2023-2024 Official Around the NBA Discussion Thread

[drsd]

Jordan Poole was cought watching porn in lockerroom. So...he also can't score outside court.

This reminds me of the joke in 1989:
the foster child asked to be adopted by the Magic because, "they don't beat anybody".

..

[ogmagicfan]

FVV is averaging 8.2 apg with only 1.8 TO per game

Pretty ridiculous how there were actual debates about how Fultz was a "better passer" than him

1) He is also shooting 36.4 with his 2ball on a bad 46.6% eFG.
2) He is making 40,000,000.00 this year to be a sub 15-PER player.

That is: Houston is paying a player 40 million dollars this year who is not a league average starting PG. I am ok with him not being in Magic blue.

We gotta graduate past the PER thing

He shoots over half his shots from 3, and he's a big reason why the Rockets are a top 10 defense in the NBA right now

Nobody on this board was suggesting to sign him for 40 mil, Houston had money to spend & spent it. To imply FVV isnt league average is crazy talk, he does alot of things that dont show up on the stat sheet

[Knightro]

VanVleet would be the best guard on the Magic by a wide margin and I would have been fine paying him what he got considering he's truly a two-year deal.

[AaronB]

1) He is also shooting 36.4 with his 2ball on a bad 46.6% eFG.
2) He is making 40,000,000.00 this year to be a sub 15-PER player.

That is: Houston is paying a player 40 million dollars this year who is not a league average starting PG. I am ok with him not being in Magic blue.

We gotta graduate past the PER thing

He shoots over half his shots from 3, and he's a big reason why the Rockets are a top 10 defense in the NBA right now

Nobody on this board was suggesting to sign him for 40 mil, Houston had money to spend & spent it. To imply FVV isnt league average is crazy talk, he does alot of things that dont show up on the stat sheet

lol

Houston is not a top 10 defensive team. 2 of their 7 games have been against a Fox-less Sac team that might lose to some college teams.

FVV is not a good defender. He is also all about FVV numbers. As bad as Fultz shoots, he is a much better player than FVV.

[ogmagicfan]

We gotta graduate past the PER thing

He shoots over half his shots from 3, and he's a big reason why the Rockets are a top 10 defense in the NBA right now

Nobody on this board was suggesting to sign him for 40 mil, Houston had money to spend & spent it. To imply FVV isnt league average is crazy talk, he does alot of things that dont show up on the stat sheet

lol

Houston is not a top 10 defensive team. 2 of their 7 games have been against a Fox-less Sac team that might lose to some college teams.

FVV is not a good defender. He is also all about FVV numbers. As bad as Fultz shoots, he is a much better player than FVV.

lol

Houston is 9th in Defensive Rating.

FVV is a good defender, if you've ever watched him play you would know. He's a better defender, passer & shooter than Fultz, and suggesting there's even a debate about whose better between the two of them is wild.

[Skybox]

He shoots over half his shots from 3, and he's a big reason why the Rockets are a top 10 defense in the NBA right now

Nobody on this board was suggesting to sign him for 40 mil, Houston had money to spend & spent it. To imply FVV isnt league average is crazy talk, he does alot of things that dont show up on the stat sheet

lol

Houston is not a top 10 defensive team. 2 of their 7 games have been against a Fox-less Sac team that might lose to some college teams.

FVV is not a good defender. He is also all about FVV numbers. As bad as Fultz shoots, he is a much better player than FVV.

lol

Houston is 9th in Defensive Rating.

FVV is a good defender, if you've ever watched him play you would know. He's a better defender, passer & shooter than Fultz, and suggesting there's even a debate about who's better between the two of them is wild.

don't feed the troll...it's not even worth discussing. Maybe someone will give Fultz $40m next summer when he hits free agency

(that would be an 8 year deal)

[pepe1991]

Pacers beat Lillardless Bucks despite Giannis scoring 54

[drsd]

He shoots over half his shots from 3, and he's a big reason why the Rockets are a top 10 defense in the NBA right now

So what?

Let me quote me:

He is also shooting 36.4 with his 2ball on a bad 46.6% eFG.

His 2-ball is awful and his eFG% is way, way below league average. If VanVleet had a 40% three-ball on high volume, he would have a eFG% well over 55%. That is simply not the case.

VanVleet is at a Magic-level of poor shooting this year. That can't be washed over. And at 40M a year, he is a poor investment.

[drsd]

FVV is not a good defender. He is also all about FVV numbers. As bad as Fultz shoots, he is a much better player than FVV.

And-1

So, Orlando has the better guard and with a cost reduction of 62.5%. Thank goodness the Magic was not successful in SnTrading for VanVleet.

[pepe1991]

FVV is not a good defender. He is also all about FVV numbers. As bad as Fultz shoots, he is a much better player than FVV.

And-1

So, Orlando has the better guard and with a cost reduction of 62.5%. Thank goodness the Magic was not successful in SnTrading for VanVleet.

Why 90s centers had high raw FG? Because they shot all shots around rim and didn't shot from outside.
Well... that's execlly how our starting PG, 30 years later play.

Whole 2FGA vs 3FGA is numbers game.

You shoot 50/100 2 point shots and you score 100 points. - nobody does this because it's very hard to shoot 50% FG ( without being very tall and around rim all the time ).
You shoot 34/100 3 point shots and score 102 points despite missing 16 shots more. 34% is still below league's avearge. 80% of league can do this.


And it's important to note that Fultz doesn't even shoot well from mid range this year. He basically isn't good from anywhere but around rim. Cool. If you are 285 pounds , 7 footer in 1986. Not cool when you are 6'4 PG in 2024.


Late edit addition: i don't care about FVV nor what he does. But it has been 5 years and we still have same ridicilous conversations about Fultz. It's Payton debate all over again, if you can't shoot in modern era as PG, you simply can't play PG and be good at (as starter).

[drsd]

But it has been 5 years and we still have same ridicilous conversations about Fultz. It's Payton debate all over again, if you can't shoot in modern era as PG, you simply can't play PG and be good at (as starter).

And-1

Why is Boston winning? Because Derrick White is on god-mode with his FG%. He is shooting an eFG% of friggen 67%.
Another example: Tyrese Maxey is now on eFG 56% for his 25.4 PPG (they dude is gonna be quite rich very soon)

Orlando doesn't need Curry to lead this team. Orlando does need an efficient shooter; not a volume shooter.

Example: I wonder if Tyus Jones would be a better fit to this team than Fultz.

And I still would rather upgrade Suggs first, by the way.


p.s. Fultz just upgraded his FT% from 0% to 100% this last game. He is now 3-3 for the SEASON, meaning he makes 0.6 FTs per game in his 100% FT shooting line.



EDIT: working it out, Maxey will actually get less than 40M a year in a max contract. He will be a steal over Harden. This really worked out for the Sixers.

[Knightro]

And I still would rather upgrade Suggs first, by the way.

You keep saying this and I always find myself perplexed by it.

There’s two things that immediately come to mind for me.

1. The pool of available or potentially available on ball guards is much deeper than off ball guards.

2. Fultz as a non shooter would still be a poor fit even if paired with a great off-ball player. Markelle just does not have the kind of skill set to be a primary facilitator on a team with any sort of deep playoff aspirations. I would strongly bet against a team with Fultz at PG ever winning a playoff series.

Non shooter = non starter.

Suggs’ defense and effort and hustle make him a much easier fit next to a scoring point guard. Granted it was primarily against backups, but the Cole/Suggs pairing was very good last year and Cole isn’t even that great. But their skills compliment each other more.

Give me a Lillard/Suggs type of combo in a backcourt over a Fultz/Booker type of combo every time 10/10.

[p0peye]

We need to be more agile in roster construction. We simply cannot afford spending 5 (FIVE) seasons evaluating any player and that should be a tenant.

[pepe1991]

Give me a Lillard/Suggs type of combo in a backcourt over a Fultz/Booker type of combo every time 10/10.

Give me Lillard + lucky fan over and we will win ,with same roster, 50 games this year

[drsd]

And I still would rather upgrade Suggs first, by the way.

You keep saying this and I always find myself perplexed by it.

There’s two things that immediately come to mind for me.

1. The pool of available or potentially available on ball guards is much deeper than off ball guards.

2. Fultz as a non shooter would still be a poor fit even if paired with a great off-ball player. Markelle just does not have the kind of skill set to be a primary facilitator on a team with any sort of deep playoff aspirations. I would strongly bet against a team with Fultz at PG ever winning a playoff series.

We all know my favorite statistic in FG%. Win the FG% in a given game, and about 90% of the time, you win the game.

This year the Magic is -0.5% in FG% differential, and that's 17th in the league.

Fultz has a eFG% this year of 48.2% and Suggs an eFG% of 47.5%. At one level, it is more probable that a new SG would shoot better than a new PG, but this is a marginal gains question. I guess you are looking for transformational changes (by bringing up Lillard, for example).

I am assuming that Orlando can consolidate assets to find a player that is a little better, not make a splash trade to bring in a max-level superstar. Think: Immanuel Quickley or Tyler Herro, not Curry or Mitchell.

It is in this that I think Suggs is easier to replace.

And I do note I am thoroughly unconvinced by the whole guard depth chart. Maybe Anthony as a back-up PG should be retained, and I still think Howard's game will find its place, but I am OK with Fultz, Suggs AND Black being shipped for an upgrade at either starting guard slot. The Magic must get more efficient shooting from the perimeter. This is not sustainable. All the offense rebounds and steals-led fastbreaks will settle down. And then the losses will pile on.

[p0peye]

And I still would rather upgrade Suggs first, by the way.

You keep saying this and I always find myself perplexed by it.

There’s two things that immediately come to mind for me.

1. The pool of available or potentially available on ball guards is much deeper than off ball guards.

2. Fultz as a non shooter would still be a poor fit even if paired with a great off-ball player. Markelle just does not have the kind of skill set to be a primary facilitator on a team with any sort of deep playoff aspirations. I would strongly bet against a team with Fultz at PG ever winning a playoff series.

We all know my favorite statistic in FG%. Win the FG% in a given game, and about 90% of the time, you win the game.

This year the Magic is -0.5% in FG% differential, and that's 17th in the league.

Fultz has a eFG% this year of 48.2% and Suggs an eFG% of 47.5%. At one level, it is more probable that a new SG would shoot better than a new PG, but this is a marginal gains question. I guess you are looking for transformational changes (by bringing up Lillard, for example).

I am assuming that Orlando can consolidate assets to find a player that is a little better, not make a splash trade to bring in a max-level superstar. Think: Immanuel Quickley or Tyler Herro, not Curry or Mitchell.

It is in this that I think Suggs is easier to replace.

And I do note I am thoroughly unconvinced by the whole guard depth chart. Maybe Anthony as a back-up PG should be retained, and I still think Howard's game will find its place, but I am OK with Fultz, Suggs AND Black being shipped for an upgrade at either starting guard slot. The Magic must get more efficient shooting from the perimeter. This is not sustainable. All the offense rebounds and steals-led fastbreaks will settle down. And then the losses will pile on.

I don't see how Suggs is easier to replace, what is there that needs to be replaced that Fultz provides? You can just as easily slide any of Suggs or Black in his place and we don't miss a beat. I wouldn't trade Suggs yet as this is his 3rd year. If this season remains in line with what his college and NBA career so far was like, he is on Marcus Smart path and Magic might not be the team for him in the long term.

I don't mind keeping Fultz until his contract expires next year, it's not like we can use him in trade other than as sallary filler. We cannot afford not to give his minutes to Black from this point forward and let Fultz recover his shoulder or whatever until end of season.

[VFX]

If your main takeaway from the game last night is:

“We need better FG% in total so we need to change one of the guards, Jalen Suggs is more replaceable because of his position”, then you are an idiot and not to be taken seriously. Respectfully.

Jalen Suggs kept Orlando is the game. He had 6 steals, crazy defense, and a good night of shooting albeit against bad defense. Box scores don’t tell the whole story if you are looking at how terrible the rest of everyone played comparatively.

[basketballRob]

Suggs hasn't peaked yet. I still stand by what I said last week when his percentages were low. He'll be a 35% 3 pt shooter this year.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Knightro]

We all know my favorite statistic in FG%. Win the FG% in a given game, and about 90% of the time, you win the game.

This year the Magic is -0.5% in FG% differential, and that's 17th in the league.

Fultz has a eFG% this year of 48.2% and Suggs an eFG% of 47.5%. At one level, it is more probable that a new SG would shoot better than a new PG, but this is a marginal gains question. I guess you are looking for transformational changes (by bringing up Lillard, for example).

So is your favorite stat FG% or eFG%? Because those obviously aren’t the same thing.

[drsd]

We all know my favorite statistic in FG%. Win the FG% in a given game, and about 90% of the time, you win the game.

This year the Magic is -0.5% in FG% differential, and that's 17th in the league.

Fultz has a eFG% this year of 48.2% and Suggs an eFG% of 47.5%. At one level, it is more probable that a new SG would shoot better than a new PG, but this is a marginal gains question. I guess you are looking for transformational changes (by bringing up Lillard, for example).

So is your favorite stat FG% or eFG%? Because those obviously aren’t the same thing.

For a team and victory potential, FG%.
For assessing player scoring efficiency, I actually perfer True Shooting Percentage. It is for example why I project Banchero as a very good scorer in the NBA. He might have a low(ish) FG% and eFG% over all of his career, and actually have a nice TS%.

Example:
Banchero has an eFG% of 50.5% and a TS% of 55.2%, whereas Fultz is at eFG% 48.2% with a TS% of 49.3%

When Orlando finely finds a scoring guard, I expect Banchero's FT rate to even further explode to positivity in his box score.