Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread

[doclinkin]

In the long run, I am quite confident that having Kuzma play ~35 mpg, and having a coach who plays him and does nothing to correct his flaws are detrimental to the ability of the Wizards to put together a championship team.

Whereas I say playing Kuzma heavy minutes may actually be the thing that helps us luck into that championship team. Kuzma is so streaky that coaches can't help but play him, remembering the times he will shoot you back into the game -- a game that he shot you out of in the first half. His irrational confidence is contagious. Or at least the irrational part is.

What that means is that you will lose more games where he takes 20+ shots than you will win. But you will still look like you're really trying. He rebounds, he gives effort on defense, he says the right things, his teammates seem to like him, he adds swagger even if it is not backed up by success. To me he is an ideal tank commander. And those losses he earns you are that much more likely to get you a franchise caliber player than if you were trying to build one around the players we already have on the roster.

The future isn't now. And by the time the future starts assembling, Kuzma will be on the skinny end of a declining contract. He will still put up late game heroics and highlight reels, teams and fans will remember things like him scoring double digits in the 4th quarter of the Grizz game, and not the misses earlier in the game. He is a tradeable contract, and a placeholder for what hopefully is a much better player who is not yet on the roster.

[payitforward]

I don't think we got as much value for Porzingis as we could.... I love Tyus Jones, but I liked Morris nearly as much and we made close to a lateral move swapping one for the other, with a return of one 2nd I believe, and that's all we could get for Porzingis? That seems very weak....

We had zero leverage. Porzingis was able to opt out, & he did. Whereupon he was a free agent.

That might have been the end of it. With us getting nothing. Just losing KP.
As a matter of fact, the only reason we got Tyus was b/c it suited Memphis to move him, having gotten Smart from Boston.

[penbeast0]

KP wanted to go to a winner. None of those teams had cap space so they had to work out a deal with the Wizards to give us something. I think we could have leveraged that situation more than we did. And I'd rather have a late 1st and Morris plus whatever we could get for Brogdon than Tyus and a pair of late 2nds though I still would have thought the return a bit light. But again, I'm happy overall with the team's new direction; I just thought the original evaluation was a bit on the sunny side.

[payitforward]

Right. It's always possible to imagine a better deal, but this was the best deal on offer -- otherwise we wouldn't have said yes to it.

As well, nothing is more common than for fans to overvalue their teams' players, & KP is a perfect example given that he joined a team that went 35-47 in '21-22 & was so great that he drove them all the way up to 35-47 in '22-23.

[Kanyewest]

Right. It's always possible to imagine a better deal, but this was the best deal on offer -- otherwise we wouldn't have said yes to it.

As well, nothing is more common than for fans to overvalue their teams' players, & KP is a perfect example given that he joined a team that went 35-47 in '21-22 & was so great that he drove them all the way up to 35-47 in '22-23.

I think it's a poor way to measure the trade by total wins.
There were other moves including

- Trading KCP
- Losing Satoransky
- Even losing Harrell although his production wasn't sustainable (that Wizards team also got off to a hot start)
- The Wizards missing out on the draft relative to other teams
- The Wizards essentially tanking for around the last 10 games of the season.
- Also KP was part of 2021-22 team

[DCZards]

Right. It's always possible to imagine a better deal, but this was the best deal on offer -- otherwise we wouldn't have said yes to it.

As well, nothing is more common than for fans to overvalue their teams' players, & KP is a perfect example given that he joined a team that went 35-47 in '21-22 & was so great that he drove them all the way up to 35-47 in '22-23.

I think it's a poor way to measure the trade by total wins.
There were other moves including

- Trading KCP
- Losing Satoransky
- Even losing Harrell although his production wasn't sustainable (that Wizards team also got off to a hot start)
- The Wizards missing out on the draft relative to other teams
- The Wizards essentially tanking for around the last 10 games of the season.
- Also KP was part of 2021-22 team

We also shouldn't forget that Beal missed 32 games in '22-'23. The record shows that last year's team was much better with Beal than it was without him.

[payitforward]

Right. It's always possible to imagine a better deal, but this was the best deal on offer -- otherwise we wouldn't have said yes to it.

As well, nothing is more common than for fans to overvalue their teams' players, & KP is a perfect example given that he joined a team that went 35-47 in '21-22 & was so great that he drove them all the way up to 35-47 in '22-23.

I think it's a poor way to measure the trade by total wins.
There were other moves including

- Trading KCP
- Losing Satoransky
- Even losing Harrell although his production wasn't sustainable (that Wizards team also got off to a hot start)
- The Wizards missing out on the draft relative to other teams
- The Wizards essentially tanking for around the last 10 games of the season.
- Also KP was part of 2021-22 team

Sure. Fair enough.... Not trying to load any "blame" (or whatever) onto Porzingis, whom I wish well!

[payitforward]

Right. It's always possible to imagine a better deal, but this was the best deal on offer -- otherwise we wouldn't have said yes to it.

As well, nothing is more common than for fans to overvalue their teams' players, & KP is a perfect example given that he joined a team that went 35-47 in '21-22 & was so great that he drove them all the way up to 35-47 in '22-23.

I think it's a poor way to measure the trade by total wins.
There were other moves including

- Trading KCP
- Losing Satoransky
- Even losing Harrell although his production wasn't sustainable (that Wizards team also got off to a hot start)
- The Wizards missing out on the draft relative to other teams
- The Wizards essentially tanking for around the last 10 games of the season.
- Also KP was part of 2021-22 team

We also shouldn't forget that Beal missed 32 games in '22-'23. The record shows that last year's team was much better with Beal than it was without him.

Yes -- we were 24-26 with Brad.
He started last season playing some of his basketball in many years. & we began the season well -- 10-7. Oddly, Brad only led us in scoring in 5 of those first 17 -- & we were 2-3 in those games.

After we started 10-7, we proceeded to lose 12 of the next 13 games.

And... here's how fans think:

Obviously, what that start tells us is that we were actually a terrific team last year. After all, if you simply remove that 1 inexplicable bad stretch, we'd have gone 34-32.

In fact that's not all -- after all, as a result of that one bad stretch, we had nothing to play for at the end of the season, right? Which obviously explains why we went 4-13 to close the year, right? So really, we shouldn't count those games easier when we judge the team.

& from that we learn that in truth we were a 30-19 level team -- i.e. a 50-win team. Which only makes sense, obviously, given that we know how terrific Brad was. & how exceptional KP was -- 1 of the very best bigs in the league. & what makes it all the more obvious is realizing that Kuzma had what everyone calls "a breakout year" -- he was great!

[DCZards]

…and here’s how some other fans think;

If KP was a good player he would have led the Zards to 50 wins irregardless of injuries or the talent around him.

[JAR69]

I was peeved when we traded the rights to Trace Jackson-Davis to Golden State for cash. And not just because I'm an IU homer (which I am). While he is an old rookie (23), and is unlikely to ever be more than a decent bench player, he plays the right way. And he has more skill than people give him credit for. First game with GS tonight: 13 pts, 9 reb, 4 blk in 20 minutes on 55% shooting. Yes, it was a blowout with a top-notch team. But I have a feeling he is going to be well worth the second-to-last pick in the draft. We could use players like him.

[Kanyewest]

…and here’s how some other fans think;

If KP was a good player he would have led the Zards to 50 wins irregardless of injuries or the talent around him.

Boston is now 3-0- it's obviously because KP was so much better than he was in Washington

[payitforward]

…and here’s how some other fans think;

If KP was a good player he would have led the Zards to 50 wins irregardless of injuries or the talent around him.

Nah..., at least not if I'm representative of those "other fans."

But, remember that I was pretty bullish on the team in the run up to that season. & I'll say this much:

if Beal had been able to play, say 2200 minutes, rather than just under 1700,
if Delon had been able to play, say 1800 minutes instead of just under 1200,
if Morris had been able to play all 82 games instead of only 62,
if Jordan Goodwin had played in 82 games instead of 61

with those minutes coming off of our worst players at the 1 & 2...

I would not have been surprised if we'd won 42 or 43 games instead of 35.

[TGW]

I can't remember if there was an offseason grade thread or not, but I'll put mine here.

Beal trade: D-
I thought they did a great job of getting rid of Beal's terrible contract, only to mess things up entirely by trading for PooPoo. Now you're stuck with his contract, poor play, and bad attitude for four stinking years. The players and pick they got are not worth it.

Porzingis trade: C-
They had to salvage what they could when KP asked out. Jones has been a disappointment so far.

Monte Morris trade: B-
I was never a fan of MM. They got something for him. He has done nothing in a Pistons uniform this year.

Draft: A
BC and Vucecic are both NBA players. BCoul is one of the lone bright spots this season. Excellent draft picks.

Resign Kuzma: B+
Originally I was against it, but I'll admit I was wrong here. Kuzma has looked great this year. He's motivated and he's playing hard...and he genuinely looks like he wants to be here. Solid resigning.

Resign Deni: A
Deni has made strides this season. I am happy that they see him as a building block and they locked him into a great contract.

Other moves: B-
They trade Julian Philips for some 2nds, which is fine. Signed Omuruyi, Butler, Gibson. Dropped Cooks.

OVERALL GRADE: C+
Would have been higher if they didn't trade for Poole. That move will go down as one of the worst acquisitions in Wizards history IMO. It's only a matter of time before he tries to sulk his way out of DC.

[nate33]

I can't remember if there was an offseason grade thread or not, but I'll put mine here.

Beal trade: D-
I thought they did a great job of getting rid of Beal's terrible contract, only to mess things up entirely by trading for PooPoo. Now you're stuck with his contract, poor play, and bad attitude for four stinking years. The players and pick they got are not worth it.

Porzingis trade: C-
They had to salvage what they could when KP asked out. Jones has been a disappointment so far.

Monte Morris trade: B-
I was never a fan of MM. They got something for him. He has done nothing in a Pistons uniform this year.

Draft: A
BC and Vucecic are both NBA players. BCoul is one of the lone bright spots this season. Excellent draft picks.

Resign Kuzma: B+
Originally I was against it, but I'll admit I was wrong here. Kuzma has looked great this year. He's motivated and he's playing hard...and he genuinely looks like he wants to be here. Solid resigning.

Resign Deni: A
Deni has made strides this season. I am happy that they see him as a building block and they locked him into a great contract.

Other moves: B-
They trade Julian Philips for some 2nds, which is fine. Signed Omuruyi, Butler, Gibson. Dropped Cooks.

OVERALL GRADE: C+
Would have been higher if they didn't trade for Poole. That move will go down as one of the worst acquisitions in Wizards history IMO. It's only a matter of time before he tries to sulk his way out of DC.

I agree with all of this, though I'm a bit more forgiving of the Poole acquisition. Chris Paul sure as hell wasn't going to play here so he had to be moved. I thought Poole's performance in the 2021-22 season was promising enough to be worth the gamble as a high upside scorer. You have to spend the money on somebody, so at least make it a young guy who was (presumably) still improving.

In hindsight, the acquisition has indeed been terrible. Apparently, Kerr was performing miracles keeping the Golden State defense afloat when Poole was on the floor.

[NatP4]

Agree with all of that as well. The Poole situation just isn’t that big of a deal though. His reputation is what it is at this point. We don’t have to even play him. He can just go away and be dead cap. We acquired a guy with zero value, and it didn’t work out, oh well. Sunk cost, just play Johnny Davis instead.

Although continuing to try and salvage his reputation/play up his value can have a negative effect on the locker room/culture, but it also contributes to a higher draft pick.

[FAH1223]

Agree with all of that as well. The Poole situation just isn’t that big of a deal though. His reputation is what it is at this point. We don’t have to even play him. He can just go away and be dead cap. We acquired a guy with zero value, and it didn’t work out, oh well. Sunk cost, just play Johnny Davis instead.

Although continuing to try and salvage his reputation/play up his value can have a negative effect on the locker room/culture, but it also contributes to a higher draft pick.

Wes has benched him during stretches this season. That should continue.

Poole just has so many bad habits. He’s skilled but he just has no depth of team concepts. Like Nate said, Steve Kerr was performing some miracles to have passable defense out there. Wiggins, Green and Looney really covered up a lot.

[Frichuela]

Agree with all of that as well. The Poole situation just isn’t that big of a deal though. His reputation is what it is at this point. We don’t have to even play him. He can just go away and be dead cap. We acquired a guy with zero value, and it didn’t work out, oh well. Sunk cost, just play Johnny Davis instead.

Although continuing to try and salvage his reputation/play up his value can have a negative effect on the locker room/culture, but it also contributes to a higher draft pick.

Wes has benched him during stretches this season. That should continue.

Poole just has so many bad habits. He’s skilled but he just has no depth of team concepts. Like Nate said, Steve Kerr was performing some miracles to have passable defense out there. Wiggins, Green and Looney really covered up a lot.

Agreed. It seems that Kerr made miracles, particularly defensively. Problem is we don’t have Kerr but nepo baby Wes at the helm.

[payitforward]

I can't remember if there was an offseason grade thread or not, but I'll put mine here.

Beal trade: D-
I thought they did a great job of getting rid of Beal's terrible contract, only to mess things up entirely by trading for PooPoo. Now you're stuck with his contract, poor play, and bad attitude for four stinking years. The players and pick they got are not worth it.

Porzingis trade: C-
They had to salvage what they could when KP asked out. Jones has been a disappointment so far.

Monte Morris trade: B-
I was never a fan of MM. They got something for him. He has done nothing in a Pistons uniform this year.

Draft: A
BC and Vucecic are both NBA players. BCoul is one of the lone bright spots this season. Excellent draft picks.

Resign Kuzma: B+
Originally I was against it, but I'll admit I was wrong here. Kuzma has looked great this year. He's motivated and he's playing hard...and he genuinely looks like he wants to be here. Solid resigning.

Resign Deni: A
Deni has made strides this season. I am happy that they see him as a building block and they locked him into a great contract.

Other moves: B-
They trade Julian Philips for some 2nds, which is fine. Signed Omuruyi, Butler, Gibson. Dropped Cooks.

OVERALL GRADE: C+
Would have been higher if they didn't trade for Poole. That move will go down as one of the worst acquisitions in Wizards history IMO. It's only a matter of time before he tries to sulk his way out of DC.

I agree with all of this, though I'm a bit more forgiving of the Poole acquisition. Chris Paul sure as hell wasn't going to play here so he had to be moved. I thought Poole's performance in the 2021-22 season was promising enough to be worth the gamble as a high upside scorer. You have to spend the money on somebody, so at least make it a young guy who was (presumably) still improving.

In hindsight, the acquisition has indeed been terrible. Apparently, Kerr was performing miracles keeping the Golden State defense afloat when Poole was on the floor.

Makes sense, except I would say, "so far, the acquisition looks terrible." Or, rather, that Poole does!
It's too early to judge the deal as a whole.

In fact, we can't discuss the deal as if it was something entirely separate from the Beal trade.

Did we acquire Chris Paul with the intention of keeping him? Obviously not.
Hence, Will already knew what he was going to do with CP3 before we signed on to do the Phoenix deal. GMs talk to each other many times a weeks -- especially at that time of the year! 10 or 20 deals get proposed for every deal that gets done.

In short, Will knew exactly what he was doing.

Nor do I think he did a bad job -- no, he did an outstanding job! -- given the constraints handed to him! -- He got a lot of stuff plus a player he could move for a fair amount more stuff. That was excellent work.

Brad held all the cards. & taking a chance on Jordan Poole was a good idea. Poole's '21-22 season was quite good. If he were putting up the scoring numbers he did in '21-22, no one here would be talking about his attitude or his defense.

But, he isn't doing that! So we're frustrated. Meanwhile, it might be a good idea to keep in mind that we are in the first few months of a multi-year rebuild. We are supposed to be terrible.

[FAH1223]

Agree with all of that as well. The Poole situation just isn’t that big of a deal though. His reputation is what it is at this point. We don’t have to even play him. He can just go away and be dead cap. We acquired a guy with zero value, and it didn’t work out, oh well. Sunk cost, just play Johnny Davis instead.

Although continuing to try and salvage his reputation/play up his value can have a negative effect on the locker room/culture, but it also contributes to a higher draft pick.

Wes has benched him during stretches this season. That should continue.

Poole just has so many bad habits. He’s skilled but he just has no depth of team concepts. Like Nate said, Steve Kerr was performing some miracles to have passable defense out there. Wiggins, Green and Looney really covered up a lot.

Agreed. It seems that Kerr made miracles, particularly defensively. Problem is we don’t have Kerr but nepo baby Wes at the helm.

But it’s also personnel. Kerr wouldn’t have the tools here due to the roster.

[pcbothwel]

In fact, we can't discuss the deal as if it was something entirely separate from the Beal trade.

Did we acquire Chris Paul with the intention of keeping him? Obviously not.
Hence, Will already knew what he was going to do with CP3 before we signed on to do the Phoenix deal. GMs talk to each other many times a weeks -- especially at that time of the year! 10 or 20 deals get proposed for every deal that gets done.

In short, Will knew exactly what he was doing.

Nor do I think he did a bad job -- no, he did an outstanding job! -- given the constraints handed to him! -- He got a lot of stuff plus a player he could move for a fair amount more stuff. That was excellent work.

Brad held all the cards. & taking a chance on Jordan Poole was a good idea. Poole's '21-22 season was quite good. If he were putting up the scoring numbers he did in '21-22, no one here would be talking about his attitude or his defense.

But, he isn't doing that! So we're frustrated. Meanwhile, it might be a good idea to keep in mind that we are in the first few months of a multi-year rebuild. We are supposed to be terrible.

Sorry PIF...But I dont follow.
1) Beal had a NTC and a huge contract. The list of hurdles/restraints are obvious, but he wanted to go to PHX and we made that happen by getting CP3 and picks.
2) Then, Dawkins had to find a third team that wanted CP3 for some positive asset. Given his ability, age, and contract... Most ANY contender would want CP3.

This means 1 of 2 things is true. 1) CP3 had no market and GSW was the ONLY team willing to trade for him. Not only is that HIGHLY unlikely, but you could argue we would have been better just waiving him. 2) A few teams were interested in CP3, but Dawkins felt as though Poole was the best asset. This is far more concerning as it's clear that Poole doesn't play winning basketball. If you are trying to re-build a culture, then focus on Deni, Kispert, Davis, Bilal, etc. Young Guys that play the right way.

So are you asserting that Dawkins didnt have other offers for CP3, or are you saying that Poole and Co is a better package than what other PG needy teams could have offered? I.e. NOP, Miami, Brooklyn, LAL, LAC, etc.