NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24

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Who will be the 2023-24 NBA MVP?

Nikola Jokic
101
41%
Luka Doncic
28
11%
Joel Embiid
22
9%
Jayson Tatum
15
6%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
32
13%
Stephen Curry
1
0%
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
15
6%
Anthony Edwards
11
4%
Kevin Durant
5
2%
Other (Haliburton, Mitchell, Davis, Booker, Fox etc.)
16
7%
 
Total votes: 246

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1021 » by eyeatoma » Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:56 am

Demagoog wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Ambrose wrote:People really still believe Jokic is a negative defensively?



Go to the DPOY board. Do you ever see Jokic even mentioned?

Who is on the poll right now?

I'd say at best Jokic is even on defense. He has good positioning, great rebounding, and is handsy. But you don't plan a defensive scheme with Jokic's strengths, he's not a hub on defense. Jokic does excel with Bball IQ, so he does bring a lot of intagibles there on the defensive end. Knowing plays, and positiong is very important, and that can't be calculated statistically.

Jokic isn't mentioned as Defensive Player of the Year = bad defender.

You have no shame, absolutely pathetic.


Again, there are other posters comparing him to Embiid's effectiveness on defense, on this very thread. So when you have people like that comparing them to Embiid, who is a perennial DPOY candidate, then yes, I will make that comparison.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1022 » by Lakers In 5 » Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:01 am

You guys ever hear Jimmy Butler brought up in MVP conversations?

No. Therefore he is awful.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1023 » by AleksandarN » Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:05 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Demagoog wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:

Go to the DPOY board. Do you ever see Jokic even mentioned?

Who is on the poll right now?

I'd say at best Jokic is even on defense. He has good positioning, great rebounding, and is handsy. But you don't plan a defensive scheme with Jokic's strengths, he's not a hub on defense. Jokic does excel with Bball IQ, so he does bring a lot of intagibles there on the defensive end. Knowing plays, and positiong is very important, and that can't be calculated statistically.

Jokic isn't mentioned as Defensive Player of the Year = bad defender.

You have no shame, absolutely pathetic.


Again, there are other posters comparing him to Embiid's effectiveness on defense, on this very thread. So when you have people like that comparing them to Embiid, who is a perennial DPOY candidate, then yes, I will make that comparison.

I am curious how many Top 3 finishes does Embiid have? (Side not Jokic will never have a top 3 finish in DPOY votes thats obviously not my point).
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1024 » by AleksandarN » Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:06 am

Demagoog wrote:You guys ever hear Jimmy Butler brought up in MVP conversations?

No. Therefore he is awful.

I honestly think Bam has been their best player and MVP this year
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1025 » by eyeatoma » Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:09 am

AleksandarN wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Demagoog wrote:Jokic isn't mentioned as Defensive Player of the Year = bad defender.

You have no shame, absolutely pathetic.


Again, there are other posters comparing him to Embiid's effectiveness on defense, on this very thread. So when you have people like that comparing them to Embiid, who is a perennial DPOY candidate, then yes, I will make that comparison.

I am curious how many Top 3 finishes does Embiid have? (Side not Jokic will never have a top 3 finish in DPOY votes thats obviously not my point).



Embiid was going to win the DPOY in one of the 3 years that Gobert won his and then they said that Embiid didn't have enough games, which was BS (the difference was negligible).
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1026 » by AleksandarN » Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:19 am

eyeatoma wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Again, there are other posters comparing him to Embiid's effectiveness on defense, on this very thread. So when you have people like that comparing them to Embiid, who is a perennial DPOY candidate, then yes, I will make that comparison.

I am curious how many Top 3 finishes does Embiid have? (Side not Jokic will never have a top 3 finish in DPOY votes thats obviously not my point).



Embiid was going to win the DPOY in one of the 3 years that Gobert won his and then they said that Embiid didn't have enough games, which was BS (the difference was negligible).

What does that have to do with being a “perennial DPOY candidate”.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1027 » by Sedale Threatt » Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:19 am

eyeatoma wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Again, there are other posters comparing him to Embiid's effectiveness on defense, on this very thread. So when you have people like that comparing them to Embiid, who is a perennial DPOY candidate, then yes, I will make that comparison.

I am curious how many Top 3 finishes does Embiid have? (Side not Jokic will never have a top 3 finish in DPOY votes thats obviously not my point).



Embiid was going to win the DPOY in one of the 3 years that Gobert won his and then they said that Embiid didn't have enough games, which was BS (the difference was negligible).


Watching you whip yourself into a frenzy over this every year only to inevitably crash in the playoffs reminds me of my niece cycling through a sugar high when she was 5. Go touch some grass man.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1028 » by eyeatoma » Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:28 am

AleksandarN wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:I am curious how many Top 3 finishes does Embiid have? (Side not Jokic will never have a top 3 finish in DPOY votes thats obviously not my point).



Embiid was going to win the DPOY in one of the 3 years that Gobert won his and then they said that Embiid didn't have enough games, which was BS (the difference was negligible).

What does that have to do with being a “perennial DPOY candidate”.
If you get a vote you're in the running.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1029 » by AleksandarN » Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:22 am

eyeatoma wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:

Embiid was going to win the DPOY in one of the 3 years that Gobert won his and then they said that Embiid didn't have enough games, which was BS (the difference was negligible).

What does that have to do with being a “perennial DPOY candidate”.
If you get a vote you're in the running.

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Ok then explain why Embiid only has 3 all defensive team honors(no first team)? That doesn’t translate to being perennial dpoy candidate now does it? If he was a perennial dpoy candidate he would have more defensive team honors
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1030 » by AleksandarN » Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:24 am

See Eyeatoma you always call out other posters who exaggerate/overstate players abilities and achievements yet you do the same.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1031 » by DCasey91 » Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:25 am

bigboi wrote:
DCasey91 wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Ehh. Nuggets are pretty stacked so I don’t see how. Barring a slowdown, Jokic runs away with this. I don’t think anyone can deny him rn. Dude is playing at a historic pace like it’s rookie mode on 2k. It doesn’t make sense how a dude so unathletic is so good but it just is. And it’s not even like Luka where he’s a sneaky athlete, Jokic legit is one of the worst athletes in the league.


He has possibly the best hands ever, quick feet and moves very well for a 7foot 270 guy, hand eye etc.

Far from the worst athlete. I actually think Towns/Davis are worse fundamentally. They can’t hold any extra weight and can be very sloppy with how they move. He was running circles on Val because his foot movement is so crisp. A ton of Forefoot/Midfoot in close


Lmao. I’m not taking what you say seriously if you think Towns and Davis are worse athletes than Jokic. Especially AD. That’s extremely silly.


Athleticism is a broad description. Balance is greatly overlooked. So is footwork, so is hand eye, dexterity, strength actually a lot of things

Both masquerade at larger than what they can hold

What’s silly is not recognising it in Jokic. I consider those two and you include Gobert as functionally worse athletes than Jokic and it’s not even close.

Right now it would not surprise me if he was at the highest percentile in dexterity, hand eye, balance, stamina and strength indicators at his weight class they are all supremely elite with him.

Something you may or may not notice is with Val he’s very much a flat foot exponent, whereas Jokic has a ton of front/middle foot mobility. Dude has twinkle toes

Now for running in general it doesn’t mean a whole lot… but to close in sports it’s one heck of difference.

And to top it off he easily has the best trunk control for his size, easily. That’s a heck of lot strong core mechanics at play here
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1032 » by eyeatoma » Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:32 am

AleksandarN wrote:See Eyeatoma you always call out other posters who exaggerate/overstate players abilities and achievements yet you do the same.


The same reason why he has only 1st team All-NBA, even though he's a 2 time runner up, and a 1 time MVP.

Positional restrictions...

Only 1 C per position...

Bam and Gobert usually get that spot, partially because they are more consistent defensively in the regular season, although Embiid is just as good in the playoffs. But that doesnt' mean that he's not as good, or can't be. There are a lot of good defensive players. Difference is Embiid can switch on best defender on the planet level defense when he wants. He does it infrequently in the regular season. His highs, are elite over there. Joker will never get to that status, at best he's a treading water, and is an average defender. There is no switch.

This isn't that hard.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1033 » by eyeatoma » Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:35 am

Sedale Threatt wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:I am curious how many Top 3 finishes does Embiid have? (Side not Jokic will never have a top 3 finish in DPOY votes thats obviously not my point).



Embiid was going to win the DPOY in one of the 3 years that Gobert won his and then they said that Embiid didn't have enough games, which was BS (the difference was negligible).


Watching you whip yourself into a frenzy over this every year only to inevitably crash in the playoffs reminds me of my niece cycling through a sugar high when she was 5. Go touch some grass man.



Most of us are adults here posting on a niche basketball forum. Literally everyone needs to touch some grass here. If you're posting on here, you're obsessed with basketball. You can say the same thing about everyone. The difference is, I realize this is the MVP thread, not the Jokic slobber fest thread.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1034 » by FrodoBaggins » Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:31 am

The Jokic. There is circlejerk at moment. He is good but not above reproach. His defensive shortcomings will always be issue. Check opponent PITP per 100 possession over last five season. Is not good.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1035 » by losmi » Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:06 am

Somehow his defensive shortcomings weren't an issue in the playoffs. Unlike some other top candidates who are exposed on the other side of the floor every single year.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1036 » by Wolfgang630 » Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:50 am

Again with the defensive stuff lol. As far as regular season I can see it more. Playoffs he’s shown he’s more locked in.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1037 » by Wolfgang630 » Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:53 am

All the contending teams- Bucks, Celtics, Sixers, a slew of west teams have their top 2 guys playing except for Denver. Only so much I can hold against him with Murray out.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1038 » by ty 4191 » Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:36 am

FrodoBaggins wrote:The Jokic. There is circlejerk at moment. He is good but not above reproach. His defensive shortcomings will always be issue. Check opponent PITP per 100 possession over last five season. Is not good.


Post the PITP per 100 possessions for Embiid and Jokic the past 5 seasons. Or, provide links. Thank you.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1039 » by kacey ring » Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:10 pm

Luka and the Mavs need to start beating good teams for him to have an mvp case.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 

Post#1040 » by eyeatoma » Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:13 pm

EPM from Dunks and Threes

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

It's basically neck and neck between Jokic and Embiid.

Jokic with an EPM of +7.5, Embiid +7.4. They're the top 2, the next is SGA at 6.6 and Luka all the way down at 4.5.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Jokic/Embiid for MVP, like time immemorial.

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