Masai’s plan moving forward

[Madvillainy2004]

To me the evaluation point is not about the roster, although it plays a part, it is about how we want to play and whether it works.

People here seem to call it "Project 6'9." Toronto is playing with size and defense over a high functioning offensive minded team. While I do see some improvements from Darko on assisted baskets and passes, the team is by no means an offensive minded team. He wants a large number of deflections per game (30+). He does also want a high number of assists (30+) meaning we dial back the isolation attempts.

24th in isolation scoring this season compared 13th last season. That's a frequency of 5.9% compared to 7.7% last year. That impacts the scoring to a degree because we are not working mismatches and scoring as easily now as we did previously. I also think that as a result of the lack of ISO ball we are reducing second chance points.

Last year we were top 3 in second chance points. This year we are tenth. It's a huge stylistic difference and curious because we have guys that are really good at it like Chris Boucher, Achuiwa, Poeltl. In the tight games, those second chance points make a difference.

The bigger concern to me is defense. Toronto is 19th in giving up points in the paint, 18th in second chance points. If we can't stop teams from scoring with our size, what good is it doing playing these unconventional line-ups.

Well I think it's clear that Darko isn't coaching this team to play to their strengths because he just doesn't run that kind of offense. They have a clear idea for what they want to offense to look like going forward. Where it gets dicey is we don't have a pick so maybe playing them to their strengths would be beneficial in the short term. It goes back to the idea of the team just not picking a direction. Were trying to win but also learning a system that does not emphasize our best players strengths for a long term goal.

[Mark_83]

Whoever is responsible for trading our 1st rounder for Poeltl's bird rights and only put top 6 protections on the pick should be fired immediately. That pick should have been lottery protected for at least the first year. You can argue "weak draft" all you want, but there are players available who could help this team (not to mention the extra wins last year very likely cost us Cason Wallace). The last supposedly weak draft was 2020 and that year still produced Anthony Edwards, Haliburton, Lamelo, Maxey, Vassell, Bane, McDaniels. Weak draft is often just a synonym for harder to evaluate.

There is no such thing as a weak draft. Every draft produces productive players. And a FO like ours is more likely than others to find that productive talent (drafting and player development has been our strength for Masai's entire tenure). The fact that we keep trading away picks for veteran role players is maddening. Just play to your strengths. How **** hard is that to do?

Exactly. Drafting is the easiest way to add talent without giving up anything. Now our only avenue this offseason is to trade or sign a free agent. This team desperately needs a scoring guard who can shoot and this draft is looking deep in that commodity (Collier, Dillingham, Boswell, Walter).

It was so dumb to trade a pick with only top 6 protections for the first 3 years for the right to pay Poeltl, who was a upcoming free agent. Even the Mavericks had top 10 protections for the first 3 years of the Porzingis trade (a better player), which allowed them to tank and keep their pick last year. I can't prove it but I just have this feeling Bobby Webster is the one who thought this was a good idea.

[Prestige]

1- Wait until the trade deadline
2- Demand 5 FRPs and a young player for either Siakam or OG
3- Fail to trade either
4- Hold press conference saying we should believe in our city, the team is evaluating, and better deals will be available in the summer
5- Supermax Siakam and watch OG walk
6- Hold Training Camp press conference saying he believes in internal growth

[MiamiSPX]

1- Wait until the trade deadline
2- Demand 5 FRPs and a young player for either Siakam or OG
3- Fail to trade either
4- Hold press conference saying we should believe in our city, the team is evaluating, and better deals will be available in the summer
5- Supermax Siakam and watch OG walk
6- Hold Training Camp press conference saying he believes in internal growth

Zero chance that Siakam gets a supermax. He won't be eligible. So many players putting up video game numbers and Siakam's numbers are down across the board, on a losing team. With this season almost a quarter in, it's fair to say he has a 0% chance of being named All-NBA.

[Tom_Foolery]

1- Wait until the trade deadline
2- Demand 5 FRPs and a young player for either Siakam or OG
3- Fail to trade either
4- Hold press conference saying we should believe in our city, the team is evaluating, and better deals will be available in the summer
5- Supermax Siakam and watch OG walk
6- Hold Training Camp press conference saying he believes in internal growth

Zero chance that Siakam gets a supermax. He won't be eligible. So many players putting up video game numbers and Siakam's numbers are down across the board, on a losing team. With this season almost a quarter in, it's fair to say he has a 0% chance of being named All-NBA.

Didn't we say something similar about Fred this offseason?

[MiamiSPX]

1- Wait until the trade deadline
2- Demand 5 FRPs and a young player for either Siakam or OG
3- Fail to trade either
4- Hold press conference saying we should believe in our city, the team is evaluating, and better deals will be available in the summer
5- Supermax Siakam and watch OG walk
6- Hold Training Camp press conference saying he believes in internal growth

Zero chance that Siakam gets a supermax. He won't be eligible. So many players putting up video game numbers and Siakam's numbers are down across the board, on a losing team. With this season almost a quarter in, it's fair to say he has a 0% chance of being named All-NBA.

Didn't we say something similar about Fred this offseason?

Huh? FVV didn't get a supermax. I was only nitpicking the quoted poster's prediction that Siakam will get a supermax. He will not be eligible for one unless he makes All-NBA this season, which is impossible now.

[StopitLeo]

1- Wait until the trade deadline
2- Demand 5 FRPs and a young player for either Siakam or OG
3- Fail to trade either
4- Hold press conference saying we should believe in our city, the team is evaluating, and better deals will be available in the summer
5- Supermax Siakam and watch OG walk
6- Hold Training Camp press conference saying he believes in internal growth

Zero chance that Siakam gets a supermax. He won't be eligible. So many players putting up video game numbers and Siakam's numbers are down across the board, on a losing team. With this season almost a quarter in, it's fair to say he has a 0% chance of being named All-NBA.

Didn't we say something similar about Fred this offseason?

Fred is irrelevant. The point is that Pascal needs to make All-NBA to qualify for the supermax and he isn't likely to do that. He'll still get the max though.

[Tom_Foolery]

Zero chance that Siakam gets a supermax. He won't be eligible. So many players putting up video game numbers and Siakam's numbers are down across the board, on a losing team. With this season almost a quarter in, it's fair to say he has a 0% chance of being named All-NBA.

Didn't we say something similar about Fred this offseason?

Huh? FVV didn't get a supermax. I was only nitpicking the quoted poster's prediction that Siakam will get a supermax. He will not be eligible for one unless he makes All-NBA this season, which is impossible now.

It's not the same, but it a similar situation were we have a player, his numbers are down, doesn't look like an all-star, but will probably still get paid out the a**.

He probably won't get a super-max, but he's still gonna get absurd offers.

[MiamiSPX]

Didn't we say something similar about Fred this offseason?

Huh? FVV didn't get a supermax. I was only nitpicking the quoted poster's prediction that Siakam will get a supermax. He will not be eligible for one unless he makes All-NBA this season, which is impossible now.

It's not the same, but it a similar situation were we have a player, his numbers are down, doesn't look like an all-star, but will probably still get paid out the a**.

He probably won't get a super-max, but he's still gonna get absurd offers.

Oh absolutely. His regular max is still 5/250, which is absurd for us and our situation. I could still see someone giving it to him. All it takes is one team out there.

I've said all along that one of OG or Siakam is going to walk for nothing. I certainly hope I am wrong though.

[Chandan]

we warned ya since 2021 this was going to happen

[Kingsway_fan]

Hiring stiffs like Temple shows me Bobby and Masai are totally out of touch these days... as far as talent evaluation and acquisition goes ... hopefully trade deadline offers them a chance to redeem themselves.... the Raptors have over $25m on the roster considered "past expired" Deadwood by most GMs....

No sooner do they squander picks to unload stiffs like Birch, do they add to their Deadwood.

Temple is a pure locker room presence and culture move. If the 15th man on the team is counted on to play, the team is doomed no matter what

And Thad, McDaniels, Otto, ... also vet "presence?"... at what point does talent and contribution matter?

[bballsparkin]

Exactly. Drafting is the easiest way to add talent without giving up anything. Now our only avenue this offseason is to trade or sign a free agent. This team desperately needs a scoring guard who can shoot and this draft is looking deep in that commodity (Collier, Dillingham, Boswell, Walter).

It was so dumb to trade a pick with only top 6 protections for the first 3 years for the right to pay Poeltl, who was a upcoming free agent. Even the Mavericks had top 10 protections for the first 3 years of the Porzingis trade (a better player), which allowed them to tank and keep their pick last year. I can't prove it but I just have this feeling Bobby Webster is the one who thought this was a good idea.

I think the logic was that the Spurs wanted 2 FRPs for Jakob. And the Raptors got around that by offering 1 FRP with lower protection. Thus, hoping to convey the pick this year in a draft they were not necessarily enamoured with. And then having control of all future firsts by this off-season. But, then they fumbled the Play-in. Lost NN and FVV. Picked a rookie who is struggling big time. And looks like a team that could miss the play-in.

[bballsparkin]

Future plans should involve consideration of the team as higher quality entertainment. There's been no style, no flavour, no intrigue. The past few seasons were empty calorie content. Games so boring fans are willing to become data analysts to find meaning. That's been the real problem.

My friends who are less devoted than us have mostly tuned out. Ratings must be low.

[StopitLeo]

Whoever is responsible for trading our 1st rounder for Poeltl's bird rights and only put top 6 protections on the pick should be fired immediately. That pick should have been lottery protected for at least the first year. You can argue "weak draft" all you want, but there are players available who could help this team (not to mention the extra wins last year very likely cost us Cason Wallace). The last supposedly weak draft was 2020 and that year still produced Anthony Edwards, Haliburton, Lamelo, Maxey, Vassell, Bane, McDaniels. Weak draft is often just a synonym for harder to evaluate.

Any reasonable person would have to think that Toronto tried for heavier protections and negotiations led to top 6. Considering we've needed a legit starting C for years, Poeltl was a very good option (free agency options were lacklustre). The Spurs knew this and had leverage. I don't think lottery protection would have been realistic as a starting offer. I think the best you could have hoped is top 10 and negotiate from there. Think of the pick as having drafted a C that is ready to play today.

The way things are looking the team may very well keep the pick. Wouldn't that be a coup?

[bballsparkin]

Any reasonable person would have to think that Toronto tried for heavier protections and negotiations led to top 6. Considering we've needed a legit starting C for years, Poeltl was a very good option (free agency options were lacklustre). The Spurs knew this and had leverage. I don't think lottery protection would have been realistic as a starting offer. I think the best you could have hoped is top 10 and negotiate from there. Think of the pick as having drafted a C that is ready to play today.

The way things are looking the team may very well keep the pick. Wouldn't that be a coup?

Agreed with your rationale. Although I'm not a fan of the trade. Looking at tankathon the odds of the Raptors keeping the pick are low. They have a 11.7% chance currently of winning a top 4 pick. Getting to the 6 worst club would entail passing one of Charlotte, Portland, Chicago or Utah. Detroit, Washington and SA are looking like the three worst and Memphis should bounce back.

Edit: and even if they did get to 6th worse they still have a good chance of losing the pick which would be horrible optics.

[tdotrep2]

I'm just confused why people are confused. This is what you wanted, "stay competitive". You can't magically snap your fingers and make a 50 win team, by buying jak, and playing around what you think could get you wins in the immediate this is the result. This is what a lot of you wanted. So just... enjoy the ride

[Tor_Raps]

Exactly. Drafting is the easiest way to add talent without giving up anything. Now our only avenue this offseason is to trade or sign a free agent. This team desperately needs a scoring guard who can shoot and this draft is looking deep in that commodity (Collier, Dillingham, Boswell, Walter).

It was so dumb to trade a pick with only top 6 protections for the first 3 years for the right to pay Poeltl, who was a upcoming free agent. Even the Mavericks had top 10 protections for the first 3 years of the Porzingis trade (a better player), which allowed them to tank and keep their pick last year. I can't prove it but I just have this feeling Bobby Webster is the one who thought this was a good idea.

I think the logic was that the Spurs wanted 2 FRPs for Jakob. And the Raptors got around that by offering 1 FRP with lower protection. Thus, hoping to convey the pick this year in a draft they were not necessarily enamoured with. And then having control of all future firsts by this off-season. But, then they fumbled the Play-in. Lost NN and FVV. Picked a rookie who is struggling big time. And looks like a team that could miss the play-in.

Someone tell me how the Spurs got a lightly protected 1st for an expiring Poeltl and yet we couldn't get anything close for an expiring Lowry and Fred who were both MUCH better players. It was utter stupidity from our management to make such a shortsighted trade.

They have continually failed this franchise since winning a title in 2019. Will always love them for that but they are being paid top dollar to remain at that standard...

[ItsDanger]

Exactly. Drafting is the easiest way to add talent without giving up anything. Now our only avenue this offseason is to trade or sign a free agent. This team desperately needs a scoring guard who can shoot and this draft is looking deep in that commodity (Collier, Dillingham, Boswell, Walter).

It was so dumb to trade a pick with only top 6 protections for the first 3 years for the right to pay Poeltl, who was a upcoming free agent. Even the Mavericks had top 10 protections for the first 3 years of the Porzingis trade (a better player), which allowed them to tank and keep their pick last year. I can't prove it but I just have this feeling Bobby Webster is the one who thought this was a good idea.

I think the logic was that the Spurs wanted 2 FRPs for Jakob. And the Raptors got around that by offering 1 FRP with lower protection. Thus, hoping to convey the pick this year in a draft they were not necessarily enamoured with. And then having control of all future firsts by this off-season. But, then they fumbled the Play-in. Lost NN and FVV. Picked a rookie who is struggling big time. And looks like a team that could miss the play-in.

They originally wanted 2 1sts. No takers, so they lowered the price. Boston was the other interested team, but they didn't include a 1st in their offer. Highly probable other teams weren't interested. Safe to say, they overpaid in terms of draft capital given to them.

[Rapsfan07]

Huh? FVV didn't get a supermax. I was only nitpicking the quoted poster's prediction that Siakam will get a supermax. He will not be eligible for one unless he makes All-NBA this season, which is impossible now.

It's not the same, but it a similar situation were we have a player, his numbers are down, doesn't look like an all-star, but will probably still get paid out the a**.

He probably won't get a super-max, but he's still gonna get absurd offers.

Oh absolutely. His regular max is still 5/250, which is absurd for us and our situation. I could still see someone giving it to him. All it takes is one team out there.

I've said all along that one of OG or Siakam is going to walk for nothing. I certainly hope I am wrong though.

Yeah, I think one of them is walking for free and I think it will be OG.

Siakam has at least SOME incentive to stay. He's going to get the max from someone and we're the only one that can give him the Bird max. OG on the other hand is less likely to get the max, which aside from Bird raises, is the same sort of offer he could get from some other, better team.

So if I had to guess how this plays out - teams will max offers for OG but it won't be the 3 FRPs Raptors brass was seeking. Raptors will decline all offers and OG will walk for nothing.

[bballsparkin]

Someone tell me how the Spurs got a lightly protected 1st for an expiring Poeltl and yet we couldn't get anything close for an expiring Lowry and Fred who were both MUCH better players. It was utter stupidity from our management to make such a shortsighted trade.

They have continually failed this franchise since winning a title in 2019. Will always love them for that but they are being paid top dollar to remain at that standard...

Due to the contracts they signed I'm thinking. The Heat knew Lowry wanted to retire in South Beach with his pal Jimmy and were willing to pay him. And we saw the contract Fred got. Why give up much for FVV when you have to fork out $40M+ per season? That contract is bonkers. Lowry and Fred were rentals. Whereas, Jakob's contract is more affordable and the Raptors intended to keep him. Agreed that the trade was shortsighted though. Especially considering the fit of Jakob with our 3 best players. Due to lack of spacing.