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Official Trade Thread Part XLV

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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1601 » by payitforward » Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:41 pm

pcbothwel wrote:1) Lets be clear...we traded Beal for CP3 and the PHX picks... we then moved CP3 to GSW for Poole, Rollins, and PBJ. We could of sent CP3 to Miami for Lowry and a small asset and been better off....

As I've already written:

1. We didn't acquire CP3 to keep him; that should be obvious.

2. Hence, without any question, before acquiring CP3, Dawkins had already determined what he was going to get for him. No experienced business person would ever proceed otherwise.

3. There might have been other possible deals to move CP3, & if so we knew about them. OTOH, there's no reason to think that the one you mention was available, & no reason to think we'd have been "better off" if we'd made it (had it been available).

pcbothwel wrote:We would then have max cap space ... to take on a Ben Simmons/Poole/Ball contract outright for good pick....

Dreaming....

pcbothwel wrote:Cap Space could also allow us to front load a Kispert extension, which would make him a bargain (like Deni) when we actually try to compete again.

Good idea -- even after we "take on... Ben Simmons contract?" :)
(It's still perfectly possible now.)
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1602 » by gambitx777 » Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:10 am

TGW wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
TGW wrote:
No.
Well if that's all you got for debate. I'd say yes so I win. Lol.

It's easy to say that's a stupid idea because Poole's TraSh.

But Jordan has shows somethings in the league and is on e a half way reasonable deal and is only 24.

Lonzo ball and a dissapointing Patrick Williams and that protected Portland first. That's reasonable.

Gordon Hayward and like 3 seconds is reasonable.

Those teams have some insensitive to try and win and they aren't well run teams so that's not that out there.

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You live in a fantasy world gambit. But I still got love for ya. :P
Wall was untradable. Westbrook was untradable. Beal was untradable. We got all those deals done. Pool can be moved and don't be surprised if it happens.

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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1603 » by nate33 » Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:53 pm

Gallo doesn't have his own thread so I put this here:

Read on Twitter


I'm not sure this is actually news, though.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1604 » by J-Ves » Wed Nov 22, 2023 5:13 pm

“The Wiz look to move everyone not named Bilal, Deni, and mayyybe Corey at the deadline” should be the headline
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1605 » by gambitx777 » Thu Nov 23, 2023 6:31 am

I'm telling you Poole to the hornets for hayword and like 3 seconds makes a lot of sense for both teams.

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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1606 » by queridiculo » Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:11 am

nate33 wrote:Gallo doesn't have his own thread so I put this here:

Read on Twitter


I'm not sure this is actually news, though.


Gallinari is a disaster out there, really curious what he can bring to a contender, and which team in their right mind would part with assets to add him.

This looks more like buyout waiting to happen.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1607 » by queridiculo » Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:14 am

gambitx777 wrote:I'm telling you Poole to the hornets for hayword and like 3 seconds makes a lot of sense for both teams.

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Yeah, I'm sure the Hornets can't wait to add nearly $100 million to their payroll over the next three seasons after this one...

What does Poole bring to the table that they can't get from Rozier?

Unless Poole turns it around quickly, the Wizards are going to stuck with him for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1608 » by penbeast0 » Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 pm

gambitx777 wrote:Wall was untradable. Westbrook was untradable. Beal was untradable. We got all those deals done. Pool can be moved and don't be surprised if it happens.

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Certainly he is moveable. The question is whether we are willing to give up the assets (Bilal, 1sts, etc.) to move him or if anyone else feels their contract is more toxic than his. I would say that IF this team is committed to rebuilding and if he continues to play the way he has, he's not movable for anything we should be willing to give up.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1609 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:53 pm

queridiculo wrote:Gallinari is a disaster out there, really curious what he can bring to a contender, and which team in their right mind would part with assets to add him.

This looks more like buyout waiting to happen.

He is still an efficient scorer who can stretch the floor from the 4 or 5 spot. I think a veteran team might be able to use him. I agree that his value is pretty low though - somewhere between a late 2nd rounder or a buyout candidate.

I can't really find a trade partner who has a matching expiring contract and a need for a veteran big who can shoot. However, we might be able to extract more value from any trade if we are willing to take back a longer salary. Something like Gallo to New Orleans for Larry Nance Jr. (2 years left $10.3M this year and $11.2M next). New Orleans shaves $4M instantly and gets under the luxtax. We get a competent big who might not be a disaster defensively. (Nance has been disappointing so far this season FWIW.) Could we get them to toss in a high 2nd round pick in the transaction? Or maybe even a late FRP since we'd be saving them over $10M in luxtax payments and luxtax redistribution.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1610 » by gambitx777 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:27 am

penbeast0 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Wall was untradable. Westbrook was untradable. Beal was untradable. We got all those deals done. Pool can be moved and don't be surprised if it happens.

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Certainly he is moveable. The question is whether we are willing to give up the assets (Bilal, 1sts, etc.) to move him or if anyone else feels their contract is more toxic than his. I would say that IF this team is committed to rebuilding and if he continues to play the way he has, he's not movable for anything we should be willing to give up.
We go through this every year! We wouldn't be able to trade wall. We did. We can get a frost for west brook. We did. We ever technically got a first for Beal. Sort of.

I don't think pooles bad enough to have to attach assets to his contract is not that bad comparably. It's only gonna look better on time.

I'm not saying we are gonna get anything good for him but we might get some seconds and an expiring.

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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1611 » by penbeast0 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 12:51 pm

Right now, Poole is ok for the tank. He makes a lot of money so we can easily reach the cap floor, plus he sucks. His contract does limit us in using the Bring Out Your Dead trick to get draft choices though.

Once we move from tank/asset acquisition to building a winner stage, then we can reassess him and start featuring him to move him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1612 » by The Consiglieri » Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:18 am

penbeast0 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Wall was untradable. Westbrook was untradable. Beal was untradable. We got all those deals done. Pool can be moved and don't be surprised if it happens.

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Certainly he is moveable. The question is whether we are willing to give up the assets (Bilal, 1sts, etc.) to move him or if anyone else feels their contract is more toxic than his. I would say that IF this team is committed to rebuilding and if he continues to play the way he has, he's not movable for anything we should be willing to give up.


There's no chance in a million years they would trade any of that to move his contract. For people in denial, which I'm not saying is you btw, this team is going to be HORRIBLE for probably 4-5 years minimum because they handled the tank totally incompetently. We all know this now, and some of us knew this years ago which is why some of us were screaming for a Beal trade for nearly half a decade until his trade value completely collapsed just in time for them to make the worst trade they could have with him as an asset EVER. IF that wasn't bad enough, hopefully everyone knows that the failure to do the deal by '21 or early '22 at the latest destroyed our ability to tank properly for back to back back deep, top end drafts in '21, '22 and '23. Instead, like the totally incompetent organization we are, we not only tanked Beal's value so thoroughly we actually had to get negative trade value to move him, we also managed to screw up the tank so thoroughly that we tanked just in time for the end of a 3 year good run of drafts and the start of another crappy one

As such we have NOTHING to build around right now, other than Bilal, those 2nds, and our own likely top 3-5 firsts in supposedly back to back crappy drafts. Certainly '24 is regarded as the worst class since '20, and as such, if we're honest w/ourselves, we know that this team is gonna send close to half a decade in the high end of the lottery both because of how god awful the current roster is AND because we're tanking in time to draft, at best, complementary players based on current evals of the prospects.

So to my mind, anyway, I have no problem eating the Poole contract until it's either over, or he boosts his own value enough to move him. Honestly what will this team be doing anyway? With this roster, and crap drafts in front of us we're tanking for (or at least one anyway), we are going to be a 15-25 win team from now through '25 at bare minimum, and probably through '26 or '27. Poole's contract is utterly meaningless beyond the possibility that he rebuilds stock and reputation or not. He doesn't just have a month to do this, he has another what, 3.5-4 years? So I could care less one way or the other. We're 1 month of a season into a 4-5 year implosion and rebuild, the rebuild could have been close to over now, but ownership and the scumbags that ran the organization cared more about clearing paychecks than actually doing their job, so a rebuild that could have easily been finished, w/some lottery luck, by '22-'24, is now gonna take at least twice as long to complete. So be it. If you're 75+ years of age, I'd move on and pay attention to other sports, if you're younger, you can put up with the tank, it's already been 43 years of dog ---- basketball anyway, right? What's another 4-5?
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1613 » by payitforward » Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:40 am

True from first word to last; nobody can deny it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1614 » by nate33 » Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:40 am

The Consiglieri wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Wall was untradable. Westbrook was untradable. Beal was untradable. We got all those deals done. Pool can be moved and don't be surprised if it happens.

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Certainly he is moveable. The question is whether we are willing to give up the assets (Bilal, 1sts, etc.) to move him or if anyone else feels their contract is more toxic than his. I would say that IF this team is committed to rebuilding and if he continues to play the way he has, he's not movable for anything we should be willing to give up.


There's no chance in a million years they would trade any of that to move his contract. For people in denial, which I'm not saying is you btw, this team is going to be HORRIBLE for probably 4-5 years minimum because they handled the tank totally incompetently. We all know this now, and some of us knew this years ago which is why some of us were screaming for a Beal trade for nearly half a decade until his trade value completely collapsed just in time for them to make the worst trade they could have with him as an asset EVER. IF that wasn't bad enough, hopefully everyone knows that the failure to do the deal by '21 or early '22 at the latest destroyed our ability to tank properly for back to back back deep, top end drafts in '21, '22 and '23. Instead, like the totally incompetent organization we are, we not only tanked Beal's value so thoroughly we actually had to get negative trade value to move him, we also managed to screw up the tank so thoroughly that we tanked just in time for the end of a 3 year good run of drafts and the start of another crappy one

As such we have NOTHING to build around right now, other than Bilal, those 2nds, and our own likely top 3-5 firsts in supposedly back to back crappy drafts. Certainly '24 is regarded as the worst class since '20, and as such, if we're honest w/ourselves, we know that this team is gonna send close to half a decade in the high end of the lottery both because of how god awful the current roster is AND because we're tanking in time to draft, at best, complementary players based on current evals of the prospects.

So to my mind, anyway, I have no problem eating the Poole contract until it's either over, or he boosts his own value enough to move him. Honestly what will this team be doing anyway? With this roster, and crap drafts in front of us we're tanking for (or at least one anyway), we are going to be a 15-25 win team from now through '25 at bare minimum, and probably through '26 or '27. Poole's contract is utterly meaningless beyond the possibility that he rebuilds stock and reputation or not. He doesn't just have a month to do this, he has another what, 3.5-4 years? So I could care less one way or the other. We're 1 month of a season into a 4-5 year implosion and rebuild, the rebuild could have been close to over now, but ownership and the scumbags that ran the organization cared more about clearing paychecks than actually doing their job, so a rebuild that could have easily been finished, w/some lottery luck, by '22-'24, is now gonna take at least twice as long to complete. So be it. If you're 75+ years of age, I'd move on and pay attention to other sports, if you're younger, you can put up with the tank, it's already been 43 years of dog ---- basketball anyway, right? What's another 4-5?

Yup. We should have blown the team up sometime in the middle of the 2019-20 season after Wall reaggravated his Achilles injury and what was once a 9-month injury became a 2-year hiatus. Beal had just been extended (for the first time) so his value was highest. But even then, I could at least understand how sentimentality impairs wise decisions, so let's say they weren't quite so quick to blow it up then.

When we finally decided to trade Wall on December 2, 2020, it became a no-brainer to start shopping Beal. Beal had just come off an epic second-half-of-the-season run in the 2019-20 season, and he started out 2020-21 red hot, ultimately on his way to an All-NBA season. He had a year-and-a-half left on his contract so his value was still high. Westbrook would have been pissed, but Westbrook was already working back channels to have himself traded to LA, so it wouldn't have changed anything. We'd still have landed Kuzma, KCP and Harrell and the Lakers pick (which we should have used on Quentin Grimes or Cam Thomas instead of trading it for Aaron Holiday).

We could have traded Beal for picks while tanking the rest of that year and finishing with a top 7 pick in the 2021 draft and ended up with one of Cade, Mobley, Barnes, or Wagner instead of Kispert. We would have then tanked real hard in 2021-22 and landed one of Banchero, Chet, Jabari or Murray instead of Davis. Add to that whatever we got in return for the Beal trade and we'd be back on the upswing already - or at least we'd have 4 core pieces in place: Deni, Barnes, Chet and our 2023 1st round pick (Bilal?)
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1615 » by retrobro90 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:50 am

What's the percentage chance Kuz is moved at the deadline? And what would be a fair price?
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1616 » by TGW » Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:06 am

retrobro90 wrote:What's the percentage chance Kuz is moved at the deadline? And what would be a fair price?


Before the season started, I would have said very high. So far this season, I would venture to say he's been a shade under all-star from a production standpoint.

As someone who admittedly hated his game the past two seasons, he has been wonderful this season. A model player on the court and off. He's well liked by his teammates, and has become a solid leader on a bad team that is desperate for one. I would venture to say...and I can't believe I'm saying it...that Kuzma is borderline untouchable? I know I'm speaking for myself, but I wouldn't trade him unless it's a lottery pick at the least.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1617 » by Hibachi_0 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:12 am

retrobro90 wrote:What's the percentage chance Kuz is moved at the deadline? And what would be a fair price?


If he keeps this level and with his new extension being so favorable to the team, I'd say pretty low. However, we are rebuilding so anything is possible (around 20%, maybe?), but it would have to be a really favorable price for the Wizards.

If Okc were to ask, I wouldn't settle for anything less than Jalen Williams.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1618 » by retrobro90 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:22 am

Hibachi_0 wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:What's the percentage chance Kuz is moved at the deadline? And what would be a fair price?


If he keeps this level and with his new extension being so favorable to the team, I'd say pretty low. However, we are rebuilding so anything is possible (around 20%, maybe?), but it would have to be a really favorable price for the Wizards.

If Okc were to ask, I wouldn't settle for anything less than Jalen Williams.


WOW well JDub's off the table but good to know. Kuz has definitely been balling and obviously that's why I'm asking. In any scenario I hope he keeps up his production because he's been fun to watch especially the passing.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1619 » by TGW » Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:39 am

retrobro90 wrote:
Hibachi_0 wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:What's the percentage chance Kuz is moved at the deadline? And what would be a fair price?


If he keeps this level and with his new extension being so favorable to the team, I'd say pretty low. However, we are rebuilding so anything is possible (around 20%, maybe?), but it would have to be a really favorable price for the Wizards.

If Okc were to ask, I wouldn't settle for anything less than Jalen Williams.


WOW well JDub's off the table but good to know. Kuz has definitely been balling and obviously that's why I'm asking. In any scenario I hope he keeps up his production because he's been fun to watch especially the passing.


Yea Williams is a crazy ask, but the offer you made on the trade board wouldn't suffice either, unless we knew exactly where that Houston pick landed. I would also ask for that Clippers pick unprotected as well.
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Re: Official Trade Thread Part XLV 

Post#1620 » by retrobro90 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:44 am

TGW wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:
Hibachi_0 wrote:
If he keeps this level and with his new extension being so favorable to the team, I'd say pretty low. However, we are rebuilding so anything is possible (around 20%, maybe?), but it would have to be a really favorable price for the Wizards.

If Okc were to ask, I wouldn't settle for anything less than Jalen Williams.


WOW well JDub's off the table but good to know. Kuz has definitely been balling and obviously that's why I'm asking. In any scenario I hope he keeps up his production because he's been fun to watch especially the passing.


Yea Williams is a crazy ask, but the offer you made on the trade board wouldn't suffice either, unless we knew exactly where that Houston pick landed. I would also ask for that Clippers pick unprotected as well.


I'll be honest I would do that deal but I could see my draft pick greedy cohorts in either the trade board or the OKC board calling me crazy. Just lived through so many squandered Russ/KD years that I'm ready for them to be more aggressive this time around.

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