is Klay done?

[Impuniti]

I talk about shooting cause he is Klay Thompson
League average in TS includes role players who just take easy shots. Say Kevon Looney at .675 matching Steph Curry... Or Draymond at .618.
Look at champs, Jokic at .668 and Murray at .541 - that's exactly Klay true shooting percentage. Whole league knows Klay or Jamal Murray could go for 30+ if they get a room.
There are many other samples.

You're talking about one aspect when he sucks at every other aspect of the game. He can't defend anymore, he's horrible at it. He doesn't playmake, set screens, rebound, box out, or any other small things that others do. His specialty was being elite off ball, getting C&S opportunities to make and good POA defender. He's a horrible defender now, and he's not as good off ball or in C&S opportunities. On top of that, he's got it in his head that he should dribble and shoot despite being awful at it.

[CDM_Stats]

He's not done, but nothing is built to help him right now, and he's sure not toughing through ****

He's quitting on plays still. He logged a whole 2 minutes before getting ejected, screaming how he didnt do anything (I dont even know what to say to that), but he managed to quit on a play in those 2 minutes. The first 2 minutes of the game, quits on a play defensively. Was sitting about 10 rows up and saw it so blatantly

But I'd give equal blame to Kerr, for putting Klay in a position where he'd almost certainly fail. He's guarding much bigger people and doesnt rebound well, doesnt rotate well, and doesnt challenge well. And we're somehow shocked that our defense is tumbling, and blame is being thrown around to guys like Wiggins, Dray, and Looney when we've already seen many times before what happens when one *idiot* can ruin the whole scheme. Especially when that player is responsible for switching down low and challenging at the rim.

It's Klay and Kerr. The situation has to be dealt with: either play Klay like a wing and eat his bad defense like we do with Curry, and put him in position to justify that negative by running plays off of Klay offensively.. or bench him, and force him and CP3 to run the bench squad while promoting Moody or Podz. If its Moody, you make damn sure he understands that he's to try and attack each time he gets the ball. If its Podz, you need to get him comfortable with C&S shots in our system, like with pindowns. Bottom line - something will need to change

[GQ Hot Dog]

He's not done, but nothing is built to help him right now, and he's sure not toughing through ****

He's quitting on plays still. He logged a whole 2 minutes before getting ejected, screaming how he didnt do anything (I dont even know what to say to that), but he managed to quit on a play in those 2 minutes. The first 2 minutes of the game, quits on a play defensively. Was sitting about 10 rows up and saw it so blatantly

But I'd give equal blame to Kerr, for putting Klay in a position where he'd almost certainly fail. He's guarding much bigger people and doesnt rebound well, doesnt rotate well, and doesnt challenge well. And we're somehow shocked that our defense is tumbling, and blame is being thrown around to guys like Wiggins, Dray, and Looney when we've already seen many times before what happens when one *idiot* can ruin the whole scheme. Especially when that player is responsible for switching down low and challenging at the rim.

It's Klay and Kerr. The situation has to be dealt with: either play Klay like a wing and eat his bad defense like we do with Curry, and put him in position to justify that negative by running plays off of Klay offensively.. or bench him, and force him and CP3 to run the bench squad while promoting Moody or Podz. If its Moody, you make damn sure he understands that he's to try and attack each time he gets the ball. If its Podz, you need to get him comfortable with C&S shots in our system, like with pindowns. Bottom line - something will need to change

If Klay can't guard bigger players than who can he guard? Because we already know he can't guard smaller players. Klay can't guard wings because he can't pursue cutters or fight his way around screens. And since he's such a ball watcher on defense, he can't be trusted not to lost track of his man for layups and open 3s.

Which means your criticism of Kerr is that he plays Klay at all. And that is what is really at the crux of this team's problems. Our long-time #2 scorer and plus on-ball defender now can't get open, can't make contested shots and can't defend anyone.

The frustration is warranted but Klay's decline has been so precipitous and with nobody even close to being able to replace his scoring that I don't think Kerr has any way to compensate.

Let's be honest, Kerr's best coaching job was winning a chip with one superstar in his prime, two no defense scorers and a bunch of solid to great defensive roleplayers.

[Impuniti]

He can't guard anybody, that's the point. Kerr is shifting the way the team plays to make it work around the 7-8th best player on the team.

[CDM_Stats]

Which means your criticism of Kerr is that he plays Klay at all. And that is what is really at the crux of this team's problems. Our long-time #2 scorer and plus on-ball defender now can't get open, can't make contested shots and can't defend anyone.

The frustration is warranted but Klay's decline has been so precipitous and with nobody even close to being able to replace his scoring that I don't think Kerr has any way to compensate.

Let's be honest, Kerr's best coaching job was winning a chip with one superstar in his prime, two no defense scorers and a bunch of solid to great defensive roleplayers.

My criticism is not that Kerr plays Klay at all.. he's still currently a credible enough threat from 3 that he brings defenders on his hip, especially evident when he sets off-ball screens. The issue is that while he's in a decline, its being magnified and accelerated by a strategy that should have never left the brainstorming session

Worst thing you can do to a shooter is break their routine, so putting Klay in a role where he has to focus on the little things a lot more, something he's always been terrible at, is not going to do him any favors. And predictably, not only has Klay failed at doing those little things, its affected the one thing he could bring to the table. That's my criticism.. a bad idea that's failing, but one that Kerr has not deviated from yet

[Onus]

Klay needs to come off the bench. But someone moody or podz has to put him there. Podz seems more likely as of now just due to his dog mentality.

[GQ Hot Dog]

Klay needs to come off the bench. But someone moody or podz has to put him there. Podz seems more likely as of now just due to his dog mentality.

If Moody was a better defender I'm sure Kerr would live with his offensive limitations but Moody still gets beat off the dribble all the time. I have faith that Moody will continue to figure out positioning, anticipation, timing and all the other things one can do to improve as an on-ball defender but he's not there yet.

Podz is a quick little bugger and a more instinctual player than Moody so I think you're right that he's going to be getting more and more of Klay's minutes.

I just don't think Kerr is ready to bench Klay right away(and I'm not sure he should) so we're going to be seeing more of Klay(as long as he doesn't get himself ejected) for a while.

[CDM_Stats]

Klay needs to come off the bench. But someone moody or podz has to put him there. Podz seems more likely as of now just due to his dog mentality.

If Moody was a better defender I'm sure Kerr would live with his offensive limitations but Moody still gets beat off the dribble all the time. I have faith that Moody will continue to figure out positioning, anticipation, timing and all the other things one can do to improve as an on-ball defender but he's not there yet.

Podz is a quick little bugger and a more instinctual player than Moody so I think you're right that he's going to be getting more and more of Klay's minutes.

I just don't think Kerr is ready to bench Klay right away(and I'm not sure he should) so we're going to be seeing more of Klay(as long as he doesn't get himself ejected) for a while.

Podz grades out as a worse on-ball defender than Moody, who is hovering around league average for wings right now, and Moody is far better off-ball, where he's been elite for a wing, borderline elite for a forward

Really odd takes lately man

[GQ Hot Dog]

Klay needs to come off the bench. But someone moody or podz has to put him there. Podz seems more likely as of now just due to his dog mentality.

If Moody was a better defender I'm sure Kerr would live with his offensive limitations but Moody still gets beat off the dribble all the time. I have faith that Moody will continue to figure out positioning, anticipation, timing and all the other things one can do to improve as an on-ball defender but he's not there yet.

Podz is a quick little bugger and a more instinctual player than Moody so I think you're right that he's going to be getting more and more of Klay's minutes.

I just don't think Kerr is ready to bench Klay right away(and I'm not sure he should) so we're going to be seeing more of Klay(as long as he doesn't get himself ejected) for a while.

Podz grades out as a worse on-ball defender than Moody, who is hovering around league average for wings right now, and Moody is far better off-ball, where he's been elite for a wing, borderline elite for a forward

Really odd takes lately man

I don't mind that we disagree. I think you're a real cool dude.

I think Kerr wants more offense next to Curry, which is why he's still trying to play Klay(to the extent Klay can still provide "more offense"). But if Moody had really figured out on-ball defense then he would give him more of Klay's minutes and live with the reduced offense.

As it is, he'd rather get the offense out of Podz and live with the reduced defense(small sample-size, we'll see if that's actually true).

[CDM_Stats]

If Moody was a better defender I'm sure Kerr would live with his offensive limitations but Moody still gets beat off the dribble all the time. I have faith that Moody will continue to figure out positioning, anticipation, timing and all the other things one can do to improve as an on-ball defender but he's not there yet.

Podz is a quick little bugger and a more instinctual player than Moody so I think you're right that he's going to be getting more and more of Klay's minutes.

I just don't think Kerr is ready to bench Klay right away(and I'm not sure he should) so we're going to be seeing more of Klay(as long as he doesn't get himself ejected) for a while.

Podz grades out as a worse on-ball defender than Moody, who is hovering around league average for wings right now, and Moody is far better off-ball, where he's been elite for a wing, borderline elite for a forward

Really odd takes lately man

I don't mind that we disagree. I think you're a real cool dude.

I think Kerr wants more offense next to Curry, which is why he's still trying to play Klay(to the extent Klay can still provide "more offense"). But if Moody had really figured out on-ball defense then he would give him more of Klay's minutes and live with the reduced offense.

As it is, he'd rather get the offense out of Podz and live with the reduced defense(small sample-size, we'll see if that's actually true).

We're good man, the reason I keep asking is I think you're usually on it, I dont see it this time.. it really looks like an axe to grind from my perspective

Moody's on-ball defense isn't good, to be clear. Neither is Podz, and definitely not Klay. But.. in all his minutes in the last MIN game, I saw one play that Moody didn't do well, and it was a scramble situation. Where SloMo lost the ball at the hashmarks with about 5s on the SC, Moody charged him 28' from the rim, SloMo slowly drove around him and flipped in a shot. Other than that, in 14 min Moody created 4 TOs for the Wolves, 2 of them w/on-ball defense. He's one of 2 players on the team who's grading out positively on offense and defense (Dray being the other).. and best of all, it looks sustainable. It's not the spikes and valleys of the Kumingas and the Klays, its the slow incline that makes it more credible

Now if Kerr wants handling/playmaking, I get it. Use Podz, because while Moody's playmaking is underrated, he's a tertiary, part-time playmaker type who MIGHT be able to be the secondary one. And while he's a 2nd/3rd there, Podz is more of a 1st/2nd handler. But anywhere else? Shooting I'd call it a push - Podz form makes it hard for him to pullup whereas Moody's freakish length is harder to impede, but open looks I'd give to Podz. Defense, both on and off-ball, look to be handily Moody, though Podz' effort level is definitely infectious.

Honestly, I'd like to see Moody take minutes not only from Klay, but GP2 as well. GP2 is becoming more peaks/valleys than he has in the past.. he was almost entirely responsible for KAT's mini-run in the 2ndQ as GP2 overhelped a lot. But Moody in that game? Man.. he was really good, even on re-watch. If Kerr can't find a way to give that player 20-25 minutes per game, especially when Klay's ruled out, what are we even doing here??

[wco81]

Windhorst of all people pointed out that his 3PAs are down, suggesting that he can't get open any more. Of course the team plays a part of it, setting picks, hitting him with passes at the right time.

Or maybe he's not forcing as many contested shots.

[EvanZ]

I have no problem with Podz getting minutes right now. But taking minutes away from Moody to give them to Corey Joseph is Brad Wanamaker level insanity to me. There's literally ZERO reason to ever have a lineup with Podz and Corey Joseph playing together. And certainly that would never be a playoff lineup. It would be insanity and everyone in here would instantly flambee Kerr for it.

Kerr forced Moody to be a 3&D guy from the jump when those of us who actually scouted and watched Moody in college knew he could do more than that. He is 100% better ball handler and scorer than Kuminga if given the chance. The problem is Kerr just doesn't get it.

[GSWFan1994]

He's not done, but nothing is built to help him right now, and he's sure not toughing through ****

He's quitting on plays still. He logged a whole 2 minutes before getting ejected, screaming how he didnt do anything (I dont even know what to say to that), but he managed to quit on a play in those 2 minutes. The first 2 minutes of the game, quits on a play defensively. Was sitting about 10 rows up and saw it so blatantly

But I'd give equal blame to Kerr, for putting Klay in a position where he'd almost certainly fail. He's guarding much bigger people and doesnt rebound well, doesnt rotate well, and doesnt challenge well. And we're somehow shocked that our defense is tumbling, and blame is being thrown around to guys like Wiggins, Dray, and Looney when we've already seen many times before what happens when one *idiot* can ruin the whole scheme. Especially when that player is responsible for switching down low and challenging at the rim.

It's Klay and Kerr. The situation has to be dealt with: either play Klay like a wing and eat his bad defense like we do with Curry, and put him in position to justify that negative by running plays off of Klay offensively.. or bench him, and force him and CP3 to run the bench squad while promoting Moody or Podz. If its Moody, you make damn sure he understands that he's to try and attack each time he gets the ball. If its Podz, you need to get him comfortable with C&S shots in our system, like with pindowns. Bottom line - something will need to change

Something I'd like to ask you: Klay came back in 2022, after 2 years out due to injuries. He played somewhat well and we won the title. He was not so far removed from the injuries. How did he get so bad 2 years later, when in theory the injuries should have been on the rearview mirror?

[CDM_Stats]

Something I'd like to ask you: Klay came back in 2022, after 2 years out due to injuries. He played somewhat well and we won the title. He was not so far removed from the injuries. How did he get so bad 2 years later, when in theory the injuries should have been on the rearview mirror?

Its just age.. but consider a career an hourglass. That bottleneck in the middle.. when you have an Achilles injury, that gets wider. Meaning the decline is faster and earlier. We're seeing that now

Also, and maybe more importantly, Klay was always a limited player. Early in his career he provided ONLY a jumper. He eventually became a better finisher, and then ultimately a high quality on-ball defender. With his athleticism sapped and dropping - extremely important because he was a great cardio guy running around off-ball - he now can't finish at the rim as well, and has become a total liability defensively.

2 years ago he was still a long ways from being a quality on-ball defender, but while he was injured, he was also resting. Now he's been playing ball for 2 years straight, he's 32-33 this year, and all those factors are just hitting at once. The shot should come around in time, but everything else is going to be a negative that the team has to eat

[floppymoose]

Part of it is the team around him. The 2022 playoff squad all had Looney/Dray/Wiggins/Steph rebounding around Klay. All 4 of them were some of the best rebounders at their position during that season's playoffs.

Now Wiggins is not really rebounding (despite Fitz's claims to the contrary), Dray has missed games, and Klay has spent serious time on a stupid CP/Steph/Klay lineup. So Klay has been exposed a lot more by the situation.

Rebounding is just one example.

I never thought Klay was playing well after the injuries. He had streaks where he was adequate. One of them came at the right time for another championship.

[DonaldSanders]

Something I'd like to ask you: Klay came back in 2022, after 2 years out due to injuries. He played somewhat well and we won the title. He was not so far removed from the injuries. How did he get so bad 2 years later, when in theory the injuries should have been on the rearview mirror?

I don't think that Klay from 2022 is that far off from this Klay. He's definitely worse now, some of that might be age, but the players around him aren't playing as well to cover up his flaws. He's also miscast defending bigger players, vs. certain match ups it works but vs. a lot it doesn't. It's possible just a small amount of aging has been a tipping point for defense that hasn't been good since he returned.

His ORTG and DRTG were 10th on the team in the playoffs. He posted a -11.7 on/off in that playoff run, all the other starters (and GPII) are positive. His on-court is +2.3 but he probably dragged down the rest of the guys who were all +7.1 or higher. The lowest starter on/off was Looney at +4.7. Now these aren't perfect metrics or anything but when a player is a big outlier of the starting group to me that shows he was not particularly strong. And his finals performance was pretty bad, 48.4% TS.

So I see mostly the same guy, he's just had some hot streaks that have been memorable but certainly haven't lasted... and a lot of times these were piled up vs. bad or mediocre teams, and when he faces top teams he struggles. That's part of why in the playoffs he looks so bad, and part of why he has struggled more this season with our tough opening schedule.

[Onus]

I have no problem with Podz getting minutes right now. But taking minutes away from Moody to give them to Corey Joseph is Brad Wanamaker level insanity to me. There's literally ZERO reason to ever have a lineup with Podz and Corey Joseph playing together. And certainly that would never be a playoff lineup. It would be insanity and everyone in here would instantly flambee Kerr for it.

Kerr forced Moody to be a 3&D guy from the jump when those of us who actually scouted and watched Moody in college knew he could do more than that. He is 100% better ball handler and scorer than Kuminga if given the chance. The problem is Kerr just doesn't get it.

It really is odd that Moody couldn't get more playing time.

I guess Kerr doesn't trust podz that much as he wanted a 2nd handler out there even though Cojo doesn't go anywhere.

[EvanZ]

If he would allow Moody to be the second ball handler it would work. I swear to god it's not that hard to figure it out. Anything is better than depending on Corey Joseph at this stage of his career.

[wco81]

It couldn't be that Kerr gets to watch Moody in practice and has access to video packages showing Moody in certain situations and against certain players or player types not providing what they need.

Or the number of times he is open but doesn't take a shot?

No just guys on the Internet watching broadcasts of games, on not necessarily the best camera angles, who've scouted Moody better than the coaching staff.

[GSWFan1994]

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