Zach LaVine, Bulls Open To Exploring Trade

Post #1 » by **RealGM Wiretap** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:17 pm

Zach LaVine and the Chicago Bulls are increasingly open about exploring a trade as he continues Year 2 of his five-year, $215 million deal.

Via Shams Charania/The Athletic

elmdawgg69 · Post #2 » by **elmdawgg69** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:32 pm

They’ll have to dump him for second rounders and expirings like the Wizards dumped Beal. I could see the Sixers trading their veteran trash for him. Would the Knicks trade RJ Barrett?

JordanDumont42 · Post #3 » by **JordanDumont42** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:49 pm

elmdawgg69 wrote:They’ll have to dump him for second rounders and expirings like the Wizards dumped Beal. I could see the Sixers trading their veteran trash for him. Would the Knicks trade RJ Barrett?

Full disclosure I am a Knicks fan. But - RJ isnt perfect, hes really solid and has shown a lot of growth over the past year. Maybe it wont last but he's playing great so far this year. While in a vacuum LaVine is of course a better player, I think any smart NBA team would rather have RJ at 4 years for 88 million than lavine at 4 years 164 million. Offensively its not close, but RJ is already better at every other part of the game than LaVine will ever be. And this isnt LaVine hate, that is a fact. LaVine doesnt guard anyone.

HotelVitale · Post #4 » by **HotelVitale** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 8:32 pm

elmdawgg69 wrote:They’ll have to dump him for second rounders and expirings like the Wizards dumped Beal. I could see the Sixers trading their veteran trash for him. Would the Knicks trade RJ Barrett?

They won't. The Wizards only had to do that because Beal had a no-trade clause so he could 100% dictate where he was going--the decision was either keep him or let him choose his destination (and his return package). Lavine also makes less than Beal (about $44m year instead of $50m+), is 2 years younger, and has a little less serious injury concerns.

I don't think Lavine will get back a giant superstar package but he'll definitely get more than just a salary dump return.

JordanDumont42 · Post #5 » by **JordanDumont42** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 8:36 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
elmdawgg69 wrote:They’ll have to dump him for second rounders and expirings like the Wizards dumped Beal. I could see the Sixers trading their veteran trash for him. Would the Knicks trade RJ Barrett?

They won't. The Wizards only had to do that because Beal had a no-trade clause so he could 100% dictate where he was going--the decision was either keep him or let him choose his destination (and his return package). Lavine also makes less than Beal (about $44m year instead of $50m+), is 2 years younger, and has a little less serious injury concerns.

I don't think Lavine will get back a giant superstar package but he'll definitely get more than just a salary dump return.

Agreed - I think LaVine could be a good fit for a lot of young teams that dont have shooting. He'd be a good fit for the Magic IMO

Scalabrine · Post #6 » by **Scalabrine** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:09 pm

elmdawgg69 wrote:They’ll have to dump him for second rounders and expirings like the Wizards dumped Beal. I could see the Sixers trading their veteran trash for him. Would the Knicks trade RJ Barrett?

I would be very reluctant to trade RJ for him. I feel like Lavine caps the teams ceiling as a 2nd round exit. He'd be our oldest core player and he'd also be our highest paid player by quite a large margin. RJ at least still has potential to grow, his contract is pretty good, and he can be a piece that would interest teams in a trade for a bigger star than Lavine.

AmusingFiddle · Post #7 » by **AmusingFiddle** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:00 pm

Grizzlies, maybe?

LakersLegacy · Post #8 » by **LakersLegacy** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:33 pm

Similar pay scale to Joker, Giannis, Davis, Tatum, Embid
Same contract tier - fair value assessment, bang for the buck

To the clippers for Harden + Westbrook would be great for
Inglewood

TimeisIllmatic · Post #9 » by **TimeisIllmatic** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:35 pm

LaVine + DDR to Sixers?

Wingy · Post #10 » by **Wingy** » Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:13 pm

Scalabrine wrote:I would be very reluctant to trade RJ for him. I feel like Lavine caps the teams ceiling as a 2nd round exit. He'd be our oldest core player and he'd also be our highest paid player by quite a large margin. RJ at least still has potential to grow, his contract is pretty good, and he can be a piece that would interest teams in a trade for a bigger star than Lavine.

Lavine has plenty of warts and I get why some teams wouldn’t want him. But I don’t think RJ has all that much value either. He’s off to a nice start, but looking at his career numbers, we all see that he hasn’t even come particularly close to shooting league average efficiency. Never been impressed with the eye test to boot.

Not to compare directly to Lavine as sure, I could see someone preferring youth and lesser salary. I just don’t see RJ as a plus piece. As a Bulls fan, I wouldn’t want him as part of a Lavine package.

3ptLion · Post #11 » by **3ptLion** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:15 am

As a Knick fan I don't want Lavine. He doesn't get us any closer to a conference final truly and he takes (though he makes) a lot of poor shots.

elmdawgg69 wrote:They’ll have to dump him for second rounders and expirings like the Wizards dumped Beal. I could see the Sixers trading their veteran trash for him. Would the Knicks trade RJ Barrett?

Pickled Prunes · Post #12 » by **Pickled Prunes** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:51 am

Wingy wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:I would be very reluctant to trade RJ for him. I feel like Lavine caps the teams ceiling as a 2nd round exit. He'd be our oldest core player and he'd also be our highest paid player by quite a large margin. RJ at least still has potential to grow, his contract is pretty good, and he can be a piece that would interest teams in a trade for a bigger star than Lavine.

Lavine has plenty of warts and I get why some teams wouldn’t want him. But I don’t think RJ has all that much value either. He’s off to a nice start, but looking at his career numbers, we all see that he hasn’t even come particularly close to shooting league average efficiency. Never been impressed with the eye test to boot.

Not to compare directly to Lavine as sure, I could see someone preferring youth and lesser salary. I just don’t see RJ as a plus piece. As a Bulls fan, I wouldn’t want him as part of a Lavine package.

The contract is the issue. CHI will definitely find a team willing to give up a few 1sts for LaVine, but his contract is double that of RJ's. LaVine is the better player of the two, but he would need to be all-NBA to live up to that contract. Not likely!

On the other hand, RJ could outperform his contract without ever making an all-star team. He probably won't outperform his contract, but his value could spike as the go to scorer for a rebuilding team. LaVine's value can only go down.

Wingy · Post #13 » by **Wingy** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:26 am

Pickled Prunes wrote:The contract is the issue. CHI will definitely find a team willing to give up a few 1sts for LaVine, but his contract is double that of RJ's. LaVine is the better player of the two, but he would need to be all-NBA to live up to that contract. Not likely!

On the other hand, RJ could outperform his contract without ever making an all-star team. He probably won't outperform his contract, but his value could spike as the go to scorer for a rebuilding team. LaVine's value can only go down.

Yup, I cited salary in my post. I just don’t see it with RJ. His value will only potentially spike with front office idiots like…the Bulls very own Arturas Karnisovas who can be fooled by counting stats (hello Vuc!). I’m not even much of a metrics-oriented fan, but even the most rudimentary understanding of some of the advanced metrics makes one give RJ the stink eye. That and his middling athleticism. Who knows. Some guys buck early trends, and maybe he’ll be one of the very few.

Pickled Prunes · Post #14 » by **Pickled Prunes** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:16 pm

Wingy wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:The contract is the issue. CHI will definitely find a team willing to give up a few 1sts for LaVine, but his contract is double that of RJ's. LaVine is the better player of the two, but he would need to be all-NBA to live up to that contract. Not likely!

On the other hand, RJ could outperform his contract without ever making an all-star team. He probably won't outperform his contract, but his value could spike as the go to scorer for a rebuilding team. LaVine's value can only go down.

Yup, I cited salary in my post. I just don’t see it with RJ. His value will only potentially spike with front office idiots like…the Bulls very own Arturas Karnisovas who can be fooled by counting stats (hello Vuc!). I’m not even much of a metrics-oriented fan, but even the most rudimentary understanding of some of the advanced metrics makes one give RJ the stink eye. That and his middling athleticism. Who knows. Some guys buck early trends, and maybe he’ll be one of the very few.

Yeah, I mean we are talking about two players I don't believe in. But taking into account cost and health, I just believe in LaVine less. I don't honestly think either team should make that trade but if CHI got RJ and two protected 1sts, that would be a win. I don't see a way that the team getting LaVine wins the trade unless it really is for a Beal-like package. Hard to see that happening.

How do you feel about Lowry, Caleb Martin and a couple of 1sts? Would you rather have Herro or Lowry's expiring deal?

Vuc averaging 18/11/3 is the least of the issues in CHI. At $18m per, he is on a reasonable contract. Actually, the CHI roster is loaded with good contacts. What they don't have is a coach with any type of plan. They should really be looking at a new coach before the make any moves, even if it's a coach that they see as the head of their rebuild. Donovan is an average coach on a good day and the Bulls haven't seen a good day since Lonzo went down. There is no reason that the talent on that roster shouldn't be looking at a 5-8 seed in the lEast. A coaching change is way overdue.

Scalabrine · Post #15 » by **Scalabrine** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:41 pm

Pickled Prunes wrote:
Wingy wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:The contract is the issue. CHI will definitely find a team willing to give up a few 1sts for LaVine, but his contract is double that of RJ's. LaVine is the better player of the two, but he would need to be all-NBA to live up to that contract. Not likely!

On the other hand, RJ could outperform his contract without ever making an all-star team. He probably won't outperform his contract, but his value could spike as the go to scorer for a rebuilding team. LaVine's value can only go down.

Yup, I cited salary in my post. I just don’t see it with RJ. His value will only potentially spike with front office idiots like…the Bulls very own Arturas Karnisovas who can be fooled by counting stats (hello Vuc!). I’m not even much of a metrics-oriented fan, but even the most rudimentary understanding of some of the advanced metrics makes one give RJ the stink eye. That and his middling athleticism. Who knows. Some guys buck early trends, and maybe he’ll be one of the very few.

Yeah, I mean we are talking about two players I don't believe in. But taking into account cost and health, I just believe in LaVine less. I don't honestly think either team should make that trade but if CHI got RJ and two protected 1sts, that would be a win. I don't see a way that the team getting LaVine wins the trade unless it really is for a Beal-like package. Hard to see that happening.

How do you feel about Lowry, Caleb Martin and a couple of 1sts? Would you rather have Herro or Lowry's expiring deal?

Vuc averaging 18/11/3 is the least of the issues in CHI. At $18m per, he is on a reasonable contract. Actually, the CHI roster is loaded with good contacts. What they don't have is a coach with any type of plan. They should really be looking at a new coach before the make any moves, even if it's a coach that they see as the head of their rebuild. Donovan is an average coach on a good day and the Bulls haven't seen a good day since Lonzo went down. There is no reason that the talent on that roster shouldn't be looking at a 5-8 seed in the lEast. A coaching change is way overdue.

This team has run it's course. There is no way a new coach is going to change their issues. They don't have the flexibility to fix it. They are too good as currently constructed to be able to bottom out. This isn't me saying that a coaching change shouldn't happen, but it's also not the issue here. A Vuc/Derozan/Lavine core is at best a play-in team.

Pickled Prunes · Post #16 » by **Pickled Prunes** » Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:32 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
Pickled Prunes wrote:
Wingy wrote:
Yup, I cited salary in my post. I just don’t see it with RJ. His value will only potentially spike with front office idiots like…the Bulls very own Arturas Karnisovas who can be fooled by counting stats (hello Vuc!). I’m not even much of a metrics-oriented fan, but even the most rudimentary understanding of some of the advanced metrics makes one give RJ the stink eye. That and his middling athleticism. Who knows. Some guys buck early trends, and maybe he’ll be one of the very few.

Yeah, I mean we are talking about two players I don't believe in. But taking into account cost and health, I just believe in LaVine less. I don't honestly think either team should make that trade but if CHI got RJ and two protected 1sts, that would be a win. I don't see a way that the team getting LaVine wins the trade unless it really is for a Beal-like package. Hard to see that happening.

How do you feel about Lowry, Caleb Martin and a couple of 1sts? Would you rather have Herro or Lowry's expiring deal?

Vuc averaging 18/11/3 is the least of the issues in CHI. At $18m per, he is on a reasonable contract. Actually, the CHI roster is loaded with good contacts. What they don't have is a coach with any type of plan. They should really be looking at a new coach before the make any moves, even if it's a coach that they see as the head of their rebuild. Donovan is an average coach on a good day and the Bulls haven't seen a good day since Lonzo went down. There is no reason that the talent on that roster shouldn't be looking at a 5-8 seed in the lEast. A coaching change is way overdue.

This team has run it's course. There is no way a new coach is going to change their issues. They don't have the flexibility to fix it. They are too good as currently constructed to be able to bottom out. This isn't me saying that a coaching change shouldn't happen, but it's also not the issue here. A Vuc/Derozan/Lavine core is at best a play-in team.

I don't disagree. I don't see any team with LaVine on it contending, which limits the return they can get for him. So yes, he should be traded for the first decent offer. But I would fire the coach before I ate dinner tonight. As middling as this roster is, there is too much talent to be wondering if they will make the play in. Donovan is just such a blah HC. His teams tend to get worse over time. He lets his players fall into their bad habits rather than putting them into a position to succeed. I would definitely let another coach give this thing a run before I traded LaVine for pennies on the dollar. Obviously, if Donovan let OKC get worse each year as Westbrook and KD moved towards their prime, how can we expect him to get anything out of DeRozan and LaVine as they leave their primes?

I was calling for Donovan to get fired in his 2nd or 3rd season in OKC. He came in and fixed none of the issues left there by Scott Brooks and just let the players do their thing. And I called it a mistake the day CHI hired him. For a minute there CHI had Lonzo to call some plays and get them into their offense, but that's really the coaches job... and it is something that Donovan has always been reluctant to do.

Hire a new coach, and if things don't move in the right direction by New Years they can call it the first step of the rebuild. But if things do look a little better they might at least boost some of these guys trade value. They stopped listening to Donovan two seasons ago.