Cade Cunningham - Any Concerns?

[Roger Murdock]

Pretty sure that poster's point was that LeBron having a bad TS after 85 games didn't stop him from being successful, not that Cade = LeBron...

which is still incorrect because LeBron was better compared to the rest of the league than Cade is today

LeBron's team stats were better than Cade's has ever been

it's idiotic to compare Cade to LeBron anyways, they have very little in common outside of being the #1 pick

The point seems to be going right over some of your heads. Nobody is comparing LeBron to Cade. The point that poster was trying to make was simply that one of the greatest players of all time had a bad TS through 85 games, so a bad TS after 85 games on its own doesn't doom a prospect to failure.

Not that LeBron's league-relative-TS was as bad as Cade's, not that Cade would be better than LeBron, or is even near his level. Just that LeBron's TS was well below league average after 85 games and he still turned out ok. So cade wouldn't be the first #1 pick to have a bad TS after 85 games and still succeed, if he does make it.

It’s not going over anyone’s heads like it’s some subtle, nuanced thought. The whole point falls apart the second you apply even a little bit of context.

Cade has the worst athletic profile of any player drafted #1 since 2003. LeBron unquestionably has the best.

LeBrons growth trajectory was surreal. He was 2nd team all NBA his second season. His third season he was 1st team all NBA and runner up to MVP and he was younger than Cade.

LeBron was a dynamic slasher and playmaker and scorer almost immediately,

Cade will always have a difficult shot diet because he’s a horrible athlete, has a loose handle and an awful first step, and isn’t a great passer despite being shoehorned into a lead guard. If Cade doesn’t learn to how make difficult jumpers he’s always going to struggle scoring because he won’t be able to generate easy looks for himself.

[cgf]

which is still incorrect because LeBron was better compared to the rest of the league than Cade is today

LeBron's team stats were better than Cade's has ever been

it's idiotic to compare Cade to LeBron anyways, they have very little in common outside of being the #1 pick

The point seems to be going right over some of your heads. Nobody is comparing LeBron to Cade. The point that poster was trying to make was simply that one of the greatest players of all time had a bad TS through 85 games, so a bad TS after 85 games on its own doesn't doom a prospect to failure.

Not that LeBron's league-relative-TS was as bad as Cade's, not that Cade would be better than LeBron, or is even near his level. Just that LeBron's TS was well below league average after 85 games and he still turned out ok. So cade wouldn't be the first #1 pick to have a bad TS after 85 games and still succeed, if he does make it.

It’s not going over anyone’s heads like it’s some subtle, nuanced thought. The whole point falls apart the second you apply even a little bit of context.

Cade has the worst athletic profile of any player drafted #1 since 2003. LeBron unquestionably has the best.

LeBrons growth trajectory was surreal. He was 2nd team all NBA his second season. His third season he was 1st team all NBA and runner up to MVP and he was younger than Cade.

LeBron was a dynamic slasher and playmaker and scorer almost immediately,

Cade will always have a difficult shot diet because he’s a horrible athlete, has a loose handle and an awful first step, and isn’t a great passer despite being shoehorned into a lead guard. If Cade doesn’t learn to how make difficult jumpers he’s always going to struggle scoring because he won’t be able to generate easy looks for himself.

Then why do you keep trying to compare Cade to LeBron? Somebody said something to the effect of 'no #1 pick that ended up successful, had a bad TS by this point in their career'. That's why it was pointed out that the most successful #1 pick of this century had a bad TS after 85 games.

Cade may well still fail, but his TS after 85 games isn't the definitive proof that some folks are acting like it is.

[Kalamazoo317]

Wemby has the best athletic profile of any player drafted #1 since 2003.

[Roger Murdock]

The point seems to be going right over some of your heads. Nobody is comparing LeBron to Cade. The point that poster was trying to make was simply that one of the greatest players of all time had a bad TS through 85 games, so a bad TS after 85 games on its own doesn't doom a prospect to failure.

Not that LeBron's league-relative-TS was as bad as Cade's, not that Cade would be better than LeBron, or is even near his level. Just that LeBron's TS was well below league average after 85 games and he still turned out ok. So cade wouldn't be the first #1 pick to have a bad TS after 85 games and still succeed, if he does make it.

It’s not going over anyone’s heads like it’s some subtle, nuanced thought. The whole point falls apart the second you apply even a little bit of context.

Cade has the worst athletic profile of any player drafted #1 since 2003. LeBron unquestionably has the best.

LeBrons growth trajectory was surreal. He was 2nd team all NBA his second season. His third season he was 1st team all NBA and runner up to MVP and he was younger than Cade.

LeBron was a dynamic slasher and playmaker and scorer almost immediately,

Cade will always have a difficult shot diet because he’s a horrible athlete, has a loose handle and an awful first step, and isn’t a great passer despite being shoehorned into a lead guard. If Cade doesn’t learn to how make difficult jumpers he’s always going to struggle scoring because he won’t be able to generate easy looks for himself.

Then why do you keep trying to compare Cade to LeBron? Somebody said something to the effect of 'no #1 pick that ended up successful, had a bad TS by this point in their career'. That's why it was pointed out that the most successful #1 pick of this century had a bad TS after 85 games.

Cade may well still fail, but his TS after 85 games isn't the definitive proof that some folks are acting like it is.

Cades TS% sucks because he can't get easy looks because hes a terrible athlete. I expect it to improve as he learns the game better but I think its pretty unlikely it ever gets to be good because he doesnt have a bag and doesnt have NBA #1 option athleticism. He absolutely needs his shooting to come around because he was billed as an elite shooter and that hasnt materialized at all.

The only 'comparing' between LeBron and Cade I'm doing is pointing out how stupid it is to compare them, which other people brought up. I should have just ignored it, because it was a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) point and a classic BS debate technique - its easier to smear poop on the walls than it is to clean it up. And when you see people smearing poop on the walls its a good sign to just leave.

I sure as hell dont think there are any similarities between their game, circumstance, talent level, ability, or anything like that. Comparing Cade to LeBron is like comparing Aaron Carter to the Beatles because the Beatles had a few bad songs too.

[Tacoma]

Pretty sure that poster's point was that LeBron having a bad TS after 85 games didn't stop him from being successful, not that Cade = LeBron...

which is still incorrect because LeBron was better compared to the rest of the league than Cade is today

LeBron's team stats were better than Cade's has ever been

it's idiotic to compare Cade to LeBron anyways, they have very little in common outside of being the #1 pick

The point seems to be going right over some of your heads. Nobody is comparing LeBron to Cade. The point that poster was trying to make was simply that one of the greatest players of all time had a bad TS through 85 games, so a bad TS after 85 games on its own doesn't doom a prospect to failure.

Not that LeBron's league-relative-TS was as bad as Cade's, not that Cade would be better than LeBron, or is even near his level. Just that LeBron's TS was well below league average after 85 games and he still turned out ok. So cade wouldn't be the first #1 pick to have a bad TS after 85 games and still succeed, if he does make it.

And if that poster had kept to that point, you'd have a point. But that poster didn't. He went on to a conversation saying, among other things, Cade's TS was better than LeBron's after 85 games. Then someone point out that the average TS back when LeBron was young was less than now, so context matters... yada, yada, yada.

So that poster went beyond his first point and argued himself into much more and it just devolved.

[ocelot17]

Read on Twitter

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[Kalamazoo317]

I'm much more concerned about Wagner, Green, Mobley, and Giddey from that draft class. Scottie is having a good year so far, though he was way down in his second season and had similar grenades lobbed at him when he was at the 85 game mark.

Cade's not an elite athlete, but "horrible" is a pretty silly determination, as if there's no middle ground. He needs to tighten his handle, improve some of his decision making, and work on drawing fouls, but he's a good player who's going to get better, and is playing better than the bulk of his draft class right now despite missing a lot of development time and carrying a bigger load than any of them.

[cgf]

which is still incorrect because LeBron was better compared to the rest of the league than Cade is today

LeBron's team stats were better than Cade's has ever been

it's idiotic to compare Cade to LeBron anyways, they have very little in common outside of being the #1 pick

The point seems to be going right over some of your heads. Nobody is comparing LeBron to Cade. The point that poster was trying to make was simply that one of the greatest players of all time had a bad TS through 85 games, so a bad TS after 85 games on its own doesn't doom a prospect to failure.

Not that LeBron's league-relative-TS was as bad as Cade's, not that Cade would be better than LeBron, or is even near his level. Just that LeBron's TS was well below league average after 85 games and he still turned out ok. So cade wouldn't be the first #1 pick to have a bad TS after 85 games and still succeed, if he does make it.

And if that poster had kept to that point, you'd have a point. But that poster didn't. He went on to a conversation saying, among other things, Cade's TS was better than LeBron's after 85 games. Then someone point out that the average TS back when LeBron was young was less than now, so context matters... yada, yada, yada.

So that poster went beyond his first point and argued himself into much more and it just devolved.

I mean, the raw TS was better than LeBron's...even if that were true relative to league average, that wouldn't mean Cade will be the next LeBron. It's just a cute coincidence to bring up in response to the assertion that #1 picks with bad TS at the start of their careers don't succeed.

[Kalamazoo317]

I'll also say that despite being the #1 option on the team, Cade doesn't benefit from superstar treatment from the refs. The ticky tack stuff that gets called when other #1 options go to the hoop versus the physical beatdowns that are ignored when Cade goes to the hoop gets absurd at times. I think he just doesn't know how to sell contact well enough and can only hope Burks gets in his ear and teaches him.

[cgf]

It’s not going over anyone’s heads like it’s some subtle, nuanced thought. The whole point falls apart the second you apply even a little bit of context.

Cade has the worst athletic profile of any player drafted #1 since 2003. LeBron unquestionably has the best.

LeBrons growth trajectory was surreal. He was 2nd team all NBA his second season. His third season he was 1st team all NBA and runner up to MVP and he was younger than Cade.

LeBron was a dynamic slasher and playmaker and scorer almost immediately,

Cade will always have a difficult shot diet because he’s a horrible athlete, has a loose handle and an awful first step, and isn’t a great passer despite being shoehorned into a lead guard. If Cade doesn’t learn to how make difficult jumpers he’s always going to struggle scoring because he won’t be able to generate easy looks for himself.

Then why do you keep trying to compare Cade to LeBron? Somebody said something to the effect of 'no #1 pick that ended up successful, had a bad TS by this point in their career'. That's why it was pointed out that the most successful #1 pick of this century had a bad TS after 85 games.

Cade may well still fail, but his TS after 85 games isn't the definitive proof that some folks are acting like it is.

Cades TS% sucks because he can't get easy looks because hes a terrible athlete. I expect it to improve as he learns the game better but I think its pretty unlikely it ever gets to be good because he doesnt have a bag and doesnt have NBA #1 option athleticism. He absolutely needs his shooting to come around because he was billed as an elite shooter and that hasnt materialized at all.

The only 'comparing' between LeBron and Cade I'm doing is pointing out how stupid it is to compare them, which other people brought up. I should have just ignored it, because it was a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) point and a classic BS debate technique - its easier to smear poop on the walls than it is to clean it up. And when you see people smearing poop on the walls its a good sign to just leave.

I sure as hell dont think there are any similarities between their game, circumstance, talent level, ability, or anything like that. Comparing Cade to LeBron is like comparing Aaron Carter to the Beatles because the Beatles had a few bad songs too.

But nobody compared them, so getting all worked up about people comparing them is what's idiotic

You're watching someone eating dinner and seeing them smearing s*** on the walls. Yes that food will become s*** that could then be smeared on the walls, but so far that s*** is just food and you're the one bringing up smearing it on the walls.

Nobody is saying that Cade will be the next LeBron, just that it's silly to say a bad TS after 85 games dooms a #1 pick when the best #1 pick had a bad TS after 85 games.

[cgf]

I'll also say that despite being the #1 option on the team, Cade doesn't benefit from superstar treatment from the refs. The ticky tack stuff that gets called when other #1 options go to the hoop versus the physical beatdowns that are ignored when Cade goes to the hoop gets absurd at times. I think he just doesn't know how to sell contact well enough and can only hope Burks gets in his ear and teaches him.

Some of that is that Cade seems to try to avoid contact to get his shot off, not seek it out. When you're looking for that contact you're going to find it a lot more.

I think filling out should help him make that switch, because there is some art to foul-baiting and being strong enough to feel confident about finishing through contact can help a lot.

[Kalamazoo317]

Yes, he definitely needs to learn the art of selling contact, don't get me wrong. I'm hoping he does, cuz he's definitely taking the contact.

[Clyde Frazier]

He's 22 years old and has played 85 career NBA games. You have the weirdo fans who can't wait to say he's a disappointment and the reasonable fans who get it takes time for young players to develop.

[7r5ur]

I'll also say that despite being the #1 option on the team, Cade doesn't benefit from superstar treatment from the refs. The ticky tack stuff that gets called when other #1 options go to the hoop versus the physical beatdowns that are ignored when Cade goes to the hoop gets absurd at times. I think he just doesn't know how to sell contact well enough and can only hope Burks gets in his ear and teaches him.

Some of that is that Cade seems to try to avoid contact to get his shot off, not seek it out. When you're looking for that contact you're going to find it a lot more.

I think filling out should help him make that switch, because there is some art to foul-baiting and being strong enough to feel confident about finishing through contact can help a lot.

He just needs to sell the contact. He doesn't do that at all right now. Every single player that gets to the line is flopping to some degree with every bit of contact. Don't know if he'll ever be a free throw merchant like some guys, but I'm sure he'll learn.

[cgf]

I'll also say that despite being the #1 option on the team, Cade doesn't benefit from superstar treatment from the refs. The ticky tack stuff that gets called when other #1 options go to the hoop versus the physical beatdowns that are ignored when Cade goes to the hoop gets absurd at times. I think he just doesn't know how to sell contact well enough and can only hope Burks gets in his ear and teaches him.

Some of that is that Cade seems to try to avoid contact to get his shot off, not seek it out. When you're looking for that contact you're going to find it a lot more.

I think filling out should help him make that switch, because there is some art to foul-baiting and being strong enough to feel confident about finishing through contact can help a lot.

He just needs to sell the contact. He doesn't do that at all right now. Every single player that gets to the line is flopping to some degree with every bit of contact. Don't know if he'll ever be a free throw merchant like some guys, but I'm sure he'll learn.

That's certainly part of it too, but Cade seems to lean away from contact when shooting in congested areas. Maybe it pops to me because I'm so used to watching Brunson, Quickley, Barrett, and Randle leaning into contact in those same situations.

But yeah, as he learns the league and fills out, I expect his foul-baiting to continue to improve.

[7r5ur]

Cades TS% sucks because he can't get easy looks because hes a terrible athlete. I expect it to improve as he learns the game better but I think its pretty unlikely it ever gets to be good because he doesnt have a bag and doesnt have NBA #1 option athleticism. He absolutely needs his shooting to come around because he was billed as an elite shooter and that hasnt materialized at all.

The only 'comparing' between LeBron and Cade I'm doing is pointing out how stupid it is to compare them, which other people brought up. I should have just ignored it, because it was a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) point and a classic BS debate technique - its easier to smear poop on the walls than it is to clean it up. And when you see people smearing poop on the walls its a good sign to just leave.

I sure as hell dont think there are any similarities between their game, circumstance, talent level, ability, or anything like that. Comparing Cade to LeBron is like comparing Aaron Carter to the Beatles because the Beatles had a few bad songs too.

This idea that you need to be an elite athlete to be a number 1 option is so absurd and has been debunked a thousand times now. It's laughable that people out there still believe this.

[ocelot17]

Cades TS% sucks because he can't get easy looks because hes a terrible athlete. I expect it to improve as he learns the game better but I think its pretty unlikely it ever gets to be good because he doesnt have a bag and doesnt have NBA #1 option athleticism. He absolutely needs his shooting to come around because he was billed as an elite shooter and that hasnt materialized at all.

The only 'comparing' between LeBron and Cade I'm doing is pointing out how stupid it is to compare them, which other people brought up. I should have just ignored it, because it was a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) point and a classic BS debate technique - its easier to smear poop on the walls than it is to clean it up. And when you see people smearing poop on the walls its a good sign to just leave.

I sure as hell dont think there are any similarities between their game, circumstance, talent level, ability, or anything like that. Comparing Cade to LeBron is like comparing Aaron Carter to the Beatles because the Beatles had a few bad songs too.

This idea that you need to be an elite athlete to be a number 1 option is so absurd and has been debunked a thousand times now. It's laughable that people out there still believe this.

Cade is an athletic freak compared to Luka.

[CptCrunch]

Sounds like most Pistons fans are okay with offering Cade the rookie max after this season.

LaMelo and Ant's max based this year was capped at $260m, with 4.4% project cap increase, we it's 270m over 5 years.

Should be easily the worst contract in the NBA soon.

[Roger Murdock]

Cades TS% sucks because he can't get easy looks because hes a terrible athlete. I expect it to improve as he learns the game better but I think its pretty unlikely it ever gets to be good because he doesnt have a bag and doesnt have NBA #1 option athleticism. He absolutely needs his shooting to come around because he was billed as an elite shooter and that hasnt materialized at all.

The only 'comparing' between LeBron and Cade I'm doing is pointing out how stupid it is to compare them, which other people brought up. I should have just ignored it, because it was a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) point and a classic BS debate technique - its easier to smear poop on the walls than it is to clean it up. And when you see people smearing poop on the walls its a good sign to just leave.

I sure as hell dont think there are any similarities between their game, circumstance, talent level, ability, or anything like that. Comparing Cade to LeBron is like comparing Aaron Carter to the Beatles because the Beatles had a few bad songs too.

This idea that you need to be an elite athlete to be a number 1 option is so absurd and has been debunked a thousand times now. It's laughable that people out there still believe this.

I absolutely don’t think you need to be an elite athlete to be a number one option

I think Cade is a horrible athlete for someone who is supposed to be a number one option; so to compensate he either needs to be a gifted tough shot maker, shooter, or playmaker.

My concerns are that his shooting hasn’t translated well. His handle and first step is extremely poor which really limits his playmaking because he’s never going to make defenses scramble.

Cade will be good if he starts splashing jumpers and potentially great if he gets better at making tough buckets.

I don’t think there’s line of sight for him to be someone who generates easy scoring opportunities for himself, so if Cade is going to be great it’s going to be harder for him than it is for others.

[Roger Murdock]

Cades TS% sucks because he can't get easy looks because hes a terrible athlete. I expect it to improve as he learns the game better but I think its pretty unlikely it ever gets to be good because he doesnt have a bag and doesnt have NBA #1 option athleticism. He absolutely needs his shooting to come around because he was billed as an elite shooter and that hasnt materialized at all.

The only 'comparing' between LeBron and Cade I'm doing is pointing out how stupid it is to compare them, which other people brought up. I should have just ignored it, because it was a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) point and a classic BS debate technique - its easier to smear poop on the walls than it is to clean it up. And when you see people smearing poop on the walls its a good sign to just leave.

I sure as hell dont think there are any similarities between their game, circumstance, talent level, ability, or anything like that. Comparing Cade to LeBron is like comparing Aaron Carter to the Beatles because the Beatles had a few bad songs too.

This idea that you need to be an elite athlete to be a number 1 option is so absurd and has been debunked a thousand times now. It's laughable that people out there still believe this.

Cade is an athletic freak compared to Luka.

Luka has a considerably better first step, is extremely strong and physical vs being weak, and has a lot more herky jerky acceleration/deceleration and wiggle to his game. Plus Luka is bigger and has a cleaner handle, more coordition, and is a better passer.

I frankly don't think its close but to each their own. I thought Luka was a pretty underrated athlete entering the league and found Cades sluggish play alarming.