistically, it was clear that Obi was a tweener without a position in the NBA. It was undeniable that Haliburton was a highly efficient guard with flashes of creative genius and a massive upside.

I said then the Knicks should offer Randle, RJ, Obi and if needed picks for Haliburton. There's no way to know whether they'd have accepted this offer, but I think it'd been at the very least in the same ballpark of what they were looking for.

fair enough in regards to the mocks.

However, there were huge questions about the way that Haliburton was shooting and whether he would be able to get said shot off at the NBA level.

That's an insane offer for an up-and-comer who wasn't even top 20 at the time. We'd be killing all of our flexibility to be building around someone we'd have no business building around. He's a good supplementary piece, but if he's your one, you're probably not even a playoff team.

[rajajackal]

Haliburton was the best prospect in that draft.

He always projected as a better NBA player than Obi. It was not even close.

Consensus gets constantly proven wrong, so wherever these players are mocked means very little. Not just in hindsight, but also as the draft process unfolds.

Passing on Hali was a franchise-altering blunder. Not jumping on the opportunity when Sacramento made him available was the icing on the cake.

i was team hali going into the draft and in hindsight it remains the right pick in a vacuum. but clearly our FO knew brunson was their PG from the moment they signed on, so it is what it is. extending randle early will always be the definitive blunder if there's one to rehash. could've kept him on his expiring year and used the value he accrued to make a meaningful trade

Brunson was two years away, and he could've easily extended with Dallas if they hadn't lowballed him, so I don't really buy that. Plus those two could play together.

There was no upside to moving Randle higher than drafting Hali. Except for trading Randle and other pieces for Hali, I suppose.

we didn't have to trade anything for hali, and i agree we should have drafted him. but i disagree that leon didn't intend on bringing brunson in 2 years out. if anything, the brunson godfather situation makes passing on hali make at least a shred of sense

[Chanel Bomber]

Not really. He's considered a better prospect with hindsight but at the time, there were plenty of questions about his game.

As for when the Kings made him available, who did the Knicks have to offer that was better than Sabonis?

It's always subjective. I considered him a much better prospect than Obi, so did a few other people. Not everybody agrees. There's nothing objective about the predominant opinion (i.e., mocks).

Realistically, it was clear that Obi was a tweener without a position in the NBA. It was undeniable that Haliburton was a highly efficient guard with flashes of creative genius and a massive upside.

I said then the Knicks should offer Randle, RJ, Obi and if needed picks for Haliburton. There's no way to know whether they'd have accepted this offer, but I think it'd been at the very least in the same ballpark of what they were looking for.

fair enough in regards to the mocks.

However, there were huge questions about the way that Haliburton was shooting and whether he would be able to get said shot off at the NBA level.

That's an insane offer for an up-and-comer who wasn't even top 20 at the time. We'd be killing all of our flexibility to be building around someone we'd have no business building around. He's a good supplementary piece, but if he's your one, you're probably not even a playoff team.

I think he's a superstar in the making. It was the James Harden trade of this decade. I think this proposal was a no-brainer then and even moreso in hindsight.

Early days but the Pacers are 6-3 with a solid +4.5 net rating despite a pretty mediocre roster. We'll see where they end up but he may be on track to carry this team to the postseason.

I would've understood those concerns about the form if Hali were inefficient in college, or if he lacked size, but I don't think those concerns were justified. His release is really quick, which compensates the low release point.

[Chanel Bomber]

i was team hali going into the draft and in hindsight it remains the right pick in a vacuum. but clearly our FO knew brunson was their PG from the moment they signed on, so it is what it is. extending randle early will always be the definitive blunder if there's one to rehash. could've kept him on his expiring year and used the value he accrued to make a meaningful trade

Brunson was two years away, and he could've easily extended with Dallas if they hadn't lowballed him, so I don't really buy that. Plus those two could play together.

There was no upside to moving Randle higher than drafting Hali. Except for trading Randle and other pieces for Hali, I suppose.

we didn't have to trade anything for hali, and i agree we should have drafted him. but i disagree that leon didn't intend on bringing brunson in 2 years out. if anything, the brunson godfather situation makes passing on hali make at least a shred of sense

The Knicks were not in control of their destiny with Brunson. He would have resigned in Dallas if they hadn't refused to offer him an extension and then lowballed him. His camp was seeking an extension.

So I really don't buy that this was part of some masterplan where Leon knew Brunson was going to become his point guard. I think they just made a blunder in the draft by going with the conservative (and also more "exciting") choice in Obi, the NCAA player of the year.

[Capn'O]

I supported drafting Toppin but I could've sworn he was bigger. The first time I saw him vs NBA competition I was like "That's him? ****." It was immediately clear he wouldn't have the same advantages he had in college. At this level, inches and pounds matter. With Amar'e's size he would be lethal. No, he doesn't have Amar'e's range of movement but he's a better passer. He'd have been really good if he could overpower guys.

So Obi fooled me once but we were right to move on PROVIDED WE FOUND A REPLACEMENT.

[Chanel Bomber]

I supported drafting Toppin but I could've sworn he was bigger. The first time I saw him vs NBA competition I was like "That's him? ****." It was immediately clear he wouldn't have the same advantages he had in college. At this level, inches and pounds matter. With Amar'e's size he would be lethal. No, he doesn't have Amar'e's range of movement but he's a better passer. He'd have been really good if he could overpower guys.

So Obi fooled me once but we were right to move on PROVIDED WE FOUND A REPLACEMENT.

Obi had a few things going against him.

The size as you said, but also the high center of gravity, the lack of strength (for his profile), and the lack of lateral quickness.

Amar'e was incredibly strong. He also had a lightning quick first step, which made him a threat in face-up situations and gave him space to take that jumper. Obi really can't do anything one-on-one in the NBA.

Obi's either an undersized center who can't rebound or defend, or a 4 who doesn't space the floor, provide on-ball skills or defend.

He's really a back-up. A good one.