Bears 2023 thread V

[biggestbullsfan]

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[TheJordanRule]

I'm so wishy-washy with the Fields situation. Part of me wants to see a new rookie QB come in and light the Chicago sports world on fire. Part of me wants to draft MHJ and one of Fash/Alt, and watch Fields take the next step like Tua and Hurts when they got an elite receiver (Hill/Brown).

Fields with 2 elite WR's (Moore and MHJ) plus a solid line could be really fun to watch. Rookie contract be damned.

If the situation stays as it is, and Justin's pretty good in losses, I think staying with him would require two things: 1) a commitment from Justin to a financially flexible contract that only the best backup QBs get, with additional pay raises in the form of incentives and 2) a commitment from the FO to add MHJ and build a great offensive line. That might include cutting vastly overpaid underperformers like Nate Davis, who we never shoulda signed in the first place. Poles, wtf was that about?

[fleet]

I'm so wishy-washy with the Fields situation. Part of me wants to see a new rookie QB come in and light the Chicago sports world on fire. Part of me wants to draft MHJ and one of Fash/Alt, and watch Fields take the next step like Tua and Hurts when they got an elite receiver (Hill/Brown).

Fields with 2 elite WR's (Moore and MHJ) plus a solid line could be really fun to watch. Rookie contract be damned.

If the situation stays as it is, and Justin's pretty good in losses, I think staying with him would require two things: 1) a commitment from Justin to a financially flexible contract that only the best backup QBs get, with additional pay raises in the form of incentives and 2) a commitment from the FO to add MHJ and build a great offensive line. That might include cutting vastly overpaid underperformers like Nate Davis, who we never shoulda signed in the first place. Poles, wtf was that about?

I think if Justin stays, so do the coaches. Be ready for that. If the coaches are being fired, hard to imagine Justin playing in yet another system. At that point they probably go with a new quarterback and everyone is on the same page/timeline.

[nitetrain8603]

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I will say, this past Sunday, in terms of pure eye test, Justin looked like he had the least amount of in game errors from a (wrong read, passing to a covered guy, throwing a bad ball, holding onto the ball too long, running when he should, extending the pocket, moving into the pocket, being decisive.)

[fleet]

You won't be able to do that once he's off his rookie deal. That's the problem with keeping him.

The money angle is just as much of a reason to move on from Fields. Resets the clock on having to shell out $30-50 million on a QB. And if we have a new coaching staff let the new Head Coach have input on Field's replacement. We are not likely to draft this high again. Fields was decent yesterday. But we can't rely on our QB running 15-20 times a game.

He will get hurt running that much.

Hard to see him lasting a whole season playing like this. He has to be able to to win in other ways than what we saw Sunday. A number of times he took shots that other quarterbacks don’t get up from easily. If anyone can, he can. But I don’t think anyone can.

[1985Bear]

How many of the best WRs in the league were top 5 picks? Or even top 10 for that matter?

Calvin Johnson (#2 overall)
Larry Fitzgerald (#3 overall)
AJ Green (#4 overall)
Julio Jones (#6 overall)

Thanks. I’ve been thinking about this lately. Passing on MHJ if he’s there or better yet trading down with someone who loves him. I don’t think very many of the best currently playing WRs are great value in the top 10 let alone the top 5.

Fix the lines first and get a QB

NFL is getting pretty good at seeing Blue Chip guys that go in top 10: WRs drafted in First round picks 4-12 (no top 3)

Drake London
Garrett Wilson
Jameson Williams
Jamar Chase
Jaylen Waddle
Devonta Smith
Corey Davis - (miss)
Mike Williams
John Ross (miss)
Amari Cooper
Kevin White (miss)
Sammy Watkins
Mike Evans
OBJ
Justin Blackman (Miss)
AJ green
Julio Jones

Marvin Harrison is arguably a better prospect than everyone on this list and I take him over anyone but Caleb.


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[Chi town]

https://www.dabearsblog.com/

What I’ve been saying all season. Flus coaches not to lose instead of to win. The game is so far past him.

Get me a football coach the inspires and innovates. Flus is a nice guy lame duck.

[panthermark]

I think if Justin stays, so do the coaches. Be ready for that. If the coaches are being fired, hard to imagine Justin playing in yet another system. At that point they probably go with a new quarterback and everyone is on the same page/timeline.

I think so as well, which is a problem. It is why early on, I was like F it....if we clean house, EVERYBODY goes. Fields, Flus, Getsy AND Poles. If we are going to start with a clean slate, it will be a clean slate. Not an abandoned 2 year attempt, then reset the clock on the GM.
Fair or not, these folks are tied together.

So maybe we run it back one more year, and everyone's neck is on the line? (Not that I'm too happy about that, I really dislike the Cover 2 without a dominant D-line, and I still can't figure out what the hell Getsy is doing).

[Chi town]

Fields shows me 5 more games like yesterday and I think with the right OC he could be a good QB. Not elite but a guy like Goff… you can win with him.

Misses
- TD throw to Moore. Missed by a bout a foot.
- Out to Moore that was almost a pick because he wanted to see Moore open instead of throwing him open. THIS HAS TO CHANGE OR YOU WONT WIN WITH HIM.
- can’t take that sack in 4th. Check down or throw it away.

Makes
- great throws to Moore for TD, side arm for First, bullet to Mooney on the run in coverage on the money
- much more decisive, quicker through reads, rid of the ball quicker

I still don’t see how Fields can be the guy with this staff and gameplan of him running it 15xs per game. He basically has to be elite in spite of all the awful coaching.

[Chi town]

I think if Justin stays, so do the coaches. Be ready for that. If the coaches are being fired, hard to imagine Justin playing in yet another system. At that point they probably go with a new quarterback and everyone is on the same page/timeline.

I think so as well, which is a problem. It is why early on, I was like F it....if we clean house, EVERYBODY goes. Fields, Flus, Getsy AND Poles. If we are going to start with a clean slate, it will be a clean slate. Not an abandoned 2 year attempt, then reset the clock on the GM.
Fair or not, these folks are tied together.

So maybe we run it back one more year, and everyone's neck is on the line? (Not that I'm too happy about that, I really dislike the Cover 2 without a dominant D-line, and I still can't figure out what the hell Getsy is doing).

Hell. No.

Not running nothing back.

Only way Poles stays is if he has the balls to clear out the coaches, pick the right HC and selects his future QB. Poles should only be thinking about that.

[Chi town]

In other news… Fields trade value has to be a mid 2nd.

Take Caleb.
Take MHJ or Bowers.
2nd round. Van Pran at C.
Get a safety and another corner in the draft.
Sign another big time edge in FA since you have a rookie QB.
Get Harbaugh, Day, Ben Johnson, or Lanning.

[TheJordanRule]

I'm so wishy-washy with the Fields situation. Part of me wants to see a new rookie QB come in and light the Chicago sports world on fire. Part of me wants to draft MHJ and one of Fash/Alt, and watch Fields take the next step like Tua and Hurts when they got an elite receiver (Hill/Brown).

Fields with 2 elite WR's (Moore and MHJ) plus a solid line could be really fun to watch. Rookie contract be damned.

If the situation stays as it is, and Justin's pretty good in losses, I think staying with him would require two things: 1) a commitment from Justin to a financially flexible contract that only the best backup QBs get, with additional pay raises in the form of incentives and 2) a commitment from the FO to add MHJ and build a great offensive line. That might include cutting vastly overpaid underperformers like Nate Davis, who we never shoulda signed in the first place. Poles, wtf was that about?

I think if Justin stays, so do the coaches. Be ready for that. If the coaches are being fired, hard to imagine Justin playing in yet another system. At that point they probably go with a new quarterback and everyone is on the same page/timeline.

Ugh. Implementing a new system every off-season has been a recipe for disaster. Not really a surprise when I think about it lol. But the coaches have spent a considerable portion of the season coming across as a part of the problem, Fleet. What about keeping the system, picking new coaches who have familiarity with the current system and know how to tweak it to play to Justin's strengths? Giving Justin a deal that's in line with what Maye would get? Considering that Justin's upside is way higher than someone like Tua or Trevor Lawrence, and we'd be signing him for much less. I guess what I'm getting at is that while I know it could be uh... a headache to keep Justin quite frankly, it could be worth it.

[panthermark]

I think if Justin stays, so do the coaches. Be ready for that. If the coaches are being fired, hard to imagine Justin playing in yet another system. At that point they probably go with a new quarterback and everyone is on the same page/timeline.

I think so as well, which is a problem. It is why early on, I was like F it....if we clean house, EVERYBODY goes. Fields, Flus, Getsy AND Poles. If we are going to start with a clean slate, it will be a clean slate. Not an abandoned 2 year attempt, then reset the clock on the GM.
Fair or not, these folks are tied together.

So maybe we run it back one more year, and everyone's neck is on the line? (Not that I'm too happy about that, I really dislike the Cover 2 without a dominant D-line, and I still can't figure out what the hell Getsy is doing).

Hell. No.

Not running nothing back.

Only way Poles stays is if he has the balls to clear out the coaches, pick the right HC and selects his future QB. Poles should only be thinking about that.

You are not wrong, but TheJordanRule just pointed out that problem. If we clean house, one would assume next year is another "learning" year as well....probably with a rookie QB (along with a new HC, OC, and DC). What a mess.

[madvillian]

As a Lions fan I thought Fields played well enough to win, but his coaching staff let him down. I'll never understand coaches that turtle up in the 4th milking a lead when in the NFL most competent offenses can strike in under 90 seconds if given the right motivations and defense looks. It's arguable they should have gone for it on both 4th and 1s, and certainly the 2nd one given a 1st down there would pretty much have ended the game.

Bears are in a tough spot, Fields is playing well enough to keep, but it looks like they are going to have the 1st overall pick. I guess that's a good problem if management plays its cards right, but how as a Bears fan could you have that expectation given how poorly they've managed it to this point?

IMO they need to clean house coaching and GM wise.

[biggestbullsfan]

Read on Twitter

This was a bigger issue than the Justin fumble if you ask me. Thats easy a pick 6. Detroit scored on the next play.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Calvin Johnson (#2 overall)
Larry Fitzgerald (#3 overall)
AJ Green (#4 overall)
Julio Jones (#6 overall)

Thanks. I’ve been thinking about this lately. Passing on MHJ if he’s there or better yet trading down with someone who loves him. I don’t think very many of the best currently playing WRs are great value in the top 10 let alone the top 5.

Fix the lines first and get a QB

NFL is getting pretty good at seeing Blue Chip guys that go in top 10: WRs drafted in First round picks 4-12 (no top 3)

Drake London
Garrett Wilson
Jameson Williams
Jamar Chase
Jaylen Waddle
Devonta Smith
Corey Davis - (miss)
Mike Williams
John Ross (miss)
Amari Cooper
Kevin White (miss)
Sammy Watkins
Mike Evans
OBJ
Justin Blackman (Miss)
AJ green
Julio Jones

Marvin Harrison is arguably a better prospect than everyone on this list and I take him over anyone but Caleb.


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Thanks

Now how many of those guys are worth their draft slot looking back?

MHJ does look like a monster.

[panthermark]

As a Lions fan I thought Fields played well enough to win, but his coaching staff let him down. I'll never understand coaches that turtle up in the 4th milking a lead when in the NFL most competent offenses can strike in under 90 seconds if given the right motivations and defense looks. It's arguable they should have gone for it on both 4th and 1s, and certainly the 2nd one given a 1st down there would pretty much have ended the game.

Bears are in a tough spot, Fields is playing well enough to keep, but it looks like they are going to have the 1st overall pick. I guess that's a good problem if management plays its cards right, but how as a Bears fan could you have that expectation given how poorly they've managed it to this point?

IMO they need to clean house coaching and GM wise.

You know, I was pissed when we let Monty walk, and after that game, I am even more pissed.

Poles blew it on Monty, and it is one of those things where I'm not sure if Poles is the guy or not. I am judging Poles as much as I am judging Fields, Flus, and Getsy.

Let's review, currently:
Monty is 3rd in the NFL in rushing yards per game at 82.4.
Monty is 14th in the NFL in total rushing yards at 577 (he has only played 7 games).
Monty is tied with Bijon 9th/10th in yards per attempt at 4.9. That ranking jumps up to 6th/7th if you remove Dobbs, Jackson and Fields, and just look at RB's.
Monty is 4th in the NFL in rushing TD's at 8 (remember, he has only played 7 games).
Monty has the 3rd longest run in the NFL this year at 75 yards.
Monty is 12th in the league in rushing 1st downs (remember, he has only played in 12 games).

We downgraded for no real reason. It isn't that Foreman is bad, and he is a good value, it is just.....why? On a team that needs leadership, pass catching and pass blocking (along with having a nose for tough yards and the endzone)...it seemed like a "get rid of the old regime, I want my guy" move as opposed to a football move.

Similar to Fields, Poles has done some really good things, and some really questionable things. Not sure where he sits.

[panthermark]

Read on Twitter

This was a bigger issue than the Justin fumble if you ask me. Thats easy a pick 6. Detroit scored on the next play.

That was brutal. He needs to make that play if he wants to get paid.

I'll add, look at that play carefully. Looks like #87 was going to be open in the back of the endzone. We are all mad at JJ's drop, but EJ got caught peeking. Lions QB threw to the wrong guy. EJ and JJ need to pull their heads out of their collective butts.

[Almost Retired]

How many of the best WRs in the league were top 5 picks? Or even top 10 for that matter?

Every player is different. Every Draft is different. But the consensus among lots of NFL talent evaluators is that MHJ is the single best player in the draft without regard to position. He probably has the lowest potential bust potential of any player I've seen in years. He is physically gifted and fundamentally almost flawless. And surprisingly modest for a WR with his reputation. I want the Bears to come out of this draft with MHJ. What they do with their other First Round pick is up to debate. But the addition of MHJ gives us a dynamic duo at WR, and it makes whoever the QB is that much better. Tom Brady himself could not have been successful without weapons.

[HearshotKDS]

How many of the best WRs in the league were top 5 picks? Or even top 10 for that matter?

Most drafts dont have a WR picked in the top 5 so unexpectedly most of the top WRs arent top 5 picks. Here's a quick resource for highest drafted WR per draft- https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/the_highest_drafted_receivers_from_the_last_25_nfl_drafts/s1__33848729#slide_20

Quick list of top 5s though:
1996: Keyshawn Johnson - HOF
2000: Peter Warrick - Bust
2003: Charles Rogers - Bust
2004: Larry Fitzgerald - HOF
2005: Braylon Edwards - 1 Probowl season
2007: Megatron - HOF
2011: AJ Green - 7 Probowl seasons
2012: Justin Blackmon - Bust
2014: Sammy Watkins - Long journeyman career
2015: Amari Cooper - 5 Probowl seasons
2017: Corey Davis - Bust
2021: Jamarr Chase - 2 Probowl Seasons

Its not a sure thing as nothing in the draft is, but I would imagine it has to be one of the top hits % of any position in the top 5 - in the last 26 years you have a better chance of getting an AllPro than a bust with your top 5 draft pick WR.