Wembanyama. I'm concerned

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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#401 » by The Servant » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:57 pm

rickxdel wrote:
Roger Murdock wrote:The people who believe the NBA draft is rigged are too (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to understand that Ernst and Young runs the draft lotto. Why would a company 100 times the size of the NBA ruin their reputation just to put X player in Y location? And if they are doing it, why is it usually small market teams winning? The smallest market in the NBA won Davis and Zion, two of the biggest prospects in history. The other notable prospects that went #1 overall in recent memory went to Cleveland, San Antonio, and Portland.

It’s literally the most (Please Use More Appropriate Word) conspiracy ever, it makes no sense. Even working backwards from the results and making up evidence to support the results is ridiculous, but the results indicate that it’s clearly NOT rigged, because the results are counter productive to the NBA


Lebron going to hometown Cle
Rose going to hometown team Chicago
Cle getting Kyrie and Andrew Wiggins after losing Lebron
AD going to New Orleans rigth after they lost Chris Paul
Zion going to New Orleans after they lost AD

Too many coincidences for it to not be rigged to some degree, and the argument that it doesnt make sense for them to rig it for small markets does not hold up, it makes sense that the NBA would want to prop up these small markets, and the opportunity to market all their teams with cant-miss prospects since they almost never go there in FA.


Chicago had a 1% chance at D Rose and got him.

Phoenix got the #1 pick in the year they had home town Ayton as a prospect. Lol at people not thinking NBA draft is rigged, the teams that play ball and ship their talent to major markets get rewarded. OKC and Clips, New Orleans and Lakers (twice).
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#402 » by zero rings » Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:59 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
zero rings wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Luka's not a big.

It's been 22 years since a rookie 7 footer was rookie of the year, that was Pau and he was 21. It takes these guys longer to develop, look at Embiids or Jokic rookie years compared to what they are now, or even just compare what Embiid was at Kansas when he was the same age as Vic now.

Chet (21 yrs old) could win rookie of the year, he and Vic are rarities for young bigs. Guards and wings can hit the ground running, bigs are slow cookers compared to them. E


Is this really true? Jokic was damn good as a rookie, he just wasn't getting the minutes and touches due to being a second round pick. He crushes Wemby in both box score and impact metrics.

Embiid was also really good at Kansas, but again, minutes and touches held him back from putting up big counting stats. If he had played his rookie year he would have been better than Wemby, too. These guys were not raw, they just needed a bigger opportunity.

Wemby on the other hand is getting plenty of opportunity and just hasn't looked very good. He's a poor shooter and a poor decision maker, and he lacks the strength to impose his will offensively. Maybe those issues will go away with age and experience, but NBA history suggests they will linger with him in some capacity throughout his career.

Just because he's young doesn't mean we can't evaluate his current play or use it to make predictions.



Jokic was 20 and turned 21 February of his rookie season, Embiid was 22 and had 2 yrs to develop his body (250 at Kansas 280 as a rookie) before he ever stepped foot on an NBA court. He was very good at Kansas and rapidly improving as a player but if you took him at 19 turning 20 and plopped him into the NBA he would have been coming off the bench. We don't know what Jokic would have done at 19-20 either, you can only speculate.


Wemby has a little too much freedom on offense but that seems to be by design which I don't agree with and he's hamstrung by a coach playing another player out of positions. He has warts like everyone else, but he's younger than those other guys were, so it's not a direct comparison. Big guys generally do take longer to develop, almost all the greats prior to Shaq spent 4 yrs at school and even he stayed 3 years, since we switched to the 1 and done era American bigs have seen a massive drop in quality. While the foreign bigs take more time working on their fundamentals, there's a reason they have closed the gap and are now producing better big men.


You can go back and watch footage of Jokic in the Adriatic league and see the same qualities that make him great today. The size, touch, and IQ were all there from the beginning. He didn't need years of NBA experience to figure out how to play.

The point is, I'm not a believer in this linear development curve people assign to young players. Basketball skill is far more innate than most fans want to admit, and skill deficiencies are usually indicative of talent deficiencies.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#403 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:07 pm

zero rings wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
zero rings wrote:
Is this really true? Jokic was damn good as a rookie, he just wasn't getting the minutes and touches due to being a second round pick. He crushes Wemby in both box score and impact metrics.

Embiid was also really good at Kansas, but again, minutes and touches held him back from putting up big counting stats. If he had played his rookie year he would have been better than Wemby, too. These guys were not raw, they just needed a bigger opportunity.

Wemby on the other hand is getting plenty of opportunity and just hasn't looked very good. He's a poor shooter and a poor decision maker, and he lacks the strength to impose his will offensively. Maybe those issues will go away with age and experience, but NBA history suggests they will linger with him in some capacity throughout his career.

Just because he's young doesn't mean we can't evaluate his current play or use it to make predictions.



Jokic was 20 and turned 21 February of his rookie season, Embiid was 22 and had 2 yrs to develop his body (250 at Kansas 280 as a rookie) before he ever stepped foot on an NBA court. He was very good at Kansas and rapidly improving as a player but if you took him at 19 turning 20 and plopped him into the NBA he would have been coming off the bench. We don't know what Jokic would have done at 19-20 either, you can only speculate.


Wemby has a little too much freedom on offense but that seems to be by design which I don't agree with and he's hamstrung by a coach playing another player out of positions. He has warts like everyone else, but he's younger than those other guys were, so it's not a direct comparison. Big guys generally do take longer to develop, almost all the greats prior to Shaq spent 4 yrs at school and even he stayed 3 years, since we switched to the 1 and done era American bigs have seen a massive drop in quality. While the foreign bigs take more time working on their fundamentals, there's a reason they have closed the gap and are now producing better big men.


You can go back and watch footage of Jokic in the Adriatic league and see the same qualities that make him great today. The size, touch, and IQ were all there from the beginning. He didn't need years of NBA experience to figure out how to play.

The point is, I'm not a believer in this linear development curve people assign to young players. Basketball skill is far more innate than most fans want to admit, and skill deficiencies are usually indicative of talent deficiencies.



And yet it took years for him to become a dominant force and all-nba player. There is nobody on this board that looked at rookie Jokic and saw what was coming. These guys take more time than guards and wings, in large part because their bodies need to mature, Embiid had 2 years with NBA strength and conditioning helping him.

You can see where his development is going to be, working on his shot and even more importantly getting stronger. A lot of his issues stem from the fact he's very thin, he gets stood up on drives or stopped dead in his tracks on post ups and takes a shot from our further than he should. What talent deficiency are you even alluding to? He's not a finished product, but compared to other bigs at this age he is sensational as a prospect.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#404 » by Roger Murdock » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:10 pm

The Servant wrote:Chicago had a 1% chance at D Rose and got him.

Phoenix got the #1 pick in the year they had home town Ayton as a prospect. Lol at people not thinking NBA draft is rigged, the teams that play ball and ship their talent to major markets get rewarded. OKC and Clips, New Orleans and Lakers (twice).


A few questions since you have all the answers...

#1) Why would Ernst & Young - a company with 400K employees, 5x the revenue of the NBA, and one of the best reputations in the world, compromise their integrity and run the biggest scandal in the history of organized sports? It would be beyond reckless even if the NBA were paying E&Y hundreds of millions of dollars a year to rig the lotto for them as the juice simply isnt worth the squeeze.

This would be the biggest scam a Big-4 firm has been apart of since Arthur Anderson and Enron, and at least with Enron there was considerably more money on the line and that was more of an 'we got in over our heads and can't get out unless we cover it up' type mistake, whereas this would be a blatant cheat since day 1.


#2) How are they doing it? You can watch the videos of how the lotto is drawn. Its bouncing ping pong balls with thousands of combinations. If there were magnets, or weighted balls, it would be beyond obvious. There are witnesses, video tapes, and I've never once seen an irregularity reported. If they are cheating, they'd 100% need a way to make a combination of bouncing ball randomly get selected in the desired order, while also not getting selected again after those balls are added back in.

#3) Why would 29 owners agree to get screwed every year?

#4) Why would 30 billionaires agree to put up billions of dollars for their team when the integrity of the league will collapse when his scandal breaks? Seems stupid.


It does seem you have it all figured out and that everyone else is wrong, so hoping you can shed some light because you are obviously really smart.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#405 » by zero rings » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:36 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
zero rings wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

Jokic was 20 and turned 21 February of his rookie season, Embiid was 22 and had 2 yrs to develop his body (250 at Kansas 280 as a rookie) before he ever stepped foot on an NBA court. He was very good at Kansas and rapidly improving as a player but if you took him at 19 turning 20 and plopped him into the NBA he would have been coming off the bench. We don't know what Jokic would have done at 19-20 either, you can only speculate.


Wemby has a little too much freedom on offense but that seems to be by design which I don't agree with and he's hamstrung by a coach playing another player out of positions. He has warts like everyone else, but he's younger than those other guys were, so it's not a direct comparison. Big guys generally do take longer to develop, almost all the greats prior to Shaq spent 4 yrs at school and even he stayed 3 years, since we switched to the 1 and done era American bigs have seen a massive drop in quality. While the foreign bigs take more time working on their fundamentals, there's a reason they have closed the gap and are now producing better big men.


You can go back and watch footage of Jokic in the Adriatic league and see the same qualities that make him great today. The size, touch, and IQ were all there from the beginning. He didn't need years of NBA experience to figure out how to play.

The point is, I'm not a believer in this linear development curve people assign to young players. Basketball skill is far more innate than most fans want to admit, and skill deficiencies are usually indicative of talent deficiencies.



And yet it took years for him to become a dominant force and all-nba player. There is nobody on this board that looked at rookie Jokic and saw what was coming. These guys take more time than guards and wings, in large part because their bodies need to mature, Embiid had 2 years with NBA strength and conditioning helping him.

You can see where his development is going to be, working on his shot and even more importantly getting stronger. A lot of his issues stem from the fact he's very thin, he gets stood up on drives or stopped dead in his tracks on post ups and takes a shot from our further than he should. What talent deficiency are you even alluding to? He's not a finished product, but compared to other bigs at this age he is sensational as a prospect.


Jokic was an awesome rookie and an all-nba caliber player by his second year (26.3 PER, 7.3 BPM). If it's true that nobody on this board could see what was coming, then it's an indictment on this board, not on young Jokic.

The deficiencies I'm alluding to are his poor shooting, poor decision making, and his lack of strength. As I said, things like shooting and decision making are more innate than people want to admit, and while he can make marginal improvements it's unlikely those skills will ever be strengths.

As for his physical strength, he can add plenty of muscle and still get pushed around due to his high center of gravity. Porzingis has put on a lot of weight since his rookie year and still lives primarily as a jump shooter. In 5 years' time I expect Wemby to be very much the same. It's one of the limitations of being a lanky 7'4 alien.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#406 » by Bornstellar » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:40 pm

benson13 wrote:
Bornstellar wrote:Wemby with a double double double (22/11) with 4 blocks and 6 steals last night. People need to stop focusing on his shooting % only. Kid is doing special stuff out there and all we hear about is his shooting percentage


His shooting percentages are a concern. Even more, his poor three point shooting is a concern given how the number of threes he's attempting.

I agree to an extent, but he has great form on his shot and every shot he shoots is basically uncontested because of how tall he is. I have faith that in time his percentages will normalize. His form is too good for his shooting to be bad forever
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#407 » by Bornstellar » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:43 pm

Roger Murdock wrote:
The Servant wrote:Chicago had a 1% chance at D Rose and got him.

Phoenix got the #1 pick in the year they had home town Ayton as a prospect. Lol at people not thinking NBA draft is rigged, the teams that play ball and ship their talent to major markets get rewarded. OKC and Clips, New Orleans and Lakers (twice).


A few questions since you have all the answers...

#1) Why would Ernst & Young - a company with 400K employees, 5x the revenue of the NBA, and one of the best reputations in the world, compromise their integrity and run the biggest scandal in the history of organized sports? It would be beyond reckless even if the NBA were paying E&Y hundreds of millions of dollars a year to rig the lotto for them as the juice simply isnt worth the squeeze.

This would be the biggest scam a Big-4 firm has been apart of since Arthur Anderson and Enron, and at least with Enron there was considerably more money on the line and that was more of an 'we got in over our heads and can't get out unless we cover it up' type mistake, whereas this would be a blatant cheat since day 1.


#2) How are they doing it? You can watch the videos of how the lotto is drawn. Its bouncing ping pong balls with thousands of combinations. If there were magnets, or weighted balls, it would be beyond obvious. There are witnesses, video tapes, and I've never once seen an irregularity reported. If they are cheating, they'd 100% need a way to make a combination of bouncing ball randomly get selected in the desired order, while also not getting selected again after those balls are added back in.

#3) Why would 29 owners agree to get screwed every year?

#4) Why would 30 billionaires agree to put up billions of dollars for their team when the integrity of the league will collapse when his scandal breaks? Seems stupid.


It does seem you have it all figured out and that everyone else is wrong, so hoping you can shed some light because you are obviously really smart.


No man, obviously a #1 pick being from the area of the team he was drafted to completely invalidates your entire argument. :roll:


It's weird that people looking at percentages as some kind of GOTCHA. Like, you had a 0.0000000383% chance of even being born or in a place to have this discussion online. That doesn't make it some kind of conspiracy :lol:
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#408 » by tsherkin » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:50 pm

Bornstellar wrote:I agree to an extent, but he has great form on his shot and every shot he shoots is basically uncontested because of how tall he is. I have faith that in time his percentages will normalize. His form is too good for his shooting to be bad forever


He's now above 82% from the line. His middie, long 2 and 3 look brutal right now, but those will almost assuredly normalize as well. It's difficult to envision a dude that tall who gets such clean looks continuing to shoot under 30% on those long 2s, or under 40% on the mid-range shots, for sure.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#409 » by ForeverTFC » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:54 pm

benson13 wrote:
Bornstellar wrote:Wemby with a double double double (22/11) with 4 blocks and 6 steals last night. People need to stop focusing on his shooting % only. Kid is doing special stuff out there and all we hear about is his shooting percentage


His shooting percentages are a concern. Even more, his poor three point shooting is a concern given how the number of threes he's attempting.


But that's manufactured concern. Gradey Dick shooting 27% is a concern for us Raptors fans because his role in the NBA is as a shooter. Wemby was never billed as a shooter and that wasn't his value as a prospect. His shooting % is only a concern because he's taking shots he shouldn't be taking. The expectation that Wemby is this high volume dead-eye shooter is not fair, he's never been that: https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/victor-wembanyama-1.html

He doesn't have to be a high volume off the dribble pull up guy to be the generational player we expect him to be. If he develops that, amazing. But he doesn't need it to meet and exceed expectations. He just needs to be himself: DPOY with a diversified offensive bag and mobility never seen before at his size.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#410 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:55 pm

zero rings wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
zero rings wrote:
You can go back and watch footage of Jokic in the Adriatic league and see the same qualities that make him great today. The size, touch, and IQ were all there from the beginning. He didn't need years of NBA experience to figure out how to play.

The point is, I'm not a believer in this linear development curve people assign to young players. Basketball skill is far more innate than most fans want to admit, and skill deficiencies are usually indicative of talent deficiencies.



And yet it took years for him to become a dominant force and all-nba player. There is nobody on this board that looked at rookie Jokic and saw what was coming. These guys take more time than guards and wings, in large part because their bodies need to mature, Embiid had 2 years with NBA strength and conditioning helping him.

You can see where his development is going to be, working on his shot and even more importantly getting stronger. A lot of his issues stem from the fact he's very thin, he gets stood up on drives or stopped dead in his tracks on post ups and takes a shot from our further than he should. What talent deficiency are you even alluding to? He's not a finished product, but compared to other bigs at this age he is sensational as a prospect.


Jokic was an awesome rookie and an all-nba caliber player by his second year (26.3 PER, 7.3 BPM). If it's true that nobody on this board could see what was coming, then it's an indictment on this board, not on young Jokic.

The deficiencies I'm alluding to are his poor shooting, poor decision making, and his lack of strength. As I said, things like shooting and decision making are more innate than people want to admit, and while he can make marginal improvements it's unlikely those skills will ever be strengths.

As for his physical strength, he can add plenty of muscle and still get pushed around due to his high center of gravity. Porzingis has put on a lot of weight since his rookie year and still lives primarily as a jump shooter. In 5 years' time I expect Wemby to be very much the same. It's one of the limitations of being a lanky 7'4 alien.


The Nuggets themselves didn't see this coming, or else they would have traded Nurkic during his rookie year. Nobody after his rookie year saw 2x MVP and generational player coming, you didn't either :lol:

Poor decision making isn't a talent deficiency, it's just a young player making mistakes, neither is strength. He has to get better as a shooter, which is really the only talent deficiency but his FT% leads me to believe he'll be solid in the future especially if he gets his shot selection more disciplined.



Kristaps had an injury that derailed his career and got top heavy, even with that in mind he was 89th percentile in post ups last year and is in the 100th percentile this year. They aren't the same either, he's longer and better around the basket right now than Kristaps was as a rookie, Kristaps was an awful finisher for how big he was, Victor is shooting almost 20% higher at the rim than Kristaps rookie year.

There's a difference between putting on weight with a body builder trainer like Kristaps did and what Victor and his camp have talked about, their model for him is Giannis. I don't expect Victor to be like Kristaps, he's a better athlete and more fluid, if he ends up putting on mass like Giannis did then a higher center of gravity won't mean too much, much the way it hasn't meant much for Giannis who is almost always significantly taller than the guy guarding him.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#411 » by HotelVitale » Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:59 pm

The Servant wrote:
rickxdel wrote:
Roger Murdock wrote:The people who believe the NBA draft is rigged are too (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to understand that Ernst and Young runs the draft lotto. Why would a company 100 times the size of the NBA ruin their reputation just to put X player in Y location? And if they are doing it, why is it usually small market teams winning? The smallest market in the NBA won Davis and Zion, two of the biggest prospects in history. The other notable prospects that went #1 overall in recent memory went to Cleveland, San Antonio, and Portland.

It’s literally the most (Please Use More Appropriate Word) conspiracy ever, it makes no sense. Even working backwards from the results and making up evidence to support the results is ridiculous, but the results indicate that it’s clearly NOT rigged, because the results are counter productive to the NBA


Lebron going to hometown Cle
Rose going to hometown team Chicago
Cle getting Kyrie and Andrew Wiggins after losing Lebron
AD going to New Orleans rigth after they lost Chris Paul
Zion going to New Orleans after they lost AD

Too many coincidences for it to not be rigged to some degree, and the argument that it doesnt make sense for them to rig it for small markets does not hold up, it makes sense that the NBA would want to prop up these small markets, and the opportunity to market all their teams with cant-miss prospects since they almost never go there in FA.


Chicago had a 1% chance at D Rose and got him.

Phoenix got the #1 pick in the year they had home town Ayton as a prospect. Lol at people not thinking NBA draft is rigged, the teams that play ball and ship their talent to major markets get rewarded. OKC and Clips, New Orleans and Lakers (twice).


Your theory is really that the nba is shipping its best prospects to the worst markets so they can quietly develop them (instead of just sending them to better markets right away when they’re at their most market able), but also sometimes does the opposite to rig things to send medium top prospects to hometown teams? And your evidence for this is two players who went to home town teams?

I’d also have to ask about the many other times neither thing happened—is there always some way to explain why every move ever was part of a conspiracy?
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#412 » by zimpy27 » Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:09 pm

BigGargamel wrote:Wemby is pretty much a lock to be a top 5 player in the nba during his prime. Scott Hastings said it well last night. Wemby doesn’t even know how to play basketball yet. Once he learns he’s going to be absolutely amazing. Pretty much every player who has played against him has said the same thing. I’ll listen to them over fans who overreact because he’s not a 19 year old MVP leading a terrible team to the playoffs.

The absolute only worry is his body holding up. Health permitting, he is going to be an all time great.



That's terrible IMO. Wemby of course knows how to play basketball, he's been playing professional leagues for nearly 4 years.
Imagine how slow at developing he'd need to be to have the amount of attention he's had while playing professionaly leaguse and still not know how to play basketball.

Blocks and steals aren't easy, you don't get them by not knowing how to play basketball. I know it's not an intentional diss but Wemby would absolutely take that as an insult.

What he needs to learn is how to optimise the efficiency of his offense in a team setting (which he could do as soon as next season) and he needs to work on his outside shooting.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#413 » by zero rings » Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:35 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
zero rings wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

And yet it took years for him to become a dominant force and all-nba player. There is nobody on this board that looked at rookie Jokic and saw what was coming. These guys take more time than guards and wings, in large part because their bodies need to mature, Embiid had 2 years with NBA strength and conditioning helping him.

You can see where his development is going to be, working on his shot and even more importantly getting stronger. A lot of his issues stem from the fact he's very thin, he gets stood up on drives or stopped dead in his tracks on post ups and takes a shot from our further than he should. What talent deficiency are you even alluding to? He's not a finished product, but compared to other bigs at this age he is sensational as a prospect.


Jokic was an awesome rookie and an all-nba caliber player by his second year (26.3 PER, 7.3 BPM). If it's true that nobody on this board could see what was coming, then it's an indictment on this board, not on young Jokic.

The deficiencies I'm alluding to are his poor shooting, poor decision making, and his lack of strength. As I said, things like shooting and decision making are more innate than people want to admit, and while he can make marginal improvements it's unlikely those skills will ever be strengths.

As for his physical strength, he can add plenty of muscle and still get pushed around due to his high center of gravity. Porzingis has put on a lot of weight since his rookie year and still lives primarily as a jump shooter. In 5 years' time I expect Wemby to be very much the same. It's one of the limitations of being a lanky 7'4 alien.


The Nuggets themselves didn't see this coming, or else they would have traded Nurkic during his rookie year. Nobody after his rookie year saw 2x MVP and generational player coming, you didn't either :lol:

Poor decision making isn't a talent deficiency, it's just a young player making mistakes, neither is strength. He has to get better as a shooter, which is really the only talent deficiency but his FT% leads me to believe he'll be solid in the future especially if he gets his shot selection more disciplined.



Kristaps had an injury that derailed his career and got top heavy, even with that in mind he was 89th percentile in post ups last year and is in the 100th percentile this year. They aren't the same either, he's longer and better around the basket right now than Kristaps was as a rookie, Kristaps was an awful finisher for how big he was, Victor is shooting almost 20% higher at the rim than Kristaps rookie year.

There's a difference between putting on weight with a body builder trainer like Kristaps did and what Victor and his camp have talked about, their model for him is Giannis. I don't expect Victor to be like Kristaps, he's a better athlete and more fluid, if he ends up putting on mass like Giannis did then a higher center of gravity won't mean too much, much the way it hasn't meant much for Giannis who is almost always significantly taller than the guy guarding him.


I couldn't have predicted that Jokic would be a generational player, but all-NBA and MVP candidate were real possibilities after his rookie year. The Nuggets were only slow to realize it because of internal politics. When a flabby second rounder starts outplaying everyone on the team, dudes are going to catch feelings when he starts taking their minutes and touches. He had to earn his spot more than probably any superstar in history.

Victor may be a better finisher around the rim than KP, but he's going to struggle to get there against a set defense for the same reasons. He's easily knocked off balance and I don't see that changing too much as he adds muscle. You can't compare him to Giannis, who is 5 inches shorter and not nearly as lanky.

Again, this isn't to say he can't be a great player. But there are serious red flags with his offensive game, and some of the more bullish pre-draft predictions are looking silly right now. Woj actually said he was going to be the best defensive and offensive player in the world by year 3. That's not happening.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#414 » by tsherkin » Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:50 pm

zero rings wrote: You can't compare him to Giannis, who is 5 inches shorter and not nearly as lanky.


He was considerably lighter and quite lanky when he was drafted. He added a pile of muscle over the first chunk of his career.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#415 » by Bornstellar » Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:52 pm

Yeah it's definitely inaccurate to say Wemby doesn't know how to play basketball. It's more accurate to say he doesn't quite know how to properly utilize his skillset against NBA players yet. But he's 19. His body isn't been fully developed yet
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#416 » by zimpy27 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:00 am

tsherkin wrote:
Bornstellar wrote:I agree to an extent, but he has great form on his shot and every shot he shoots is basically uncontested because of how tall he is. I have faith that in time his percentages will normalize. His form is too good for his shooting to be bad forever


He's now above 82% from the line. His middie, long 2 and 3 look brutal right now, but those will almost assuredly normalize as well. It's difficult to envision a dude that tall who gets such clean looks continuing to shoot under 30% on those long 2s, or under 40% on the mid-range shots, for sure.


Porzingis is a better shooter than Wemby, he also struggles from 3 though. I think it's tough to be that tall with giant hands and be very accurate from distance. For one, a shooting arc is a parabola and the taller you shoot from the more that tiny perturbations reduce accuracy.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#417 » by Bornstellar » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:01 am

Just saw this on Reddit:

In the 192 minutes Wemby has spent with Tre Jones on the floor, he averages 26ppg/36 on 58%TS. That's also 33.2p/100 for those curious.
This is actually an astoundingly strong blend of volume and efficiency for a rookie.

What's the other factor holding Wemby back? He's playing PF next to Cs clogging the paint and taking away some mismatch opportunities.
Wemby has only gotten 124 minutes at Center this season, but when he does? He averages a whopping 33ppg/36 on 62%TS. That's with or without Tre Jones at PG even.


Put this man at his actual position and give him a PG and it's game over
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#418 » by zimpy27 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:05 am

Bornstellar wrote:Just saw this on Reddit:

In the 192 minutes Wemby has spent with Tre Jones on the floor, he averages 26ppg/36 on 58%TS. That's also 33.2p/100 for those curious.
This is actually an astoundingly strong blend of volume and efficiency for a rookie.

What's the other factor holding Wemby back? He's playing PF next to Cs clogging the paint and taking away some mismatch opportunities.
Wemby has only gotten 124 minutes at Center this season, but when he does? He averages a whopping 33ppg/36 on 62%TS. That's with or without Tre Jones at PG even.


Put this man at his actual position and give him a PG and it's game over


Yep, if his offensive game was more like Gobert then he'd be 60% TS at 20-25ppg. He should be playing C.

I know some SPurs fans disagree but I think Wemby is purposely being held back so they can tank but also so he can get stronger before tackling the paint. But he is truly best served as a C.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#419 » by LAvision » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:12 am

Bornstellar wrote:Yeah it's definitely inaccurate to say Wemby doesn't know how to play basketball. It's more accurate to say he doesn't quite know how to properly utilize his skillset against NBA players yet. But he's 19. His body isn't been fully developed yet

When they say he doesn’t know how to play basketball, they are talking about picking his spots, not his skill, which is clearly there. Once he learns where to attack certain teams at different area, he’s going to be a force.

I’ve noticed he’s been shooting less 3 pts lately and getting more mid range game in, which I like. You can see the progress. His play making is very underrated, he’s clever.
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Re: Wembanyama. I'm concerned 

Post#420 » by azcatz11 » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:14 am

Bornstellar wrote:Just saw this on Reddit:

In the 192 minutes Wemby has spent with Tre Jones on the floor, he averages 26ppg/36 on 58%TS. That's also 33.2p/100 for those curious.
This is actually an astoundingly strong blend of volume and efficiency for a rookie.

What's the other factor holding Wemby back? He's playing PF next to Cs clogging the paint and taking away some mismatch opportunities.
Wemby has only gotten 124 minutes at Center this season, but when he does? He averages a whopping 33ppg/36 on 62%TS. That's with or without Tre Jones at PG even.


Put this man at his actual position and give him a PG and it's game over


I've been saying this for months now
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