Bears 2023 thread V

[the ultimates]

Please tell me what people see in Mcarthy? He has a decent but not great arm, decent size and mobility. He's not a great decision-maker and really looks like a low-level game manager. He's continuously propped up by a running game and defense. See the OSU game last year see the game against Penn State right now. Hell if McCarthy played the same way at Iowa, Illinois or Wisconsin nobody would be saying he's a first-round pick and I damn sure don't want the Bears to have anything to do with him.

mich ran the ball on 3rd and long several times today. are the receivers and pass protection THAT bad? it was like rookie justin fields playcalling

The line is one of the best in the country and the receivers are decent. Harbaugh has found his groove relying on smash-mouth football with a great defense and power running game. If they try and stretch the field it's off play action, not straight drop backs.

To be fair to Michigan today Penn State's offense didn't look like it could do anything so no need to take risks or open it up. With that being said Michigan wants to bludgeon you to death. I've never seen anything from Mcarthy telling me Michigan wants to put a game in his hands or that they want to open up the passing game because he's that good.

[Dresden]

no teem needs elite talent except at the QB position.

Problem with this is that there is no elite talent at the position in the 2024 draft. In absense of that, you take two best players in the draft. Give me elite talent at WR and OT over a mediocre talent at QB. If the Bears draft Williams or Maybe in 2024, I guarantee you, the Bears will be in the QB market in 2028/29.

you think there is at least a 95% chance that caleb and drake are not franchise-caliber nfl QBs? because that's the kind of confidence that a guarantee requires. so sorry, but your confidence level is sheer nonsense. espn prospect grades since 2013:

97 lawrence, winston
96 young

94 stroud, burrow, darnold
93 wilson, tua, mariota
92 lance, rosen, allen

91 fields, mayfield, richardson, levis, wentz, goff, bortles
90 jones, willis, pickett, love, murray, haskins, manziel
89 herbert, lock, trubisky, bridgewater, geno
88 finley, watson
87 jackson

mahomes was 87 or lower

if you're waiting for a trevor lawrence-level prospect as a GM, you're almost certainly going to be out of a job. you have to take swings at 2nd tier prospects at QB. there's a reason they still often go at the top of the draft (as do some of the 3rd tier!). and caleb will certainly be at least a 2nd tier prospect

and again, if you already have a proven performer at a position, taking an "elite talent" who is UNproven at the pro level...and paying him significantly more to boot, is a poor use of resources. the LT job SHOULD be jones's to win/lose over the remainder of the season

That list goes to show how hard it is to evaluate QB's. Winston, Darnold, Mariota, Lance, Rosen- all busts, and all in their top 12. Overall, at least 19 of those 33 are either busts or semi-busts. With 4-5 more TBD. It's a tough position to play in the NFL. That being said, I really think Caleb Williams is an elite prospect. Just the kind of throws he can make, and how elusive he is in the pocket. He may have some trouble making quick reads, but he will be able to buy time, and he's shown he can find guys when he does. That sort of talent I think translates pretty well, and doesn't really depend on the system, or even on having great linemen in front of you. As long as the coaches let him play his way, at least to some degree. A lot like Aaron Rodgers, or Brett Favre.

[sco]

Please tell me what people see in Mcarthy? He has a decent but not great arm, decent size and mobility. He's not a great decision-maker and really looks like a low-level game manager. He's continuously propped up by a running game and defense. See the OSU game last year see the game against Penn State right now. Hell if McCarthy played the same way at Iowa, Illinois or Wisconsin nobody would be saying he's a first-round pick and I damn sure don't want the Bears to have anything to do with him.

mich ran the ball on 3rd and long several times today. are the receivers and pass protection THAT bad? it was like rookie justin fields playcalling

The line is one of the best in the country and the receivers are decent. Harbaugh has found his groove relying on smash-mouth football with a great defense and power running game. If they try and stretch the field it's off play action, not straight drop backs.

To be fair to Michigan today Penn State's offense didn't look like it could do anything so no need to take risks or open it up. With that being said Michigan wants to bludgeon you to death. I've never seen anything from Mcarthy telling me Michigan wants to put a game in his hands or that they want to open up the passing game because he's that good.

I get the comments on JJ, but he has been performing exceptionally well on 3rd downs this season. On third and long (7+ yards), he has completed 19 out of 20 attempts for a total of 339 yards and 4 touchdowns. Definitely is a testament to his ability to deliver under pressure.

In terms of running today, sure I'd like to have seen more passing, but it wasn't 3 yards and cloud of dust, it was 4.9. They neutralized PSU's speed by forcing them to become run-stoppers against the best O-Line in the NCAA, and BTW Corum is a f'ing monster.

[bad knees]

Problem with this is that there is no elite talent at the position in the 2024 draft. In absense of that, you take two best players in the draft. Give me elite talent at WR and OT over a mediocre talent at QB. If the Bears draft Williams or Maybe in 2024, I guarantee you, the Bears will be in the QB market in 2028/29.

you think there is at least a 95% chance that caleb and drake are not franchise-caliber nfl QBs? because that's the kind of confidence that a guarantee requires. so sorry, but your confidence level is sheer nonsense. espn prospect grades since 2013:

97 lawrence, winston
96 young

94 stroud, burrow, darnold
93 wilson, tua, mariota
92 lance, rosen, allen

91 fields, mayfield, richardson, levis, wentz, goff, bortles
90 jones, willis, pickett, love, murray, haskins, manziel
89 herbert, lock, trubisky, bridgewater, geno
88 finley, watson
87 jackson

mahomes was 87 or lower

if you're waiting for a trevor lawrence-level prospect as a GM, you're almost certainly going to be out of a job. you have to take swings at 2nd tier prospects at QB. there's a reason they still often go at the top of the draft (as do some of the 3rd tier!). and caleb will certainly be at least a 2nd tier prospect

and again, if you already have a proven performer at a position, taking an "elite talent" who is UNproven at the pro level...and paying him significantly more to boot, is a poor use of resources. the LT job SHOULD be jones's to win/lose over the remainder of the season

That list goes to show how hard it is to evaluate QB's. Winston, Darnold, Mariota, Lance, Rosen- all busts, and all in their top 12. Overall, at least 19 of those 33 are either busts or semi-busts. With 4-5 more TBD. It's a tough position to play in the NFL. That being said, I really think Caleb Williams is an elite prospect. Just the kind of throws he can make, and how elusive he is in the pocket. He may have some trouble making quick reads, but he will be able to buy time, and he's shown he can find guys when he does. That sort of talent I think translates pretty well, and doesn't really depend on the system, or even on having great linemen in front of you. As long as the coaches let him play his way, at least to some degree. A lot like Aaron Rodgers, or Brett Favre.

Williams has 26 sacks so far this year. After watching Fields hold the ball too long for the last several years, I'm looking for someone who is both athletic and gets rid of the ball quickly. Bo Nix has 4 sacks this year, and he had 5 total last year. And he's comparable to Williams in terms of ability to elude the rush and to make plays, either with his arm or his legs.

[fleet]

you think there is at least a 95% chance that caleb and drake are not franchise-caliber nfl QBs? because that's the kind of confidence that a guarantee requires. so sorry, but your confidence level is sheer nonsense. espn prospect grades since 2013:

97 lawrence, winston
96 young

94 stroud, burrow, darnold
93 wilson, tua, mariota
92 lance, rosen, allen

91 fields, mayfield, richardson, levis, wentz, goff, bortles
90 jones, willis, pickett, love, murray, haskins, manziel
89 herbert, lock, trubisky, bridgewater, geno
88 finley, watson
87 jackson

mahomes was 87 or lower

if you're waiting for a trevor lawrence-level prospect as a GM, you're almost certainly going to be out of a job. you have to take swings at 2nd tier prospects at QB. there's a reason they still often go at the top of the draft (as do some of the 3rd tier!). and caleb will certainly be at least a 2nd tier prospect

and again, if you already have a proven performer at a position, taking an "elite talent" who is UNproven at the pro level...and paying him significantly more to boot, is a poor use of resources. the LT job SHOULD be jones's to win/lose over the remainder of the season

That list goes to show how hard it is to evaluate QB's. Winston, Darnold, Mariota, Lance, Rosen- all busts, and all in their top 12. Overall, at least 19 of those 33 are either busts or semi-busts. With 4-5 more TBD. It's a tough position to play in the NFL. That being said, I really think Caleb Williams is an elite prospect. Just the kind of throws he can make, and how elusive he is in the pocket. He may have some trouble making quick reads, but he will be able to buy time, and he's shown he can find guys when he does. That sort of talent I think translates pretty well, and doesn't really depend on the system, or even on having great linemen in front of you. As long as the coaches let him play his way, at least to some degree. A lot like Aaron Rodgers, or Brett Favre.

Williams has 26 sacks so far this year. After watching Fields hold the ball too long for the last several years, I'm looking for someone who is both athletic and gets rid of the ball quickly. Bo Nix has 4 sacks this year, and he had 5 total last year. And he's comparable to Williams in terms of ability to elude the rush and to make plays, either with his arm or his legs.

No idea how much is fact or fiction. Williams worries me though. The talk about Williams asking for part ownership of a team, and picking his destination or he's pulling out of the draft.....he sounds like a huge **** headache.

I'm over hero ball quarterbacks that hold the ball forever. Give me the organization guy that moves the sticks. gets through progressions, syncs with receivers ready to rip it, commands the offense/huddle. Maye for me. Although I believe Maye leads the conference in bigtime throws.. Nix may be all those things, i don't know. But yeah let's get guys that play on time for once. Nix (or whoever they like) would sound like a draft option if Poles STILL cannot make up his mind on Fields, or the Bears fall out of the top 2 or 3 picks. So run it back with Fields, and have Bagency and Nix waiting in the wings in the learning the position. It’s definitely a good thought. I prefer going Fashanu and Latu, something like that if Fields stays and the Bears picks are too low for Williams or Maye. Could even trade down with the top pick to end up with Fashanu and Latu, a future first, some second rounders. Hard to look away from MHJ though.

[fleet]

Read on Twitter

The Bears seem incapable of finding the next hot new coach like other teams are able. I am ready for experience. Would rather it be something like Tomlin if that ever shook loose. The above scenario would be pretty dang interesting of an outcome at least if Harbaugh can get to the NFL. Would have to believe Chicago on a top draft pick year is his best move. Long odds against the McCaskeys wanting to go this way though judging by their track record of coaching hires. For Poles, the above scenario would be a clean slate opportunity however. If Harbaugh will stay in his lane. My wish is for a Drake Maye twist on it.

[Jcool0]

Where's the love for Bo Nix? 78% completion percentage, 300 yds/game, 25 TD's, 2 INT, quick release, strong arm, much improved decisionmaking, mobile, good size (6'2", 225). Of the guys I've seen, he's impressed me the most. He goes head-to-head against Caleb Williams tonight so it should be interesting.

Will be a 25 after his rookie year & wasn't a great player at Auburn. Probably goes in round 3.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Where's the love for Bo Nix? 78% completion percentage, 300 yds/game, 25 TD's, 2 INT, quick release, strong arm, much improved decisionmaking, mobile, good size (6'2", 225). Of the guys I've seen, he's impressed me the most. He goes head-to-head against Caleb Williams tonight so it should be interesting.

Will be a 25 after his rookie year & wasn't a great player at Auburn. Probably goes in round 3.

I like Nix but have been trying to do a deep dive on 2024 QB's, and I'm really coming around on Penix if we trade down with one of our picks. He checks all the boxes but obviously has the injury history. With that said, he's elusive in the pocket, can make all the throws, and is probably the best "processor" of the bunch. The injury history might be a blessing in disguise if we can trade down to #15 and grab him.

I'm also low key loving Ewers as a raw prospect with the best natural arm talent of any QB prospect. I just worry we don't have the coaching staff to properly develop him.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Watching this Oregon/USC game and Nix looks better than Williams.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

To be fair Williams has had some nice throws but his team isn't helping him much. A lot of escapability but not amounting to much. Holding the ball too long?

[fleet]

To be fair Williams has had some nice throws but his team isn't helping him much. A lot of escapability but not amounting to much. Holding the ball too long?

A shorter poor man’s Mahomes? But with weird baggage. He sounds very unsafe to me. He may become what Bryce Young was supposed to be If this coaching staff is still here, they would probably rather coach Maye

[ThisGuyFawkes]

To be fair Williams has had some nice throws but his team isn't helping him much. A lot of escapability but not amounting to much. Holding the ball too long?

A shorter poor man’s Mahomes? But with weird baggage. He sounds very unsafe to me. He may become what Bryce Young was supposed to be If this coaching staff is still here, they would probably rather coach Maye

Yeah, it's so difficult to judge this stuff. Oregon is just a much better team so hard to say.

[Chi town]

CW had an awful line and brutal defense. He’s always playing catch up and has no time to throw and still keeps his team in the league.

I understand the perceived baggage but I think he plays free and with weapons would be absolutely elite.

[Chi town]

My guy Latu with 2.5 TFL today. Dude is a terror at DE.

I put Maye McCarthy Penix and Nix all in the same category in that order. Think McCarthy has the highest ceiling.

Keon Jackson is the first WR taken in any draft but not the his one due to MHJ. He’d be a great WR opposite dj.

[nomorezorro]

it's funny that caleb developed a reputation as a guy who can hold the ball forever and freelance because his team is so much more talented than their opponents, because it really is hard to overstate how brutal this USC team is outside of a select few players

that being said, i am concerned about his continued inability to adapt to the reality that his line sucks now and most of his receivers do too. gimme at least one game where you're not putting the ball on the ground. (and at the same time, you see he's capable of putting together drives where he's getting the ball out of his hands and hitting dudes perfectly in stride on slants and it's hard to ignore the potential there. the sooner he gets out of that system the better imo)

[nomorezorro]

i am verging closer to the idea that mhj+jayden daniels is a better option than caleb+[some other prospect], especially if you can trade down some to draft daniels. but that's just because i reeeeeealllly like daniels

[Almost Retired]

Where's the love for Bo Nix? 78% completion percentage, 300 yds/game, 25 TD's, 2 INT, quick release, strong arm, much improved decisionmaking, mobile, good size (6'2", 225). Of the guys I've seen, he's impressed me the most. He goes head-to-head against Caleb Williams tonight so it should be interesting.

Will be a 25 after his rookie year & wasn't a great player at Auburn. Probably goes in round 3.

No way. He's a mid First Rounder. Too many teams are going to be looking for a QB. We might see 5 QBs taken in the First Round. Williams, Maye, Nix, McCarthy and Penix. Jayden Daniels and Quinn Ewers could go 2nd Round.

[Almost Retired]

Where's the love for Bo Nix? 78% completion percentage, 300 yds/game, 25 TD's, 2 INT, quick release, strong arm, much improved decisionmaking, mobile, good size (6'2", 225). Of the guys I've seen, he's impressed me the most. He goes head-to-head against Caleb Williams tonight so it should be interesting.

Will be a 25 after his rookie year & wasn't a great player at Auburn. Probably goes in round 3.

I like Nix but have been trying to do a deep dive on 2024 QB's, and I'm really coming around on Penix if we trade down with one of our picks. He checks all the boxes but obviously has the injury history. With that said, he's elusive in the pocket, can make all the throws, and is probably the best "processor" of the bunch. The injury history might be a blessing in disguise if we can trade down to #15 and grab him.

I'm also low key loving Ewers as a raw prospect with the best natural arm talent of any QB prospect. I just worry we don't have the coaching staff to properly develop him.

Penix without the knee injury history would probably go #1. He throws the most beautiful downfield passes. Perfect speed. Perfect spirals. Perfect trajectory. Deadly accuracy. I'm a big Longhorns fan. I'd love to see the Bears pick up any number of Texas Players. T'Vondre Sweat and Xavier Worthy in particular. But I like Adonai Mitchell and Jaylan Ford too. I'm just not that high on Ewers. He is a notch below the other top QB prospects. Good arm strength but he can be inaccurate. I'd pass on him.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

CW had an awful line and brutal defense. He’s always playing catch up and has no time to throw and still keeps his team in the league.

I understand the perceived baggage but I think he plays free and with weapons would be absolutely elite.

Are we already making these excuses for him and he isn’t even playing in the NFL with grown a$$ men yet? I’ve soured on him, I just don’t want to go through a JF experience version 2.0.

[Jeffster81]

you think there is at least a 95% chance that caleb and drake are not franchise-caliber nfl QBs? because that's the kind of confidence that a guarantee requires. so sorry, but your confidence level is sheer nonsense. espn prospect grades since 2013:

97 lawrence, winston
96 young

94 stroud, burrow, darnold
93 wilson, tua, mariota
92 lance, rosen, allen

91 fields, mayfield, richardson, levis, wentz, goff, bortles
90 jones, willis, pickett, love, murray, haskins, manziel
89 herbert, lock, trubisky, bridgewater, geno
88 finley, watson
87 jackson

mahomes was 87 or lower

if you're waiting for a trevor lawrence-level prospect as a GM, you're almost certainly going to be out of a job. you have to take swings at 2nd tier prospects at QB. there's a reason they still often go at the top of the draft (as do some of the 3rd tier!). and caleb will certainly be at least a 2nd tier prospect

and again, if you already have a proven performer at a position, taking an "elite talent" who is UNproven at the pro level...and paying him significantly more to boot, is a poor use of resources. the LT job SHOULD be jones's to win/lose over the remainder of the season

I care very little about ESPN confidence level. What I care about is what I see from both and what I see from both is future NFL average. Sure, they both should be good QB's, but good QB's should NOT go #1 or #2, only elite talent. The Bears should have a chance at least one if not two elite talents, and I don't want to passover those talents because of Caleb effin Williams or Drake freaking Maye.

I agree with former Bengal/Rams OL Andrew Whitworth when he said the Bears should pass on the QB's and continue to stockpile offensive talent like the 49ers did. Passing on Fashanu/Marvin Harrison Jr for either QBs is a bigger mistake than passing on the QB's and I suspect Poles is not going to be enamored with either player, to be honest.

So yeah, I am dying on this hill. Screw the QB's in this draft. Not one of them is worth a top 5 pick.