Original Title Was Wack - Knicks Comparison Thread Starting PG 5

[bronxknicksfan1]

I think you’re remembering his time a bit too fondly

Randle might take off plays but with Melo it was he opposite where there were clips of him playing good team defense because it was notable when he actually tried.

Melo was not known for being good at deferring and all those PG’s had to actively look him off because if they passed him the ball and the defense then loaded up on him, Melo wasn’t passing it back. The AI years was the epitome of I shoot or I pass to AI and he shoots, which was why the nuggets moved AI for Billups, and in hindsight putting AI on a team with Melo was a mistake because he learned that hero ball was all that was needed to win.

Am I remembering it too fondly or are you giving Randle too much credit?

Both are sieves defensively. Both show/ed a lack of effort on that end.

How many times have we seen Randle hold the ball for an entire possession and throw an out of control pass in the air towards the end of the shot clock? How many times have we’ve seen meltdown towards the end of the games? In the playoffs? Melo’s offensive impact was more on the star-superstar level. Randle is closer to average-above average. Again, you replace Randle with Melo on this current squad, they’d be in contender status. Melo had his faults, but in his prime, he’s led teams with much less talent than this current Knicks team to the playoffs. Don’t think Randle could’ve done the same.

Randle did the same the first year he was here. RJ and Quick were not nearly as good as they are now, and just showed parts of their game, and Mitch was foul prone. On the low the second best player on that 2020’s team was probably Alec Burks. That 2020 team mostly won games because of Randle. Also there is a key point you’re over looking Melo wasn’t trying to pass the ball even as the clock wound down. Even in his bad possession Randle at least considers passing. Melo is taking that shot with 5 guys guarding him.

RJ averaged 17 a game that year. Rose was a 6MOTY candidate. IQ and Burks contributed to a strong bench. Mitch and Noel was a dominant defensive tandem. They were 3rd in DRTG that year. Randle’s offense was a big part of the success that year, but they were carried mostly by their defense keeping them in games. Only roster even comparable to this one with Melo was the 2012-13 team.

And somehow, even with Melo taking shots like that, his offensive impact was higher than Randle’s. This is also backed by advanced stats as well. Not to mention, the offensive talent around Randle the past couple years laps anything that was put around Melo. Take a look at those rosters again.

[robillionaire]

Am I remembering it too fondly or are you giving Randle too much credit?

Both are sieves defensively. Both show/ed a lack of effort on that end.

How many times have we seen Randle hold the ball for an entire possession and throw an out of control pass in the air towards the end of the shot clock? How many times have we’ve seen meltdown towards the end of the games? In the playoffs? Melo’s offensive impact was more on the star-superstar level. Randle is closer to average-above average. Again, you replace Randle with Melo on this current squad, they’d be in contender status. Melo had his faults, but in his prime, he’s led teams with much less talent than this current Knicks team to the playoffs. Don’t think Randle could’ve done the same.

Randle did the same the first year he was here. RJ and Quick were not nearly as good as they are now, and just showed parts of their game, and Mitch was foul prone. On the low the second best player on that 2020’s team was probably Alec Burks. That 2020 team mostly won games because of Randle. Also there is a key point you’re over looking Melo wasn’t trying to pass the ball even as the clock wound down. Even in his bad possession Randle at least considers passing. Melo is taking that shot with 5 guys guarding him.

RJ averaged 17 a game that year. Rose was a 6MOTY candidate. IQ and Burks contributed to a strong bench. Mitch and Noel was a dominant defensive tandem. They were 3rd in DRTG that year. Randle’s offense was a big part of the success that year, but they were carried mostly by their defense keeping them in games. Only roster even comparable to this one with Melo was the 2012-13 team.

And somehow, even with Melo taking shots like that, his offensive impact was higher than Randle’s. This is also backed by advanced stats as well. Not to mention, the offensive talent around Randle the past couple years laps anything that was put around Melo. Take a look at those rosters again.

Mitch was injured most of that season the center tandem was nerlens noel and the corpse of taj gibson and the point guard was elfrid payton and Derrick rose on his last legs. That roster was pretty bad

Also JR Smith actually did win the 6th man of the year not just a candidate and Tyson Chandler had championship experience in 2011 and won DPOY. he played with Amare who was in the league mvp conversation not long before that. What did the team look like when Randle got here?

Since Randle arrived the Knicks have already reached the pinnacle of success that melo accomplished (winning 1 playoff series and 7 playoff games) and it looks like we are on the way back for more this year

When melo finally got forced out we hadn’t made the playoffs in years and the roster was in shambles, if Randle ever leaves he’ll likely be leaving this place in a much better situation than the 17 win team it was when he signed here when KD and Kyrie turned us down and nobody else wanted to come. Now we look like a respectable team

Prime melo was obviously a superstar and a great talent much moreso than Randle especially from a scoring perspective, but what did he actually do for the Knicks, he played a selfish style of ball didn’t make anybody around him better and nobody wanted to play here. Randle has led the team in assists on multiple occasions and is once again doing so this season. Melo’s USG% was much higher he would get the ball to iso and shoot and that was the entire offense. Randle is actually trying to look for open teammates frequently. I’d rather watch the group we have now with Randle posting up any day over the last several years of Carmelo

[Ray Williams]

[bronxknicksfan1]

Randle did the same the first year he was here. RJ and Quick were not nearly as good as they are now, and just showed parts of their game, and Mitch was foul prone. On the low the second best player on that 2020’s team was probably Alec Burks. That 2020 team mostly won games because of Randle. Also there is a key point you’re over looking Melo wasn’t trying to pass the ball even as the clock wound down. Even in his bad possession Randle at least considers passing. Melo is taking that shot with 5 guys guarding him.

RJ averaged 17 a game that year. Rose was a 6MOTY candidate. IQ and Burks contributed to a strong bench. Mitch and Noel was a dominant defensive tandem. They were 3rd in DRTG that year. Randle’s offense was a big part of the success that year, but they were carried mostly by their defense keeping them in games. Only roster even comparable to this one with Melo was the 2012-13 team.

And somehow, even with Melo taking shots like that, his offensive impact was higher than Randle’s. This is also backed by advanced stats as well. Not to mention, the offensive talent around Randle the past couple years laps anything that was put around Melo. Take a look at those rosters again.

Mitch was injured most of that season the center tandem was nerlens noel and the corpse of taj gibson and the point guard was elfrid payton and Derrick rose on his last legs. That roster was pretty bad

Also JR Smith actually did win the 6th man of the year not just a candidate and Tyson Chandler had championship experience in 2011 and won DPOY. he played with Amare who was in the league mvp conversation not long before that. What did the team look like when Randle got here?

Since Randle arrived the Knicks have already reached the pinnacle of success that melo accomplished (winning 1 playoff series and 7 playoff games) and it looks like we are on the way back for more this year

When melo finally got forced out we hadn’t made the playoffs in years and the roster was in shambles, if Randle ever leaves he’ll likely be leaving this place in a much better situation than the 17 win team it was when he signed here when KD and Kyrie turned us down and nobody else wanted to come. Now we look like a respectable team

Prime melo was obviously a superstar and a great talent much moreso than Randle especially from a scoring perspective, but what did he actually do for the Knicks, he played a selfish style of ball didn’t make anybody around him better and nobody wanted to play here. Randle has led the team in assists on multiple occasions and is once again doing so this season. Melo’s USG% was much higher he would get the ball to iso and shoot and that was the entire offense. Randle is actually trying to look for open teammates frequently. I’d rather watch the group we have now with Randle posting up any day over the last several years of Carmelo

Last legs of Derrick Rose was the saving grace of that season. They were below .500 before that trade happened, so trying to downplay how good Rose was that season seems disingenuous. Especially when trying to prop up Amare, who was a shell of himself after the Melo trade. Not to mention, RJ was having a good sophomore season, Burks and IQ were great bench pieces as well, Noel filled in nicely when Mitch was out. Randle was great, but that team had more depth than any of those Knicks teams Melo was on.

That pinnacle of success that Randle got to with this Knicks team was in spite of him. He crashed and burned in the playoffs. Not once, but twice. We don’t get to that pinnacle in 12-13 if it wasn’t for Melo. That’s the big difference between what each of them has done. If Melo doesn’t play well, the team went nowhere. Randle has the benefit of having horrible games and being surrounded by talent that can pick him up during those **** games.

The situations each of them were in is based on FO decisions. The FO now is immensely better than what we had during the Melo years. It’s not even close. That had more to do with why no one wanted to come here. Good on Randle for being a part of the turnaround, but as we saw 2 seasons ago, we were on the verge of a downward spiral again until Brunson was signed.

Now, I’m not here to say Melo is without his faults. He was an iso-heavy player and was a lazy defender. But he’s also never had as much talent as this team when he was on the Knicks. The one time in his career where he had this much talent, he was in WCF and close to a chance at the Finals. Again, if prime Knicks Melo was here in place of Randle, we’d be talking about being a contender. Randle doesn’t raise the ceiling the same way.

[3toheadmelo]

RJ averaged 17 a game that year. Rose was a 6MOTY candidate. IQ and Burks contributed to a strong bench. Mitch and Noel was a dominant defensive tandem. They were 3rd in DRTG that year. Randle’s offense was a big part of the success that year, but they were carried mostly by their defense keeping them in games. Only roster even comparable to this one with Melo was the 2012-13 team.

And somehow, even with Melo taking shots like that, his offensive impact was higher than Randle’s. This is also backed by advanced stats as well. Not to mention, the offensive talent around Randle the past couple years laps anything that was put around Melo. Take a look at those rosters again.

Mitch was injured most of that season the center tandem was nerlens noel and the corpse of taj gibson and the point guard was elfrid payton and Derrick rose on his last legs. That roster was pretty bad

Also JR Smith actually did win the 6th man of the year not just a candidate and Tyson Chandler had championship experience in 2011 and won DPOY. he played with Amare who was in the league mvp conversation not long before that. What did the team look like when Randle got here?

Since Randle arrived the Knicks have already reached the pinnacle of success that melo accomplished (winning 1 playoff series and 7 playoff games) and it looks like we are on the way back for more this year

When melo finally got forced out we hadn’t made the playoffs in years and the roster was in shambles, if Randle ever leaves he’ll likely be leaving this place in a much better situation than the 17 win team it was when he signed here when KD and Kyrie turned us down and nobody else wanted to come. Now we look like a respectable team

Prime melo was obviously a superstar and a great talent much moreso than Randle especially from a scoring perspective, but what did he actually do for the Knicks, he played a selfish style of ball didn’t make anybody around him better and nobody wanted to play here. Randle has led the team in assists on multiple occasions and is once again doing so this season. Melo’s USG% was much higher he would get the ball to iso and shoot and that was the entire offense. Randle is actually trying to look for open teammates frequently. I’d rather watch the group we have now with Randle posting up any day over the last several years of Carmelo

Last legs of Derrick Rose was the saving grace of that season. They were below .500 before that trade happened, so trying to downplay how good Rose was that season seems disingenuous. Especially when trying to prop up Amare, who was a shell of himself after the Melo trade. Not to mention, RJ was having a good sophomore season, Burks and IQ were great bench pieces as well, Noel filled in nicely when Mitch was out. Randle was great, but that team had more depth than any of those Knicks teams Melo was on.

That pinnacle of success that Randle got to with this Knicks team was in spite of him. He crashed and burned in the playoffs. Not once, but twice. We don’t get to that pinnacle in 12-13 if it wasn’t for Melo. That’s the big difference between what each of them has done. If Melo doesn’t play well, the team went nowhere. Randle has the benefit of having horrible games and being surrounded by talent that can pick him up during those **** games.

The situations each of them were in is based on FO decisions. The FO now is immensely better than what we had during the Melo years. It’s not even close. That had more to do with why no one wanted to come here. Good on Randle for being a part of the turnaround, but as we saw 2 seasons ago, we were on the verge of a downward spiral again until Brunson was signed.

Now, I’m not here to say Melo is without his faults. He was an iso-heavy player and was a lazy defender. But he’s also never had as much talent as this team when he was on the Knicks. The one time in his career where he had this much talent, he was in WCF and close to a chance at the Finals. Again, if prime Knicks Melo was here in place of Randle, we’d be talking about being a contender. Randle doesn’t raise the ceiling the same way.

you know im a big randle fan but yeah melo raises this ceiling of the team drastically more. there is way more talent on this team than melo ever had on the knicks. prime melo on this squad would be something crazy. if melo had someone like brunson in 2013.. we wouldve def beat the pacers and the heat. melo's best team mate was jr smith who was coked up against indiana. it was sad.

anyways hopefully randle is healthy this time around in the playoffs though and can redeem himself. he looks a lot better lately

[Capn'O]

Melo with Brunson would have been a great pairing on paper. He always needed a lead. Would need a lot of defense behind it.

[Phish Tank]

Melo on the Detroit Pistsons with a 27 year old Chauncey Billups would've been the best pairing.

[robillionaire]

RJ averaged 17 a game that year. Rose was a 6MOTY candidate. IQ and Burks contributed to a strong bench. Mitch and Noel was a dominant defensive tandem. They were 3rd in DRTG that year. Randle’s offense was a big part of the success that year, but they were carried mostly by their defense keeping them in games. Only roster even comparable to this one with Melo was the 2012-13 team.

And somehow, even with Melo taking shots like that, his offensive impact was higher than Randle’s. This is also backed by advanced stats as well. Not to mention, the offensive talent around Randle the past couple years laps anything that was put around Melo. Take a look at those rosters again.

Mitch was injured most of that season the center tandem was nerlens noel and the corpse of taj gibson and the point guard was elfrid payton and Derrick rose on his last legs. That roster was pretty bad

Also JR Smith actually did win the 6th man of the year not just a candidate and Tyson Chandler had championship experience in 2011 and won DPOY. he played with Amare who was in the league mvp conversation not long before that. What did the team look like when Randle got here?

Since Randle arrived the Knicks have already reached the pinnacle of success that melo accomplished (winning 1 playoff series and 7 playoff games) and it looks like we are on the way back for more this year

When melo finally got forced out we hadn’t made the playoffs in years and the roster was in shambles, if Randle ever leaves he’ll likely be leaving this place in a much better situation than the 17 win team it was when he signed here when KD and Kyrie turned us down and nobody else wanted to come. Now we look like a respectable team

Prime melo was obviously a superstar and a great talent much moreso than Randle especially from a scoring perspective, but what did he actually do for the Knicks, he played a selfish style of ball didn’t make anybody around him better and nobody wanted to play here. Randle has led the team in assists on multiple occasions and is once again doing so this season. Melo’s USG% was much higher he would get the ball to iso and shoot and that was the entire offense. Randle is actually trying to look for open teammates frequently. I’d rather watch the group we have now with Randle posting up any day over the last several years of Carmelo

Last legs of Derrick Rose was the saving grace of that season. They were below .500 before that trade happened, so trying to downplay how good Rose was that season seems disingenuous. Especially when trying to prop up Amare, who was a shell of himself after the Melo trade. Not to mention, RJ was having a good sophomore season, Burks and IQ were great bench pieces as well, Noel filled in nicely when Mitch was out. Randle was great, but that team had more depth than any of those Knicks teams Melo was on.

That pinnacle of success that Randle got to with this Knicks team was in spite of him. He crashed and burned in the playoffs. Not once, but twice. We don’t get to that pinnacle in 12-13 if it wasn’t for Melo. That’s the big difference between what each of them has done. If Melo doesn’t play well, the team went nowhere. Randle has the benefit of having horrible games and being surrounded by talent that can pick him up during those **** games.

The situations each of them were in is based on FO decisions. The FO now is immensely better than what we had during the Melo years. It’s not even close. That had more to do with why no one wanted to come here. Good on Randle for being a part of the turnaround, but as we saw 2 seasons ago, we were on the verge of a downward spiral again until Brunson was signed.

Now, I’m not here to say Melo is without his faults. He was an iso-heavy player and was a lazy defender. But he’s also never had as much talent as this team when he was on the Knicks. The one time in his career where he had this much talent, he was in WCF and close to a chance at the Finals. Again, if prime Knicks Melo was here in place of Randle, we’d be talking about being a contender. Randle doesn’t raise the ceiling the same way.

Melo could have taken a pay cut to try to get more help like how Randle signed a team friendly contract.

This was a 17 win team when KD and Kyrie said no thanks and Randle took on the task. He joined the worst team in the NBA and has been here through the ups and downs of turning this franchise around yet you act like he was KD joining the golden state warriors surrounded by talent

The verge of the downward spiral was due to Nerlens Noel being injured and Kemba Walker and Even Fournier being flop signings that ruined the defense in the starting lineup and thankfully they were able to course correct. But you know, Randle had an off year and all this elite talent around him did absolutely nothing

Even this year we were off to a 2-4 start when Randle was shooting poorly and when he started to have solid games in the last 7 we have gone 6-1

[bronxknicksfan1]

Mitch was injured most of that season the center tandem was nerlens noel and the corpse of taj gibson and the point guard was elfrid payton and Derrick rose on his last legs. That roster was pretty bad

Also JR Smith actually did win the 6th man of the year not just a candidate and Tyson Chandler had championship experience in 2011 and won DPOY. he played with Amare who was in the league mvp conversation not long before that. What did the team look like when Randle got here?

Since Randle arrived the Knicks have already reached the pinnacle of success that melo accomplished (winning 1 playoff series and 7 playoff games) and it looks like we are on the way back for more this year

When melo finally got forced out we hadn’t made the playoffs in years and the roster was in shambles, if Randle ever leaves he’ll likely be leaving this place in a much better situation than the 17 win team it was when he signed here when KD and Kyrie turned us down and nobody else wanted to come. Now we look like a respectable team

Prime melo was obviously a superstar and a great talent much moreso than Randle especially from a scoring perspective, but what did he actually do for the Knicks, he played a selfish style of ball didn’t make anybody around him better and nobody wanted to play here. Randle has led the team in assists on multiple occasions and is once again doing so this season. Melo’s USG% was much higher he would get the ball to iso and shoot and that was the entire offense. Randle is actually trying to look for open teammates frequently. I’d rather watch the group we have now with Randle posting up any day over the last several years of Carmelo

Last legs of Derrick Rose was the saving grace of that season. They were below .500 before that trade happened, so trying to downplay how good Rose was that season seems disingenuous. Especially when trying to prop up Amare, who was a shell of himself after the Melo trade. Not to mention, RJ was having a good sophomore season, Burks and IQ were great bench pieces as well, Noel filled in nicely when Mitch was out. Randle was great, but that team had more depth than any of those Knicks teams Melo was on.

That pinnacle of success that Randle got to with this Knicks team was in spite of him. He crashed and burned in the playoffs. Not once, but twice. We don’t get to that pinnacle in 12-13 if it wasn’t for Melo. That’s the big difference between what each of them has done. If Melo doesn’t play well, the team went nowhere. Randle has the benefit of having horrible games and being surrounded by talent that can pick him up during those **** games.

The situations each of them were in is based on FO decisions. The FO now is immensely better than what we had during the Melo years. It’s not even close. That had more to do with why no one wanted to come here. Good on Randle for being a part of the turnaround, but as we saw 2 seasons ago, we were on the verge of a downward spiral again until Brunson was signed.

Now, I’m not here to say Melo is without his faults. He was an iso-heavy player and was a lazy defender. But he’s also never had as much talent as this team when he was on the Knicks. The one time in his career where he had this much talent, he was in WCF and close to a chance at the Finals. Again, if prime Knicks Melo was here in place of Randle, we’d be talking about being a contender. Randle doesn’t raise the ceiling the same way.

Melo could have taken a pay cut to try to get more help like how Randle signed a team friendly contract.

This was a 17 win team when KD and Kyrie said no thanks and Randle took on the task. He joined the worst team in the NBA and has been here through the ups and downs of turning this franchise around yet you act like he was KD joining the golden state warriors surrounded by talent

The verge of the downward spiral was due to Nerlens Noel being injured and Kemba Walker and Even Fournier being flop signings that ruined the defense in the starting lineup and thankfully they were able to course correct. But you know, Randle had an off year and all this elite talent around him did absolutely nothing

Even this year we were off to a 2-4 start when Randle was shooting poorly and when he started to have solid games in the last 7 we have gone 6-1

Let’s be honest, Randle came here because we had the cap space to bring him in and he was the only option we had available when KD and Kyrie shafted us. Just like Melo came here for the money.

And when did I say the talent was elite during those 2 years? I said they weren’t as bad as you’re making them seem, which they weren’t. That team wasn’t a carry job considering they were a top 3 defense in the league and one of the top bench units in the league.

Do we pretend like Randle’s poor play and antics didn’t contribute to the downward spiral? Absolutely Fournier and Kemba being flops were a big part of it, but Randle being a flop that year didn’t make it better.

As for his play this year, he wasn’t only shooting poorly. He was all-time low level poor shooting. If he was just shooting poorly at that volume, we probably pull off a couple more wins.

With all that said, glad he’s back on track and hope he continues to play well. I’m not the biggest Julius fan, but he’s important to the team’s endeavors.

[WargamesX]

Last legs of Derrick Rose was the saving grace of that season. They were below .500 before that trade happened, so trying to downplay how good Rose was that season seems disingenuous. Especially when trying to prop up Amare, who was a shell of himself after the Melo trade. Not to mention, RJ was having a good sophomore season, Burks and IQ were great bench pieces as well, Noel filled in nicely when Mitch was out. Randle was great, but that team had more depth than any of those Knicks teams Melo was on.

That pinnacle of success that Randle got to with this Knicks team was in spite of him. He crashed and burned in the playoffs. Not once, but twice. We don’t get to that pinnacle in 12-13 if it wasn’t for Melo. That’s the big difference between what each of them has done. If Melo doesn’t play well, the team went nowhere. Randle has the benefit of having horrible games and being surrounded by talent that can pick him up during those **** games.

The situations each of them were in is based on FO decisions. The FO now is immensely better than what we had during the Melo years. It’s not even close. That had more to do with why no one wanted to come here. Good on Randle for being a part of the turnaround, but as we saw 2 seasons ago, we were on the verge of a downward spiral again until Brunson was signed.

Now, I’m not here to say Melo is without his faults. He was an iso-heavy player and was a lazy defender. But he’s also never had as much talent as this team when he was on the Knicks. The one time in his career where he had this much talent, he was in WCF and close to a chance at the Finals. Again, if prime Knicks Melo was here in place of Randle, we’d be talking about being a contender. Randle doesn’t raise the ceiling the same way.

Melo could have taken a pay cut to try to get more help like how Randle signed a team friendly contract.

This was a 17 win team when KD and Kyrie said no thanks and Randle took on the task. He joined the worst team in the NBA and has been here through the ups and downs of turning this franchise around yet you act like he was KD joining the golden state warriors surrounded by talent

The verge of the downward spiral was due to Nerlens Noel being injured and Kemba Walker and Even Fournier being flop signings that ruined the defense in the starting lineup and thankfully they were able to course correct. But you know, Randle had an off year and all this elite talent around him did absolutely nothing

Even this year we were off to a 2-4 start when Randle was shooting poorly and when he started to have solid games in the last 7 we have gone 6-1

Let’s be honest, Randle came here because we had the cap space to bring him in and he was the only option we had available when KD and Kyrie shafted us. Just like Melo came here for the money.

And when did I say the talent was elite during those 2 years? I said they weren’t as bad as you’re making them seem, which they weren’t. That team wasn’t a carry job considering they were a top 3 defense in the league and one of the top bench units in the league.

Do we pretend like Randle’s poor play and antics didn’t contribute to the downward spiral? Absolutely Fournier and Kemba being flops were a big part of it, but Randle being a flop that year didn’t make it better.

As for his play this year, he wasn’t only shooting poorly. He was all-time low level poor shooting. If he was just shooting poorly at that volume, we probably pull off a couple more wins.

With all that said, glad he’s back on track and hope he continues to play well. I’m not the biggest Julius fan, but he’s important to the team’s endeavors.

You say that about the money but it feels like everytime we turn around some star is like "don't send me to the knicks" regardless of the money.

Also this might be the first time I've heard someone defend not just Fournier but Kemba in a while. They were playing horribly on the defensive side when they got here and teams would just hunt them out.

[bronxknicksfan1]

Melo could have taken a pay cut to try to get more help like how Randle signed a team friendly contract.

This was a 17 win team when KD and Kyrie said no thanks and Randle took on the task. He joined the worst team in the NBA and has been here through the ups and downs of turning this franchise around yet you act like he was KD joining the golden state warriors surrounded by talent

The verge of the downward spiral was due to Nerlens Noel being injured and Kemba Walker and Even Fournier being flop signings that ruined the defense in the starting lineup and thankfully they were able to course correct. But you know, Randle had an off year and all this elite talent around him did absolutely nothing

Even this year we were off to a 2-4 start when Randle was shooting poorly and when he started to have solid games in the last 7 we have gone 6-1

Let’s be honest, Randle came here because we had the cap space to bring him in and he was the only option we had available when KD and Kyrie shafted us. Just like Melo came here for the money.

And when did I say the talent was elite during those 2 years? I said they weren’t as bad as you’re making them seem, which they weren’t. That team wasn’t a carry job considering they were a top 3 defense in the league and one of the top bench units in the league.

Do we pretend like Randle’s poor play and antics didn’t contribute to the downward spiral? Absolutely Fournier and Kemba being flops were a big part of it, but Randle being a flop that year didn’t make it better.

As for his play this year, he wasn’t only shooting poorly. He was all-time low level poor shooting. If he was just shooting poorly at that volume, we probably pull off a couple more wins.

With all that said, glad he’s back on track and hope he continues to play well. I’m not the biggest Julius fan, but he’s important to the team’s endeavors.

You say that about the money but it feels like everytime we turn around some star is like "don't send me to the knicks" regardless of the money.

Also this might be the first time I've heard someone defend not just Fournier but Kemba in a while. They were playing horribly on the defensive side when they got here and teams would just hunt them out.

Randle had his rights renounced by the Lakers and then went to NO for 2yr/18 mil. Then he came to us for 3yr/63mil…doesn’t sound like there was much of a market for him. He wasn’t a star at that time. He was AD’s backup who played well when he got starter minutes before he got here.

And where did I defend Fournier and Kemba? Read that again

[dakomish23]

Randle did the same the first year he was here. RJ and Quick were not nearly as good as they are now, and just showed parts of their game, and Mitch was foul prone. On the low the second best player on that 2020’s team was probably Alec Burks. That 2020 team mostly won games because of Randle. Also there is a key point you’re over looking Melo wasn’t trying to pass the ball even as the clock wound down. Even in his bad possession Randle at least considers passing. Melo is taking that shot with 5 guys guarding him.

RJ averaged 17 a game that year. Rose was a 6MOTY candidate. IQ and Burks contributed to a strong bench. Mitch and Noel was a dominant defensive tandem. They were 3rd in DRTG that year. Randle’s offense was a big part of the success that year, but they were carried mostly by their defense keeping them in games. Only roster even comparable to this one with Melo was the 2012-13 team.

And somehow, even with Melo taking shots like that, his offensive impact was higher than Randle’s. This is also backed by advanced stats as well. Not to mention, the offensive talent around Randle the past couple years laps anything that was put around Melo. Take a look at those rosters again.

Mitch was injured most of that season the center tandem was nerlens noel and the corpse of taj gibson and the point guard was elfrid payton and Derrick rose on his last legs. That roster was pretty bad

Also JR Smith actually did win the 6th man of the year not just a candidate and Tyson Chandler had championship experience in 2011 and won DPOY. he played with Amare who was in the league mvp conversation not long before that. What did the team look like when Randle got here?

Since Randle arrived the Knicks have already reached the pinnacle of success that melo accomplished (winning 1 playoff series and 7 playoff games) and it looks like we are on the way back for more this year

When melo finally got forced out we hadn’t made the playoffs in years and the roster was in shambles, if Randle ever leaves he’ll likely be leaving this place in a much better situation than the 17 win team it was when he signed here when KD and Kyrie turned us down and nobody else wanted to come. Now we look like a respectable team

Prime melo was obviously a superstar and a great talent much moreso than Randle especially from a scoring perspective, but what did he actually do for the Knicks, he played a selfish style of ball didn’t make anybody around him better and nobody wanted to play here. Randle has led the team in assists on multiple occasions and is once again doing so this season. Melo’s USG% was much higher he would get the ball to iso and shoot and that was the entire offense. Randle is actually trying to look for open teammates frequently. I’d rather watch the group we have now with Randle posting up any day over the last several years of Carmelo

You’re mentioning Amare’s MVP candidacy from 10-11 as proof Melo played with someone great in 12-13??? A year he played 29 games?????!!!!

The whole world knows Melo had no one even close to the caliber Julius has now. Hell even RJ in 20-21 would have been the 2nd best player on those Knicks teams.

JR 12-13
18.1 PPG 5.3 RPG 2.7 APG 1.3 SPG
42.2% on 15.6 FGA
35.6% on 5.5 3PA
76.2% on 3.9 FTA
48.4% EFG 52.2% TS

RJ 20-21
17.6 PPG 5.8 RPG 3.0 APG 0.7 SPG
44.1% on 14.7 FGA
40.1% on 4.3 3PA
74.6% on 3.8 FTA

The only good player Melo had was Tyson. And Melo was utterly dominant that him, Tyson who could barley scrape 10 PPG and a bunch of inconsistent guards / players on their last legs got us 54 wins. After dragging us from the 11th seed to the 7th seed after Lin / Amare went down the year before. And b/c Tyson went down in 13-14 for a long period of time, we barely missed the playoffs. A year in which Melo was so good, that teams LITERALLY ROLLED OUT RED CARPETS for him to hand him a max deal.

It takes nothing away from Julius’s accomplishments here to operate in the realm of reality. He’s blown away even my own expectations and I had him as a FA target in 2019 while everyone was so sure we were a lock for KD / Irving. He’s the best big since Ewing. But pretending he’s been better than prime Melo here is lunacy

[dakomish23]

Melo with Brunson would have been a great pairing on paper. He always needed a lead. Would need a lot of defense behind it.

And with this RJ and with this Mitch and this IQ plus Grimes DDV Hart Hartenstein. Holy crap we would have bludgeoned teams

[Capn'O]

Melo with Brunson would have been a great pairing on paper. He always needed a lead. Would need a lot of defense behind it.

And with this RJ and with this Mitch and this IQ plus Grimes DDV Hart Hartenstein. Holy crap we would have bludgeoned teams

Yeah, we've got some good depth pieces. This is a better _team_.

This Mitch is a lot like Tyson. Tyson was the master of the OREB tip whereas Mitch secures them himself.

[Jalen Bluntson]

It's time to have the conversation that this thread is ridiculous!

[WargamesX]

It's time to have the conversation that this thread is ridiculous!

Melo vs. Randle needs its own thread

RJ Barrett vs. JR Smith needs another one.

Honestly I rather do that than Randle/RJ sucks thread. It’s arguing who is better.

[nedleeds]

It's time to have the conversation that this thread is ridiculous!

Melo vs. Randle needs its own thread

RJ Barrett vs. JR Smith needs another one.

Honestly I rather do that than Randle/RJ sucks thread. It’s arguing who is better.

Grimes vs. Damyeon Dotson

RJ vs. Landry Fields

IQ vs. Alonzo Trier

Donte vs. Andy Rautins

Josh Hart vs. Cleanthony Early

Jared Jeffries vs. Hartenstein

Randle vs. Fat Drunk Unmotivated Zack Randolph

This team is just polished bums of the past striving for first round revenue and CAA dollars.

[Capn'O]

Happy?

We are not doing a thousand individual comp threads.

[Knicksfan1992]

Melo with Brunson would have been a great pairing on paper. He always needed a lead. Would need a lot of defense behind it.

Still can't get over Dolan vetoing the trade for Kyle Lowry. It may have been putting lipstick on a pig at the time but, having prime Lowry and Chandler with late prime Melo would have made those years exponentially more watchable than they ended up being

[Capn'O]

Melo with Brunson would have been a great pairing on paper. He always needed a lead. Would need a lot of defense behind it.

Still can't get over Dolan vetoing the trade for Kyle Lowry. It may have been putting lipstick on a pig at the time but, having prime Lowry and Chandler with late prime Melo would have made those years exponentially more watchable than they ended up being

Right idea, wrong execution.

Our change in approach to valuing draft capital is a big reason we have a good team now and why that success could be sustainable. But Lowry would have been a good use of resources for the team we had.