Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[tontoz]

I would definitely consider trading Poole/Jones before trading Kuzma.

[payitforward]

...Did the Washington Wizards trade for Jordan Poole to try to ...move him on in a future trade ... or to make him a cornerstone player of their post-Bradley Beal future?...

Interesting question....
Might be a good idea to think about the trade from another angle.

1. It seems 100% certain that GS planned to trade Jordan Poole last off season. No matter what & for whatever they could get.
2. It also seems likely that GS would have been on Bradley Beal's list of teams to which he'd accept a trade.
3. Yet, we didn't trade Brad for Jordan Poole (plus the rest of what we got in the next day's trade of CP3: Patrick Baldwin Jr., Ryan Rollins, a 2027 R2 pick, & top 20 protected 2030 R1 pick).

Why not?
Well, given that the GS deal took place right after the Phoenix deal, I speculate that it had been worked out in advance.

IOW, moving CP3 to GS for Poole, etc. was likely a done deal before we made the trade with the Suns to acquire CP3!

I.e., the GS trade was not something that became possible once we'd acquired CP3. Rather, to Will Dawkins, the two deals amounted to a single complex transaction in which Beal plus the #57 pick in the '23 draft brought us Jordan Poole, Landry Shamet, Ryan Rollins, Patrick Baldwin, a 2030 R1 pick, 4 future R1 pick swaps and 7 future R2 picks.

From this point of view, Poole simply looks like one commodity among many. I certainly don't think anyone needed to see him as "a cornerstone" of the future in order to do this overall deal.

If he's useful, great. If not, then at least his contract is a much smaller millstone than Brad's contract was.

[nate33]

I would definitely consider trading Poole/Jones before trading Kuzma.

Of course!

Unfortunately, nobody wants Poole right now. Not at his salary.

[payitforward]

I would definitely consider trading Poole/Jones before trading Kuzma.

Of course!

Unfortunately, nobody wants Poole right now. Not at his salary.

Not to mention that his contract is guaranteed through '26-27.

[tontoz]

I would definitely consider trading Poole/Jones before trading Kuzma.

Of course!

Unfortunately, nobody wants Poole right now. Not at his salary.

At least Jones is expiring so he will surely be gone next season if not sooner.

I guess we actually need Poole's salary just to make the league minimum.

[penbeast0]

I would definitely consider trading Poole/Jones before trading Kuzma.

Of course!

Unfortunately, nobody wants Poole right now. Not at his salary.

At least Jones is expiring so he will surely be gone next season if not sooner.

I guess we actually need Poole's salary just to make the league minimum.

Before the season, I would have said we should make one of our primary offseason goals to resign Tyus, but he's been disappointing on the defensive end and has too many games where he disappears on offense. Not seeing a major upgrade over Morris who was a better shooter and off ball player and supposedly was worse mainly because Tyus was more aggressive on both ends. He's been pretty passive pretty often I'd say. Season still young though.

[payitforward]

Yeah... I opined that Jones was only a slight upgrade over Morris.

That said, something is wrong here, as Tyus is simply not playing at anywhere near his usual level. Might be best to see what his numbers & game look like a couple of months from now.

[TGW]

Yeah... I opined that Jones was only a slight upgrade over Morris.

That said, something is wrong here, as Tyus is simply not playing at anywhere near his usual level. Might be best to see what his numbers & game look like a couple of months from now.

It's simple...he's on the Wizards. Other teams know thay Tyus in a good system, is a good player. On a terrible team like the Wizards, no one is going to look good.

[gambitx777]

I can see Chicago or Charlotte be interested in Poole if they are floating around 10 th

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[TGW]

I can see Chicago or Charlotte be interested in Poole if they are floating around 10 th

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No.

[NatP4]

There’s not a team in the league that is interested in trading for Poole unless we are attaching assets. He’s an awful player and a terrible influence in the locker room, but everyone already knew that before we acquired him.

[nate33]

There’s not a team in the league that is interested in trading for Poole unless we are attaching assets. He’s an awful player and a terrible influence in the locker room, but everyone already knew that before we acquired him.

I agree that he is totally untradeable right now.

I didn't expect him to be a bad influence in the locker room. I thought of him as an irrational confidence guy who really helped Golden State win a title in 2022. I also knew he was a really hard worker who has improved massively from where he was when he entered the league. I expected some growing pains in him learning the difference between being a bench scorer into being a more complete player, but I didn't expect his scoring efficiency to be so bad. And I definitely didn't expect to so quickly see signs of an attitude problem.

[AFM]

His stats are brutal right now but that's not even the half of it. He's coming down the court like he's at the YMCA dribble dribble dribble dribble as Barkley would say then launching a disgusting looking airball

[payitforward]

Yeah... I opined that Jones was only a slight upgrade over Morris.

That said, something is wrong here, as Tyus is simply not playing at anywhere near his usual level. Might be best to see what his numbers & game look like a couple of months from now.

It's simple...he's on the Wizards. Other teams know thay Tyus in a good system, is a good player. On a terrible team like the Wizards, no one is going to look good.

Nah.

Let's look at his numbers compared to last year -- shooting, assists, & everything else (boards, steals, turnovers, fouls) -- here's what I see:

1. Assists -- He's down1 assist per 40 minutes from last year.
I'd say that's adequately explained by the overall bad shooting of his teammates: after all, no assist unless someone makes a bucket off your pass, right?

2. "Everything else" (boards, steals, turnovers, fouls) -- with one exception, Tyus is almost exactly at his level from last year. The exception is fouls: he's committing @ 1 more foul per 40 minutes than he did in 2022-23. He's still committing only @ 2/3 the average number of fouls for a PG.

3. Shooting -- Here's where the biggest drop off is. Last year, Tyus posted a .544 TS%. It's at .507 this year. But... here's what's weird: his 3 pt % is actually up from last year!

The problem is that his 2 pt. % is down, & he is basically never getting to the line. He's taken exactly 4 FTAs in almost 270 minutes.

Weird.

[gambitx777]

I can see Chicago or Charlotte be interested in Poole if they are floating around 10 th

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No.

Well if that's all you got for debate. I'd say yes so I win. Lol.

It's easy to say that's a stupid idea because Poole's TraSh.

But Jordan has shows somethings in the league and is on e a half way reasonable deal and is only 24.

Lonzo ball and a dissapointing Patrick Williams and that protected Portland first. That's reasonable.

Gordon Hayward and like 3 seconds is reasonable.

Those teams have some insensitive to try and win and they aren't well run teams so that's not that out there.

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[TGW]

I can see Chicago or Charlotte be interested in Poole if they are floating around 10 th

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No.

Well if that's all you got for debate. I'd say yes so I win. Lol.

It's easy to say that's a stupid idea because Poole's TraSh.

But Jordan has shows somethings in the league and is on e a half way reasonable deal and is only 24.

Lonzo ball and a dissapointing Patrick Williams and that protected Portland first. That's reasonable.

Gordon Hayward and like 3 seconds is reasonable.

Those teams have some insensitive to try and win and they aren't well run teams so that's not that out there.

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You live in a fantasy world gambit. But I still got love for ya.

[pcbothwel]

Ehhh. Wall was untradeable, then Russ, then Bertans...
I still hate the trade as an expiring CP3 could/should of netted us an expiring + small asset. Lowry/Lonzo + pick would of really given us a ton of flexibility...Oh well, here's hoping Rollins can breakout.

With that said, I dont think Poole is moved this year. We need to put him in the Harden/Beal On-Ball guard role and let him do his thing. We wont win, but I think playing him next to a high IQ, defensive guard will be best for improving his value moving forward.

Tyus/Wright + Gallo are the guys that NEED to be moved to by the deadline.

[nate33]

Ehhh. Wall was untradeable, then Russ, then Bertans...
I still hate the trade as an expiring CP3 could/should of netted us an expiring + small asset. Lowry/Lonzo + pick would of really given us a ton of flexibility...Oh well, here's hoping Rollins can breakout.

Instead, we acquired a big contract, but also a first round pick, four Phoenix pick swaps and six 2RP's. I don't think that was such a bad deal. After all, in an era where they FORCE you to spend cap room, you have to spend it on someone. At least Poole is young and had at least one good year as a scorer.

What else could you do with this "flexibility"? Remember, you can't carry it into the season for use in a midseason trade. You've got to buy something with that cap room in the offseason. The problem is, there aren't a lot of really bad contracts out there that teams will pay to unload. You could buy a contract like Rashaun Holmes, but Dallas isn't giving away a 1st to make it happen. They would probably give away a couple of 2RP's. But that's the same thing we got by acquiring Poole.

I suppose we could go shopping the offseason for a free agent that is part of our long term plan, but now you're talking about young RFA's from the 2019 draft class, and nearly all of the good ones have already been extended.

[pcbothwel]

Ehhh. Wall was untradeable, then Russ, then Bertans...
I still hate the trade as an expiring CP3 could/should of netted us an expiring + small asset. Lowry/Lonzo + pick would of really given us a ton of flexibility...Oh well, here's hoping Rollins can breakout.

Instead, we acquired a big contract, but also a first round pick, four Phoenix pick swaps and six 2RP's. I don't think that was such a bad deal. After all, in an era where they FORCE you to spend cap room, you have to spend it on someone. At least Poole is young and had at least one good year as a scorer.

What else could you do with this "flexibility"? Remember, you can't carry it into the season for use in a midseason trade. You've got to buy something with that cap room in the offseason. The problem is, there aren't a lot of really bad contracts out there that teams will pay to unload. You could buy a contract like Rashaun Holmes, but Dallas isn't giving away a 1st to make it happen. They would probably give away a couple of 2RP's. But that's the same thing we got by acquiring Poole.

I suppose we could go shopping the offseason for a free agent that is part of our long term plan, but now you're talking about young RFA's from the 2019 draft class, and nearly all of the good ones have already been extended.

1) Lets be clear...we traded Beal for CP3 and the PHX picks... we then moved CP3 to GSW for Poole, Rollins, and PBJ. We could of sent CP3 to Miami for Lowry and a small asset and been better off. We would then have max cap space in a summer where lux tax penalties will be at a high, but before the cap spike. Perfect storm to take on a Ben Simmons/Poole/Ball contract outright for good pick. Cap Space could also allow us to front load a Kispert extension, which would make him a bargain (like Deni) when we actually try to compete again.

2) Your example of Holmes is actually a perfect one...because the Kings literally did just that. They traded a late 1st to the Mavs just to dump Holmes.

[nate33]

Ehhh. Wall was untradeable, then Russ, then Bertans...
I still hate the trade as an expiring CP3 could/should of netted us an expiring + small asset. Lowry/Lonzo + pick would of really given us a ton of flexibility...Oh well, here's hoping Rollins can breakout.

Instead, we acquired a big contract, but also a first round pick, four Phoenix pick swaps and six 2RP's. I don't think that was such a bad deal. After all, in an era where they FORCE you to spend cap room, you have to spend it on someone. At least Poole is young and had at least one good year as a scorer.

What else could you do with this "flexibility"? Remember, you can't carry it into the season for use in a midseason trade. You've got to buy something with that cap room in the offseason. The problem is, there aren't a lot of really bad contracts out there that teams will pay to unload. You could buy a contract like Rashaun Holmes, but Dallas isn't giving away a 1st to make it happen. They would probably give away a couple of 2RP's. But that's the same thing we got by acquiring Poole.

I suppose we could go shopping the offseason for a free agent that is part of our long term plan, but now you're talking about young RFA's from the 2019 draft class, and nearly all of the good ones have already been extended.

1) Lets be clear...we traded Beal for CP3 and the PHX picks... we then moved CP3 to GSW for Poole, Rollins, and PBJ. We could of sent CP3 to Miami for Lowry and a small asset and been better off. We would then have max cap space in a summer where lux tax penalties will be at a high, but before the cap spike. Perfect storm to take on a Ben Simmons/Poole/Ball contract outright for good pick. Cap Space could also allow us to front load a Kispert extension, which would make him a bargain (like Deni) when we actually try to compete again.

2) Your example of Holmes is actually a perfect one...because the Kings literally did just that. They traded a late 1st to the Mavs just to dump Holmes.

My bad. I was thinking we got some picks for the Paul trade. I guess we got the protected 2030 pick, but that's it.