2023 Season

[thesack12]

As for the Chase Young addition, considering the cost and potential upside there isn't really much reason not to like the trade. Even if Young walks in the offseason, it will still have been worth it and not only because 9ers would get a compensatory for him. All they gave up is a very late 3rd, and 9ers finally have their full allotment of picks next year + a few extra compensatories and the 4th for Lance. No way all those rookies would be able to make the team, so it was worth moving a pick for help now. I still think 9ers could use a consolidation trade to get more quality over quantity in their draft picks. Young's cap hit is basically equivalent to league minimum, so there aren't any ramifications there either.

As an aside, at some point they are going to have to stop dumping all these resources into the DLine while neglecting other problem areas like CB and OL. They have invested an insane amount of capital into it, yet the position group's performance remains quite underwhelming. I get that Bosa is the only high end edge rusher, which is a valid point. Still there are 3 different dudes being paid like game wreckers (Bosa, Hargrave, Armstead), a 1st round pick (Kinlaw), a 2nd round pick (Drake Jackson, whom BTW I never liked that pick and we are getting close to reaching bust territory with him) and now Young (who represents a 3rd round pick) and Randy Gregory. They also have quality depth along the line as well, to be able to keep dudes fresh.

There is absolutely no justifiable reason why the Dline has gone on a 3 game long stretch of invisibility. With that kind of talent, payroll, draft capital, and depth along the Dline, a bad game from them should still be above average by leaguewide standards. That group should be routinely dominating games. There is zero excuse why they have been on the prolonged stretch of not impacting games they are currently on.

Which brings me to a semi-side note. Good defense/Dlines are supposed to not only be consistently good but also rise to the occassion in clutch moments. This defense has not done that. Whereas last week, the Eagles got 3 HUGE game changing sacks on Dak in closing moments of that Philly/Dallas game. 9er defense needs to step the hell up.

[Jikkle]

There is absolutely no justifiable reason why the Dline has gone on a 3 game long stretch of invisibility. With that kind of talent, payroll, draft capital, and depth along the Dline, a bad game from them should still be above average by leaguewide standards. That group should be routinely dominating games. There is zero excuse why they have been on the prolonged stretch of not impacting games they are currently on.

I see there being two critically major flaws on this team one on each side of the ball.

On defense while I won't try to excuse Wilks but a large problem is that I believe that he wants and the team needs our DBs to play more press man and our guys just aren't up to the task. It's not that we're not getting pressure it's just that the secondary gives up these huge cushions and opposing offense just get the ball out quickly before the pressure can get home. So if the opposing offense has a decent enough offensive line they can just play pitch and catch the entire time.

We saw today's game the pressure have success in part because the Jags don't have a great offensive line but they played more press man and that allowed the pressure to get home. Of course we ate some penalities because of it but I think they'll take them if the benefits outweigh the negatives.

I think we forget that Ryans when he first started as a DC tried to play more man on defense but had to abandon it because the DBs just couldn't do it and kept giving up big plays or penalities. So it seems like Wilks is going through that same phase trying to figure out how to work with what he's got.

The second major issue is the offensive line. If we don't have a big schematic advantage over the defense and the defensive line isn't fooled it's simply going to be a bad day on offense because the offensive line can't win on it's own so we can't just defeat a defense when it boils down to lining up and just beating them physically on the LOS. It's why they are terrible in situations like short yardage and why we struggle to come back in games once it because a scenario where we have to pass.

[49er4life1979]

There is absolutely no justifiable reason why the Dline has gone on a 3 game long stretch of invisibility. With that kind of talent, payroll, draft capital, and depth along the Dline, a bad game from them should still be above average by leaguewide standards. That group should be routinely dominating games. There is zero excuse why they have been on the prolonged stretch of not impacting games they are currently on.

I see there being two critically major flaws on this team one on each side of the ball.

On defense while I won't try to excuse Wilks but a large problem is that I believe that he wants and the team needs our DBs to play more press man and our guys just aren't up to the task. It's not that we're not getting pressure it's just that the secondary gives up these huge cushions and opposing offense just get the ball out quickly before the pressure can get home. So if the opposing offense has a decent enough offensive line they can just play pitch and catch the entire time.

We saw today's game the pressure have success in part because the Jags don't have a great offensive line but they played more press man and that allowed the pressure to get home. Of course we ate some penalities because of it but I think they'll take them if the benefits outweigh the negatives.

I think we forget that Ryans when he first started as a DC tried to play more man on defense but had to abandon it because the DBs just couldn't do it and kept giving up big plays or penalities. So it seems like Wilks is going through that same phase trying to figure out how to work with what he's got.

The second major issue is the offensive line. If we don't have a big schematic advantage over the defense and the defensive line isn't fooled it's simply going to be a bad day on offense because the offensive line can't win on it's own so we can't just defeat a defense when it boils down to lining up and just beating them physically on the LOS. It's why they are terrible in situations like short yardage and why we struggle to come back in games once it because a scenario where we have to pass.

I think you are spot on. We played press man and got 3 penalites (2 illegal contact by Mooney and 1 PI by Thomas) - but if we can just keep them to a minimum they'll live with it. On the OL, definitely need a new RT. Another poster mentioned giving Jaylon Moore a try there. McKivitz while he's been oveall decent. he's much better suited as a swing/backup T then a full time starter.

[Pattersonca65]

There is absolutely no justifiable reason why the Dline has gone on a 3 game long stretch of invisibility. With that kind of talent, payroll, draft capital, and depth along the Dline, a bad game from them should still be above average by leaguewide standards. That group should be routinely dominating games. There is zero excuse why they have been on the prolonged stretch of not impacting games they are currently on.

I see there being two critically major flaws on this team one on each side of the ball.

On defense while I won't try to excuse Wilks but a large problem is that I believe that he wants and the team needs our DBs to play more press man and our guys just aren't up to the task. It's not that we're not getting pressure it's just that the secondary gives up these huge cushions and opposing offense just get the ball out quickly before the pressure can get home. So if the opposing offense has a decent enough offensive line they can just play pitch and catch the entire time.

We saw today's game the pressure have success in part because the Jags don't have a great offensive line but they played more press man and that allowed the pressure to get home. Of course we ate some penalities because of it but I think they'll take them if the benefits outweigh the negatives.

I think we forget that Ryans when he first started as a DC tried to play more man on defense but had to abandon it because the DBs just couldn't do it and kept giving up big plays or penalities. So it seems like Wilks is going through that same phase trying to figure out how to work with what he's got.

The second major issue is the offensive line. If we don't have a big schematic advantage over the defense and the defensive line isn't fooled it's simply going to be a bad day on offense because the offensive line can't win on it's own so we can't just defeat a defense when it boils down to lining up and just beating them physically on the LOS. It's why they are terrible in situations like short yardage and why we struggle to come back in games once it because a scenario where we have to pass.

I think you are spot on. We played press man and got 3 penalites (2 illegal contact by Mooney and 1 PI by Thomas) - but if we can just keep them to a minimum they'll live with it. On the OL, definitely need a new RT. Another poster mentioned giving Jaylon Moore a try there. McKivitz while he's been oveall decent. he's much better suited as a swing/backup T then a full time starter.

Jaylon Moore has not inspired alot of confidence with his play to date. IDK if it is worth upsetting continunity for Moore. If Shanahan makes the change and sees something there I am ok with it but I question whether Moore will be an upgrade

[CrimsonCrew]

There is absolutely no justifiable reason why the Dline has gone on a 3 game long stretch of invisibility. With that kind of talent, payroll, draft capital, and depth along the Dline, a bad game from them should still be above average by leaguewide standards. That group should be routinely dominating games. There is zero excuse why they have been on the prolonged stretch of not impacting games they are currently on.

I see there being two critically major flaws on this team one on each side of the ball.

On defense while I won't try to excuse Wilks but a large problem is that I believe that he wants and the team needs our DBs to play more press man and our guys just aren't up to the task. It's not that we're not getting pressure it's just that the secondary gives up these huge cushions and opposing offense just get the ball out quickly before the pressure can get home. So if the opposing offense has a decent enough offensive line they can just play pitch and catch the entire time.

We saw today's game the pressure have success in part because the Jags don't have a great offensive line but they played more press man and that allowed the pressure to get home. Of course we ate some penalities because of it but I think they'll take them if the benefits outweigh the negatives.

I think we forget that Ryans when he first started as a DC tried to play more man on defense but had to abandon it because the DBs just couldn't do it and kept giving up big plays or penalities. So it seems like Wilks is going through that same phase trying to figure out how to work with what he's got.

The second major issue is the offensive line. If we don't have a big schematic advantage over the defense and the defensive line isn't fooled it's simply going to be a bad day on offense because the offensive line can't win on it's own so we can't just defeat a defense when it boils down to lining up and just beating them physically on the LOS. It's why they are terrible in situations like short yardage and why we struggle to come back in games once it because a scenario where we have to pass.

Re: the OL, I wonder if Feliciano might take over for Burford once Banks returned. Feliciano looked pretty good from what I saw, and Burford has been a total liability in pass-blocking. I'd prefer for Burford to beat him out, as he's young and still has some upside, but he's probably been our weakest link on the OL. Upgrading that spot would go a long way toward shoring up the unit. McKivitz has been alright - admittedly not great. And Brendel is pretty up-and-down, but seemed to play better yesterday.

[Samurai]

There is absolutely no justifiable reason why the Dline has gone on a 3 game long stretch of invisibility. With that kind of talent, payroll, draft capital, and depth along the Dline, a bad game from them should still be above average by leaguewide standards. That group should be routinely dominating games. There is zero excuse why they have been on the prolonged stretch of not impacting games they are currently on.

I see there being two critically major flaws on this team one on each side of the ball.

On defense while I won't try to excuse Wilks but a large problem is that I believe that he wants and the team needs our DBs to play more press man and our guys just aren't up to the task. It's not that we're not getting pressure it's just that the secondary gives up these huge cushions and opposing offense just get the ball out quickly before the pressure can get home. So if the opposing offense has a decent enough offensive line they can just play pitch and catch the entire time.

We saw today's game the pressure have success in part because the Jags don't have a great offensive line but they played more press man and that allowed the pressure to get home. Of course we ate some penalities because of it but I think they'll take them if the benefits outweigh the negatives.

I think we forget that Ryans when he first started as a DC tried to play more man on defense but had to abandon it because the DBs just couldn't do it and kept giving up big plays or penalities. So it seems like Wilks is going through that same phase trying to figure out how to work with what he's got.

The second major issue is the offensive line. If we don't have a big schematic advantage over the defense and the defensive line isn't fooled it's simply going to be a bad day on offense because the offensive line can't win on it's own so we can't just defeat a defense when it boils down to lining up and just beating them physically on the LOS. It's why they are terrible in situations like short yardage and why we struggle to come back in games once it because a scenario where we have to pass.

Re: the OL, I wonder if Feliciano might take over for Burford once Banks returned. Feliciano looked pretty good from what I saw, and Burford has been a total liability in pass-blocking. I'd prefer for Burford to beat him out, as he's young and still has some upside, but he's probably been our weakest link on the OL. Upgrading that spot would go a long way toward shoring up the unit. McKivitz has been alright - admittedly not great. And Brendel is pretty up-and-down, but seemed to play better yesterday.

As an fyi, Feliciano was our 4th highest PFF graded player (81.7) on offense yesterday behind only Purdy (91.7), Kittle 84.8) and CMC (84.4). And Brendel was next at 74.1. If Feliciano keeps this up, he clearly seems to earn a starting spot once Banks returns. Don't know if Feliciano is better suited for G or RT but I would trust our coaching staff to sort that out. And while PFF isn't everything, for Feliciano to be our 4th highest offensive player against one of the league's top defenses coming into yesterday's game shouldn't be overlooked.

And while we're at it, should also mention that Jaylon Moore (48.8) and McKivitz (55.5) were among our three lowest offensive performers (along with Charlie Woerner).

[CrimsonCrew]

I see there being two critically major flaws on this team one on each side of the ball.

On defense while I won't try to excuse Wilks but a large problem is that I believe that he wants and the team needs our DBs to play more press man and our guys just aren't up to the task. It's not that we're not getting pressure it's just that the secondary gives up these huge cushions and opposing offense just get the ball out quickly before the pressure can get home. So if the opposing offense has a decent enough offensive line they can just play pitch and catch the entire time.

We saw today's game the pressure have success in part because the Jags don't have a great offensive line but they played more press man and that allowed the pressure to get home. Of course we ate some penalities because of it but I think they'll take them if the benefits outweigh the negatives.

I think we forget that Ryans when he first started as a DC tried to play more man on defense but had to abandon it because the DBs just couldn't do it and kept giving up big plays or penalities. So it seems like Wilks is going through that same phase trying to figure out how to work with what he's got.

The second major issue is the offensive line. If we don't have a big schematic advantage over the defense and the defensive line isn't fooled it's simply going to be a bad day on offense because the offensive line can't win on it's own so we can't just defeat a defense when it boils down to lining up and just beating them physically on the LOS. It's why they are terrible in situations like short yardage and why we struggle to come back in games once it because a scenario where we have to pass.

Re: the OL, I wonder if Feliciano might take over for Burford once Banks returned. Feliciano looked pretty good from what I saw, and Burford has been a total liability in pass-blocking. I'd prefer for Burford to beat him out, as he's young and still has some upside, but he's probably been our weakest link on the OL. Upgrading that spot would go a long way toward shoring up the unit. McKivitz has been alright - admittedly not great. And Brendel is pretty up-and-down, but seemed to play better yesterday.

As an fyi, Feliciano was our 4th highest PFF graded player (81.7) on offense yesterday behind only Purdy (91.7), Kittle 84.8) and CMC (84.4). And Brendel was next at 74.1. If Feliciano keeps this up, he clearly seems to earn a starting spot once Banks returns. Don't know if Feliciano is better suited for G or RT but I would trust our coaching staff to sort that out. And while PFF isn't everything, for Feliciano to be our 4th highest offensive player against one of the league's top defenses coming into yesterday's game shouldn't be overlooked.

And while we're at it, should also mention that Jaylon Moore (48.8) and McKivitz (55.5) were among our three lowest offensive performers (along with Charlie Woerner).

I think the team views Feliciano as a pure guard. They've seemingly gone with Feliciano backing up the inside spots, Moore at LT, and Pryor at LT. And Burford has been worse than McKivitz anyway. Certainly in terms of pass-blocking. Not to mention it's somewhat easier to help out an OT with chipping, etc., than an interior player.

[Harry Palmer]

Been saying it for a while and nothing has changed my mind: our window is Trent Williams. Their absolute number 1 organizational priority should be identifying potential replacements. This draft better feature the lines a lot, especially OL, but even that, unless they think there’s an anchor they can get ahold of, it’s gotta be FA. Anyone know the league enough to know if any stud LTs are even remotely sniffing free agency in the next couple years? (I’m expecting not, which is the problem.)

[CrimsonCrew]

Been saying it for a while and nothing has changed my mind: our window is Trent Williams. Their absolute number 1 organizational priority should be identifying potential replacements. This draft better feature the lines a lot, especially OL, but even that, unless they think there’s an anchor they can get ahold of, it’s gotta be FA. Anyone know the league enough to know if any stud LTs are even remotely sniffing free agency in the next couple years? (I’m expecting not, which is the problem.)

I've harped on it a lot, but I was so pissed when they didn't draft an OT in the third this year. Taking Latu instead of addressing OT was appalling IMO. It was such a glaring need given Williams' age and the uncertainty around McKivitz, and there was talent there. We took Latu at 101. Nick Saldiveri (probably an OG, but played OT in college, and it's not like our OGs have been great) went 103, Blake Freeland went 106, Dawand Jones went 111, Braeden Daniels (also maybe an OG) went 118, Carter Warren went 120. Any of those guys would have been a better pick than Latu, who I think would have been there in the 5th or 6th round.

Getting a guy who can contribute as a rookie at that point in the draft is somewhat unlikely, but why not give them a year or two to develop before we ask them to replace the best LT in the league?

Re: FA, it's pretty grim, I think. Tyron Smith is almost certainly the cream of the crop, but he's 32, will probably be expensive, and has injury issues. The Cowboys' RT is also a FA, I think. He's got a 47 PFF grade. Jonah Williams is Cincy's RT, and has put together a solid year with a 67 grade after disappointing for several. He'd probably be a decent fit in our system, but definitely won't replace Trent and will probably cost about what McGlinchey did.

With our cap situation, I can't see us signing a big-ticket OT. We've got to really focus on developing a few guys. Cupboard is totally bare right now.

[Pattersonca65]

I watched part of the Denver game last night. McClinchey was called for a false start. One of the announcers made the comment that McGlinchey was the most penalized offensive lineman on the team. This made me want to do a comparison at this point in the season. According to PFF,

McClinchey - 61.9 PFF
Penalties - 4th
Sacks - 5th

McKivitz - 58.7 PFF
Penalties - 52nd
Sacks - 6th

McClinchey earned a slightly higher grade, probably due to run blocking. But not much difference. So far, passing on signing McClinchey for big money appears was the right call.

[CrimsonCrew]

I was thinking a little about the backup RB situation, and Mitchell's struggles in particular. I think I have a bead on the issue, at least to an extent. It's all about the role. Mitchell is a pretty good starting RB in our system. He's got pretty good speed, physicality, and he excels running to the outside. He does fine inside when there are clearly defined holes. But he doesn't have great vision or footwork. He's kind of an anti-Frank Gore, who had exceptional vision, patience, footwork to run up the middle and churn out those tough yards. That's not Mitchell's game.

I think he's good as a general backup to McCaffrey. And if McCaffrey were to go down with an injury, he's probably the guy I would want to take over as the primary back. But he's not well-suited to the change-of-pace role. His game - minus the elite receiving - is pretty similar to McCaffrey's, and neither guy is great pounding the ball up the middle. I think Mason is better in that role. He's physical, he seems to have pretty good vision and instincts for it. He's shown he can come in for a few carries here and there and be successful as an alternative to McCaffrey's running game. Mitchell seems like he needs more time to settle in, and when he's not getting it, his carries just aren't typically all that effective.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. I'd like to see them give Mason a few more chances in short yardage situations, but I get that we may be tipping our hand a bit if he's in on those. But you just can't have CMC in on every down, and at this point, I think Mason is the better complement.

[wco81]

Rex Ryan said on one of the ESPN shows that strength of the offensive linemen is a big factor for success in the red zone. That certainly seems to be the case with the Eagles.

For the 49ers, only Trent Williams seems to be the only one who could physically dominate the guy lining up across from him. Sure athletic guards can pull and take out LBs and DBs and be effective in the run game that way but in the red zone, you don't see as much outside runs.

Last 49ers OL who could physically dominate was Larry Allen I believe, at the tail end of his career. I remember stories about such a big time NFL prospect at Sonoma State.

Across all the coaches and systems the 49ers have had, they don't seem to go for drafting the dominant OL. Maybe Iaputi was the last one they drafted who was like that.

Obviously 49ers have been able win across all these decades with smaller but more athletic linemen. Maybe the cold weather teams gravitate to the big powerful linemen more and in warmer weather, the requirements are different.

[Samurai]

There are reports now that 7 teams had contacted the Broncos about trading for Pat Surtain before the trade deadline, including the Eagles and the Niners. But at the end, the Broncos decided not to trade him. Don't know how much we offered but at least it sounds like Lynch tried to get him. Hopefully adding Womack and Luter into the mix will give Wilks the right combination of CB's that he can mix and match to maximize their strengths and downplay their weaknesses.

[Pattersonca65]

There are reports now that 7 teams had contacted the Broncos about trading for Pat Surtain before the trade deadline, including the Eagles and the Niners. But at the end, the Broncos decided not to trade him. Don't know how much we offered but at least it sounds like Lynch tried to get him. Hopefully adding Womack and Luter into the mix will give Wilks the right combination of CB's that he can mix and match to maximize their strengths and downplay their weaknesses.

I think they did try to obtain a quality corner but tough. I read that Denver didn't really want to part with Surtain. The other corner the 49ers inquired about the team had a high asking price. Corners and Offensive Lineman are premium positions that don't cone cheap.

[CrimsonCrew]

There are reports now that 7 teams had contacted the Broncos about trading for Pat Surtain before the trade deadline, including the Eagles and the Niners. But at the end, the Broncos decided not to trade him. Don't know how much we offered but at least it sounds like Lynch tried to get him. Hopefully adding Womack and Luter into the mix will give Wilks the right combination of CB's that he can mix and match to maximize their strengths and downplay their weaknesses.

Yeah, Lynch was definitely in the market at corner. He inquired about Surtain and Jaylon Johnson, but the asking price was too high. I found the criticism of Lynch for not obtaining a corner (loudly from Cohn) was particularly silly as none of the big-name guys were moved.

Rasul Douglas was the only CB who was traded at the deadline. I guess you could argue we should have been in on him, but CBs are awfully scheme specific. I don't have a great sense for whether he would have fit ours. At this point, it is what it is. Got to hope the guys on the roster can make a difference. Thomas has played well during a playoff run before, and Womack should be back soon. I don't expect Luter to be activated, but if he is, it is presumably because he really impressed during his three-week tryout.

[Samurai]

Shanahan said that Hufanga "most likely" has a torn ACL and is out for the year. Sounds like Ji'Ayir Brown will have some big shoes to fill the rest of the way.

[arich35]

Shanahan said that Hufanga "most likely" has a torn ACL and is out for the year. Sounds like Ji'Ayir Brown will have some big shoes to fill the rest of the way.

First big injury this year. Huf had regressed this year a bit, Brown seems to be a similar player so let's hope he can take to the starting position quickly

[49er4life1979]

Shanahan said that Hufanga "most likely" has a torn ACL and is out for the year. Sounds like Ji'Ayir Brown will have some big shoes to fill the rest of the way.

First big injury this year. Huf had regressed this year a bit, Brown seems to be a similar player so let's hope he can take to the starting position quickly

Yea a tough break for Huf indeed. Brown is definitely a similar player which includes neither being particularly fast. Last draft a few scouts thought Brown was a more natural SS and not the position he was drafted to take over FS. Although the 10 picks last two college seasons indicate he's a ball hawk. So we'll see. Anyone know if Luter got any snaps today? Didn't hear his name which is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Samurai]

Shanahan said that Hufanga "most likely" has a torn ACL and is out for the year. Sounds like Ji'Ayir Brown will have some big shoes to fill the rest of the way.

First big injury this year. Huf had regressed this year a bit, Brown seems to be a similar player so let's hope he can take to the starting position quickly

Yea a tough break for Huf indeed. Brown is definitely a similar player which includes neither being particularly fast. Last draft a few scouts thought Brown was a more natural SS and not the position he was drafted to take over FS. Although the 10 picks last two college seasons indicate he's a ball hawk. So we'll see. Anyone know if Luter got any snaps today? Didn't hear his name which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Assistant GM Peters noted that the team saw a lot of Hunfanga in Brown, which was a factor in why they drafted him. Both had reputations as hard hitters in college. Brown is faster based on their pre-draft 40, 10-yard splits, 20-yard splits and 20-yard shuttle and Brown had 18 reps in the bench press to 12 for Hufanga. Hufanga, of course, made up for his athletic shortcomings with his football IQ and instincts; we will see how long Brown's learning curve is to pick up those attributes. Unfortunately with Seattle, Eagles and Seattle on the schedule, rookie mistakes could be disastrous for our Super Bowl aspirations.

[49er4life1979]

First big injury this year. Huf had regressed this year a bit, Brown seems to be a similar player so let's hope he can take to the starting position quickly

Yea a tough break for Huf indeed. Brown is definitely a similar player which includes neither being particularly fast. Last draft a few scouts thought Brown was a more natural SS and not the position he was drafted to take over FS. Although the 10 picks last two college seasons indicate he's a ball hawk. So we'll see. Anyone know if Luter got any snaps today? Didn't hear his name which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Assistant GM Peters noted that the team saw a lot of Hunfanga in Brown, which was a factor in why they drafted him. Both had reputations as hard hitters in college. Brown is faster based on their pre-draft 40, 10-yard splits, 20-yard splits and 20-yard shuttle and Brown had 18 reps in the bench press to 12 for Hufanga. Hufanga, of course, made up for his athletic shortcomings with his football IQ and instincts; we will see how long Brown's learning curve is to pick up those attributes. Unfortunately with Seattle, Eagles and Seattle on the schedule, rookie mistakes could be disastrous for our Super Bowl aspirations.

Seattle is very beatable imo. Especially now since Geno is banged up. We get this win on Thursday we pretty much win the division.